Why there is no Miyazaki successor

Say what you want about Miyazaki, but his art style and design philosophy are by far the best in the anime industry (including mangaka). It doesn't rely on photorealism or terrible CGI, everything on screen comes from Miyazaki's own hand and skill as an artist. His style is so iconic that it's been emulated nonstop, even by the other so-called "successors" like Shinkai and even in his own studio. The fact that no one has been to uproot his dominance in the Japanese anime industry just goes to show how iconic and brilliant his style is.

There isn't a single person you can name that surpasses him on a visual design level.

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youtu.be/oz49vQwSoTE
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midnighteye.com/interviews/satoshi-kon-2/
comic-ryu.jp/_runemasquer/index.html
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>There isn't a single person you can name that surpasses him on a visual design level.
Anno

What has Anno ever designed? What is his art style?

That's right. He doesn't even have one.

Takahata is superior. That's why Miyazaki is perpetually salty. He constantly lives knowing he's inferior and relies on Disney Jews to prop him up.

>but his art style and design philosophy are by far the best in the anime industry
Delusion.
Post like these are the reason why Miyazaki gets shitposted so much, well, that and the fact that he is a bitter cunt.

Takahata doesn't draw.

>Delusion

Feel free to post something or name someone who is better.

>Post like these are the reason why Miyazaki gets shitposted so much

No, it's just a bunch of contrarian faggots who hate him because he's the most popular person in all of anime.

This.

>contrarian
This as well, a very popular cancer among us, though not contrarian with regards to that other user's ideas.

People are more salty about Miyazaki than they are Oshii and Tomino, both of whom bitch more than he does.

People just hate him because he's popular and has a personality.

Amano comes close.

>his art style and design philosophy are by far the best in the anime industry
Malarkey.

>(including mangaka)
Balderdash!

Nigga Amano destroys Miyazaki.

>People are more salty about Miyazaki than they are Oshii and Tomino, both of whom bitch more than he does.
That, my mentally challenged friend, is because Oshii and Tomino's complaints didn't turn into memes that get reinvented and reposted by falseflaggers and normalfags every day for years on end. Which goes back to >Feel free to post something or name someone who is better.
Well, since you specifically said mangaka are fair game - Tezuka, Ishinomori, Otomo, Kuroda Iou, Katou Shinkichi, Igarashi Daisuke, Nagano, etc., etc. all blow him right out of the water if you consider artstyle, designs, and page layout.

This and Nagano is Tomino's.
And Ikuhara is the medium who connects both.
Collab anime when?

As much as I like Miyazaki (and I like his work a lot) there are other great directors and artists in the field as well. The late Satoshi Kon is one director who was actually doing new things with animation and editing that Ghibli has never attempted. There have been a lot of good directors and creators in the industry, but unfortunately Miyazaki has reached meme-tier.

At least in the west I attribute that to Ghibli partnering up with Disney. When you have disney money, and the ability to be in theaters nation wide instead of niche theaters in large cities you're going to be a more recognizable name.

> Nagano is Tomino's
What did Tomino even design?

I've never really considered Amano because he is more focused in video games which are a different design medium altogether.

>Oshii and Tomino's complaints didn't turn into memes

Tomino did, even more than Miyazaki, and even after G-Reco there still isn't as much asspain with him as there is Miya-san.

>Tezuka, Ishinomori, Otomo, Kuroda Iou, Katou Shinkichi, Igarashi Daisuke, Nagano

Lists are meaningless without explanation as to each of the people named. And fucking Tezuka, really? His art style is as simple and plain as things come, far from inventive or creative like Miyazaki.

You're seeing things from a director's perspective. Kon is a good director but he is not a designer like Miyazaki, and his works is more based on cinema than portraying art.

>Tomino did, even more than Miyazaki
What? No, not at all. At least not on Sup Forums. Tomino's complaints are posted less than a twentieth as much as Miyazaki's and aren't edited constantly or really used as a meme in any way. Or did you misread what I wrote?

>Lists are meaningless without explanation as to each of the people named
Shifting the goalposts.
You said to name some, and I did.

