Remember her?

Remember her?

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I remember that I'm meant to deito Lucifer.

I wish I didn't

I remember that the last two games in her series were fucking dog shit.

Wait, so was ep1-4 beatrice a totally different character all along? Don't mean this in a meme kind of sense. I mean that she was literally a different character as intended by Ryu07.

After all Virgilia gave the red truth that Beatrice could never be revived.

That's Kanon with a wing.

You can't fool me.

>her

Yep.

One of the writers died, and the remaining main one went full retard.

No. She's the same character, she was pretending the whole time for retarded reasons.

>all those weebs with >her portraits

Endless kek's

>read all the episodes
>still don't know what happened
what happened

BEATROICE

Ep1-4 is Beatrice Yasu, after she throw herself into the sea, dies, is revived in purgatory.

At the end of ep IV she's basically erased from existence and a new Beatrice is born using the same template.

Dumb shit.

Alot of dumb shit.

You can distill it down to 'They were all dead the whole time. The murderer was all of them killing eachother over the gold. All the different murder's were fake stories Beatrice made up. It's debatable what truly happens at the end, but I guess Ange resurrects everyone. But really probably nothing happened at the end, because it's a clusterfuck

DESIRE

Posting best Seacat.

Man, the manga is so much better than Ep. VII and VIII in portraying Yasu issues.

The Beatrice in EP6 is basically a child that Battler forced to act like the old Beatrice that died in EP5 so he could pretend he revived her. He did the exact same fucked up thing as Kinzo, and the series treats it as a triumphant moment. It gets even more fucked up when you realize he gets angry at her for having the same personality as his old crush Shannon and demands she becomes more like Beatrice.

...

Her revival plot in EP 6 was dumb and unsatisfying, but I absolutely loved 7 and the magic ending in 8.

>she

>Get this fucking trash out of here

Everyone was already dead. Beatrice's plan failed immediately before Battler got there amd they killed eachother over the gold anyway.

The events of the game are written by her as possible explanations to what happened. There's a lot of complex meta-narrative bullshit to go along with it, but the TL;DR is that Battler fell in love with her anyway and when she jumped in the water to drown herself with the big-ass rock he leapt in after her, lost consciousness, and washed ashore with amnesia to symbolise Battler passing on with her - even if his body lived.

I never really thought of it like that.

Although I basically had no sympathy for the entire Ushiromiya family after the Facist gold reveal. Like, fuck all of you, your fortune is built on Fascist blunder. Really that gold probably came from Auschwitz. Fuck them all, greedy war-profiteering cunts.

>not believing in magic

...

>forcing this meme

Fuck the author for making it that you either believe in the thing that caused so much suffering 1-4, or they were all dead in the first place.

Pretty sure Meta-world exist, tho'.

Or at least it does depending how you see the relationship between the real world and the meta.

I didn't hate the kids for it. It's not their fault the family fortune was blood money, and afaik none of them even found out in the real timeline.

Their parents however were shits for not seeming even a little bit hesitant over the fact their cash probably came from genocide.

Yeah the author basically said the Meta exists. Wish it had never existed in the first place, but there we go.

All it adds to that other anons explanation is 'Then Ange resurrects everyone at the end'

I wonder if we ever really knew any of them. The pieces that Battler created were made in a certain way, to appeal to Ange. Maybe Beatrice did something similar with her pieces?

Either way, everyone apart from the grand-kids are irredeemable cunts.

>Their parents however were shits for not seeming even a little bit hesitant over the fact their cash probably came from genocide.
You think anyone who find 10 tons of gold and his thigh on money would give too much of a fuck it came from a war it happened 40 years ago and they ad no part with?

>germans brought their jew gold to japan
top bullshit
wut the fuck man

If they were a decent person? Yes.

I'm not saying they had to give it all to fucking charity and publicly flagellate themselves for inheriting it, but good fuck any signs of mild shame or even introspection is to be expected of a decent person when they find out everything they own was gained through one of the biggest war crimes in history.

>caring about the jews
It's fucking gold who cares

Do you think it would be anyone first thought in that situation anyway?

