So Sup Forums, how do we fix the Isekai genre?

So Sup Forums, how do we fix the Isekai genre?

It can be done well and has in a lot of cases
the only problem is making sure it doesn't fall into the easy traps of being wish fulfillment or too edgy

We let go of it.

Buy Re:Zero BDs

3 Americans clap for this post.

That's the opposite of helping. That's just encouraging "I don't know how to write, so I'll just throw in gore and suffering and maybe people won't notice" bullshit.

Bought volume 1 and 2 and it was clearly way better than expected

shit was fucked since neverending story

anybody else have the feeling Shield hero will be the next SAO after it gets an anime?

Rely less on video game analogues for character development, basically stop ripping off Dragon Quest and MMO's. It will remove this trend of giving characters the equivalent of Broken RPG mechanics which is a big problem with current Isekai.

Get rid of harems. Nobody has done it too well in recent years if ever. If you're going to have a romance just lean into it, nobody likes a beta MC.

Give a sense of adventure. If you're not doing comedy there should be some clear goal in mind. Grimgar did this well despite failing at a lot of other things. People wanted to survive and the story conveyed that well enough.

Really Isekai would improve if Japan was less reliant on copy-pasting the same formula in such quantity.

I thought that when it started getting popular

lets just hope that it and MT doesn't get an anime.

Just erase everything made in the past decade and it's decent again.

don't make the MC's so OP

I mean they don't have to be a beta that fails at everything but at least put some balance to the series.

what are you reading Sup Forums?

>Read LN of baka-tsuki or other website

>Top 10 are isekai with HP/MP stats, levels, Water = Heal magic, VR headsets and medieval setting.

Nobody cant fix

Edge is fun though.

Why do you guys hate RPG elements?

They can work as long as you have an MC that doesn't gain bullshit game breaker abilities.

Akuyaku Tensei Dakedo Doushite Kou Natta
An Otome Game’s Burikko Villainess Turned into a Magic Otaku
Ascendance of a Bookwormc
At the Northern Fort
Atelier Tanaka
Breaking Off the Engagement… Just as Intended
Chongfei Manual
Common Sense of a Duke’s Daughter
Demon Girl ~Tale of a Lax Demon~
Drop!!　～A Tale of the Fragrance Princess～
Dungeon Defense
Evil God Average
Extraordinary – Ordinary – Soap
Gekitotsu no Hexennacht
Half-Dragon Slave Life
Haunted Duke’s Daughter
Hokuou Kizoku to Moukinzuma no Yukiguni Karigurashi
I Reincarnated into an Otome Game as a Villainess With Only Destruction Flags
It Seems That I’ve Slipped Into a Different World. Also, My Gender Has Changed
I’ll Live My Second Life!
Kamigoroshi no Eiyuu to Nanatsu no Seiyaku
Kenkyo, Kenjitsu o Motto ni Ikite Orimasu
Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear
Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?
Kuro no Hiera Glaphicos
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon
Majo no Tabitabi
Me and My Beloved Cat (Girlfriend)
My Sister the Heroine, and I the Villainess
Nidome no Yuusha
Regarding the Story of My Wife, Medusa
Ring Ring
Sansheng, Wangchuan Wu Shangbonus
Scapegoat Sister Vs Second Prince
She Professed Herself The Pupil Of The Wiseman(LN)
Tensei Oujo wa Kyou mo Hata o Tatakioru
Tensei Shoujo no Rirekisho
The Bathroom Goddess
The Duke’s Daughter Is the Knight Captain’s (62) Young Wife
The Girl Who Ate a Death God
The Girl Who Bore the Flame Ring
The Guild’s Cheat Receptionist
The Lazy King
The Noble Girl Living in Debt
The Reincarnated Vampire Wants an Afternoon Nap
Uchi no Musume no Tame naraba, Ore wa Moshikashitara Maou mo Taoseru kamo Shirenai
Yobidasa Reta Satsuriku-sha
Youjo Senki
Yume Nikki
Yuusha Yori Saikyouna Kuro Kishi
Zero Kara Hajimeru Mahou no Sho
Uchimusume(WN)

>tfw it's never about a NEET getting ported to a sci-fi world with really advanced tech and being generally out of place with 0 skills just trying to get by

kill me senpai

Why does isekai even have to be a thing?

