> Nick Fuentes > well-spoken, ambitious, 18-year-old youtuber > attends Charlottesville, flees antifa in terror > forced to drop out of college > loses potential conservative activist job > moves back into his parents' basement > gains some noteriety when he partners with Chad Nationalist James Allsup > suddenly starts publicly countersignaling every major IRL alt-right activist > repeates tired optics debate that have been ongoing for decades as if he has discovered something new - even some accept his criticism and attempt to improve > burns bridges with everyone in the alt-right while Allsup makes connections with major figures in the movement > suddenly Fuentes claims he isn't alt-right, comes up with brilliant plan to just join the Republican party > finally gets the chance to appear with alt-right heavyweight Richard Spencer and promtly gets BTFO on his absurd papism, foreign policy naivite, and utter lack of life experience > can't keep up with Spencer and Allsup, barely speaks on his own show > now he's basically just another irrelevant youtuber in his parents' basement with no friends, allies, or job prospects
Listening to the podcast right now. When is the optics part?
Jack King
Starts around the 2hr mark. Fuentes is a good debator but he doesn't have Spencer's experience with media, organizing, and IRL activism, so he gets utterly BTFO in the optics debate. He comes off like a JWOKE Boomer patriotard in a 18-year-old's body.
Brayden Baker
...
Caleb Ross
Don't know why people doubt Spencer so much. He knows what he's talking about.
Kevin Powell
Only kikes are against Fuentes. I'm listening to the podcast with Spencer right now and they're having a very fruitful conversation. Spencer clearly respects Fuentes, there is no bad blood here.
Matthew Bell
Yeah, honestly Fuentes really shows his age. He asks questions that Spencer has repeatedly answered repeatedly in his interviews/speeches, and then tries to get Spencer to respond to various strawmen of more cringe-worthy figures on the alt-right.
Spencer has a BA in Literature from UVA and an MA from the University of Chicago. Fuentes was good at Model UN in high school. They aren't even close to each other intellectually, and Fuentes' autistic screeching about people with far more experience and stake in the game got old very quickly.
Blake Hall
> Only kikes are against Fuentes
Fuentes is universally reviled in activist circles because he publicly criticizes them for minor things (like suits not fitting right) as they put their lives and livilihoods on the line.
I enjoyed his show for a while, but he needs to know his place and (more importantly) put his money where his mouth is before he starts lighting people up online when IRL activism is the most important thing in the movement.
Carson Hall
...
Gabriel Lopez
If you hate Fuentes, its most likely because you are fat, a communist, disheveled/degenerate looking, or just retarded. Fuentes is obviously respected in the Alt-Right, even though he counter-signals, guys like Enoch, Richard, and Eli all desperately try to get him to join their side on the optics debate
Jack Morales
okay, after seeing the connotation with this image, I will now start saging, this is obviously a leftist shill thread. Fuentes supports white nationalism and makes it clear, in this mentioned video (that faggot OP wants to give a misleading image on), Fuentes clearly states although Bannon is a civnat cuck, he is still fighting for things like the Diversity Lottery Ban, and DACA repeal.
OP is nothing but an antifa fag, afraid that Fuentes will be the future of the alt-right and convert millions to our side. Rock yourself, you cuckold.
Camden Murphy
>Fuentes is universally reviled in activist circles This is bullshit. Even Spencer and Enoch feels the need to talk to him as equals. >as they put their lives and livilihoods on the line. Good intentions do not mean anything. Politics is a game. If you play the game wrongly you're out of the game, no matter how good your intentions are.
Xavier Lee
LARPer faggots need to go, though.
Joshua Carter
Fuentes will have to leave his basement and know the love a woman (there is unironically a 100% chance that he is a virgin) before he can lead anyone.
I'm not a leftist, I'm just someone who recognizes that IRL alt-right activists need our support. Fuentes criticizes them while sitting comfortably in his wealthy parents' basement. He has no vision beyond a slightly more risque version of neoconservatism. He can't debate Spencer's points, so he makes the ridiculous (leftist) talking point that all alt-right activists really want is to LARP the Turner Diaries.
