Why not live by the morals which Europeans (and their descendants around the world) have lived by for CENTURIES? The morals which allowed us to conquer the entire planet?
My grandparents were Christians - they actively believed (not massively strongly, they weren't crazy about it, but they still believed in God).
Do I believe there's a God? There could be. Who am I to say there isn't? Have you seen how complex the universe is? Maybe there is a supernatural force behind it all?
But really, like I say, the most important thing is that this is the moral system of my ANCESTORS. If I want to honour them, and do right by them, then I should follow Christianity - or at least have an appreciation of it.
I'm not going to be some devout person. I probably won't even go to church. Unless I really want to. But I definitely want to appreciate Christianity more. And I will describe myself as a Christian - because YOU are the one who defines yourself, not anybody else. And fuck anybody who tries to define you.
That's a good start OP, but you should really look into the philosophical arguments for theism as well as the Christian God in particular, and also the historicity of the gospels.
I think you'll find that there is sufficient reason to believe.
I'm a philosophy graduate and I did religious studies at school - I've looked at philosophical arguments for God quite a lot
But like I say that doesn't really matter to me so much. Maybe a lot of Christians will say I'm not allowed to call myself Christian then. Eh, okay.
I guess instead I just want to appreciate the life lessons which my ancestors used which helped them - and I know for a fact that my grandparents did take moral lessons from the Bible. They were probably taught all that stuff at school I guess, more than we are now.
Stories like Job, of course. And other such things. These life lessons have helped Europeans become the most successful culture on the planet, basically. So surely it is worth appreciating this stuff.
Jack Nguyen
Also by the way I am OP, I just switched from a mobile connection to broadband, hence the ID change
Give me a TLDR
People who say "Christianity is Jewish" are the biggest morons on the entire planet
Christianity is literally the repudiation of Judaism. That's why Jews killed Jesus, they hated him.
In Europe, Christians persecuted Jews for centuries - ever heard of pogroms? And Jews hated Christians in return - hence "goyim" and "gentiles".
So you literally couldn't be more stupid. Judaism is Jewish. Christianity is the repudiation of Judaism, which is why Jews fucking hate it. Christianity was used to oppress them for centuries.
Luke Green
If you want a European basis for morality, turn to the works of Plato and Aristotle, or some other Classical texts. Don't just give up on reason and run with hebrew mythology.
Dominic Morgan
>Jesus was a jew >all of the early Christians were jews you're not fooling me rabbi.
I read The Republic when I was a teenager, it was okay. Bit long-winded.
Aristotle is a meme, I just never got into that guy. Could never be bothered with him. I only read about a philosopher if they have ideas which interest me, and I've never seen any such ideas when I was forced to study Aristotle.
>hebrew mythology Except Christianity is literally the repudiation of Judaism.
Also if I had to pick a favourite moral philosopher, I would pick Thomas Hobbes, who correctly said that morality is just a social contract. We only take part in morality because it mutually benefits us. (He's not even really considered a moral philosopher, instead a political philosopher, but still, I feel like the point about the social contract is relevant to the underlying basis of morality to be honest.)
Benjamin Moore
This. Why not just go straight to the philosophy and morals? Religion seems like an unnecessary middle man with too much historical and cultural baggage to be as efficient
Brody Fisher
>Give me a TLDR
David is upset to live in an era where everyone is expected to work it out for themselves, given that no one has made a strong enough case to reach a consensus, and is nostalgic for a time when people could reasonably just rely on their culture and community.
Anthony Allen
Only someone who is operating from materialist assumptions would dismiss Christianity on the grounds that it;s found was a Jew.
If Christianity genuinely reflects the divine order than it's ethnic roots are utterly irrelevant. If it does not reflect the divine order, than it is useless regardless of it's ethnic root.
tldr; anyone who uses >le kike on stick is a materialist who shouldn't be commenting on religious matters in the first place.
Connor Sullivan
1) Jesus created something which broke from Judaism, which is why all the Jews hated him. 2) Christianity is literally the religion of Europe. 3) Christians persecuted Jews for centuries. Because guess what - Christians weren't Jews.
I don't know what else you want. It seems you're just deliberately being contrarian, which is really not surprising on Sup Forums.
Parker Thomas
Why did God give me the ability to question his existence?
Josiah Peterson
Because deciding to worship him of your own free will is far more significant than just taking it for granted.