Why can't we have a proper albeit generic fantasy world instead of having contemporary teenagers thrown into a generic fantasy world? And if we must have Japanese high school students, can we please have an anime about a group of Japanese high school students playing a tabletop RPG? The MMO setting can be cool but it's been done enough.

Because almost every fucking isekai has it.

RPG analogues because the character played video games? Fine.
Actual stats? Fuck that.

-Stop using RPG/Video Game mechanics in it.
-World fucking build.
-Don't make the MC fucking all powerful, making them average and real.
-If you are going to use traveled to another world idea, make sure its plot relevant.
-No harems unless actually needed, and give the harem characters if you have them.
-Character fucking build.
-Give the MC a reason to stay and do things in the world.
-Get rid of cliche things.

I don't know anything else.

Why all those novels isekai are obsessed with videogames?

I can only imagine the writer knows very little about the world or human relationships and need just imagine things around their videogame experiences.

Imagine if game of thrones or happy potter have isekai ideas, this is so lame.

You know what I want an otome reincarnation with a "can't escape fate" theme.

MC tries to avoid the rivals actions that would fuck her over only for it to lead to it anyway. Most of this genre has it that the MC just only needs to not be a 1-dimensional bitch to escape the death flag. I say go full Greek tragedy about it.

Pic related. Sometimes simplifying things can be good.

>Stop using RPG/Video Game mechanics in it.
>World fucking build.
>Don't make the MC fucking all powerful, making them average and real.
>If you are going to use traveled to another world idea, make sure its plot relevant.
>-No harems unless actually needed, and give the harem characters if you have them.
>Character fucking build.
>Give the MC a reason to stay and do things in the world.

This.

>Get rid of cliche things.

Sadly impossible.

>Why does isekai even have to be a thing?
-fish out of water scenario
-applying modern world logic/experience/tech to another world
-Young MC already mature from the get-go
-mundane going into an extraordinary scenario
>relate more to a character from our world but still want the world-building elements of the other world

Just read Sorry Onii-sama or something if you want that.

This exist, it´s called Goblin Slayer but Sup Forums dont like GS and prefer Re:Zero

>Why do you guys hate RPG elements?
I don't but they've gotten too pervalent in the genre. And their implementation is too lazy and sacrifices world building and relies solely on the reader to fill in the gaps/holes.

Take for instance Beet the Vandel Buster (not Isekai but bear with me). It has an adventurer's guild and level up system but the Guild is competent and well organized, and Your Buster Rating isn't a reflection of your actual skill just proof of the contracts you've confirmed with the guild. So when the MC shows up with a rating of 11 in the first volume and beats a Vandel (basically sentient golems who reek havek on humans) it's not because he's Broken or has some cheat ability, it's because he really has a rating of 21 and hasn't bothered to reconcile his his kills for a couple of years.

In your standard Isekai the adventurer's guild is retarded and sends people to their death all the time for no logical reason because "muh quests" and levels are some hard limit to how good a person is. Let fantasy be fantasy and don't gunk it up with character levels.

Nowadays you get an MC who starts off at level 1 and spends the first chunk of the series grinding to a reasonable level. But it's not always interesting to see that and watching the same story of exploiting low level mobs for cheap xp gain gets boring fast, especially when I do that myself.

>Burikko
muh nigga
can't find much else who likes that series though

It's rarely handled as well as something like log horizon to expand on its lore, instead it's used to kill off potential world building with convenient explanations.

>Uchi musume

I became a diabetic after reading that.

Oh boy, yet another "let's bitch about things that will never change" thread! Can't wait for the same posters to post the same things again!

I can see why but eh, it's fun enough and the translation restarting gives me hope, want to see more magical ISIS shenanigans. Camille is the cutest thing ever too.

>relate more to a character from our world but still want the world-building elements of the other world

Honestly I'd rather characters who aren't much like me but with whom I can still relate to on some level.

Hold on, technically Goblin Slayer has a harem, but he doesn't care about it.

Sup Forums does care about as it maxs nearly every thread. In 2-3 years when the anime comes out the comfy fantasy general, /tg/, and Goblincide parts of Goblin Slayer threads are going to vanish with shit posting and waifuposting over Guild Girl, Priestess, High Elf Archer, and Cow Girl which is going to be sad since the threads were comfy as fuck,

Also we get Monk getting raped get up'ed by 100.