That's why even James is turning on Nick by the end of the show - Nick has no life experience, but pretends like he has the only answers to these long-debated issues. His plans have been tried - and failed.
Sebastian Nguyen
> talk to him as equals > Spencer repeatedly bantes him about his age and accuses him (correctly) of arging in bad faith
Elijah Edwards
Everyone agrees with this. IE was created entirely to solve the optics problem of WN 1.0. They might not do everything perfectly, but they deserve better than getting called "faggots" for risking themselves by someone who isn't risking anything substantive. Movements like IE are the only future our movement has (Sup Forums will be banned in the next 10 years and alt-right activism will be illegal hate speech in 20), we need to support them or at least awful helpful criticism.
There are too many Youtube vloggers and not enough IRL activists. Until Fuentes starts doing something meaningful, he should keep his opinions to himself - or at least express them privately.
Ian James
Besides that, they recognize that he is so sharp that they can't just ignore him. Because part of the TRS crowd is starting to go to his side on this matter.
Noah Flores
This.
IE also recently ditched their white polo and khakis look in favour of something similar to Generation Identity. If anyone knows about optics, it's them.
Asher Parker
>Chad Nationalist James Allsup
How is this guy a Chad? He's average.
Cooper Lewis
He's sharp but he's everything wrong with the movement - snappy rhetoric, social autism, and an utter lack of vision.
Again, we need IRL activists far more than we need youtube eclebs. Fuentes should take action or stay in his lane
Colton Gray
>snappy rhetoric, social autism, and an utter lack of vision.
Are you fucking kidding? Fuentes is the one who has vision. TRS NEETs have zero vision. Fuentes has vision on how to subvert the GOP without cucking.
Gabriel Taylor
BASED spencie giving kids the business since 20XX.
Dominic Rodriguez
Ah yes, his grand "vision" of trying to recreate the Tea Party movement and returning to 1950s Americana (which failed). If you think "subverting" the GOP is going to matter when the US is 45% white, Texas is blue, and the Democrats are importing new voters by the millions then you're kidding yourself. Taking local GOP positions is a temporary solution at best - one that has been tried and failed before.
White identitarianism like that advocated for by Spencer is the only way we preserve the movement into the future. The Republican Party is a useful stopgap in the very short term, but ultimately they are a sinking ship.
> muh TRS neets
It's funny that this strawman keeps being mentioned when Nick is literally a NEET virgin who lives in his parents' basement
> Fuentes has vision on how to subvert the GOP without cucking.
Lots of people have had the same "vision." What has Fuentes actually done IRL? Can you name a single thing? He got thrown out of IE, the MAGA Meetups, and the Republican Party because he's an arrogant autist.
Isaac Lee
>Fuentes is a good debator but he doesn't have Spencer's experience with media, organizing, and IRL activism
Yeah, I'm sure the fact that Spencer's events ALWAYS ends with one or more of his followers getting arrested is not suspicious at all.
>opticscuck
Optics ARE important, all the retarded fat nazi LARPers only get in the way of the message. And this isn't new, this debate has been going on even since the days of Rockwell and Dr. Pierce.
Aiden Richardson
> Spencer shouldn't speak IRL (which gets global headlines and funnels the people we want to recruit to his actual message) because some people Spencer never met before, who aren't members of any organized groups, and who are actually disobeying Spencer's instructions, engage in violence with counterprotestors
Yeah, stay cucking. If you want the alt-right to stay a series of Youtube channels waiting to be banned, stick with Nick. Spencer has great optics. IE's optics are improving as the organization professionalizes. A virgin NEET taking pot-shots from the cheap seats is not good optics.
Josiah Foster
Isn't he a spic? Who cares what he says.
Mason Lee
>If you think "subverting" the GOP is going to matter when the US is 45% white, Texas is blue, and the Democrats are importing new voters by the millions then you're kidding yourself. Jesus, did you even listen to the Fuentes/Spencer debate? They talked about this exact thing.
