I dont care if it makes it easy for people to say I'm brainwashed or stubborn, I just cant keep debating with people. Its so tiresome at this point. The media has succeeded in shitting in the pond of information to such a degree it takes enormous amounts of time and effort to get people to realize up is down and black is white. And 90% of the people I'm debating wont listen even when presented with proof. Its exactly how Yuri describes. The frustrating part is they think I'm doing the same thing when they present me with fucking OP-ED articles form Salon and I tell them its bullshit. When the fuck is chaos finally going to break loose? Do I really have to endure things getting worse before it'll happen? I pray that the early 20's will be when it begins.
Has anyone else just stopped debating with people?
>people say I'm brainwashed or stubborn
once upon a time they would have said you're faithful and you focused. But now we don't need to write positive words about people like you, we have cheap labour, from cheap people. I'm sure they won't lower MY quality of life.
Same. I've stopped debating with normalfags for several months now.
It's exactly as Yuri described how demoralization is going to be in America.
I'd rather just focus on achieving extraordinary things for the White race via my career
I never bothered. my siblings don't take me seriously anyway and actually, neither does anyone else
I tried for months to redpill a hardcore I'm with her friend last year. Quickly realized that nothing I said mattered unless it came from CNN or occupy demcucks. Gave up. But you better believe I called his ass at 3 am November 9th laughing my fucking ass off
There is no greater conviction than the thought that you are right. Follow nature at all times. Obey natural law and you never have to debate anyone to know you are entirely correct.
Read and re-read the 88 precepts.
you may as well 'debate' a brick wall
normies are stuck in a false left/right paradigm blissfully unaware how (((they))) control both 'sides'
unless and until they realize the JQ, waste of time
Im temporarily surrounded by idiots, i don't debate them whats the point. I mean literal idiots i know the difference.
Takes time.
They'll get their eventually, they always do.
now that the election is over I don't get in squabbles over trump with left leaning friends & family anymore. feels good man.
What's the point?
I find that pointing to the law that Obabo signed in that quite plainly and literally legalised propaganda against its own citizens. When you frame news stories like that it forces the normie to take a viewpoint that isn't as extreme as yours. They'll be familiar with Russian propaganda and WWII allied and axis propaganda, so when you point out that things going on today aren't so much paralleled by the past so much as kind of just still happening something dislodges in their mind. It's a dirty feeling and you've condemned them to a period of anger and depression but it's made a few normies I know quit mainstream media altogether.
Learn how to debate, you don't need to tell them what they need to know. You need to ask the a few simple hard questions to make them rethink their beliefs. You don't need to defend anyone, even Trump.
You're describing me. I stopped because I unironically believe pic related.
>Do I really have to endure things getting worse before it'll happen?
They'll care when the bread and circuses stop. But by then, it'll be years too late.
I've stopped doing debates because they won't read or listen to your info. Ask short questions or belittle them to make them realize how stupid they are. Once you know enough you'll be able to do this fairly easily. Think in a greentext mindset while berating them if that helps. Debating doesn't change people's minds.
Stop wasting your time trying to convert normies to the truth.
They're not interested in the truth. They're interested in maintaining the same illusion that handfeeds them breadcrumbs and panders to their false sense of individuality.
Left? Right? They're both retards walking in different directions.
I stopped debating in 2008 already.
In 2017 I have to carefully hide my powerlevel.
concern trolling is most effective
you suport muslims? are you telling me you dont care about gays and kikes not getting killed?
they already killed 90% of the kikes in iran and egypt, etc. etc.
asnd just deny fault.
tell me hy republicans 5k miles from ny are to blame for democratic black cops under a democratic black mayor under a democratic black attourney general shooting a black
don't outright accuse
be like this
Like no one is going to defend the dnc paying people to pretend to be Trump supporters and cause violence, or them screwing Bernie, or them feeding debate questions to Hilldawg. People won't try to defend this stuff, and thats just a small part of corruption from the election. Also how hard is it to argue against communism? I mean seriously, starving sucks.
I used to see it like sitting down to a poker game with people who you knew were going to cheat. Not only that, you also knew that they would cheat badly, they were going to get caught cheating quickly, and yet they would still never admit they were cheating, no matter how many times you nailed them doing it, and no matter how obvious their cheating was.
What was the point?
Is the challenge to try to win the game despite the cheating? Is it to expose the cheaters to others watching the game? Is that the point? Is it to train other people to spot the cheating themselves?
I have to admit that the more crazy the cheating gets, the more predictable it becomes, the less of any challenge I see in it. The cheaters neither learn to cheat better, nor do they ever prosper with their cheating. It's impossible to have any meaningful discussion with people who cheat - just like any game, of any other kind, is usually ruined by cheating.
I used to tell myself I was working to expose all the cheating going on. Now, I just don't know.
