Alright cunts, I posted this thread a while ago, essentially I opened Pandoras box and started a big debate on the migrant crisis in Europe
I asked Sup Forums for well written arguments and sources that seem even semi credible, and you delivered
heres what's concluded so far
>This is going to be a big compilation of stats so if it’s too much I can give you individual likes instead
Everything is scoured and public information
I have no quarrel with Islam, but I can’t ignore the massive cultural friction that has been caused by the horrendous behavior and the wide spread cover ups European police. Not to mention how their birth rates are much higher than that of native Europeans. The handling of this could have been much better, multiculturalism is a death sentence for culture itself, if we mix all cultures together there wouldn’t be any culture left. Most of these migrants are economic migrants, and are not fleeing conflict.
Again, I don’t hate islam, but Europe can’t survive if this trend continues, just like Israel couldn’t survive if it accepted it’s share of migrants
express.co.uk
pewforum.org
35% of Palestinians have a favorable opinion of Al Qeada. pewglobal.org
40% of British Muslims want Shariah law. telegraph.co.uk
1 in eight Muslims worldwide has a favorable view of al Quaeda. pewglobal.org
1 in 3 Muslims favorably views Hamas, a known terrorist organization. pewglobal.org
Sup Forums debates my professor V2
Other urls found in this thread:
pewglobal.org
telegraph.co.uk
wzb.eu
worldpublicopinion.org
cbsnews.com
theguardian.com
washingtoninstitute.org
torontosun.com
thecommentator.com
civitas.org.uk
gatestoneinstitute.org
youtu.be
cbsnews.com
abdn.ac.uk
pewforum.org
christiannews.net
twitter.com
I fucked up the last post but whatever
>25% of Egyptian Muslims support terrorist attacks to enforce Shariah law. >pewglobal.org
>1/5 British Muslims sympathize with the 7/7 terrorist attack. >telegraph.co.uk
>65% of European Muslims believe that Shariah law is more important than the law of the country they reside in. >wzb.eu
>European Muslims are 7.5x more likely to be fundamentalists than Christians. >wzb.eu
>45% of European Muslims believe that Jews cannot be trusted. >wzb.eu
>60% of European Muslims are explicitly homphobic. This is not due to poverty or education. >wzb.eu
>40% of Palestinians support attacks on US civilians in America. >worldpublicopinion.org
>87% of Egyptians agree with Al Qaeda's goals. >worldpublicopinion.org
also if anyone needs sources on islam this is your thread
>78% of Egyptians support attacks on US soldiers in the Middle East. worldpublicopinion.org
>62% of Palestinians support the use of suicide bombings. pewglobal.org
>28% of British Muslims would like for Britain to become a fundamentalist Islamic state. >cbsnews.com
>68% of British Muslims support criminalizing criticism of Islam. >cbsnews.com
>3 out of 4 British Muslims support criminalizing drawings of Mohammed. >cbsnews.com
>9% of British Muslims define themselves as "hardcore Islamists". >cbsnews.com
>Only 3% of British Muslims support free speech. cbsnews.com
>0/500 British Muslims believe that homosexuality is morally acceptable. >theguardian.com
>38% of Muslims believe 9/11 was partially or wholly justified. >washingtoninstitute.org
>62% of Canadian Muslims want Shariah law. torontosun.com
>More than 1 in 3 Canadian Muslims refuses to repudiate Al Qaeda.
torontosun.com
Britain will become a Muslim country by 2050 if demographic trends continue. thecommentator.com
At least 85 legally binding Sharia courts operate in Britain. civitas.org.uk
85% of rapists in Sweden were non-Swedish immigrants. gatestoneinstitute.org
North African migrants to Sweden are 23 times more likely to rape than native Swedes.
North African migrants to Sweden are 23 times more likely to rape than native Swedes. gatestoneinstitute.org
African migrants to Sweden are 16 times more likely to rape than ethnic Swedes. gatestoneinstitute.org
Iraqi migrants to Sweden are 2000% more likely to rape than real Swedes. gatestoneinstitute.org
More than 1/2 of rapists in Denmark are immigrants. gatestoneinstitute.org
According to the Sharia law:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand (above).
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
• Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
• A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.
Now to get to his response
I went through several of the links (admittedly I did not have time to go through them all tonight between grading and kids). I want to thank you for engaging me in a meaningful debate. I want to be clear that what I am giving you here are my personal views, and I am only responding to you out of respect for your openness to having this discussion. I will in no way expect you to conform to my views.