The Italians were carrying it, and they were trying to use a route that would divert suspicion, but their ship hit a mine and their captain died around the base Kinzo was stationed. The Italians and Japanese couldn't co-operate (or Kinzo instigated) and everyone but Kinzo died, leaving the gold to him.

am i the only one who loves ep 1-4 but hates ep 5-8

Yeah. It was maybe the most retarded thing in the game. That and making Beatrice a Fascist. Seeing her say how 'the motherland has fallen' and 'we must never surrender to the traitors!' was fucking werid. Same as how Kinzo was saying how the 'Brave Italians never surrender, but fought on!' Like, Ryukishi07, they were fascists, not good people here. I wonder how up to date his history was

That and they all act like anyone in possession of the gold would be rich. Having that gold just makes you an automatic war criminal, it's the definition of a cursed chalice.

Breaking news, all the adults in the family were fucking assholes. Some more than others, sure.

Yep.

Loved the Phoenix Wright style Battler-Beatrice battles, loved the Chapter 3 ruse cruise, the beautiful OST.

Then 5-8 just shits over everything.

>Kyrie Eleison
>Lord, have mercy.
>Kyrie
>The Lord

I think Kyrie was actually God, who in all His magnanimousness decided to put the unclean heathens from the Ushiromiya family into a test for redemption. Kyrie used His messengers, Maria and Yasu (it's a reference to Iesu - i.e.our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ) to deliver His message and to put forth the test. However, the Ushiromiyas, being a representation of all the sins, refused to listen to our Lord's merciful message, and thus, sadly, they had to be punished, and Rokkenjima became another Sodom and Gomorrah.

Not all of them were a lost case. There were 2 good sheep who deserved salvation. One of them was Eva. However, she had fallen prey of many sins, and thus, our Lord left her without her Adam. In addition, she had to atone for her sinful ways for the rest of her life. The other survivor was Battler, which would be a representation of Job. At the end, after seeing how the Lord - who all gives - took everything away from him, and accepted it, he was rewarded with a new life. And thus, Battler died, and Tohya was born. Together with his new partner, they write Christian stories to spread the word of our Lord.

As for Ange, she was viral marketing for hamburgers, nothing to see there.

This, my dear friends, is the truth behind Rokkenjima.

>Like, Ryukishi07, they were fascists, not good people here. I wonder how up to date his history was
Are you retarded?

Portraying historical situation doesn't mean supporting them.

>higurashi while interesting is ruined for me by seeing soldiers get outwitted by children but ignoring that it's quite an interesting story
>umineko is polluted from the last 3 episodes

I haven't read rose gun yet but I'm assuming his writing is proceeding downhill, I expect the new story that's connected with higurashi is going to be horrible too.

fuck ryukishi07 for making me read through the good parts of umineko and getting my hopes up for the last 3 episodes.

Japan has fucking weird opinions on WW2.

They believe the Nazis were monsters but also admire many of their traits, they seem to accept they themselves did some bad shit as well but try to downplay it often, and as far as I can tell they think the Italians literally dindu nuffin and were only allying with Germany to maintain their sovereignty - putting them on the same level as France when it surrendered.

Do you think for one nanosecond that Mossad wouldn't but on your dick the second you tried to do anything with that gold?

Probably.

>I have this gold
>how can I use this gold?
>wait where did it come from?
>Oh.

I just felt like he genuinely had no idea what his characters were portraying. I think he was confusing the Japanese 'fight until the last!' brave patriotism thing with fascism. Like I doubt he ever intended us to think that the gold came from the Holocaust, he probably intended the audience to think it came from the defeated Italian government.

Shit I didn't mean to reply to

I think this was mentioned eariler, but the co-writer died whilst episode 5 was being written. So 6-8 was basically what he could throw together. Personally I feel he should have just cancelled the project, he clearly couldn't finish it well.

>I haven't read rose gun yet but I'm assuming his writing is proceeding downhill, I expect the new story that's connected with higurashi is going to be horrible too.

Higanbana is pretty good.
Then again, it's pretty different from his usual works, short stories with dark themes focused on bulling/social commentary.


Umineko felt like he bit more than he could chew.

I've tutored in Japanese high schools for a decade now and I can say with 100% certainty it's because their History lessons are flawed.