William Thomas
I did listen to it. Fuentes couldn't respond to Spencer's point about the importance of metapolitics so he just autistically schreeched about the Turner Diaries - even Allsup called him out on his autism by the end. Fuentes has no plan beyond trying to recreate something that failed. Spencer wants to build something new and beautiful.
Lucas Gonzalez
If he is legit, he should go to SPLC like the Emperor going to Canossa, "recant" his racism, become an anti-racist activist and collect intelligence on where every SPLC employee lives and leak it so one day revolutionaries can execute every single jew fuck or cuck that works for the cathedral.
Aaron Flores
Eh, we need to make allowances for somewhat mixed people in the movement. Allsup is like 10% Filipino or something. Not a big deal when the population is 90%+ white. All non-European genetics will be unnoticable in a few generations.
Tyler Peterson
I'm not saying Fuentes won the debate. I'm saying they have fundamentally different gameplans.
Spencer doesn't want to come fully behind people like Nehlen even though in Fuentes' world that would be a victory. It's a difference on what they believe will happen in the next 5 years.
Colton Lopez
>pride comes before the fall
Pride GOES before the fall you inbred piece of shit
Noah Cruz
Fuentes did nothing wrong, spencer is a fag, larping as nazis is not a good idea
Nathan Cook
>Have blue collar Catholics from Wisconsin had much influence over policy
Considering that people like them finally realized they're the difference between whether a Democrat or Republican in the White House, the plant Spencer is wrong as usual.
Kayden Campbell
You can't be serious, his optics are so bad I had to leave the movement because it was no longer plausibly deniable that it was a white supremacy movement. I mean, I support him, but I won't be caught dead doing a hail or carrying around a torch. Jesus, the Alt Right has some major PR problems. Drop the Nazi shit. Not even most of the far right is ok with it and we need our cause to be growing.
We need Voter ID's, we need to make willful segregation possible and legal. We need whites added to protected groups ( "Whites Need Not Apply" Needs to be as punishable under the law as the opposite.) Whites are a group, we deserve representation as a group. We have the right to advocate for our self interest.
These aren't things we want, these are things whites NEED because we are about to become
Colton Campbell
your gay nazi rallies are dumb and do nothing to help white people
Connor Lee
Fuck off kike
Ian Moore
I think the biggest difference is that Spencer's plan to build a white identity movement didn't preclude Nick's GOP takeover strategy - if anything it complemented it. But, Nick was insistent on countersignaling Spencer's plan even though Nick admitted that he didn't have a long term solution after the demographic clock ran out. An IRL white identity movement is necessary. We will be outnumbered soon - control of the Republican party isn't going to change that.
The alt-right overwhelmingly votes Republican already. Spencer's (legitmate) criticism of various conservatives for cucking on immigration isn't going to change that. There's no reason to think that you shouldn't be trying to build both a political and meta-political movement.
Basically Spencer's plan works short and long term, while Fuentes' probably won't even work short term (as Spencer correctly points out, similar party uprisings have been tried and failed in the past). Big paradigm difference between the two and Fuentes' remarks betray a lack of vision beyond some unattainable 1950s sitcom.
Austin Cox
wow you sure showed me
Jonathan Foster
> do all these things that the alt-right has already done
Yeah, we get it, you aren't active in IRL activism so you just buy into the media meme that the alt-right is just a bunch of Nazi/KKK LARPers.
> We need Voter ID's, we need to make willful segregation possible and legal. We need whites added to protected groups ( "Whites Need Not Apply" Needs to be as punishable under the law as the opposite.) Whites are a group, we deserve representation as a group. We have the right to advocate for our self interest.
Good luck with that. The Democrats will call you rayciss and the Republicans will claim you're a Nazi for "seeing color." New movement is necessary.
> We need to not piss off literally every other group before becoming a minority
Have you been paying attention? Our existance pisses many of these people off.