It's all so tiresome.
No one listens anymore. They just wait for their turn to speak. So now I take the backseat and let people vent and rant and wait for them to ask me what I think to speak up.
Yep. Had to write off 75% of my acquaintances this year due to this. Even lost some close friends as well. I share your frustration, and would become exceptionally upset when the whole conversation turned into a shouting match. Things I've learned so far:
>Never going to change anyone's mind when debating
>If they get upset at me because of my politics, then they are not really friends anyway. They are liabilities.
>People are too focused on being right 100% that they can't even consider opposing views.
>There are too many fucking extremists on both sides to even have discourse.
So, I've just been avoiding political discussions all together unless it is with a like minded person who engages me on the subject first. If they are some fucking nut job, I just redirect the conversation to a new subject. If they won't take no for an answer, I just tell them that I am having a good time, and would rather not get into a political debate at that time.
Holy shit are you ok dude?
user,
I've come to the conclusion that debating is all good, but you need to shift your tactics and strategies to match your opponent. When you are debating leftists, you have to keep one thing in mind: They thrive off of consensus. This is because, to them, not being part of the group produces a visceral reaction, and an unpleasant one at that. Accordingly, their goals will be about out-grouping you and maintaining their status in their group, not about truth, fact or logic.
That doesn't mean that you sink down to their level - no. You keep the fact and logic for whatever audience there may be. But that doesn't mean no hitting below the belt, either. For example, if some lefty fuck is calling you a Nazi, you could respond with something like this: "You know, the SA Brownshirts painted with a very broad brush and incorrectly characterized most of their political opponents, and used that as justification for violence against them. I'm not a National Socialist and neither is [whatever group you identify with]. All that you're doing is betraying us, and we will remember that betrayal. I can't believe that you wouldn't even think to consider how insulting it would be to call someone who isn't a Nazi a Nazi."
In that, you've out-grouped them, you've likened them to either being like a Nazi or implied that they're insensitive and stupid. If they're a true lefty, that should feel like a gut punch to them, and it should tie their mind up in an endless loop going between the two bad choices that you've presented.
>you suport muslims? are you telling me you dont care about gays and kikes not getting killed
Fucking nope. This is what makes people rage out and stop debating altogether, to the point that I think it's a tactic to be so blatantly two-faced about Islam- They know Islam and feminism are fundamentally incompatible but by holding both positions they just signal their suicidal ignorance and sends any rational being into hatred.
It's real
>talking about politics outside of explicitly political places
>ever
I've had someone leave the room in frustration at my Islamophobia after I told them that the Quran advocates for violence against non-Muslims. They literally just grunted, rolled their eyes, and walked away.
>And 90% of the people I'm debating wont listen even when presented with proof.
I can prove you do to the same thing. Do you want me to?
It took awhile for me, but I am quickly and thoroughly scrubbing my presence from social media.
Normies dont argue to understand, they argue to validate. Normies live for pleasure and will never understand the spirituality associated with realizing their own falsehoods, not to mention the importance of basic ascetic practices.
I talk to those who will listen, but in person only, and only those willing to accept their mistakes and not hold mine against me.
(((Social media))) is spiritual poison. It is instant gratification, there are few things as dangerous to an open mind.
the first step is to put fear in their hearts with your maga hat and confederate flag.
Now I just tend to cut to the chase.
I just fast forward to white identity and gauge whether or not a person is open to white people organizing along their ethnic identity.
If they give me a squishy answer, I tell them they are anti-white and explain why, and then see where the conversation goes from there.
But yea, I used to have hour long conversations on who should make roads. Im not about that anymore.
I sure do.
hard to to debate them when it's just "well this happened so you're white and should kys"
I tried debating with people but I always found out it never changed their opinion. They are demoralized and I definitely stopped giving a fuck after trump won. We fucking won , if they wanna stay blue pilled sheep so be it
>Normies don't argue to understand, they argue to validate.
So true
And to add to this, several good books from prominent people emphasize on not debating. It seems almost counter intuitive but anyone who thinks back on their RL or online debating encounters can tell you that neither person budged an inch even if they were completely wrong. Every now and then you'll run into a sane person but that's rare.
Dude I’ve spent the past 2 hours arguing with my liberal cousin about why repelling the second amendment will do more harm than good
They always say stupid shit like
>the KKK and Nazis are the same because they're both white supremacists
And when you explain the differences between the to they'll just ignore it and move on to the next inane bullshit then circle back around or they'll call you a whacko or some shit because they're too stupid to study history and understanding it is on the same level as being the wide-eyed crazy conspiracy theorist image the media has fed them since a baby.
I've even had some revert to saying "even if that's factually correct it isn't emotionally correct".
