Why is early dragonball so much better than post-saiyan saga dragonball?

Why is early dragonball so much better than post-saiyan saga dragonball?

Is Goku having an alien background even canon?

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Dragonball is great because there aren't many THE WORLD IS AT STAKE plots, so there is a lot of room for flexibility and fun, which is what Toriyama is best at.

Whenever I'm discussing anime with coworkers, they always looked like they thought I was out of my mind for preferring DB to DBZ. I still dunno why.

Most long running shounen series like this become shit instead of deciding to not outstay their welcome, Dragon Ball isn't an exception.

Dragon Ball didn't take itself seriously. It was closer to earlier Akira works or Dragon Quest/Chrono Trigger.

In Dragon Ball Z, everyone takes everything like its a life or death situation. So the comedy gets lost. Doesn't help that the only thing holding up the comedy is Goku acting like a kid in a mans body.

They do briefly wonder if Goku's ability to become a giant monkey is because he's some kind of weird space creature.

of course his background is canon. wtf?

It's explained the first episode you idiot, remember the fucking spaceship? Filthy fucking casual

I honestly wonder why Akira Toriyama didn't just make a new series altogether instead of extending off DB. Everything just seems so weird when you look back at it like Goku actually being an alien or Piccolo is not actually the king of demons and is just a random slug alien.

He's made many new series. He's doing one right now called Sandman. Dragon Ball just overtakes them.

>Has only watched Kai
>Calls others casual

I really wish he would get into making more one shots like Jaco and Sandland. They're fun as fuck.

The actual answer is because toriyama changed editors. And they are much more influential that you might think.

>Is Goku having an alien background even canon?
Yes, retard. What the hell's up with that stupid question?

>Doesn't help that the only thing holding up the comedy is Goku acting like a kid in a mans body.
That's not really true, but the general point is correct. Goku's retardation wasn't the main source of comedy in Z by a long shot. Hell, he wasn't even retarded in Z, certainly not like he's in Super.

In Z, he at least knew when to get angry at things. From what I've seen of Super, he's just a retard now.

There is no established canon in Dragon Ball until Toriyama says so.

Why do people who clearly know nothing about Dragon Ball try to have opinions on Dragon Ball?

>everyone can do something useful
(bulma invents, oolong and puar transform, goku and yamatcha fight, etc.
>interesting areas like muscle tower and mushroom forest
>all sorts of weird fighters and monsters like Bacterian and the mutant namekians
>focus on capsules and cool tech
>seeing Japanese legends in characters
>cheerful music
>the strongest person didn't always win and tactics were a key part of winning bouts
>plenty of cool tournaments
>goku was center stage, but there were plenty of other people who could but heads with him
>more antics
>

These were a couple of the factors that made dragon ball better

Because it wasn't being shoehorned into a genre it wasnt and because the creator was having fun making it. Also consider that toryama had something to prove early on, once the money/fans rolled in he didn't have to, hence why he isn't as involved anymore and only does dbz and its spinoffs, the money rolls in while he does nothing but nod or shake his head. Also this: Shits older than it's fanbase by a long shot.

>everyone can do something useful
This stopped when aliens became a thing.
Couldn't agree more with Your points, especially the cool places bit, scenery became scarce once adventuring was replaced with powerlevels. Fighting definitely used to be more dynamic, sad because AT is an ace at fight choreography and drawing it with impact when he tries. You can tell toryama wants to go back to db at times too, making goku a kid again, goten, parts of buu saga, bringing back the pilaf gang for dbs.

Making a new series is risky.

With manga, you can make a best selling hit series but the next manga you make after it can end up being a dud in popularity.

Most noobs are like that

That series has been dead for years.

Because adventure and comedy are more fun than endless brawling/fistfighting.

Because Jump had a cash cow and wanted it milked

...

Wasn't he already rolling in that dr.slump dough though?

>anthropomorphic animals
>monkey/human aliens
toriyama is a fucking furry, he used humans more and more because battle shounen market > furry market

i'd rather have world is at stake or GOOD tournament than shit like frieza coming back and them pretending like its a threat while also admitting he really isn't since even if one saiyan lost, the other could easily beat him AND whis/beerus could crush him if either desired.

As a kid I seriously though that he was another person. I mean they never showed him changing and shit.
He was another person right?

Even in his first appearance it should ahve been pretty obvious when he got nam to pretend to be master roshi. Also i seem to remember him having internal dialogue that was pretty obviously damning.
I also remember him flat out telling tenshinhan why he disguised himself to fight during the 22nd tournament so it had to have been revealed by that point.

And now it is canon.

almost every arc was about the world being at stake, except instead of using brute force the villains needed to use the dragonballs

Super Saiyan was a mistake

>Only moment when Yamcha was useful
; ;

What ever happened to all of master roshi's magic powers?
He used to be able to read minds and shoot lightning and seal piccolos but now he's just the kamehameha man

It turned from a fantasy focused to Acton focused series. Also magic seems pretty useless in DB Verse. Just look at the reality warping Kais and what their power is.