Nicholas Lee
How did you feel after you listened to the podcast? Did you feel it was resolved?
Dylan Morris
Spencer doesn't LARP as a Nazi. He never has. What the fuck are you talking about?
Anthony Murphy
Yes, I felt like it was obvious that Spencer won the debate and that Fuentes couldn't actually address Spencer's argument for identitarianism.
Fuentes presented ridiculous strawmen of Spencer (ones that Spencer had addressed and discreditedly repeatedly over the last 5 years) and then turned to liberal Turner Diaries/racewar memes when he got shut down. Fuentes even admitted that his Republican party takeover plan didn't have longevity in the face of changing demographics.
It was clear that even Allsup, Fuentes' cohost, agreed with Spencer by the end of the debate and was perfectly comfortable telling Fuentes how much he was embarassing himself.
Jaxson Cook
Sloppy, divisive posts that add nothing to the discussion and serve only to piss off the people who are actually doing something are generally met with a
>fuck off kike
Deal with it
Luke Miller
I'll wait until Fuentes' discussion with Enoch before I make up my mind. I admit I am not so fully on Fuentes' side as I was.
Ryan Smith
Appreciate the dialogue senpai - I think it's just wrapping up
Aww I missed it, I thought it was only starting in 15 minutes.
Aaron Adams
Fuentes is a kid. This debate is equivalent to CNN bringing spencer on to make white nationalists look bad.
Austin Kelly
Remember when all those evil whites voted for Obama? TWICE?!! so racist.
Jeremiah Lopez
Why you faggots make it so complicated? You really need to learn how to read the political context...
> The alt-right is a decentralized movement. You have: >> Identitarians >> Civ nats >> Conservacucks >> Ethno nats >> Nat Soc >> Ancaps >> Libertarians >> Others...
Fuentes is not ok with the Nat Soc part, the Ethno nat part and the Conservacuk Civ Nat part. He understand race realism but he doesn't thing that is feasible (or a good idea) to use it as a major selling point to the normies, and that you cant use the army to kick brownies out of the country.
Ironically speaking he is closer to Spencer than he thinks... He is against his optics and against the "self segregation" part. But what he doesn't undestand that "self segregation" is not a meme. People who is racial aware and pridefull in their heritage tend to self segregate with people similar to them. That's what happen with gentrifications, ghetto culture, private closed neighborhoods, white fleeing, etc.
Ian Martin
I agree - but Fuentes needs to be put in his place if he's going to realize any of his enormous potential. I really did enjoy his show before all the countersignaling began. Disappointing to see his arrogance get the better of him, but I was the same way when I was his age.
He forced these debates by publicly optics cucking and then failed to stand up to anything other than a DS strawman.
I think that him getting bounced out of IE probably ended his career. He mentions (((them))) too much for any outlet other than the alt-right to touch him. Without a public apology/countercuck, he's done.
Easton Davis
Spencer's experience with organizing? Like trusting a former Hillary supporter to lure the Alt Right into a police-supported buzzsaw in Charlottesville? Yeah, he's amazing.
LOL fucking idiot white nationalists call people like Fuentes cucks and follow failures like Spencer, then wonder why they accomplish nothing, ever.
John Myers
Yeah, but "countersignaling" is not the problem. He is just too "confrontational".
He need to relax a little and go for a "intelectual" approach.
He is too confrontational, is using a polarizing strategy but don't have the political capital nor the followers to back it up.
He is fighting a battle that he can't win. He need to grow up before.
Grayson Lee
Fuentes is cool, i like his vibe. Havent seen his spencer thing yet
Ryder James
Spencer wasn't an organizer you fucking idiot.
Jason White
You know what I didnt hear during Obamas run, "White genocide" Looks like they believed yall.
Elijah Taylor
I will keep this in mind as I listen to it, I think Fuentes lost against Spencer. If he wins against Enoch and you fags are lying I will descend on you with the fury of a thousand suns.