You do realize that Kon was also an animator as well as a director right? And of course I'm looking at this from a directors perspective, both are credited as directors and both have a very distinct visual style/story telling structure that is indicative of their types of works. You know if it's a Kon or Miyazaki film from the artwork alone, and you can feel their individual tendencies in their compositions and narratives. It's a completely valid metric.
>and his works is more based on cinema than portraying art.
So cinema isn't a type of art? Knowing how to edit in interesting ways that enhances your narrative isn't an artistic technique? Heck, Kon also does what Miyazaki often derides other artists for not doing which is actually getting out and meeting people so you can better write human characters. Kon's work is almost exclusively an analysis on human though, perception, and how we deal with being human. Dude was an amazing artist and I can't think of a single film he made that isn't a proud part of my collection.

>story telling

>And fucking Tezuka, really? His art style is as simple and plain as things come, far from inventive or creative like Miyazaki.
Tezuka's sense of visual design exceeds Miyazaki's by far, you're just a faggot who can only judge design in individual objects and not by the page itself.

Fuck off with your 3D bullshit, crossboarder. And don't come back.

I don't understand, what is your complaint?

>Shifting the goalposts.
>You said to name some, and I did.

You can name as many people as you want but it's not a compelling argument because you can't explain why. I've already explained in detail why I think Miyazaki is such high-calibre.

Miyazaki is an artist before he is a movie maker. There is no one else in the anime industry who does what he does.

?
I saw this guy give a live talk about anime a con once a few years ago, what does he have to do with Sup Forums?

>cons
>non-Sup Forums reaction image
Kill yourself.

I have literally never seen a Miyazaki film. Has he ever made something that isn't just appealing to little girls?

you sound very angry user, do you have a problem with anime or something? I can't imagine why you'd be on this board if you did.

>Tezuka's sense of visual design exceeds Miyazaki's by far

Are you serious? Tezuka's designs are straight out of old school Disney. He was good for his time but nowadays his style is hilariously dated. Miyazaki's style is classic and still stands to this day.

> I've already explained in detail why I think Miyazaki is such high-calibre.
You have actually said almost nothing about Miyazaki's art itself. You just said it wasn't CGI or photorealistic, and then you derailed yourself with a bunch of stuff about how many people imitated it and how famous he was.
>Miyazaki is an artist before he is a movie maker. There is no one else in the anime industry who does what he does.
Are you retarded? You realize there are various mangaka who have been trained as classical artists, right?

He rambled about a canadian kid piloting a robot, very meta if you ask me.

Tezuka's art directly influenced Disney, among others.

You really can't finish reading a post, can you? As I've alluded to twice now, Tezuka's strength as a visual designer lay primarily in his page design/layout, not the individual entities.

>So cinema isn't a type of art?

As in putting designs on paper? No. Hell I'm not going to go into this whole "what is art" argument but my point is that Kon is someone who thinks with a camera instead of a pen. Same goes for Anno. Most directors were animators but what they animated wasn't necessarily their art style.

And Tezuka's style itself was directly inspired by Carl Barks and his work with Donald Duck comics, and, more specifically, Scrooge McDuck, of which Tezuka was a big fan. So, in a sense, most modern anime and western animation descend from Donald Duck comics.

>You have actually said almost nothing about Miyazaki's art itself.

Do I physically NEED to describe his art style? I've already posted several pieces of his art in this thread. I can't tell you what your eyes already see. You mention Tezuka and ironically I'm the only one in this thread so far who has posted something he drew.

>I've alluded to twice now, Tezuka's strength as a visual designer lay primarily in his page design/layout

And when have I ever talked about layout? I'm referring to Miyazaki's design and artistic sense, not his story boarding and directorial sense.

My point is, Miyazaki is truly unique in that his movie making philosophy revolves around his own designs and "rules" for how something moves. As for why I like his art style- it's so out there with all the madness of the European and Japanese hybrid stylings but so wonderful and unique to look at. It's not busy for the sake of being busy, and never really goofy or cartoony either, and the simpler character designs help to contrast with that. It's unlike anything I've ever seen before and nobody has ever come close to matching it.

>Miyazaki is an artist before he is a movie maker. There is no one else in the anime industry who does what he does.

