Is the character assassination of Goku the greatest travesty of DBS?

Is the character assassination of Goku the greatest travesty of DBS?

Looking back at early Z it becomes clear he was so much more than an obnoxious retard.

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Reminder he was taught advanced maths in Dragon Ball but now can't count to 3 and has the intelligence of fat Buu

Super is terrible, they should have just left DBZ alone. The inconsistency is astounding

He had to be a retard to give the rest of the crew a reason to fight.
If he was all business all the time it wouldn't be as interesting.

What should have happened since Buu saga is:
-Vegeta exceeds Goku through hard work
-causes collateral damage
-he and Goku have a falling out
-this leads to a real rivalry, Vegeta always wants to be the one fighting the big bad but Goku needs to stop both him and the big bad
-this gives urgency to the situation and stops Goku from goofing around like a retard outside of filler
-meanwhile Gohan figures out a way to become relevant

youtube.com/watch?v=2QTRN8YX2LM

The early goku was weird as fuck too. I don't know what Toriyama was trying to do but the way that he talks towards Vegeta it's sexual as fuck. As if he was in pleasure after fighting him.

He's also been dead for a total of 8 years, and likely has extensive brain damage at this point considering all his fights.

>As if he was in pleasure after fighting him.
That's the whole point

That's funny, because early Z Goku was also character assassination to some degree. The anime made him more heroic and a warrior of justice, when the manga perceived him as more of a selfish, almost gray character. This is something Toriyama actually had a problem with, and mentioned his disapproval.

>advanced
It wasn't advanced at all, it was basic.

People tend to forget that Goku has almost always been the same, the few rare exceptions are when he is a SSJ and rage takes over. Which was no longer a thing for SSJ1 at the very least.

Why didn't he spare Freeza and Buu in a similar fashion then? Yeah they got later resurrected in some ways, but he did kill them even though they both proved to exceed his expectations like Vegeta did.

No, the character assassination of Vegeta is worse. Even up to the Buu saga, Vegeta was never this goofy, and he was certainly never scared of his wife. Now he's stuffing his face in comedic fashion just like Goku, doing funny dances, making funny "shocked" faces, and...THIS.

to be fair he was going to spare Frieza but then Frieza even while cut in half attacked him thus making Goku "kill" him when he didn't want too.

Buu on the only hand literally destroyed earth and killed damn near all of Goku's Friends/Family he could not be kept alive.

I like dumb Goku better. Z, especially the dub, fucked Goku's intended character in my opinion. Goku's gimmick has always been that he's insanely strong and a talented fighter but pretty obviously about everything else. His simplemindedness is actually what makes him pure of heart, by many accounts.

I was told that the english dub was the one that ruined Goku's character and made him seem a lot more heroic than he actually was and that he was always a retard. I don't know how true this is or not, since I've never watched the sub.

He did try to spare Frieza. He gave him some of his ki to leave Namek remember? Also SSJ Goku was pure rage back then.

As for Buu he didn't have much of a choice. Buu wasn't going to listen to reason and fuck off like Vegeta was trying to do and Kid Buu was a mindless animal essentially. Hell Goku even had some banter with Cell too and wasn't all that worried about him at times. Vegeta never really gave a fuck about destroying the planet outside of when he got angry a few times, he just wanted the Dragon Balls.

When Saiyans fight, some substance like dopamine is released in them. So when Vegeta and Goku fight, they may be adversaries but they know how good the other is feeling because of it.

Re-watch Goku vs Majin Vegeta with that in mind. It's almost sexual.

other* hand fuck lol

Because Vegeta has grown out of all his past stuff and Goku has rubbed off on him. The only real assassination of Vegeta is the fact that he's mad over Goku being better than him despite admitting he was in the Buu Saga.

Its true to some degree, but its mostly his speech when he goes SSJ that is the difference, the dub definitely does it. In the dub he talks about being a warrior of justice and protector of the universe, in japanese he's just talking about being a warrior of rage and stuff.

They're both pretty much the same though.

The anime in general does shit like that. Like with Goku meeting Goten. In the anime, they had them hug. In the manga, Goku goes "that kid looks like me. Neat" and literally does not interact with him.