Isn't the problem they're just always an arc behind the main cast in being significant?
Kaioshin was able to restrain a ssj2 gohan if only for a second and was able to interfere with majin buu's attack to save gohan, he was probably cell games vegeta tier in destructive power, though i never understood why kibitokai didn't fight kid buu, they didn't use him against super gotenks buu because he was several orders of magnitude stronger than regular buu and he could always just be absorbed if he isn't significantly stronger, but kid buu should have been much weaker than kibito kai.
I seem to remember him even being confident enough to help against gotenks buu so he must have been powerful, or just really stupid.

Goku is that you?

Yamcha got rused by the Nam thing, but he actually put the (very obvious) pieces together.

Adventuring is fun, battling not so much.

Not until the timeskip between Goku vs Piccolo and Raditz.

Shut up. OP. Goku was an overpowered mess in DB, I don't get wherre the love for DB comes from, it has the same problems as DBZ in the Piccolo arc, which, for some reason, is considered the best of DB. Saiyan-Freeza arc are the best arcs in the manga.

There's this too.

>animefags
It's the same shit, stop being contrarian faggots.

>>everyone can do something useful
Wrong. Everyone is just as useless, the only time where everyone is useful is in the first arc and in the tournament arcs (but obviously everyone has to have SOME screentime in the tournament arcs, but even then, Yamcha loses always in the first round as a measuring stick). In the Red Ribbon Army, only Goku mattered, with some very BRIEF seconds of screentime for Kuririn, Bulma and Roshi. In Baba's tournament, Kuririn and Yamcha jobbed immediately and it was Goku who won the whole thing. In the Piccolo arc, again, only Goku was relevant.

Believe it or not, they're more useful in DBZ. In the Saiyan arc, it was Piccolo who killed Raditz. Kuririn and Gohan held Nappa back until Goku got back and later helped in the fight against Vegeta, with Yajirobe coming through and slicing his tail. In the Namek arc, Goku wasn't even present for 90% of it, it was all Gohan, Kuririn and Vegeta. Same for the Android and Boo arcs, Goku was absent for a majority of those arcs, so I don't see how you can say with a straight face that characters were more useful in DB than they were in DBZ.

>Yamcha jobbed
You can't "job" if you aren't strong.

Yamcha was somewhat strong in the first arc, but then he was left behind after Goku trained with Roshi.

>the Piccolo arc, which, for some reason, is considered the best of DB.
Really? Because the Piccolo Daimao arc is shit, it's just a copy of the fight against tao pai pai

I know, I think it's one of the worst arcs in the series, it's mostly just a rehash of the Red Ribbon Army arc with a lazy, convenient power-up for Goku. But I always see people everywhere, be it here, be it on DB forums, rating it extremely highly.

>the Piccolo arc, which, for some reason, is considered the best of DB
Since when?

>Yamcha was somewhat strong in the first arc
No he wasn't, he got his ass kicked by a weaken Goku.

>Really? Because the Piccolo Daimao arc is shit
>I know, I think it's one of the worst arcs in the series,
Shit taste

You're misremembering. He beat Goku, it was when Goku had his stomach full that he lost.

>You're misremembering.
Nah you are.

This is a win for Yamcha dude.

Not them but i have to agree to a point. I like the Piccolo arc but it has the worst asspull in the series.
There was also Toriyama forgetting that Kinto'un (is that right?) can't be destroyed.

After which Goku came back and did this >he got his ass kicked by a weaken Goku.

>new enemy appears
>kills somebody
>Goku gets angry and fights him
>almost dies
>has to climb a tower
>has to drink magic water for power up
>defeats the bad guy

Oh yeah, I really liked Goku vs Tao Pai Pai, I mean, Piccolo Daimao

It's funny because job is a wrestling term for wrestlers billed as too weak to win. They constantly loose to build up more popular wrestlers' w/l records. They are called jobbers because loosing in literally their job. It has nothing to do with strength.

>Reductive Fallacy (Oversimplification)

>but it has the worst asspull in the series
?

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect
>Want a quick way to show how dangerous one of your unknown characters is? Simple, make them do well or win in a fight with a character that the audience already knows is tough.

Dragon Ball isn't wrestling

Oh you didn't know? The magic god water actually exists and makes you stronger, free power ups doing nothing! I didn't tell before because, stuff, just drink it ok?

>I didn't tell before because, stuff, just drink it ok?
Because it has a great chance of killing whoever drinks it.

Which didn't happen, so I don't see the problem

It's just like Super, Goku getting free power ups doing nothing

You don't see the problem with a chance of dying?

