Was Ancient Rome fascist?

Was Ancient Rome fascist?

of course it was what kind of question is this?

Fucking obviously. Any person who would deny that is an out-and-out revisionist.

Right, but why?

Because they used the power of the state to achieve their goals.

Uh no, Facscism came out in the ‘30s

Thanks user

> 30's

/thread
Everyone does this. Are communists fascists too?

Which Rome? Kingdom, Republic, Empire, or (((empire)))

>the state of Rome used the state to achieve it's goals
woah..............

The point is a 20th century ideology.

It was the basis for fascism
>Cult of the leader (whether it is the Consul or the Emperor doesn't matter)
>Massive war/political propaganda, in the case of ancient Rome through ancient sophistry, in modern cases through mass media
>Control/Scrutiny over the private corporations/slave domains for the benefit of the State and its people first, then its owners
>Cult of the army (even among the auxiliaries)
>Cult of civilization/xenophobia
Not that any of those are a bad thing

>captcha: DULAS Roma

It wasn't fascist. But you could call it proto-fascist in a few ways.

Fascism requires aggressive nationalism, oppression of dissenting opinions, and strong central government that also controls industry.

Sometimes Rome was Fascist. Sometimes it wasn’t.

COMMUNISTS AND NAZIS AND ANYONE WHO'S NOT ANCAP IS THE SAME

No they don’t. Almost all countries have constitutions which stop the state from using its full power to do what it wants. And yes, Communism and fascism are basically the exact same thing, far right totalitarianism that likes concentration camps, and far lefty totalitarianism that likes concentration camps.

Under that logic every western democracy is fascist since they are their political power to achieve goals through sanctions ect.

Fascism is a political movement, a reaction to an existing system, a means to establish another form of government so to say.
You can not clearly define fascism, it is always dependent on the current situation.

Both in the Roman Republic and in the Roman Empire fascist traits like could be observed like authoritarianism,
but strictly speaking Rome was not fascist

thog dont caare

Oh man

No and anybody who thinks it was is historically and politically illiterate.
Fascism developed from radical left-wing ideologies like Syndicalism, etc. and was implicitly reliant upon other 19th- and 20th-century ideas and technology such as mass media.

You mean the 30s BC? Just because the term hadn't been invented doesn't mean that the Roman Empire didn't have many aspects consistent with what you call fascism.

You must be a retarded and not know what state power is. Can the US just confiscate citizens property at will? Can it kill citizens it wants without due process? No, because of limits on state power like a constitution. Fucking idiot what do you think is the difference between a totalitarian state and a democratatic one? One has guaranteed rights

That's a pretty stupid question.

>Muh horseshoe
You dor ealize that fascism and communism have a radically different vision of what the world is supposed to be, right?
Beside, it was (arguably) only nationsal socialism that used work camps, while ALL socialist/communist dictatorship used work camps to kill off dissidents.
You're not making any sense.

>this scares the semite

Communism is supposed to be a stateless, classless society where the community owns the means of production. Yet it always devolves to a state where there is a strong centralized government that is oppressive and tells the people what to produce. The one real difference is that fascists let you keep your shit, but then tell you what to do with it, whereas commies take your shit, then tell you what to do with it. Both are collectivist ideologies, and fascism is a response to the failings of communism.

No it’s no you fucking retard. Can people not read on this forum? Every western democracy has a constitution that limits state power, fascists countries don’t burden themselves with that and so there is no limit to state power. How is that so hard to understand you fucking mouth breather?

I have to call bullshit. Just because we didn’t name a concept until later doesn’t mean it didn’t exist prior to that.

Mercantilism is something that was “invented” around the 1500’s, but it explains ancient Carthage, and many other trade empires, pretty much exactly.

>One has guaranteed rights
>guaranteed
No it doesn't, nothing is guaranteed.

All this proves is that Hitler was a cultureless subhuman who larped as a Roman.

>Almost all countries have constitutions which stop the state from using its full power to do what it wants
wat.
it's the people who stop the state from doing absolutely what it wants. reference to a constitution is merely a way to trigger this kind of rebellion. constitutions don't stop shit in countries where people don't care or understand why upholding the constitution is important.

No it was perfect without racist white ass fascist males.

Inevitably, the value of labor falls below the wage at which people are willing to work. Then the government has to step in and force them to work through violence. That’s how Communism works.

Literally though. Straight down to the political ideology.

But who fucking cares about how they view the world, I care about what they actually did. You sound like a commie fag saying “that wasn’t real communism”. The fact of the matter is living in a when the state has power over your everyday life It really doesn’t matter whether you are being propagandized by nationalism or by internationalism, you’re just being used in a meat grinder that is the state.

HOL UP

This.
Rights are a social contracts that the citizenship of the country has died fighting for and is still fighting to preserve to protect social cohesiveness.
It's just a legal social contract, not something inherent to human beings in general; otherwise, I don't think we'd be here chatting about white genocide and muh holocaust.

