The more research I do, the more I find eating meat to be indefensible. Two simple reasons:

The more research I do, the more I find eating meat to be indefensible. Two simple reasons:

1. I love animals and do not wish to cause suffering
2. I don't have to eat meat

I think I've been duped by a our society and its normalised carnivory. Eating meat in the 1st world is a meme. Eating meat is much like sex and religion in the sense that although there are biological and evolutionary basis for it, they're largely social constructs which can be unlearned. If you're going to eat meat at least understand you're serving a spook (and a poorly argued one at that)

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi
youtu.be/flBqojLpAnI
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I don't care

Then don't eat meat.

In the mean time, I'll appreciate the lower prices due to lower demand.

Just don't force your preference for a meatless life upon me and the rest of society.

I would have said that if I was earlier.

...

Op's beliefs don't change the fact that OP is a meat eating carnivore.

Veal is delicious, faggot

Being a beta herbivore faggot is more indefensible.

Vegan is unethical. Plants feels pain and suffer. They even release chemicals to warn other plants that something bad is coming.


Ethically, the only thing you should eat is fish. Fish don't feel pain, their brains physically lack the ability to feel pain.

You are entirely correct. I know logically, that you are right. And yet somehow I just don't give a shit and eat meat anyway.

Makes me think 'Morality' is actually a bunch of nonsense desu

>Love animals
MORALFAG BTFO

What if I dont love animals? Is it okay to eat them if I hate them?

It's a doggy dog world
Plants are living things too, why do eat them?
Hygiene for the most part is about genociding unwanted microbes, don't they deserve to live?
You have to draw the line somewhere

Most vegetarians and vegans don't.

I was a vegetarian for 7 years, gave it up after a while for health reasons. I never once proselytized, and I can't even fucking tell you how many times people came up to me while I was minding my own fucking business and said shit to me like
>Just don't force your preference for a meatless life upon me and the rest of society
completely unprovoked.

If I had a quarter for every person who told me how intolerant I was for being a vegetarian, when I never said a word about the fact that they ate meat, I legitimately could buy myself a pretty nice steak dinner. Which, yeah, I missed the fuck out of.

It's fine if you eat meat, just let vegetarians and vegans do their thing and shut the fuck up about it. Yes I realize PETA exists but nosy aggressive meat-eaters outnumber their vegetarian counterparts 1000:1.

I don’t mind if you want to eat grass every meal. You do you. but NEVER, EVER even suggest that I should not eat meat. It is my biological human right to be an omnivore.

I love animals and I think it's okay to eat them. However, you have to give them a good life and a humane slaughter.

...

fucking vegans man. this is the end result of gay frog water.

hi leftypol.
disagree with veganism but i reckon we can both agree on the fact that industrialised agriculture is terrible for both animals and the health of the consumer

it's dog eat dog, not doggy dog.

too many of them do

unless you've got your own ranch or a family member that does, you're eating dog food. Have you lost your senses? I stopped eating meat when the smell of ground beef cooking started to smell like burning feces. Half the meat in the stores is spoiled by any decent humans standards. I don't even need to care about the animals anymore not to eat that crap.

I'm not saying that there is no difference between the experience of a good thing and a bad one, I am saying that any 'system' of morality is usually highly arbitrary.

I know this is hardly revolutionary stuff here, but it bears repeating.

Thanks, your post is like a diamond dozen

the only thing worse than industrial agriculture is industrial horticulture
theres some vegan bitch who wrote a book on it or something, go look it up memeflagger

We extend the lives of these animals beyond their natural lifespan. Animals are being treated better and better since a relaxed cow yields better meat.
Without our intervention, the animals wouldn't live that long anyway. So why does it matter? It would either die of disease or by a different animal anyway.

>2. I don't have to eat meat

But you DO have to eat animal proteins. There are essential amino acids that ONLy come from animal protein. Animal based proteins contain all our essential amino acids. Plant-based proteins do not.

If you forgo all animal protein, no you wont notice this year, nor next year. But eventually you will deteriorate. So at least do some eggs and dairy.

Since science knows that humans developed our increased intelligence due to our switch to eating meat, (and particularly cooked meat, easily digestible) Ill keep doing my part to keep the human race smart.

that's kind of dumb because you're implying the produce you get from these stores isn't equally as inferior. thankfully in america we have a free market so you don't have to buy meat or dairy from wal-mart. there are better options.