Liam Perry
Man is not a creature who lives and accords with just abstract things like philosophy and morals, but also with narratives, ritual and persons.
Camden Hill
I did a philosophy degree so believe me, I've spend A LOT of time reading about moral philosophy.
And it's all just empty GARBAGE to be honest. It's just wankers giving their own opinions on what they think is moral. I don't give a fuck about any of it. Apart from Thomas Hobbes who I think is a genius.
Religion is what created European culture (and your culture too, over there in the "new world"), and thus I think it's a travesty that we're not taught more about it at school. Our grandparents were raised on this stuff, it's how society operated back then. Christianity is what drove European civilisation forward for hundreds of years - they lived and breathed it. The Book of Job taught them to persevere in the face of adversity, for instance. And I'm sure there are tons of other great lessons from the Bible, although I'm not massively familiar with the whole thing.
I'm not saying you should accept everything that other people tell you - not for a second. Never accept anything uncritically. Question everything. And make your own mind up about what you want to believe.
I just personally want to understand Christianity better I guess, because like I say, it formed the basis of our society and morals and culture for so long, and it inspired OUR ANCESTORS to live life to the fullest. I feel like society today is actually a bit empty with this spiritual soul having been ripped out of it. Spirituality of some kind is probably important.
I guess individualism has benefits and drawbacks. The benefit is that you're given absolute freedom. A drawback is that you're on your own.
I think we do still form cultures and consensuses though. Look at nerd culture. There's all sorts of little cultures which exist in society these days. Each industry has its own little culture. So cultures and consensuses do still exist.
Isaiah Phillips
I'm OP and I am a materialist.
I also don't like "le kike on a stick" people, but for a different reason. The reason being that Christianity is the repudiation of Judaism, and Jews and Christians have quarrelled and fought for centuries. Christians persecuted Jews and committed pogroms against them. Only an idiot would believe that Christians are Jews.
But anyway - to me I am not really concerned whether the teachings of Christianity "reflect the divine order" or not. That doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that Christianity was an integral and very important part of European culture, which became the most dominant culture on the planet. So even if Christianity isn't entirely literally true (do I believe the Earth was literally created in seven days? No I guess I don't, since I do believe in science that the Earth is 4 billion years old), I do think it has valuable moral lessons. And I will never disparage someone who is a Christian. I think it is a great thing. It's the ideology by which our ancestors flourished, and we should always hold it in high regard. Without Christianity, none of us would be here. It is what inspired our ancestors to reach for the heavens, to build the most ornate churches, to write the most amazing songs, and to persevere in the face of adversity. That's why I think it has value.
Jose Hall
>So cultures and consensuses do still exist
I think it would be healthier to take the structure of the universe for granted than to take mecha vs. moe for granted.
Brandon Torres
This is true really. A lot of philosophy is just absolute bollocks. It's just people trying to compete for some perfect definition of shit.
Most people don't care about perfect definitions, they just don't. But people do care about narratives and stories, it really interests people a lot. And yes, stories are great. They can teach us a lot.
Stories of people doing great things inspire us to do great things ourselves, for instance.
Easton Turner
We need a new paganism
Ryder Moore
Christianity both repudiates Judaism and is a kind of Judaism(broadly speaking). Christianity sharing things with the Jews, ethical monotheism, much of the old testament.
The Christian view of Judaism being that it is incomplete and somewhat corrupted on account of the Jew's traditions.
Incomplete in the sense that there is an incomplete view of the afterlife/salvation, no proper means to salvation, and that is a religion particular to an ethnic group the Jews, with a law made just for them.
Imperfect in that allowances have been made for them in the law of Moses, like polygamy. And that there oral traditions and their Talmud expand on the law and corrupt it.
Cooper Garcia
Free-will.
We're not slaves.
Bentley Ramirez
free will and slavery are not mutually exclusive
Jacob Cook
I don't understand what this means
Believe whatever you want to believe - hell, found a religious movement if you want to
I'm just making the point that Christianity was the religion of our ancestors and it's what drove our culture forward - it's what inspired our ancestors to succeed in life. And therefore I think it is worth understanding.
Also, I see all these Christians on Twitter who support Trump, and so I think "these people are cool, they have good solid honest family morals". And also, they are clearly far more content and happy with their lives than millennials my age are - everyone my age is just unhappy and depressed, they have no meaning in their lives apart from materialism. This is why I think it's important to appreciate Christianity.