Besides the standard (and expected) focus on the Pacific theatre, their coverage of the Western front focuses primarily on the Soviets vs the Germans with a mix of France/Poland getting invaded amd British plus American involvement later on.

There's virtually no mention of the blitz, or of the African theatre, or what went on in Eastern Europe pre operation Barbosa beyond the initial invasion of Poland. I'm pretty sure most of my students think Italy only fought in Western Europe, and no jack shit about their reasons or political situation at the time.

So in the end, who/what the fuck was Ikuko?

>They believe the Nazis were monsters but also admire many of their traits, they seem to accept they themselves did some bad shit as well but try to downplay it often, and as far as I can tell they think the Italians literally dindu nuffin and were only allying with Germany to maintain their sovereignty - putting them on the same level as France when it surrendered.

I dunno, I just don't see R07 as someone not disgusted by war crimes after reading so much of his stuff, it just doesn't feel right.

>Probably.
>
>>I have this gold
>>how can I use this gold?
>>wait where did it come from?
>>Oh.


You sounds like someone who had time to razionalize that, not like someone who just found it, it's in debt and it's fighting with his/her cunt sibling with that.

BT wasn't the co-writer, it was his editor.

Either way, it's just clear if you re-read episode I-IV that it was always the story he wanted to tell, it just wasn't told very well and the solution was what it was.

Also to add, Hou was complete shit, but then again, it felt like a throwaway work.

Higanbana message is also werid.

>Let's kill all bullies!

Shame that. Although we in the West barely have a better system, it's just that mainstream opinon isn't so hopelessly ignorant.

Meant to be the human familar of a witch who was the writer, who was also the god in Higurashi.

Honestly she and Bern are the absolute worst parts of Umineko to me, purely because they tie this fucking mess with Higurashi.

I guess, it's just really depressing.

>Higanbana message is also werid.
>>Let's kill all bullies

... that wasn't the message?

Heck, the episode in which they kill the bullies, the dude gets mind-raped by Higanbana and then screams to kill him because he regretted and understood what it meant to kill people.

If you believe in Meta, she's literally GOD. She created Umineko and Higurashi universe, and at some point descended onto the word with her human avatar as Ikuko.

If you don't believe in writer, she's just a very weird old lady who writers fanfiction.

>at some point descended onto the word with her human avatar as Ikuko
And shacked up with crippled amnesiac Battler

Should I go for the original sprites? Or just go for the PS3 ones?

I have a relatively decent tolerance for VN QUALITY art style and sprites. So if they're iconic or the improved art detracts from the mood or something I'll just go with them.

Original. PS3 just don't have that charm.

It's simple, don't play this fucking mess. Especially after the spoliers you have doubtlessly just read from this thread

Original.

...

>Especially after the spoliers you have doubtlessly just read from this thread
I didn't read anything, just saw OP, posted and waited for your responses.

Thanks, the voices from the PS3 patch are wroth it though right? Or ignore those too?

so should i read it or not
is it actually good

Yes, do get the voices.

youtube.com/watch?v=hfJueMZJbIc

>Thanks, the voices from the PS3 patch are wroth it though right? Or ignore those too?
I personally don't like Beato voice, but it's up to you I guess.

Keep in mind Umineko has a huge focus on the OST.

No

Go re-read Higurashi instead

VNs

The voice actors themselves are generally good choices (other than perhaps Battler, who I always felt sounded too mature for his character), but the over-the-top screams that Ryukishi likes to write end up sounding a bit underwhelming. Also, Maria's "uu" is annoying as fuck when voiced.

You now seakitties has several manga and anime.

>bringing up the anime
Please don't

you meant Sup Forums right

At least the manga is solid.

Episode 8 is actually better than the VN.

T H I S
H
I
S

VNs are ok for /jp/ too, aren't they?

>Episode 8 is actually better than the VN.
I didn't like some of the changes it made. The magic ending especially is ruined by making the scene explicitly take place in the real world instead of meta.

What is the most underrated episode and why is it episode 3?

Fantasy: A powerful witch and Bernkastel's master, Hanyuu is a fragment of her. Implied to be very involved in Higurashi's events.