>duped by a our society and its normalised carnivory

I'm actually swayed by some ethical arguments against mass meat eating, but this anti-science shit in vegetarian/vegan circles is like kryptonite for ever agreeing with you retards.

Eating meat and cooking meat are perhaps the single most important advances humans did. We could get more energy out of every meal and this coincides with a spike in intelligence that leads to technology that leads to community that leads to farming and everything we have.

Our ability to process food more effectively meant we could support our very resource demanding brains and socially it let us have free time and food stores. This in turn leads to everything else.

If you had the sense to just make ethical and sustainable arguments you might sway me. There are big downsides to industrial farming. If we can get artificially grown meat to work out as a meal we've eliminated the ethical concerns AND a huge amount of the sustainability problems.

But once you start talking about vat grown meat you find out most vegans/vegetarians aren't really about ethics, they actually hate technology and are some kind of lefty/luddite "back to nature" granola crunching morons.

Scratch a vegan, find a commie.

Loving animals is a meme, you can be against killing them in brutal ways like halal butchering does, but if you love an entity which doesn't at all contribute to civilization, you're an estrogenic faggot idiot.

As somebody who's done his time on both sides, on average, vegetarians take way more shit than they give. Most just want to mind their own fucking business and never mention their vegetarianism to anybody if they can help it, because they know people won't be able to leave them alone about it.

I am not against meat consumption - for me it was a personal choice - but this just factually wrong. Meat animals are slaughtered well before they reach the end of their natural lifespans, often mere weeks after they're born.

Also, the primary concern of many vegetarians/vegans isn't that the animals are killed, but how they're treated BEFORE being killed.

Unselfish Aryan vegetarians demonstrate their superhuman qualities and racial superiority by caring for the welfare of "all" sentient creatures.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi

A lot of the produce is shit, you're right. Most of it doesn't smell like feces though despite growing in it.

>you can be against killing them in brutal ways like halal butchering does

I can feel the memes already, but halal butchering is bleeding an animal. What do you think hunting does?

I've never met anyone against halal slaughter who is also anti-hunting, so I can only surmise you haven't thought this through.

You also don't know how shitty factory farming is and how ugly and dirty that process is allowed to be. The animals are stressed and aren't slaughtered humanely. The most ethical slaughter you can get is what they call "farm slaughtered" here, where the animals get killed at their home farm in their home environment, not giving them much time to get nervous and upset.

Ideally splattering their brains while they're at peace is as humane as you can get, but you have to be willing to pay a premium for it and most people who have qualms about slaughter and animals don't wanna pay in the end.

>important discovery
Beans.
Humans figured out toxic beans when properly cooked is a abundant source of protein.
This is way more significant than smashing a rat with a rock and eating it.

>Animals don't contribute to civilization

>But once you start talking about vat grown meat you find out most vegans/vegetarians aren't really about ethics, they actually hate technology and are some kind of lefty/luddite "back to nature" granola crunching morons.
Most of the vegetarians that I've talked to, and I'm willing to bet I've talked to more than you, CAN'T FUCKING WAIT for vat-grown meat to be widely available. Objecting to the inhumane conditions in most factory farms doesn't change the fact that meat tastes good.

As regards the health stuff, with modern technology it's perfectly possible to practice veganism with no deficiencies, although you do need to eat supplemented food (which is very widely available). That wouldn't have been possible 100 years ago, but fortunately we don't live 100 years ago.

I guess I'm a vegetarian-lite.
I don't like the industry we've made for brutally killing animals and having them live in shit conditions. I don't mind farms, I don't mind butchers, it's all a part of life. I even worked as a butcher for a few years and enjoyed the work, but not even animals deserve what we're doing to them.

I still eat meat, but only as much as necessary for my diet and I only buy from local butchers and farms. Most of the time when I'm just hungry I'll eat a salad or some fruit. I will not die knowing I supported the disgusting Jewish mechanization of the food industry.

I avoid dairy too just because having a lot of it isn't that good for you.

this isn't true lol you can get complete proteins without eating meat.

youtu.be/flBqojLpAnI

>This is way more significant

No it isn't. Mass protein consumption was how we evolved to were we are now. Hunter gatherers rely on those hunting kills to complement gathering. You still see this in those communities today. They celebrate the kills even to this day.

You can see the fucking cave art glorifying the hunt, not picking beans.