>Babby's first redpill

Protip: The word "fascist" doesn't actually mean anything, just like "populist" today, you just slap it on your political enemies because it has negative connotations

^This guy has the answer for OP's high school essay prompt

>You must be a retarded and not know what state power is.
>a retarded
guess what ...
>Can the US just confiscate citizens property at will?
sure, e.g. misusing civil forfeiture. or forcing you out of your property via eminent domain or raising property taxes into the stratosphere, driving home the point that you don't own shit, you just rent it from the state and if you can't pay rent, I mean property tax ...
>Can it kill citizens it wants without due process?
Obama droning the shit out of anyone.
>No, because of limits on state power like a constitution. Fucking idiot what do you think is the difference between a totalitarian state and a democratatic one? One has guaranteed rights
you mad. also, totalitarian states do have guaranteed rights and constitutions; it's just that they are bullshit.
begone, statist.

Is water wet?

I think a better question would be 'was America the first fascist nastion'?

< being this retarded.

Are you a B8?

In the beginning it was Rome for Romans any conquered territory was enslaved or forced to move outside of what Rome would declare their main Roman territory.

It wasn't until around the end when Emperors were being replaced like flies and Octavious's welfare system came home to roost that they allowed anyone to join the army for citizenship and became more conservative

Given that a defining feature of fascism is the subjugation of the individual and his rights to the state, nope. We have been becoming more and more fascist lately - Obamacare is a fascist pile of shit - but that is a recent phenomenon.

They were Fascists, and they used to be the greatest nation. Used to be. Romans were literal pioneers of our all modern troubles. Classical Romans willingly intermixed out of existence. Rome allowed scum from Asia Minor, Judea and North Africa to freely travel and settle. You know the drill. The old Mediterranean stock is dead. It's anthropoligal fact. I mean, Romans got B L A C K E D in brothels and watched gory spectacles in the Colosseum. The "barbarians" being savage were a victor's meme. Just like the "muh ebul" Nazis today.

>Ritualistic and very spiritual occasional post-battle cannibalism/head decor innawoods.
>Blood for sport and animal cruelty followed up by some nigger dick in the brothel.

Pic related - more of Roman """""""art"""""""

Quite literally the ancestors of modern Italians

S.P.Q.R.? More like C.U.C.K

Gods Bless Alaric and his struggle

WE

Oh, no, it was real fascism.
And it worked marvelously well, in total contrast with socialist states.
And beside, government control only affects you without problems if you have no means to defend yourself. And guess which types of government :
>Disarmed you individually
>Constricted your ability to relay accurate information through an anonymous/private media
Oh! That's right, it was socialism!
Fascism allowed private news network, nationally and locally, and allowed you to buy firearms to defend against tyranny if need ever be! The only thing it did disallow is defeatism, and that EVERYONE DOES, even democracies. How do you think Britain and France, during both WW1 and WW2 survived without their populations completely rebelling?

i love fascism

Welfare did cause problems.

Rome started having class struggles within 20 years of the founding of the Republic. Eventually they expanded citizenship to all of Italy (a lot of them didn’t like Rome very much), and expanded who could join the military to include the poor.

They lost their Republic because they repeatedly increased the power of the plebeian class over a period of hundreds of years. They organized and weoponized the poor, and people like Caesar took advantage of it.

Why was there open faggotry and pedophilia then?

Another factor was the continuous warfare. Soldiers would be gone for years at a time and would become more loyal to their commander than to the Republic. While Cesar was a prime example of this, the writing on the wall with Marius' Mules.

Republic no Empire yes.

To add:

Early on, it wasn’t the plebs fault. They were falling into debt slavery and needed relief.

>fascism
>far right

pick one. Fascism rejecting private banking, religion, classical economic conservationism. Mussolini and Hitler were simple enlisted soldiers from middle class backgrounds that became leaders of worker's unions. Compare this to the aristocratic Roosevelt and Churchill. They created welfare states that took care of people, specifically working men and their families.

They wanted empires without aristocracy and set up socialists governments. If you were to pick fascist leadership up, put them in a time machine and send them back to the french national assembly, they would sit squarely on the left.

nope, thats why it fell.

you knwo, roman ethiopia wasn't really modern ethiopia

Yep. A lot of those soldiers were willing to fight Rome because they weren’t as connected to it as their predecessors were.

If Caesar had tried to take over 150 years earlier, he would have been asking his soldiers to march into the city and attack their parents and families. But by his time, the legions didn’t have any skin in the game to want to preserve the Republic.

A fucking leaf...

Sorta

What a beautiful work of art, it brings joy to my heart. Can't wait for history to repeat itself.

Which is probably why the founding fathers had a fear of standing armies.

Depends on the time period, but yes. We have the term "fascism" from Ancient Rome.

Kek stay mad

>The word "fascist" doesn't actually mean anything
>you just slap it on your political enemies because it has negative connotations
>has negative connotations

If it has negative connotations, it means something, though as i said, you can't clearly define it.