Mystery: just some eccentric woman that was helping Battler regain his memories and implied to have a romantic relationship with him in the end. Helped Battler to write episodes 1-4, and wrote 5-6 by herself.

Episode 3 is one of the most favorite episodes, what the fuck are you smocking?

Most people like 3 be.
I remember 7 was well received when it first came out but for some reason general opinion shifted.

*best

What the hell? This is a strange complaint. I think it's your own jew obsessed bias that keeps you from enjoying a part of the story that has connections with the axis powers. You're ignoring the hearts of the men who all killed themselves over the magic spell the gold cast over them. It doesn't matter where it came from, the Italians weren't being cast in a heroic light anyways. The Japanese and they were so obsessed over their own greed, ambitions, and dead country's pride that they all wound up dead right at the end of the war. As if to mirror the 1986 family conflict on the island, where everyone died again for little reason.

It was italians, dumbass. Not Germans.

>Let's kill all bullies!
Is that really the message you got from the story? You're a fool.

>I remember 7 was well received when it first came out but for some reason general opinion shifted.
Eh, I wouldn't say this, if you re-check /jp/ threads

warosu.org/jp/thread/6790041
warosu.org/jp/thread/S7100053

A lot of people felt like Yasu ruined the series forever.

Crazy thought here, but what if Italians on the side of fascism ACTUALLY thought they were the good guys. What if the Japanese also thought they were the good guys back then?

Holy shit, I think I just blew my own mind.

Sorry, wrong pic.

The ruse on that got me so fucking hard

Too fucking hard

> your own jew obsessed bias
Hay buddy, I'm not the one with subs full of fascist gold turning up in my stories here

>You're ignoring the hearts of the men who all killed themselves over the magic spell the gold cast over them
If that even happened, Kinzo is YET ANOTHER unreliable narrator in the story.

>it came from, the Italians weren't being cast in a heroic light anyways
Maybe you should re-read it, because yes, yes they were. Kinzo and co, who are talking about the re-telling of the story, constantly heap praises on them.

Maybe your overlooking the story-telling faults in an attempt to reach themes which may or may not be there?

Actually in the story they mostly are depressed people who didn't really seem to think of themselves with any pride.

It's the narration and the reaction of the characters in the church I take issue with

It should be a crime to be this hot and get so little screentime.

Here we go again.

>Ange ressurects everyone
If you think that's what actually happened. Buddy, you still don't understand magic.

Not him but

>If that even happened, Kinzo is YET ANOTHER unreliable narrator in the story.
This should be obvious to you since the beginning. Kinzo's portrayal about how he got the gold is a complete lie, and episode 7 tea party confirms it. He's portraying everything to his convenience. You shouldn't take his narrative at face value.

Magic is a delusion, and bending of perspective interpreting a truth. So Ange never actually resurrected anyone.

That about right?

My point there was that his point probably wasn't true. So I already understood his was portraying things to his convenience. What's your point?

Obviously Kinzo is an unreliable narrator.
I still don't see what's wrong with facist gold? Or KINZO of all people admiring facists in his own story? Tell me what's wrong with that narrative. I nor Kinzo nor most people reading give a fuck about the crying ghosts of da 6 million.

they were germans back then idiot

That was my understanding. I've heard a lot of people talk as if the magic ending is some bullshit happy ending pulled out of an ass. But it's just as sad as the truth.

Because Lion and Wright both agree that the Italians were great, righteous survivors. They even have a 'Did you know?' moment where they explain that an Italian rump state fought on for the Axis until the end.

These are the SKEPTICS in the story, and they even prop up the 'brave, daring fascist submariners' narrative.

And in a game about thinking, a game about perspective, no-one even gives a shit about where the gold came from. Not a single character. It's bad writing.

>he probably intended the audience to think it came from the defeated Italian government.
I did think that.

Although it's weird, because the author has basically said the Meta is real.

Yet magic isn't real.

Like, in the narrative I know there are reasons for it, but if you want me to be a skeptic, don't 100% confirm a fantasy element RIGHT fucking next to it.

>And in a game about thinking, a game about perspective, no-one even gives a shit about where the gold came from. Not a single character. It's bad writing.
Almost as if half of the character were assholes!

Also really, calm your tits.