Even after we get to the farming stage meat is a vital resource not easily supplanted by something else. Access to hunting rights remains a royal privilege for the longest time. Poaching is a capital offence almost to modern times. Stealing cattle is too.

Stealing beans not as much.

1. if everyone stopped eating meat and animal products cow pig and other farm animal populations will be decimated.
nobody will continue breeding and caring for them and some might even go extinct as we convert their pastures into farming land.
everyone dies, everything dies, a death by a human is more humane than anything out there in nature.

2. yes you do.

I will eat you when the end times come and you will be weak from not eating meat because you are a vegan faggot

>get stomach surgery
>get most of gut removed
>doctors tell me i have to eat meat with every meal or i die.

Apparently there isnt enough plant protein on earth to keep me going.

Why does it need to be defensible? Are you gonna have a debate with the cow? Just eat it.

If you don't eat mean, you have to take supplements. And babies die if they don't eat meat at all, as their bones can't calcify. We are not herbivores.

Nobody wants to be vegan because vegans are assholes and the entire concept has been hijacked by PETA to push their animal rights agendas.

The Vegan Outreach Program is what most people are exposed to when first introduced to the idea and the flyers they hand out keep insulting the readers and trying to appeal to their guilt because if you've spoken to someone with the same though pattern of a vegan they literally can't help themselves from insulting those they think they're morally superior too whenever given the chance.

Considering the fact that PETA had to found The Vegan Outreach to distance themselves from directly influencing the public speaks volumes about how severely they've already fucked up their own reputation beyond respectability, and currently they're doing the same thing with the idea of Veganism.

it's about nutrient density.
meat is much more nutrient dense than plant matter.
when your stomach is stapled every bite counts as you can only put so much food inside you.
btw how the fuck did you get obese on a vegy diet?

>I'm willing to bet I've talked to more than you

I live in Sweden. You have nothing on me when it comes to talking to witless vegans and lefties.

>CAN'T FUCKING WAIT for vat-grown meat to be widely available

I really doubt you having significant exposure to the vegan/vegetarian community so much so you don't know a cornerstone of their anti-science ways is arguing meat eating gives you cancer and vegan (anorexic level) diets is the healthiest thing you can do.

There are plenty of "fruitarians" that look like fucking Auschwitz people claiming to be the peak of health and they're on high horses saying meat causes obesity.

Again, that you're unaware of the amount of crazy coming from your own supposed camp is evidence of LARPing.

>As regards the health stuff, with modern technology it's perfectly possible to practice veganism with no deficiencies

And here you're starting to wet your toes in that water. Vegetarians struggle to keep their nutrient intakes up, let alone on par with meat eaters. You need to be obsessive about food to keep up and once you get that obsessive you're likely developing eating complexes.

> you do need to eat supplemented food

Most vegans have an aversion to protein powder. I'm not saying it's impossible to do, I'm saying it's fucking hard to do and most vegetarians and especially vegans do not succeed in this. You're really underselling how much work and how much time you need to invest into thinking about and planning and charting your meals to get to where the average meat eater is nutritionally.

But I'm glad you're go for vat grown meat because like I said that's the solution and bridge for people like me on the meat eater side and non-retarded people who went vegetarian.

>hunters couldn't possible aim for the head

hunters don't aim for the head.
you go for lung or heart shot.
they die in seconds.

Every time i see a vegan thread i want shrimp. Why eat part of an animal when i can kill 50?

it seems ruthless to devour other forms of life and live off their resources. but almost all life does this, except for primary producers (plants, algae). it's just the way ecology and biology works.

the primary contradiction of veganism and vegetarianism is that they're still killing and consuming life. the only difference is that they do this with plant life rather than animal life.

and why should plants be inferior, or have less value as a form of life? they are complex life, like animals, just in a different form. the truth is that being an animal, you emotionally relate to animals more, that's why it feels different. but ultimately it's the same thing.

since you must kill and eat to survive, and animals and plants are equally worthy as complex life-forms, there is no reason to exclude meat from your diet.

Ofc you don't need meat, go ahead and stop eating meat. Beta faggots like yourself do not need the meat, the alpha's do. Save the meat for the alpha's, brain and muscles tend to be protein hogs. Also death is still death, whether you kill a plant or an animal,but you are a beta so don't worry your feeble mind about such complex things.

Yes you do, vegetarians arent aware of their privilege and often try to economically shame businesses that don't conform to their shallow world view by signal boosting boycotts of said restaurant and businesses and causing negative news stories to be done on them.