>Give the MC a reason to stay and do things in the world.

nah being in that world is reason enough "I just want to be normu!" characters always piss me off

though I agree that there needs to be a reason for the MC to do something. Don't want the MC just fucking about.

GS is entertaining, but does it really have good world building?

I only know as much as the current manga releases allow, I haven't read the LNs.

How's Grimgar?

>Don't want the MC just fucking about.

God forbid MC has motivations and makes goals for himself.

>Sadly impossible.
anything done in awhile counts as cliche

nothing made ever was entirely free of cliches (except maybe the first stories ever told, but those most likely are lost in history).

What a cute loli. Is the LN worth reading?

I count that as "reasons for the MC to do something"

Most Isekai MC's don't even have that.

Only watch if you can handle SoL with a mixed cast instead of just cute girls. Some people think it's a little dull or slow.

It's been fixed sine 2012.

If you hate Kirito's Gary Stu all powerful bullshit in SAO, Grimgar is nice because the characters start off as total newbies and struggle. There's noticeable development in their fighting skills.

Art is 10/10.

Pacing is kind of bad, there's only a few noteworthy pieces of plot development in the first 10 episodes. Lots of insert songs seem to drag it out.

Last two episodes are legitimately good.

Waifus and Husbandos.

I don't regret watching it.

I'd be okay with MT becoming more popular if it meant faster translations. Rifujin needs to just let an editor do everything for the LN release and start on the sequel already

If you like a cute girl faffing about and kidnapping little girls to do her bidding, it's not exactly super plot driven.

Had potential to be good but him turning into Momon just to fullfill his adventurer boner and having no real threats since he was already OP as fuck was boring.

That sounds perfect, I'll give it a go.

>MT

mushoku tensei?

Combat and powerlevels were never the focus of bonerlord, a spooky skeleton bumbling his way through everything is the main appeal.

Oh I fucking hate Kirito. I want something more Log Horizon-esque, only slightly less gamey.

Anyway, Grimgar looks interesting from what I've seen so far. Has this strange Dragon's Dogma vibe, with all the goblins and whatnot.

Because it belongs in the video games, shit like that is in video games because it's the mechanics of the game, it just looks stupid in a story.

It belong on my fantasy games not the stories I read or watch.

Exceptions are if the characters are actually playing a game like SAO (still shit for other reasons) or log horizon as it makes sense for the world to have game mechanics because it is one. These ones with characters who get sent to fantasy world's that have shit like stat sheets and leveling up is stupid as fuck and are obvious wish fulfillment. Some refrences are fine but that's it.


It's fine in konosuba I should add, but that's because it's a comedy so it works.

Wish fulfillment and self inserting, anything else is a bullshit excuse by those who do this.

Yeah. Dunno why they are talking about it not being popular though, it's entry level as fuck and was constantly way up on the charts when the WN was still ongoing

>Why can't we have a proper albeit generic fantasy world instead of having contemporary teenagers thrown into a generic fantasy world?

Because the MMO genre is easy. You dont have to explain the fact that the main character constantly get to fight things and get stronger though it.

In a normal fantasy world ala Tolkien there would not be any monsters outside of monster country and the main character would have to be sent out on an organized quest there. Which is a pain to write up and limits what the author can do with the characters.

But if monsters just spawn in the forests and the characters can get new powers by slaying them then the author dont need to think so hard of how the MC will become over powered or where to find enemies.

You also get clearly defined power levels. You can compare stats.

This, cliches exist for a reason, they are fine if the story is well done, it's when the story is bad and they are overused taht it becomes a problem.

Because going to other worlds as a trope is fucking ancient and won't disappear just because you get your panties in a twist whenever it gets used.

Ask Sup Forums.
They're specialist in this kind of "ultimate solutions".

Zeighart's story is the sequel. It has chapters translated already.

Adapt mushoku tensei

>Atelier Tanaka
Does the protagonist stop getting his hopes up only to be brutally disappointed?
I liked the setting but it got really annoying after some time

Shildbro is example of good premise deteorating into normal typical harem generic stuff.

I am sure after a while Goblin Slayer will also be about Goblin traveling in company of loli harem and enjoying life.