No, what I posted is the last page of the fight, Yamcha won.

Not if nobody ever dies on-screen. If they just tell you every time "oh you can die", then it doesn't matter, it's still an asspull, like SSB Kaioken.

>being this retarded

Not him, but you can clearly see that in this page Bulma woke up, whereas in this page she's still asleep.

>> it's still an asspull, like SSB Kaioken.
What

>Not if nobody ever dies on-screen
Doesn't matter it's still the reason why Karin didn't tell him.

Personally I think DB was better because there was actually room for Goku to improve. You could see him getting measurably stronger over the series instead of just dying his hair a different color every now and again.

Why did they even bother having goku and vegeta do all that training if they were still going to be basically indistinguishably powered from before?
All it did was raise questions about how close they are to the limits of their power and how much of an asspull the next power up will be.

Is anyone else kept awake at night by power level inconsistencies sometimes?
Is that weird?

No

But I do wonder if they bothered to revive the people Nappa killed when he and Vegeta arrived on Earth

Or if the Namekians wished back the village Vegeta killed

so, what will be the new power up that Goku will use to defeat Black?

Black is probably trunks or vegeta's prey.
I can't see him surviving and I cant see goku killing him so goku will probably take the faggot kai.

wut

>He's doing one right now called Sandman
user, I don't know how to tell you this...

Because the tone shifted from adventure to pure battle.
You guys do realize that the entire manga is just called Dragon Ball right?
Are you talking about Sandland? Because that was a one volume mini-series from 16 years ago.
His most recent thing was the Galactic Patrolman Jaco which was also a one volume mini-series and that was back in 2013.

>the strongest person didn't always win and tactics were a key part of winning bouts
Nigga you are literally pulling shit out of your ass.

Literally none of your points are exclusive or accurate.

>There's a giant risk,b-but if you manage to pull through,t-then there's no risk!

Were Neil Gaiman and Toriyama the same person all along? kek

Also
Super Holy Water:
>The journey towards the top of the tower and trying to catch Korin equivalent to rigorous training
>Water itself doesn't do anything
Super Kami Water:
>Water is literally poisonous and tastes like complete shit,will kill you 99.9% of the time
>Goku had to endure an entire day of pain from drinking it,determination made him pull through and he was rewarded with a power up

Different things,user.

Wow, I always like bulma wearing in that in the red ribbon saga.

>You guys do realize that the entire manga is just called Dragon Ball right?

No one cares. There is a significant enough change after the saiyan saga to make distinction between DB and DBZ for conversation sake.

DBZ stars at a time in the manga when Toriyama completely reinvented the characters and dragonball world. You can yell "animefag" all you want, but the series changes tremendously when Radditz arrives and the alien backstory stuff is installed.

This.

The kind of people that say "hurrrff muh whole manga is called Dragon Ball" are probably the same dumb weeaboos that insist on saying the japanese names

>IT'S KURIRIN, NOT KRILLIN!
>MAKANKOSAPPO, NOT SPECIAL BEAM CANNON!

etc.

Kuririn is retarded. But so are "spirit bomb" and Genki-dama. The spics got it right with their objectively best dub

>There is a significant enough change after the saiyan saga to make distinction between DB and DBZ for conversation sake.
The stakes are definitely raised but the Frieza saga still maintained the sense of adventure. People just don't realize Goku was being phased out in favor of Gohan so they complain about the lack of Goku making it seem like filler but it's the last time DB actually feels like an ensemble cast on an adventure. Anyone who bitches about Frieza saga is a contrarian cunt

>There is a significant enough change after the saiyan saga to make distinction between DB and DBZ for conversation sake.
No not really.

>interesting areas like muscle tower and mushroom forest
name some interesting locals in dragonball Z aside from the otherworld filler and arguably namek
>>all sorts of weird fighters and monsters like Bacterian and the mutant namekians
name one villian outside of buu who didn't spam beams
>>focus on capsules and cool tech
how often did we see capsules in dragon ball
>>seeing Japanese legends in characters
name one in dragon ball
>>cheerful music
not so much
>>the strongest person didn't always win
Roshi or Jackie Chun defeated Goku in the first martial arts tournament, Tien defeated goku somehow

Denial. There is an insane drop in quality and you know it.

Should have ended the series after the Picollo saga.

>The spics got it right with their objectively best dub
Explain. If none of the moves were renamed to different types of Mexican foods then I seriously doubt they were superior

>being this retarded
wew

Probably use the button from all-sama and just say that he won't be his friend if black is around.

for original DB (before saiyan-saga), rate these in order and explain why:
-manga
-sub
-dub

1. Sub
2. Manga
3. Dub

Sub does a better job at localizing than Viz's manga translation and the dub imo

Well the only reason Cell had forms is because Toriyama liked each design he did but editors kept telling him to change the look of him.

So he just turned them into forms.