You are a first world babby who will be the first to die in any event of human conflict, your body is adjusted to peace time sedentary conditions much devolved from our prime apex predator evolution.

You are literally a shitty person by scientific standards.

...

>I find eating meat to be indefensible.
Please tell the wolves, lions, eagles, bears, and sharks.
They will give exactly as much of a shit about your opinion as we do.
Kill yourself! It's the only way to ensure you aren't inconveniencing the animals. If you won't kill yourself, you clearly aren't serious about your ideology.

>vegans are assholes
THIS!

>getting old
>you're eating dog food

No, you're just losing your senses. Taste happens to be one of them.

...

wtf are you talking about. I am a food scientist and what you said makes zero sense. Virtually all the meat you buy has passed quality control for both safety and quality. The process has been engineered from the genes of the animals and the composition of their feed, all the way to how it is stored after processing, to be as cheap and tasty as possible. It is an ever expanding field and you are just blowing shit out of your mouth like every other ultra natural idiot. Empirical blind sensory studies show that people actually like corn fed beef and the beef we have better than anything else, and that our process is so optimized that if you change the feed even a little bit you end up fucking up the taste. Yes grass-fed beef is healthier and has omega 3s, but omega 3's spoil faster and people don't like the taste unless they're specifically told they're eating grass fed beef, where in that case their mind tells them that its good and that this is what high quality tastes like. Plus who honestly cares if there is 0.2g more omega 3 that is honestly probably oxidized once you eat it, you get omega 3s from fish which has 20x the amount that grass fed beef has.

We have the highest quality, safest, most tastiest, and enduring food we ever had in the history of man. It has been engineered to be that way, but people then do a 180 and decide that they don't actually like stuff that has been optimized to perfection, and instead like stuff that is not optimized, even though farmers have been trying to get to where we are now for millenium. Then they blame meat for their health problems while they consume HFCS, are obese and have no physical activities. I box, cycle, lift weights, doing a Masters in Food Science, and eat 2-3lbs of meat a day and have perfect biomarkers for health, am crazy fit and have endless energy. Everyone I make eat like me says the same. You're just stupid and uneducated as fuck and trying to act like you can make a statement on quality.

>if everyone stopped eating meat and animal products cow pig and other farm animal populations will be decimated

Good. Animals need to be respected. We should eat less meat, as it comes from suffering. We are not predatory animals without a choice. We cannot even chew and digest raw meat. Fire making is a double edged sword, like all technology.

Vegetarians fuck up parties by having to make different meals. They fart up a nasty storm and make terrible travel partners.

Enjoy the soy then

I'm drunk as all shit right now and fast losing the mental energy to continue this - my bad if I drop out - but :
>I live in Sweden. You have nothing on me when it comes to talking to witless vegans and lefties.
I grew up in San Francisco. Game, set, fucking match. As for my personal credentials, I was a vegetarian for seven fucking years, I do know what I'm talking about here. I have no reason to lie about this, the only reason I'm still talking is residual frustration from being harassed about a personal dietary choice more times than I could count.

>I really doubt you having significant exposure to the vegan/vegetarian community
That's the thing - the vegetarian "community" constitutes a tiny fucking minority of the total vegetarians out there. Most people adopt it as a personal choice and keep quiet about it. Of course if you hold all vegetarians and vegans accountable for the ones who make it a core part of their identity you're going to get the impression that they're all unreasonable militants. They don't represent vegetarians as a collective any more than gay activist caricatures represent all gay people everywhere, which I realize is maybe not the best analogy to be making on Sup Forums, but fuck it.

cont'd

kek

>Vegetarians struggle to keep their nutrient intakes up, let alone on par with meat eaters. You need to be obsessive about food to keep up and once you get that obsessive you're likely developing eating complexes.
>Most vegans have an aversion to protein powder.
It's really not that hard for vegetarians, so long as they're willing to eat plenty of beans and eggs and dairy and aren't squeamish about eating meat substitutes.

Veganism is hard, you'll never hear me argue with that. I would never do it. Still, protein intake isn't the main issue for vegans, again provided they're willing to gobble up beans and soy products - the main issue for vegans is vitamin B12 deficiency. But it's so trivial to find B12 fortified foods these days it's not much of an issue at all.

I'm not saying it makes for a low-maintenance or particularly fun diet, but it's perfectly doable.