Jobless Obliege is just a side story and is already over I'm pretty sure. Only a couple chapters are translated, but yeah

>Stop using RPG/Video Game mechanics in it.
I disagree
>World fucking build.
There are Isekai stories that get this right
>Don't make the MC fucking all powerful, making them average and real.
OP protagonists can be fun
>If you are going to use traveled to another world idea, make sure its plot relevant.
Kind of agree with that one
>No harems unless actually needed, and give the harem characters if you have them.
I like harems where the character actually is in a relationship with all of them
>Character fucking build.
Yes
>Give the MC a reason to stay
No
>and do things in the world.
Yes


>Get rid of cliche things.
Impossible

It is in HN

Need more "progressor" anime adaptations, akin to Maou. Where MC not just reborns in fantasy world and goes adventuring and leveling up - but instead introduces modern world technologies, social order etc.

It has good characters and world building. But the actual plot is terrible. I almost rage quit at book 4 due to how dumb the entire setup was. Did drop it for real at book 7. (?) Why does Ainz get super angry that adventurers invade his place when it was he who secretly invited them there? Also he is playing an adventurer himself so he should have understanding of people doing adventurer stuff. Its like something a 12 year old came up with to be maximum edgy.

>>If you are going to use traveled to another world idea, make sure its plot relevant.
>Kind of agree with that one
Disagree. The real reason "world travel" premise happens, is empathy/self insert. And thats a valid and good reason, because writing authentic and crafted "fantasy" or medieval MC is not an easy task - mostly most shit writers dont even bother to make sure all their characters dont act, think, and look like cosplaying moden world archtypes.

And if you can write believable "other world" human, then theres no reason to and you can just use modern MC in fantasy setting.

And if you cant write non generic original fantasy or even find purpose for fantasy setting other than it being cool and "magic" - then might as well use game universe.

Modern MC + Game Universe is more familar to people, believable and lower critiqued, than badly written real fantasy in real fantasy setting where anyone with brink of intellegence would disassamble author apart with army of Frodos.

Tanaka stays Tanaka, which is to say he sees bitches and whores and goes the other way.

That's one of the spin offs.
After he posted the last chapter of mushoku the author said he intends to take it easy for a while and maybe only write a couple short stories and redundancy chapters with no real schedule, but would eventually write the "real" story that mushoku was only intended to be a prequel to that kind of got out of hand when he just kept on writing and establishing more and more plot points and characters. That was before it got picked up by a publisher as LN though, at this point I fully expect him to just not do the sequel in WN format at all anymore and wait until the original series' LN is completely out

The "real" story is length written (before MT even) - its called Mahou Sensei Negima and it already got own sequel too.

sik mayme

I think Tower of God did it right. On one hand the entire tower is pretty much an MMO. But the rest of the world is not. People climb the tower to get wishes from God and in turn god will create challenges and monsters for the climbers to overcome. But people who climb mostly come from normal lives (both modern and primitive) and have never seen a monster before they enter the tower.

There is never a question of where all the mooks and bosses come from because they are created from thin air by the "gods". And there is no question of motivation: You can get whatever you want if you are successful enough.

But there are no stats or classes or levels or measurable "powerlevels". You do get better "contracts" by climbing higher though. And they allow you to ignore the laws of physics more.

Make MC an american so he can introduce FREEDOM to isekai

exactly, it's isekai with gore and suffering. it might be below average, but it's still better than most of the crap this genre has birthed

>But the actual plot is terrible.
Could elaborate on that point?
>Did drop it for real at book 7.
>he didn't read the greatness that was vol.9
user come on now, you have to read Emperor JUST and SPLAT.
Also on vol.7,the guys going in weren't adventurers they were workers, pretty much adventurers without rules that would do anything for the money. Ainz also warned them when he was Momom that it was really fucking stupid to rush into a tomb that could still inhabited by dangerous monsters. Them going into the Tomb wasn't Ainz idea it was Demi's and Ainz going full REEE over his friend's was nothing new, though it was kind of stupid.
But I still enjoy the volume because it felt kind of like a horror movie in a way, thought in the end it really was one of the weakest volumes.