Rome was not an government obsessed with racial cleanliness
They deliberately brought many barbarian princes and mutts into their administration

It starts with the state being the most important entity. According to Mussolini, everything was to be encompassed by the state. It overshadowed the rights of the individual. Fascism is often a collectivist response to the failings of things like communism. While the line between what constitutes fascism and other forms of governance is blurry, if you start with the subjugation of the rights of the individual to the state, you just might be fascist.

Daily reminder:

communism looks real comfy tbqh.

No, fascism requires liberalism to form beforehand.

The Romans had serfs, slaves, and hereditary determination so it was more traditionalist than fascist. The citizens would have to be more free and dignified for it to be fascism.

...

>Massive war/political propaganda, in the case of ancient Rome through ancient sophistry, in modern cases through mass media

they didnt need military propaganda, the soldiers wanted to go to war because their was wealth to be gained. The only time they voted not to was for a war in hispania because they thought it would be 1. too dangerous and 2. not wealth enough

>Mfw niggers call the roman salute le evil nazi kkk hate symbol

The only correct answer ITT

>Fascism developed from radical left-wing ideologies like Syndicalism, etc. and was implicitly reliant upon other 19th- and 20th-century ideas and technology such as mass media.

This is correct.

Linguistics lvl 0.

Lurk more noob.

Talk about human hindsight skewing arguments.

In normal social conditions they're guaranteed as long as the state can function.

Now, war time? Different.

Being an utter sophist offers no insight into this discussion is anti-intellectual

>(((empire)))
What did you mean by this?

>Can it kill citizens it wants without due process?

Achtually, Obama made that possible :DDD

Is that action what has set (((them))) against us for the last two thousand years?

They were Imperialist, but a lot of fascist ideals I imagine come from roman government.

What baffles me is that fascists never use it as an example of an ideal state.

It did not have the socialist component until late in the empire, but it had all the fascist elements that a Hoppian libertarian would find acceptable.

SPQR - for the senate and people of Rome.

Yes they were nationalists and fascists. So what? Everything you read about fascism is written by kikes and women. Fascism empowers the nation. There's no difference between fascism and being a fan of your hometown team.

Liberals are the types of faggots who would cheer for the away team.

In SOME cases, say high school nogs from juvvie whose parents died of AIDS in a crack house... I'd cheer for them IN ADDITION to cheering for my team, but never to the detriment of my team and never with the thought of wanting the away team to win. (I.e. send agricultural engineers to nigland, but don't send $ because it factually hurts them and it's just virtue signaling bullshit)

Libshits cheer against their home team because compared to true Americans, they're garbage.

IQ is higher in red states.
The majority of people making more than 35k/yr are republicans.
Midwest has the highest productivity per hour
Midwest has most productive hours in a week
A farmer nets $70K/yr by managing hundreds of thousands of dollars in income and expenses, and the libshit barista in CA who blows 2 week's wages on the new iPhone thinks they know more about economics because they took a semester of it in college

It's no wonder libshits want globalism - they're not up to the task of being American.

What the fuck...
>Flag
Checks out.

Globalism being the antithesis of fascism - libshits need an end to fascism because a true American fascist is a fucking demigod by comparison.

Wtf google?

no but think about it. Having adventures there would be super fucking comfy. It looks like a post fallout scenario. Also the colour gray is ingrained in my brain as comfy because of the weather.

>IQ higher in red states
Source? I live in NY and would LOVE to BTFO my libcuck associates...

The Empire after Constantine converted himself and Rome to the newest subsect of Judaism coming straight out of Israel because he wanted to avoid punishment in the afterlife. This subsect of Judaism is now known as Christianity

>Adventure
>Comfy
Stop playing video games user.

Not even when they were an empire.

>ITT faggots who dont know anything about fascism

Hmm well without the senate it wouldve been more of a dictatorship, with the senate arguably a democracy based on the class system. Plebs had little to no say.

Man I really want to live in United States.

Currently reading Tocqueville DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA. Great work.

Pretty much every day in Canada is gray and there's nothing comfy about it.

Rome as a republic or an empire?

>low-hanging fruit
>sage

This, but Rome was still fascist. But no one here knows what they're talking about.

First of all, fascism and national socialism are used interchangeably all the time here but they are entirely different. Fascism is the process of turning every facet of a nation or state towards the goal of increasing state power. That's it, every citizen and resource exists exclusively to increase state power in the most efficient way possible.

National socialism uses state power not as an end but as a means to achieve cultural dominance and happiness of the individual/community. The end goal is different; its not just an omnipotent state but the actual happiness of the citizens within it being achieved.

To this end, I would say Rome wasn't really either definition.

I agree with you, but I dont see fascism as a response to the failings, but merely the "alternative" socialist ideology of europe. Both can kick rocks desu, atleast in the US we need to get back to state power, the federal government fucks everything.

>this thread
>the amount of people on Sup Forums that don't know what fascism is
>50 different definitions
This board is irredeemable at this point with the amount of trash that came here
>some people actually think it has anything to do with race
Lmao

>moor
>black
I wish this historical falsity would just die. Moors closer resembled Berbers and are of Arab mixture. Nubians we black.

But nah, wez gotta be dem moorz