>literally entire professions in the industry specifically devoted to designing things
>NO ONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY DOES THIS GUYS

>As in putting designs on paper?
That's not what I mentioned at any junction. Directing a scene and using things like alternative or different forms of editing to enhance the mood, tone, etc of your work is something an artist does. Cinema itself is a type of art and it has it's own practices and standards.
Watch this video for a pretty short understanding of what editing adds to Kon's works.
youtu.be/oz49vQwSoTE

>Kon is someone who thinks with a camera instead of a pen
Partiallyl true, but since his works routinely used framing and editing techniques that are impossible on camera he does in fact think with a pen and a camera.

>Most directors were animators but what they animated wasn't necessarily their art style.
Please go find a copy of "the art of satoshi kon"
That's his style on display

Kon is still a valid industry member to bring up.

People who design a world aesthetic from scratch? Not many to begin with. People who can design with an aesthetic as unique and unwordly as Miyazaki's? Practically none. And nobody has ever embraced European art style as strongly as he has.

>more focused in video games

If you're as much of aficionado as you think you are, you would know Amano directed several anime series, most notably Speed Racer, Gatchaman, and the Legend of Aslan.

Don't think you can try to bullshit your way out of this, there are plenty of other good directors other than Miyazaki. They just abandoned the sinking ship that is the japanse animation industry while Miyazaki was too stubborn and too proud leave it.

>And nobody has ever embraced European art style as strongly as he has.

You can't be this stupid can you?

>Do I physically NEED to describe his art style?
Since you were begging for explanations about others, yes, that's what an explanation would be - it would have to do with his artstyle, not with how many people like it.
>I can't tell you what your eyes already see.
Then don't ask me to do that for you.


>And when have I ever talked about layout? I'm referring to Miyazaki's design and artistic sense, not his story boarding and directorial sense.
So you're completely ignoring visual design that doesn't have to do with single objects, okay.

>My point is, Miyazaki is truly unique in that his movie making philosophy revolves around his own designs and "rules" for how something moves. As for why I like his art style- it's so out there with all the madness of the European and Japanese hybrid stylings but so wonderful and unique to look at. It's not busy for the sake of being busy, and never really goofy or cartoony either, and the simpler character designs help to contrast with that. It's unlike anything I've ever seen before and nobody has ever come close to matching it.
See, there? Now you have actual explanations that aren't just "he's famous!" So now you can reasonably demand that others do the same. I'll include my explanations in my next post, because the word limit is an issue.

I guess Tezuka, Ishinomori, and Otomo get left out by your silly definition of visual design, so here are my arguments for the others.
Kuroda's use of monochrome palettes and darkness everywhere is fucking great. He knows exactly how to use it to manage his atmosphere and the sense of impact that pages have on the reader. It also directs the eye exactly where it needs to be without making the rest of the page look empty.
Katou Shinkichi's got some of the coolest linework I've ever seen - it's bold and stands out without sacrificing detail, and he uses it for fantastic dynamic pages, as well as his great emotive facial designs and the top-tier alien world in Sutakola so far.
Igarashi's pretty much mastered the weird/sketchy nature-focused aesthetic that a lot of those nouvelle manga types use. Incredible backgrounds, great and somewhat offputting character designs, and it all fits his bizarre stories so well.
Nagano is fucking Nagano, and I really hope anyone starting an argument about anime design doesn't need an explanation of how great he is, but whatever. He's probably the one you can compare to Miyazaki most directly, since they both did manga with great Dune-ish settings, and FSS' world and designs crush Nausicaa's under their feet. Incredible mechs that are both elegant and imposing, great /fa/ designs, and very creative and visually intricate reimaginings of dinosaurs and dragons and devils.

>My point is, Miyazaki is truly unique in that his movie making philosophy revolves around his own designs and "rules" for how something moves.
The same applies to Satoshi Kon. He does a lot with dreamscapes and memories that inform every aspect of his presentation including how he ties the dreamworlds to the reality the characters experience.

> It's unlike anything I've ever seen before and nobody has ever come close to matching it.
Literally the same applies to Satoshi Kon, people try and copy his style and I've seen the stuff that influenced him but nobody gets close to his style.

And if it seems I'm sucking this one directors cock a bit too much. I've been rewatching all his movies and Paranoia Agent since the anniversary of his passing was a week ago.

>Please go find a copy of "the art of satoshi kon"
>That's his style on display

I'm sure he has an art style, but as it stands, the art in his movies is grounded in reality than Miyazaki. There is no whimsy. And when you have "realism" used like that, the designs stand out less.