Bonus points for getting rekt and going mad over pseudo-ideals shattering.

what do you count as isekai? personally I don't think stuff like sao, log horizon, or overlord that has blatant mmorpg mechanics everywhere counts as isekai. that's really just game shows.

we don't

Reverse isekai.
Hataraku Maousama was pretty good.
Any other good reverse isekai?

The RPG elements are rarely implemented in the setting in a sensible and cohesive manner, and the worldbuilding suffers as a result.

Most of the time, they only seem to exist to compensate for the writer's inability to demonstrate character strengths and growth without tying these things to arbitrary numbers. It's lazy as fuck.

More revenge in opinion.

Oh, another speedreader-kun.
1) Whole conspiracy was Demiurge idea
2) Ainz was calm and only gone full REEEE after workers tried to lie to him about meeting his guildmates
3) They were not adventurers, they were "workers": basically murderhobos.
They also would kill any squatters if they found them in tomb, even humans, to avoid sharing tomb treasures.
Ainz in Momon disguise gasped for straws to find some JUST in their motives and found none: it was all for money.

No, because that's just urban fantasy at that point and we get enough of that from stuff like index.

My panties only get in a twist when you so harshly rebuke me like that.

Translated more pic related type of novels.

yeah but going from relying on one gimmick to relying on a different gimmick isn't exactly the best of improvements from my point of view

What was the book name where frozen neanderthal is revived in modern days and turned out they were taller, stronger, smarter and kinder than than their survived cro-magnons competitors.
They just needed more food and fucking starved during Ice Age.
What's this genre called: timetravel in runes is what?

>no self-inserting
>no wish fulfillment
>no power fantasies
>plenty of dank soul memes
done

I think we need some kind of GoT\Dark Souls\Berserk mix with even more sporadic death trims through characters.
This will call to really-really good world building and plot thickness though: if MC candidates are dropping like flies before the reader - he'll have some other things to look up to.

>Oh, another speedreader-kun.
>1) Whole conspiracy was Demiurge idea
And sanctioned by Ainz.
>2) Ainz was calm and only gone full REEEE after workers tried to lie to him about meeting his guildmates.
Pretty sure they were tortured long before that happened. Even so, a white lie from one guy deserves torture and death of dozens?
>3) They were not adventurers, they were "workers": basically murderhobos.
So basically every RPG player ever. And the only reason it was not sanctioned by the guild was because it was an empire expedition into the kingdoms area. The guild in the kingdom would have explored it just as thorough if they had known of it. (And taken a cut in between.)
>They also would kill any squatters if they found them in tomb, even humans, to avoid sharing tomb treasures.
They did not just kill them though. They kept many alive and tortured them... Throughout the book. For no good reason. And they made sure that everyone got as painful and frightening death as possible. This despite the fact that no one would learn of how they died. So its not like its a warning example or anything.
>Ainz in Momon disguise gasped for straws to find some JUST in their motives and found none: it was all for money.
But this is not much different than what Momonga have been doing. Or every adventurer in every game ever.

Make everything like Overlord.

>dangerous shadow darkness MC face
>everything according to keikaku
>OMG HE SUCH A RUSER

You're mixing up to many things to even start to describe.
>RTFM
>Gob rape with boots on in Chapter1
>Vanilla nips riot
>Rape retreats along the lines
Where is your god now?

I don't understand, this shit is just teenager fanfiction. Everyone can write isekai. What stopping you, Sup Forums?

>So basically every RPG player ever.
>Or every adventurer in every game ever.
>comparing games to reality
It doesn't work like that user.

I want low fantasy so that skill with a sword and proper armor mean something. Dark Souls memes optional.

>Because the MMO genre is easy. You dont have to explain the fact that the main character constantly get to fight things and get stronger though it.

Goblin Slayer and Grimgar do an okay job with this. The goblins are evil and do evil shit, but they're also a sort of society in their own right and they're "trying to make a living" in one way or another. In that sense they're not unlike bandits, and in the Roman times roads and the wilderness were quite hazardous because of bandits and barbarians.

You don't need to have "go out into the forest and kill X boars" level of MMORPG backdrop to provide the MC with action.

But yes, the MMORPG backdrop is easy. That's the real reason why so many LNs and LN adaptations are lackluster. It's like manga, but the requirement for skill with art is dropped so the barrier to entry is even lower for new authors.