>Is the character assassination of Goku the greatest travesty of DBS ANIME?
ftfy


Reminder that Toei's Goku is a flandarized version of the original and the DBS manga is superior to the anime.

>literally does not interact with him.

I think GT handled family-man Vegeta better. Stoic, protective father, and a little uncool.

Goku's retardness is astounding in Dragon Ball Super. He was always simple-minded fool who liked fighting but that's too much in Super, American dub was a an assasination of his character, Super isn't better.

>I think GT handled family-man Vegeta better
Shit taste

>Stoic
Boring

I was referring to their meeting, as added by the context of "Like when Goku met Goten".

GT handled everything better

Then again, in the GT continuity, nothing bad ever happened in the ten year timeskip. That's probably enough to mellow him out for good.

Japanese DBZ, Goku is a naive hick/country bumpkin

English DBZ they turned him into a retard, if they wanted to be somewhat accurate they would've given Goku a southern accent and speak like a redneck.

>i hate character development
God DB's fanbase is cancer

I've always wondered about this. I guess Funi just decided American kids wouldn't get behind hick Goku.

Goku is only serious about anything when he knows people are gonna get killed

I fucking hate the adroid saga but Goku in that was pretty solid to me
He retainded his laks personality but was serious about everything he did in that act because he was put on a timer to do something about it

Don't worry guys, I notice that Blue is better than Gold, even for Saiyans, so I'm here to save the day and kill Goku Black!

>Japanese DBZ, Goku is a naive hick/country bumpkin

This
It's weird to hear Goku's japanese when you learn the language.

Imagine if Superman always talked like a boy from Kansas. It'd kill the mood. Given the dub playing up his heroic aspects, making him sound like that probably would hinder that effort.

Hasn't Gone always been a success? Especially with Cell...

It's weird even when you don't.

Speak English

Shit meant dumbass

>He literally can't even count to 3

Is it right that Goku's intelligence is below the level of pic related?

>English DBZ they turned him into a retard,
Not really, only Toei has done this with the DBS anime.

>irony the post

How the fuck can't he count to 3? He counted to 50 thousand in one episode.

ITT: Children smarter than DBS-Intelligence Goku

Why not just bring back cell while we're at it?
Raidditz and Nappa while were at it.
Hey I know Tao and Shen

...

>using the garbage manga as evidence

Plus he wasn't even counting to 3 there, he was doing subtraction with his hands.

I brought back Nappa. With a beard, his hair was given back to him in Otherworld, a new outfit, and guns for hands!

>implying

Are you retarded?

The real crime is the character assassination of Videl. Remember how she was the awesome spunky girl? Now she's some submissive traditional Japanese housewife.

You can say that about any of the women of Dragon Ball, except Bulma thank god.

The manga is better than the shit anime.
Atleast Toyotaro didn't turn Goku into a retard like Toei.

I'm currently on the episode of goku looking for friezas ship to flee namek after defeating him.

uncut version of course fuck kai

10/10 would watch

>The real crime is the character assassination of Videl.
No that's still Goku fuck off. Your waifu isn't even that different.

Toei didn't turn Goku into a retard. It's one very specific writer that does that, Yoshitaka Toshio. Everyone else writes Goku properly, especially King Ryu.

Is Bulma the only good female character left of the franchise ?

>muh good old Goku

Thoughts?
youtube.com/watch?v=AsVbubl4abc

>Toei didn't turn Goku into a retard.
Well they hired this guy Yoshitaka Toshio didn't they?

Shueisha also hires people who have done literal fanfiction like Naho Ooishi who made Yaoi hentai and Toyotaro who wrote that garbage AF with Xicor, so I'm not sure what your point here is supposed to be.

what did the artist mean by this?

>Toyotaro who wrote that garbage AF with Xicor

Wait...this exist in more than just some retarded fanart?

I can't stand Super Videl. She went from cute pigtail and short haired tomboy that tried to be helpful and had personality to this weird chinese porcelain doll that you would see in like fucking Silent Hill. Its fucking creepy. Hell I'd rather bring back Tarble than have Super Videl.

Yes, there's a fanmanga called DBAF and it was made by Toyotaro, the same guy who's now drawing the DBS manga.