>Speed Racer, Gatchaman, and the Legend of Aslan.

So too very ugly old anime and a novel cover series which has nothing to do with anime? Okay.

A single robot design is not representative of an artist's style user. There's a lot of fantasy mecha, but not fantasy worlds. You'll have to do better than that.

>I'll include my explanations in my next post, because the word limit is an issue.

I'm waiting.

>Not a lot of fantasy worlds in anime

You need to watch more anime, buddy.

The moment you said none of Kon's works were art while simultaneously worshiping Miyazaki baffled me.

>I'm waiting.
I already posted them five minutes ago, though. I even quoted you in the post so you'd see it. You really can't seem to read the thread properly before posting.

>There is no whimsy
Right there, full stop, I can tell you have never seen a Satoshi Kon film.

And the point is that Kon is not just using another artist as a reference point, the style of the movies IS his style. That's why the aesthetics are so on point across over a decade of films. It's his style being used as the basis.

Dear god if you wanted to suck Miyazaki's cock be less obvious abou it

discord.gg/TXdANy9

>A single robot design is not representative of an artist's style user. There's a lot of fantasy mecha, but not fantasy worlds. You'll have to do better than that.

>he doesn't know who the fuck Nagano is

For your own sake, just stop. We all know that you don't know anything about the people your shitting on and are just making up ill-thought retorts to justify your own ignorance.

>A single robot design is not representative of an artist's style user. There's a lot of fantasy mecha, but not fantasy worlds.
I'm going to have to call it a day here, this level of bait/retardation is too much for me. On the off-chance you're serious, please don't poston Sup Forums again until you've lurked for two years and seen 200 anime.

Did you miss the thread from yesterday where some faggot legitimately thought Anno and Rebuild 1.0 deserved an Oscar? The stupidity of this board never stops.

That came out wrong. My point was that a single design does not constitute a whole world. And yes, there are a lot of fantasy settings, but most of them like the ones you see airing on shows like SAO or its copies are all generic and boring.

I was writing that post before I saw your reply, bite me. I'll get back to you later.

Sorry if I didn't mention some obscure artist that no one on Sup Forums ever talks about, if he or any other people mentioned so far are as good as you say why haven't they been as successful as Miyazaki has?

Yes I realize including mangaka in this conversation was a mistake and I'm a moron for mentioning it.

>Nagano
> some obscure artist that no one on Sup Forums ever talks about

I'm a lover of fantasy and sci-fi, but I don't think every media needs it.

Also, this further shows you've not seen many anime or anime movies, specifically Kon. To deny Kon creates complex characters and worlds is ludicrous.

>most fantasy are isekai.
No, they aren't. Not at all. As others have stated, broaden your horizon and watch more anime. Sounds like you've only seen some LN adaptations and some Miyazaki. There's a plethora of both fantasy and sci-fi anime with world's and themes as well crafted and artistic as Miyazaki.

>Right there, full stop, I can tell you have never seen a Satoshi Kon film.

There is no whimsy to his art choices and style. I don't mean whimsy with things to freak you out like the parade in Paprika, I mean whimsy in that its naturally occurring and fits with its setting.

>And the point is that Kon is not just using another artist as a reference point, the style of the movies IS his style. That's why the aesthetics are so on point across over a decade of films. It's his style being used as the basis.

The problem is that Kon's style would be no different if he as making live-action instead of animation. What's the point of the work then? I like Kon but he doesn't take advantage of animation as a medium like Miyazaki does.

Nagano is like one of the second-tier of most famous/successful mech designers ever, user. And the first tier consists solely of Okawara.

To be fair to him, Nagano is pretty obscure to the average MAL user whom I'm sure OP is.

> The problem is that Kon's style would be no different if he as making live-action instead of animation.
Anyone have that interview where Kon addresses this exact point?

>I don't mean whimsy with things to freak you out like the parade in Paprika, I mean whimsy in that its naturally occurring and fits with its setting.

Nigga you just contradicted yourself again. Please stop posting and go outside of MAL.

>whimsy
I don't think you know what that word means. But if you are talking the Oxford English definitions, then...Maybe it is that way because many of Miyazaki's movies are meant for children or a family audience?