Let me begin by saying 1) I think there are some Muslims who are bad people. I do not view Muslims overall as a threat – more in a moment.
should I keep going?
> I think there are some Muslims who are bad people
Whats the estimated percentage ?
dis many
also I just kinda wanted this thread to die because I fucked the formatting up
Dam nit someone beat me to it!
It may seem stupid at first, but it is a very effective way of communicating the information about mass migration:
The formatting is comprehensible. Its a Sup Forums post...
fug u guys I guess I'll continue
his response part 2
2) You always need to be careful in reading opinion polls – many of the articles you cite (outside of the Pew polls) are referencing polls where we don’t actually know what question is asked or the headline is misleading. So, for example, the article on British Muslim sympathy with the terrorist attack says that while many Muslims were sympathetic to the feelings of those carrying out the attacks, only 1% supported the attacks themselves (you can get 1% agreement on almost anything in a poll, even by mistake – heck, one of our professor’s names was put in a Republican poll as a test of knowledge of presidential candidates in 2015. She had 3% favorable and 20% unfavorable ratings. To be clear, she has never run for elective office).
part 2 section 2
On this point, I think it is important to realize some of the things that get sympathy in this country. Look up the Branch Davidian Siege in Waco, or the Ruby Ridge siege. In particular in the case of the Branch Davidians, these were really bad people. There was a long siege that didn’t go well against their compound. They were religious extremist. Take a look at this article on polling on the Davidians: cbsnews.com
part 3 section 1
>3) So let’s talk Pew Numbers. A lot of the Arab public is sympathetic to Al Qaeda. Keep in mind that Al Qaeda is presented much more complexly in Arab media because it is complex. The vast majority of Muslims (and Arabs generally) do not support Al Qaeda’s tactics, but they are sympathetic to Al Qaeda’s criticism of the west, particularly the enabling of dictators (a big part of Al Qaeda’s message), the suppression of Arab populations by despots (Al Qaeda preached freedom), and the suppression of Palestinians by Israel (Israel is viewed as an extension of colonialism in much of the Arab world). There is also widespread suppression of media in the Arab world, and many people are not aware of the full extent of what Al Qaeda has done or they believe conspiracy theories regarding them. Now does this mean 1/3 of the Arab public supports the violent methods Al Qaeda uses? No, I don’t think it does. It means there is a lot of dissatisfaction in the Arab world, which we already knew. Hamas and Hezbollah are way more complicated. Hezbollah is a political party (it also has a violent wing). There actions have historically been confined to attacks against Israeli troops in Lebanon, though they’ve also done some attacks in Northern Israel. They are supported by Iran and engaged in the 2006 war against Israel. After the war, they helped rebuild villages and schools. If you live in the region, you are likely to support the people giving you money to help you rebuild. Hamas is a similar story. To some Palestinians, they are freedom fighters. They provide social services to large numbers of people, and are also a political party. They are also violent and engage in terrorism. But in a simple poll question about support for Hamas, you can’t split that stuff out.
Part 3 section 2
>In Political Science, Hamas is often compared to the Irish Republican Army and its political wing Sinn Fein. There is a really good book on groups like this by Kevin Grisham, I forget the name. But just to show how polls often show the ugly side of people, here is a good research article on support for paramilitary violence in Northern Ireland: abdn.ac.uk
part 3 section 3
We can tell similar stories about the Taliban and some other groups. The Taliban doesn’t operate outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Many Arabs don’t approve of life under the Taliban – but the Taliban is seen as the group that defeated the Soviet Union in the ‘80s and yes, many Arabs are rooting for them as an underdog against the US. They see the US as a bully that has made things much worse in Iraq and the region as a whole.