Jace Carter
I looked into that. Worked though Nietzsche, Heidegger, etc before studying the traditionalists, and finally ended with Girard. The further I go the more I realize that Christianity is the truth. The Alt-Right and the SJWs both want to go to a place before and after Christianity respectively, but those paths only lead to destruction
"Cochba [bar Kochba] ... tortured and killed the Christians who refused to aid him against the Roman army." - p. 42, Greek Apologists of the Second Century, Robert M. Grant, The Westminster Press, 1988.
"Another Christian apologist, Justin [Martyr], tells how ... Bar Kochba, the leader of the insurrection, ordered Christians alone to be executed if they would not deny and curse Jesus the Messiah." - Ibid.
Ok listen, you're on the right track, but nut up and OWN IT.
Don't be scared to idenitfy as Christian.
Evan Turner
Indeed.
The Jews have corrupted their own religion with their tradition, and even then proper Judaism is imperfect.
The Torah is fulfilled and realized in the person of Jesus Christ.
Elijah Jones
>Why not live by the morals which Europeans (and their descendants around the world) have lived by for CENTURIES? The morals which allowed us to conquer the entire planet? Europeans lived by pagan morals. Warfare, genocide, conquest, honor. Those are pagan, not Christian. Christianity is a left wing cancer.
Camden Sullivan
>The Torah is fulfilled and realized in the person of Jesus Christ. AMEN
Brandon White
Christian Europe brought us:
>The Renaissance >The Enlightenment >Isaac Newton >Charles Darwin >Colonisation of the entire world >America as a country
Sure I think Newton and Darwin were not really Christian - but it doesn't matter. Christianity created a culture that was the best on Earth. Western science stemmed from "natural philosophy" which was first pursued by Christian theologians (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Renee Descartes, people like that).
You're such a fucking moron. Without Christianity your country wouldn't exist, and you wouldn't exist. Just kill yourself right now.
>The morals which allowed us to conquer the entire planet? christcucks and their nonsense threads.. sad!
Lucas Harris
If you don't actually believe in Christ you will never actually be a Christian. That is the foundation that everything else is built on.
Isaiah Walker
Cheked and keked. God works wonders. Even on an autustic friend simulator.
Caleb Myers
Sorry I forgot Denmark never conquered the world. I guess I should have restricted it to WESTERN Europeans - although notable mention goes to Russia.
I don't think matters. What matters is understanding the VALUES that our ancestors held. And appreciating Christianity, for all of the fantastic art, architecture, and music that it inspired.
Obviously science has revealed to us many things now that our ancestors didn't know about, and we shouldn't abandon any of that.
But we should appreciate the values that allowed our ancestors to prosper. We should understand where we came from.
Jose James
...
Jeremiah Torres
Can you provide me sources that prove Jesus was of the same ethnicity of the Jews?
Ayden Johnson
>Sorry I forgot Denmark never conquered the world. I guess I should have restricted it to WESTERN Europeans - although notable mention goes to Russia.
Damn! England bringing the bants lol
Ryder Peterson
How is Christianity a form of Judaism
Chase Bell
It is literally messianic judaism
Samuel Gray
>I don't think it matters Then you don't understand how it works.
John 14:5-7 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Levi Powell
>The Renaissance This was a revival of classicism though. It was a resurgence of paganism over christianity.
>The Enlightenment Cancer
>Isaac Newton Newton was an occultist, not a Christian.
>Charles Darwin Granted.
>Colonisation of the entire world Jews did that, not christianity.
Because it accepts the fundamentals of Judaism, it just breaks off on account of the belief in a new revelation that brings a new covenant that supersedes the old on the basis of the God man Jesus Christ.
Noah Bell
Mate we live in the 21st Century now. We don't need to take the Bible literally anymore.
Nicholas Phillips
No. If you have good genes and a good family, you don't need God to follow the code of the righteous.
I don't believe in God, but I understand not everyone has what I have, so I'm fine with Christians.
Oliver Lopez
1. we conquered you several times 2. you are showing a map with a Danish colony 3. Britain bought colonies from Denmark 4. Russia was founded by Vikings
Isaac Bell
The Bible. It is a key part of prophecy that he would be born as a descendent of David to the tribe of Judah.