Toyotaro was hired because he could draw pretty damn close to Toriyama's artstyle, now he's doing storyboards from Toriyama himself. Besides we've all made garbage like AF when we were kids and still do when it comes to Xenoverse.

also Future Mai and Vados

>drawing the DBS manga
>DBS manga
>manga

Dodget a bullet there.

>Naho Ooishi
Don't care she made a what if.

>Toyotaro who wrote that garbage AF with Xicor
Yet he made a vastly superior version of DBS than Toei despite several hanicaps.

>I'm not sure what your point here is supposed to be.
Toei turn Goku into a retard.

If people can recognize your son by his tail, you might be a redneck.
If the officer asks for your ID and you show him the back of your gi, you might be a redneck.
If your child's first fight was with his uncle at a family reunion, you might be a redneck.

The anime fucked with Gokus characterization, which was one of the reasons why Toriyama didn't like the DBZ anime

>Don't care she made a what if.
No, she also drew Yo! Son Goku and his friends return

>Yet he made a vastly superior version of DBS than Toei despite several hanicaps.
They're both shit, don't kid yourself.

>Toei turn Goku into a retard.
So did Toyotaro. It's literally Toriyama's fault if he's a retard in both versions.

>Talking about how his intelligence was flanderized in Super
>Posts a picture from Z to 'prove me wrong'

Guess we know who the retard is now?

And he made of point of praying for Buu's resurrection to create Uubu. When you're dealing with god-eating demons, that's about the same as "sparing" him.

A year after Super ends it will be disregarded as non-canon like GT was. Toriyama having worked on it doesn't change the fact that it's shit, and ruined the franchise. None of the new characters will be remembered as well as the old one. They lack that impact.

>Yo! Son Goku and his friends return
Yeah an adaptation of the anime ova doesn't mean shit.

>They're both shit, don't kid yourself.
To each his own.

>So did Toyotaro.
No he didn't

If you bathe inside of an oil drum, you might be a redneck.

And here is Goku failing to do basic subtraction.

Follow the argument before you jump in retard.

Wrong image

I'm pretty sure Goku said that he could have killed Fat Buu extremely easily while he was in SSJ3, but he wanted to fight.

>retard

Goku is like 45, the last time he did math he was like 15, it was also the first time he learned math.

absolutely haram

He said he could kill Fat Buu, but he wanted the kids to do it because he wasn't going to be around forever.

And look how good that plan worked out.

I just laugh everytime. Everyone laughed the autists who coloured ssj goku different colours. Who knew 2 decades later, they would be correct?

Here is Goku, a fighting genius, failing to understand that Monaka is a fraud even though he just saw him fight and even Hit understood it

>here is Goku failing to do basic subtraction.
We don't know what the full question is dumbass besides he passed. Your argument stupid.

Super will end when Toriyama hates money again

It was a "basic" test just enough to confirm you have the slightest bit of intelligence and he still passed with 50%, the same score as the fucking robot who couldn't even speak and farted mid-fight.

Well Goku did the same thing against Cell and look how that turned out, he died.
Goku isn't the one fighting. All he saw was Monka hit Hit, and then Hit go flying backwards into a wall. Goku has never been all that intelligent. His only real intelligence came when he was fighting personally.

You fuck off it's not a waifu thing. Goku was always a bit of an oaf, they just dialed it up to 11 in Super. Videl's character completely changed.

You guys do know Goku is suppose to be a manchild? That's one of the reasons he still has his kid voice.

>even Hit understood it
After he heard Beerus

>Goku isn't the one fighting. All he saw was Monka hit Hit, and then Hit go flying backwards into a wall. Goku has never been all that intelligent. His only real intelligence came when he was fighting personally.
Bullshit. Goku has always been able to understand how strong someone is just from seeing them fight or sensing their Ki. This is just Toriyama being retarded.

So the manga, unlike the anime, made EVERYONE a retard instead of just Goku, then?

Good to know.

And people defend this garbage.

>It was a "basic" test
Again we don't know what all the questions were.

>who couldn't even speak
So?

>h-he farted so he's retarded GUYS!!!
Really?