These people don't care anyway, if someone is arguing on that point you can usually gauge if they're arguing because they were fed bad information or if they're arguing as a cover for their political bias and using shitting poorly thought-out arguments as a mask for their true intentions.
Just got done going to a local event for civic engagement my school requires. Most college kids don't have an understanding of any issue outside media buzzwords. Discussing the topic of obesity every single one them thinks we should close fast food restaurants, yet they don't understand the impact that would have on workers in that industry.
In a couple years if Trump does well I'll remind everyone that they're dumb shits and should have their right to vote stripped.
if they rage out they are the type that cannot be convinced to our side
if a neutral party sees them publicly let gays get tossed off buildings or beheaded, that guy is gonna convert soon
I've personally convinced most of my friends to hate the dems almost as much as trump because they realise the dems support terrorism
my friends are still retards because racism is more horrible than terrorism to them, but it is not a fast process
Voting rights should be stripped altogether. Democracy was a mistake, and the accounts ITT of the sheer stupidity of your average normie just validates that claim.
>Debates
You mean arguments?
>when is it going to break loose
Pic related
>>
hahahahahahahaha
GAAAHHH this. My mother was talking about le evil alt right KKK Nazis, and I tried telling her how it isn't even a conspiracy that the KKK is a totally defunct, FBI-infiltrated organization, that they were Democract, and that the Nazis and KKK hated each other. But she wouldn't listen.
I gave up a long time ago. Years ago when I was young and naive I used to think that logic, facts, and reason were the way to get people to understand because that is how I think. Experience with normies has revealed that be a mistake. The mass man is a simple, emotionally driven creature. Do not waste your time trying to reason with it.
We’ve already provided the axioms for our ideas long ago, and shown their superior , empirical utility through the lens of history. Those who don’t accept these ideas at this point are simply denying an empirical reality; argument is therefore fruitless. And...since their actions have existentially damaging consequences, we should be talking less and acting more.
So much this.
Not that the votes mean anything to begin with. The voting system exists to keep people believing that they have a say in the direction big brother is going.
I'm fine with voting rights - but only for those who can demonstrate a working knowledge how our government is SUPPOSED to work. Passing a citizenship test would be my minimum standard, and in reality, I'd like to see more than that. In short, low information voters are a fucking cancer on any democracy or republic.
I get into a shouting match with my closest friends at least a few times a year, you have to rage every now and then
go buy your gun and wait in silence like the rest of us, another 3 years tops.
I don't know but I had 3 armies get completely fucking ruined on Total War Warhammer the other night. It was fucking devastating.
I've had those same type of people turn around attack Christianity viciously and pull all the straw men and Jewish tv stereotype arguments.
I've reached a point where I'll only debate on this site, and face to face. Mostly face to face. When you can look someone in the eyes and dominate them it's obvious they're wrong. Arguing on online is a waste of time because people have forever to just look up whatever bullshit they want to try and prop up their argument, dodge your questions entirely, and just derail everything. Then they'll just stop responding at some point. It's screaming into the void.
Face to face conversations tend to require people to address what you're saying directly, at the very least, look really fucking stupid to bystanders. Which is generally the real reason to argue as well, so that the neutrals can make up their mind.
If you can't agree on the facts of the debate, it's pointless. There's no point in expressing, say, why you think Trump has been doing mostly good things for the country if your opponent sees Trump as a corrupt Russian puppet racist cheeto idiot. In his mind Trump is such an obvious and utter dunce that he literally cannot process the thought of someone actually liking him. He'll then conclude that you also must be a corrupt Russian puppet racist cheeto idiot.
Or with the recent Las Vegas shooting. Sure, maybe in normie-world it's really easy to denounce Paddock, but in /ourworld/ things don't add up and we aren't even sure if Paddock is at fault. It's a lot harder for us to blame Paddock if we have reason to believe he was framed, even if only in small capacity.
If you can't agree on the facts it's just a waste of time.
Just stop at Individual. You don't need more.
Read "Becoming a Barbarian" Jack Donovan
Complete agree, it's just not worth the effort they won't ever believe you no matter how correct you are
bad idea.
societies decay 100% of the time, so to reset it halfay is retarded idea. you reset it a far back a you can possibly go in terms of institutional integrtity
>>when is it going to break loose
So much this...my friend won't even listen to me when I say something pro conservative since he automatically thinks "Republicans are the bad guys" and "Democrats are the good guys "
>I've reached a point where I'll only debate on this site...
That's because with the anonymity on this site, you don't have to hold back. I always have fun when you get some lefty on here challenging the fact that niggers murder other niggers far more than whites kill other whites, and that the vast majority of homicides are within race. They always get backed into a corner, and I don't even have the FBI's UCR bookmarked.
>debates
Enjoy having everything important you say shouted down or ignored. Everyone has some agenda adopted by their peers or the media, nobody seems to want to just get to the bottom of things anymore.