Oliver Hernandez
>I'm not going to be some devout person. I probably won't even go to church
the absolute state of bongistan
Logan Gray
Checked. Amen, OP! Christ is the light and the truth of this world. Christ is the path and our lantern in the darkness.
Blake Morris
>And everybody needs morals to live by I prefer the nationalist morality
Connor Kelly
~To all Newfags~ This board has been infested by a cabal of mentally insane religious fanatics who are seeking to convert people.
They are using whatever tactics they can think of to do it. OP post is one of them, pretending to have gone through a "conversion", hoping to inspire other people here to follow suit. They'll even pretend to agree with some of your precepts, such as racial redpills, in order to gain your trust and successfully convert you.
These people do not represent the majority on Sup Forums and certainly not on Sup Forums. Most of them are over the age of 50, have seriously fucked up personal lives, and believe in a bunch of retarded bullshit with fanatical zeal. You'll see them routinely making threads attacking the validity of Evolution, or quoting long passages from the Bible in long nonsensical rants
Sup Forums has always made fun of religious people. And not just any religious people, but these specific superbelievers who get high off their own farts This is how these people should be treated:
If you want to pay lip service to a false god maybe you should become a Catholic instead.
Dylan Scott
>It was a resurgence of paganism over christianity. Do you realise how much of an idiot you are?
>Jews colonised the world AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You're not even worth my time.
Nathan Fisher
WE TAKIN OVER THIS BOARD FEDORA BOI AND THERE AINT NUTHIN YOU CAN DO ABOUT DAT
Angel White
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no kid, some people from your country came here. They only ever ruled a part of England, and they were defeated by the Anglo-Saxons.
Wow, you colonised a sheet of ice? Very impressive.
Anyway, we're getting distracted from the point here. Christianity is what caused Europe to flourish into the best civilisation that has ever been known. And this civilisation conquered the planet.
Bentley Peterson
Um. Idk if it's all that. If there's one thing the past few decades has taught us is that atheism does not work.
Ethan Hill
It's not really important is it, let's be honest
I think there is much of value to be learned from the teachings of Jesus, yes
Nations change over time
Faggot. Also I'm in my 20s you fucking idiot. And ad hominem is not an argument.
Catholics are faggots, picture related
Carter Perez
Also, I have said in this thread multiple times I don't care what you believe, and I've also said I don't even think it's important whether God exists or not
So I'm not trying to convert you - cool your tits
I'm just saying we should appreciate our ancestors
Literally fucking this. It just results in zombies who are slaves to commercialism, and have no purpose in life.
Hudson Fisher
Pic related is due to a different soteriological mindset that isn't reducible to values, which is what user was telling you. You don't have to be literal in your faith, if you don't want to, but please try to understand the underlying psychology that gave rise to the civilization you love. I attempt a secular explanation in the guide for atheists you can find by following the first link in my previous reply to you.
Sebastian Lewis
...
Jaxon Bennett
Also note it's an experiential guide. It makes more sense if you follow the instructions. You are free to ignore them, of course.
Brayden Jones
Maybe I shouldn't disparage Catholics because they've done some pretty cool things
But I just find it interesting that basically ALL of the most developed countries in the world are Protestant (or were historically dominated by Protestants even if they don't have a Protestant majority anymore, due to secularism - this includes Germany, Canada and Switzerland), or were Protestant colonies (Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong - and you could perhaps even say South Korea, Israel, and Japan as well, since each of those countries had massive assistance from the United States).
But Catholics obviously do have some pretty advanced countries - France, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, etc.
But I do find it interesting none of those countries (especially France which is pretty advanced) appear that high on the development index.
But then again Catholic countries might well appear higher on rankings of happiness? Catholics tend to be pretty happy, they enjoy life, whereas the whole Protestant ethic is to put your nose to the grindstone and get working. But perhaps that makes us less happy.
Jeremiah Foster
Read pic related for more on that if you haven't.
Ayden Gomez
Interesting, just had a read about it on Wikipedia
Gavin Ross
Weber's clear writing style and erudition are delightful.
Before I go, lemme be annoying one last time and suggest you take the soteriology seriously even if you don't subscribe to it. It's the system by which the values you mentioned are implemented. Think of sin as actions and habits that redirect our energy to unproductive or destructive bullshit. Then observe how different denominations approach overcoming it based on Scripture. It can improve your life even if you interpret it figuratively, as you would any other ancient narrative.