Things like Paprika, Tokyo Godfathers, and Paranoia Agent aren't really meant for younger audiences. They won't understand, just like you don't.
>Kon would be no different with love action
MANY MANY times he has said he prefers animation because he can reduce frame count and excess footage and give the mind a sense of either urgency or relaxation in the moment. Or that he can make scenes no one could ever set up in love action or even 3D.

Kon does have an artistic style. Just because his studio didn't enter a Disney partnership doesn't mean it's inferior.
Go about halfway in. Though I suggest OP watch the whole thing so he knows how ignorant and how much of an ignoramus he is making himself out to be
youtu.be/oz49vQwSoTE

Live action*

>Sorry if I didn't mention some obscure artist that no one on Sup Forums ever talks about, if he or any other people mentioned so far are as good as you say why haven't they been as successful as Miyazaki has?

Because most of them don't own a private studio with yes-men and are sick as shit of the anime industry?

The anime industry has changed, Miyasaki has not.

It's no longer a niche for artsy directors and illustrators, its a well oiled machine that takes in popular manga, light novels, and tropes and produces mass media franchises.

Most of his peers have moved on into other mediums such as videogames or print media, some have moved on to the hereafter. He is a relic venerated for his achievements but too stubborn and afraid to move from his comfort zone. The company built around him only serves to market his current project to the masses or use his past works for branding purposes .

>It's no longer a niche for artsy directors and illustrators
By Miyazaki's own claims, it was never that. Or if it was, it was before he joined the industry. He's complained on many occasions that the creative/independent spirit of the industry died when the 50s did, and that it was replaced by Astro Boy's production-line mentality.

>There is no whimsy to his art choices and style.
Bullshit and you should feel ashamed for lying like this. His main motif is literally dreamscapes and memories, how does that not fit in with the definition of whimsy?

>I don't mean whimsy with things to freak you out like the parade in Paprika, I mean whimsy in that its naturally occurring and fits with its setting.
So there can only be one type of Whimsy? Lilke another user said, Kon goes for a different type of whimsy whereas Miyazaki goes for a more childlike one.

>The problem is that Kon's style would be no different if he as making live-action instead of animation
>Anyone have that interview where Kon addresses this exact point?
midnighteye.com/interviews/satoshi-kon-2/
To quote
>I: I'm curious whether you'll ever make a live action movie, which is something I'd love to see.

>Kon: I have no interest in making a live action movie at all, in part because I like drawing so much. Although I understand that directing means creating mise-en-scene, whether with real actors or CG, personally I don't think it's something I'd do because I'm not adept at it. I'm much better at drawing.

seriously you sound like you cannot accept that Miyazaki isn't the only creative mind of his kind.

There are several others I would add to this, Makoto Kobayashi, Tatsuyuki Tanaka, and Yoshitoshi Abe

People on Sup Forums are more interested in translating their current shitty LN's and VN's or harem manga than they are for FSS, which hasn't had a single chapter translated since 2006 and now we're 3 volumes behind. So yes, FSS is indeed very obscure, and OP not knowing about it is unsurprising.

Doesn't help that Gothicmade never came out on BD either.

>It doesn't rely on photorealism or terrible CGI,

Ironically the Moving Castle was made and animated entirely with CGI other than its legs.

>I've never really considered Amano because he is more focused in video games which are a different design medium
If you only know his art from the Squaresoft games he continually gets commissioned to do that is. He doesn't only do just art for video games, he also did art for many anime (at least until around 1982) and novels for many different authors over the years, yet he found much more success independently as well and has amassed many domestic and international galleries showcasing his work (even moreso than the likes of Ghibli). Fucker even got to do things like making stage and costume designs for a play and had his own work animated/directed by American hands (see: 1001 Nights.

>So yes, FSS is indeed very obscure, and OP not knowing about it is unsurprising.
That's not how this works, user. Archives show Nagano and/or FSS mentioned on Sup Forums basically every single day, not to mention that this is a thread about fucking visual design and he's one of the more famous and influential visual designers in all of anime history.

And now an excerpt from the aforementioned "1001 Nights".

There hasn't been a chapter of Area 88 translated since 1989, but Area 88 sure isn't obscure.

>the art in his movies is grounded in reality than Miyazaki. There is no whimsy.
Are you serious? Did you even watch any of his films?