Working in meat processing factories put me off eating meat. Absolutely disgusting. I still eat meat occasionally but I'm very careful about where I get it from these days.

I'm literally a servant of the beef industry. My family raises black Angus cattle, and we'd go bankrupt without them. We also grow corn and wheat, but half of that goes to feeding the cows, and our ration of crop production isn't valuable enough to be self-sufficient financially.

>I love animals and do not wish to cause suffering

non-veganism leads to brain damage which explains the antivegan comments
veganism is vastly superior

have you seen "vegan food"? why is it such a massive side splitting joke? Vegans need to fix that, just shut the fuck up with the preaching and learn to cook.

No one wants vegan versions of incredible food raped of all taste. Invent your own cuisine and people will be drafted to your side, for fucks sake it's shit we put in our mouth not a morality test, just make it taste good.

>indefensible

How about I am a predator and fuck you for trying to shame me.

We literally evolved to be as intelligent as we are because we started eating meat. Cooking meat is literally why we invented and used fire. The nutrient density in one deer was enough to feed us for a week, so we would have time to do other stuff then look around for berries 24/7. Eating meat literally gave us the time to do other stuff than forage for food. It also let humans expand their habitable regions across the entire world because they could rely on eating the animals that lived there as a source of food rather than fruit trees. Would never have survived in the colder regions if it weren't for being able eat meat.

I can understand you don't want to eat an animal, but stop parroting such stupid shit from vegan circles. We are omnivores, opportunistic feeders, eating meat allowed us to live in a wide array of environments and spend more time doing creative shit because the nutrient density of meat gave us the time to not look for food all the time.

>feeding cows corn
Kys

Fake study.

You are thinking of a code of ethics not morality moron.

Cool blog, bro

Suffering you say? Plants suffer and feel pain and communicate to other plants when threats are nearby. You need vitamin supplements to make up for your deficiencies unless you consume way more food than the average vegan or vegetarian. Humans were meant to be omnivores with meat providing much of the healthy fats we need. Without it, you are stuck being dependent on a shitton of avocados. Supply and demand economic principles would say that you are setting yourself up for failure in that sense. I said all that to warn you so you know what you are getting into. But if you still want to pursue that path, that is your choice.

That said, don't cause me to stumble and I won't cause you to stumble. That is all.

*corn silage*

Also they eat grass and hay year-round, but the corn is what makes them swole. It also keeps them from starving during the winter.

vegetarians/vegans don't eat vegetables. It's all carbs. chocolate bars, cake, pasta etc.

the fact you have to justify your modernist dietary lifestyle with even this much theory is enough to know its an inferior choice.

i make the same argument about plants to troll vegans and vegan sympathizers.

is the fish thing true? the line "it's okay to eat fish, cus they, don't have any feelings," comes to mind

Ok then enjoy your grass faggot!

this is awesome. reads like pasta, but i think you are real.

t. monsanto

>We literally evolved to be as intelligent as we are because we started eating meat. Cooking meat is literally why we invented and used fire. The nutrient density in one deer was enough to feed us for a week, so we would have time to do other stuff then look around for berries 24/7. Eating meat literally gave us the time to do other stuff than forage for food. It also let humans expand their habitable regions across the entire world because they could rely on eating the animals that lived there as a source of food rather than fruit trees. Would never have survived in the colder regions if it weren't for being able eat meat.
>I can understand you don't want to eat an animal, but stop parroting such stupid shit from vegan circles. We are omnivores, opportunistic feeders, eating meat allowed us to live in a wide array of environments and spend more time doing creative shit because the nutrient density of meat gave us the time to not look for food all the time.

NO! LET US GO BACK! PROGRESS IS A MEME! TURN AWAY FROM CIVILIZATION!

Every vegan who's remotely intelligent acknowledges the fact that it's a lifestyle that's only possible in first world conditions (emphasis on vegans, there are plenty of third-world vegetarians). Who gives a shit? It may go out the window if/when shit hits the fan; the fact that an ethical choice might not be possible tomorrow doesn't mean that it's not an ethical choice NOW.

Obviously nobody is saying that e.g. rural Chinese villagers are shitty people for eating meat when they have no other practical choice.

Main problem with meat is overpopulation that leads to everybody wanting it. Inferior specimens should have been culled already so that we can begin treating non-parasitic animals with dignity as thanks for meat. Killing younger animals is unforgivable and older ones should be allowed to live out a natural lifespan first.