There are a great deal more polls there. Some of them tell scary stories – Egyptian Muslims don’t like the US (note that they blame the US for having invaded Iraq, unleashing Al Qaeda in Iraq, and making ISIS possible). Egypt also blames the US for some of the problems in Somalia, and many Egyptians blame the US for enabling a military regime which systematically denied them rights. Arabs in the Middle East also see reports of the civilians killed in US drone strikes and it makes them mad. Again, if you have limited access to news and what you are seeing is civilians being killed by drone strikes (flown by pilots thousands of miles away), you might not be real happy with the people responsible and might support some pretty bad people you see standing up to them.
part 3 section 4
>So I think the polling is a mixed bag. Some of it is legitimately worrisome. Some of it is overblown. Some of it is about question wording (heck, I was part of a poll once that if taken literally, meant that 90% of Americans supported cutting arms sales to Saudi Arabia!).
part 4
>4) What about support for Sharia law? That is scary! Except read the Guardian article again. The article suggests support for application of Sharia law in some parts of the UK. It doesn’t specify what is meant by that, or which version of Sharia (it is not monolithic), or whether it would only apply to Muslims. Just for some context. Here is a Pew study on religious attitudes toward public education in the US (pewforum.org
part 5
>5) Refugees. The one article I read below isn’t about Syrian refugees. It is about a specific group of migrants leaving North Africa (not Syria) who are, in fact, primarily economic refugees / migrants, not political refugees.
part 6
>6) Some of the other articles have scary headlines, but the data isn’t doesn’t bear it out. Questions on Al Qaeda are often “do you fully repudiate Al Qaeda.” That was the one in Canada that got around 30% saying no. It’s a bad way to ask the question because, again, many Muslims agree with the Al Qaeda’s goals on some issues, but not their methods. Heck, our interest are aligned with Al Qaeda against Isis (they are fighting in Yemen and Syria). We aren’t working with them. The same article references support for Sharia law – again, the question was that some Sharia law could be applied to Muslims, but the percentage saying it should be mandatory was very low.
part 7
>7) The article on Sweden intrigued me. I looked up crime data from the UNODC and it bears out the idea that sexual violence is a big problem in Sweden. I pulled a few quick articles but couldn’t find a good explanation. Most of the reported attacks appear to be by acquaintances (as most sexual violence is), and other data suggest that one issue is much higher reporting rates in Sweden. It may be higher in the migrant community, but I couldn’t find data to confirm this.
epilogue
>So where does this leave me. I don’t share your view of the death of culture. I view all culture as a constant evolution. Southern culture in the US has had some terrible attributes (virulent racism which was still a reality as I grew up when the use of racial slurs was exceedingly common among students and some teachers) and a willingness to suppress the views of outsiders. We had a lot of prayers at my school, often led by a Church that I didn’t particularly like (not my denomination, but the predominant one in my area). We’ve evolved. It’s better but not perfect. I’m not as worried about the demography. Usually by the 2nd and 3rd generation, immigrants are not usually way out of line with others. And if not… well, I would rather work with new communities than treat them bad now and bear the consequences earlier. European culture has had some pretty terrible outcomes – that whole Nazi holocaust thing was pretty terrible. A century of anti-Jewish pogroms before that, also bad. That culture has also spawned greatness! So has Arab culture (it was the Arabs by and large who preserve the teachings of the Ancient Greeks as they were rooted out in Europe; Arab scientists gave us the tools of exploration and navigation). Also some bad stuff! Al Qaeda, suppression of women’s rights in some places. Anti-Semitism. I guess they shared that with much of Europe.
epilogue part 2
>And this is where we may have a fundamental disagreement – I don’t get the fear of cultural change and assimilation. History is full of cultures clashing and evolving over time. Sometimes bad ideas hold sway, often good ideas grow and change the world for the better. I’ll keep working with my Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, and Atheist friends who are interested in helping people and preventing division. That’s me. I fear people who preach violence and separation, whatever their religion. Right now, a lot of those people are Muslim. 40 years ago, a lot of those people were Soviet Russians. 50 years ago, it was anarchist in Europe. 60 years ago it was white supremacists killing little girls in Alabama. In Ireland, it was Irish against Irish based on religion. Heck, in Israel, there was Jewish violence against British authorities (this is a very sympathetic telling of the bombing of the King David hotel which killed 91 people).
So my goal was to get him to admit the cultural friction europe is facing didn't have to happen and isn't worth the amount of people saved
remember I'm keeping this normie tier arguments, I'm just trying to prove refugees bad, secure boarders good
baby steps guys
Your professor is a cuck
>they didnt understand the questions
>they dont REALLY want to kill ALL non-muslims
>even if they do is that so bad? Its a cultural change.
m8 I know, he's a nice guy, and I have hope for him
plus I want to do something no one on Sup Forums has ever done
I want to redpill a professor