>ITT Miyazaki drone trying to prove its privilege with its frog-in-a-well knowledge

Anything new on Sup Forums?

...

Just went to check out the archives, and you are right that it's mentioned quite a bit more now. Not exactly much discussion though like most other threads.

Area 88 had a lot more media to go with it though. FSS is just an unfinished manga, a gorgeous but very short movie, and another movie that no one here has even seen yet. Not to mention the sore lack of merchandise.

>Makoto Kobayashi

Fucker is awesome, too bad all he does now is CGI and Yamato.

>Why there is no Miyazaki successor
Because Miyazaki CHOOSE a successor. Yoshifumi Kondō.

But then Kondō unexpectedly dropped dead in 1998. And now Miyazaki assumes that his studio will fail once he is gone.

At least Izubuchi's been freed up from Yamato now (not that he was doing a bad job as director), so maybe we'll see some new work from him after Patlabor short.

>Draw a bunch of gorgeous mecha for your mecha
>Never use them and drop the series after 1 volume

fuck him

Didn't he go back to it at some point? Or was the color version all that came out of that?

Actually, I just checked for myself and the colored version definitely went past the original, but since I don't speak nip I can't tell what exactly the status is. Anyone want to help out?
comic-ryu.jp/_runemasquer/index.html

>Nagano is fucking Nagano, and I really hope anyone starting an argument about anime design doesn't need an explanation of how great he is, but whatever. He's probably the one you can compare to Miyazaki most directly, since they both did manga with great Dune-ish settings

It goes even deeper than that. Nagano lived most of his youth in Maizuru, Kyoto, which was a port city and the location of one of the US naval bases stationed in Japan. His grandafther worked as an engineer and was part of the lead design team for the Fubuki-class destroyer. Meanwhile his parents owned a small tapestry/clothing business mainly working on kimonos and more traditional Japanese clothing, something that was pretty common for Kyoto at the time. That was how he got into both mechanical and fashion design, and I imagine he too feels the same way Miyazaki does when it comes to war and weaponry, which affected his design philosophy deeply into creating mecha that were more like prized works of art as opposed to mere industrial killing machines.

And then at some point in his life he got really into rock and roll and cosplay and met Tomino at the premiere of the 2nd Gundam movie while playing an electric guitar and dressed as Char. And that marked the beginning of his career in the anime industry.

>US naval bases stationed in Japan. His grandafther worked as an engineer and was part of the lead design team for the Fubuki-class destroyer

Small typo, meant to say that it was the location of one of Japan's main naval bases during WWII (and still is today for the JSDF). Nagano's grandfather was a student from the Imperial Japanese Navy Engineering Academy there and that's how he got his position in designing Fubuki.

>People on Sup Forums are more interested in translating their current shitty LN's and VN's or harem manga than they are for FSS

So true.
>Kemono no Souja Erin not translated
>Jinrui Wa Suitai Shimashita not translated
>Seirei no Moribito not translated
>Dragon Quest manga not translated

I don't even know what Area 88 is until now.

Shit's obscure man.

>Yoshifumi Kondō

Still remember his work on the WMT series. Shit's so cash.

He designed best girl.

That's Sadamoto, anta baka.

>we will never see his EVA-01 design proposal

desuarchive.org/_/search/image/DbV1lsmJTsZS8I_1HRhzww/
Stop.

>posts it on /m/

literally why

That was probably just a shitposter who brought it to /m/ for easy bait.

OP has parroted this garbage before though:

desuarchive.org/a/thread/146537132/#146543338

To be fair, he did say "terrible CGI". We're getting to a point where we can differentiate between good and bad CGI. Most anime is still using bad CGI. I know I'm controversial in my opinion, but Polygon Pictures gives me hope for CGI anime.

>polygon
>good
fuck off, only orange and i.g./xebec staff are good cgi

None of those studios are producing full CGI TV series right now. Apples and oranges.

It would just be another Ultraman.

japan has a pretty bad case of:
>"old men past their prime still think they are hot shit and wont move on and wont allow others to take the spotlight unless they like them"

giant company's in japan are full of these fucks, they build up a career way back, made a name for them selfs, but will get in the way of young people making a name for themselfs.
instead they pick out some guy thats conected to him and they start pushing him, even going so far to destroy his contenders.