Government is too big for anything to work at this point, but after the reset...
This. Democracy is a mistake and it's why founding fathers didn't set up a democracy, but it's what it's turning into and (((they))) keep repeating it.
Here's how i guarantee all of your "debates" go
>fact is presented by other person
>hillary clinton
>obama
>whataboutthis.jpeg
>lool at this meme
>libtard
>hurrrrrr
>checkmate
Faggot
It's called the final solution.
You don't debate the enemy, you purify and move froward, upward and onward.
yep, ive just gone back to 80s talk. laughing at fags, calling niggers niggers etc. I don't even want to change anyone's mind anymore.
Is this photoshopped what is that thing? Has it heard of weights and animal protein?
Collectivist, socialist garbage, friendo.
Just replace "humanity" with the international state.
Also really good/thought-provoking thread guys, nice to have one once in awhile.
It's not even that, I'm not shy about quoting murder stats in public, but unlike the rest of the internet, I at least have a general faith in the type of person I'm interacting with on pol with the exception of shills.
i try it from time to time, but arguing with leftists is pretty much useless. they're not interested in learning the truth. i'll make a point, and rather than attacking my actual reasoning they'll just go 'nuh uh' and drop meaningless buzzwords like 'pseudoscience' and citations from wikipedia in an effort to sound as if their beliefs are well-founded. they just talk straight past you.
or "you must have seen that on fox news" and im like i haven't had tv in 8 years faggot!
by reset I meant killing everyone involved in the current government and going a far back as possible in our ethnic memory
king henry maybe
Is the purpose of a debate to reach a common ground and the truth ?
Sorry i'm dumb.
i don't debate with them, i just joke around with them. If we're playing a game and there's a black guy who steals something, I'll say 'remember how blacks commit way more violent crime than whites', and based on the context of our friendship and their humor, they find it funny. Then it sticks in their head and they'll eventually start saying something similar.
Then they struggle with it and rationalize it as just a joke and that they aren't racist or anything. But they'll gradually start moving more and more right on their own with occasionally sneaking in statistics somehow in a relevant conversation
I've noticed a lot of my friends moving right and following this pattern, but I haven't really narrowed it down or refined it because I'm not trying to see if I can influence a friend's political compass. It's just something I've observed
It makes sense though, if you confront them head on they're going to feel attacked and dig in
If you just drop clues while you're otherwise enjoying whatever you're doing, they'll start to add up
If your friend is too much of a fag to even be able to handle some edgy banter, he's too retarded to be able to get through to him anyway
It's probably how most people ended up here. I remember being from Sup Forums and moving to /new/ and enjoying it until moot deleted it. Even before that when I was younger, my friends made a lot of racial/jewish jokes. One friend started it and we found it hilarious so then we all started joking around like that, and in turned it chained out. All of those people might find Sup Forums funny as fuck, and I bet a lot of you had a similar experience as a kid.
The ones that didn't may have just found Sup Forums by chance and enjoyed the memes and banter. You took one redpill after another, and now you're 1488
now it's spread to the_donald and bringing in hoards of fags, they'll all follow the same path. they won't talk about it directly with normies,they'll hide their power level, but they'll get there.
My favorite is being accused of listening to Alex Jones.
get fucked
Yeah same here. I agree and empathize with you and OP a lot.
I came to the realization that even the power and influence of a close friend is NOTHING compared to the influence of mainstream media on most people.
>You're my best friend from college, and you just spend 6+ months saying that Hillary is the devil while you were supporting Bernie?
>We had several hour-long conversations about how bad Hillary was and we were on the same page exactly.
>The day Bernie threw in the towel you instantly supported Hillary against Trump and went into a panic attack when I told you that I wasn't voting for anyone (since we both live in a deep blue state) but I hoped Trump won despite his faults.
>To the point of almost throwing me out of your home you were speechless.
I don't want anything to do with these people. They're gone. But I knew this. 8+ years of knowing about Alex Jones prepared me. And no I don't believe everything Jones says or really consider myself a fan. But just the whole Truther thing was enough.
You can't convince 85% of people of any fact that the MSM doesn't give them first.
Most of these same people will TELL you that they "don't trust the media". They think they're smart and skeptical, but really they're just empty and nihilistic.
And that doesn't even count the conservatards who are all on Trump's dick now... 55+ year olds who think they've got it all figured out. Really if Jeb was in office right now they'd be in the same position, defending "their" president. They've learned nothing. They never do.
You just have to work on yourself and try to grow a network of acquaintances who are useful to you in whichever various ways you need them.
The most difficult thing, though, is the immense quadrant of the public sector that's infested with brainwashed lefties. I'm not sure how someone could even send their kid to public school now, or college, unless the coursework was extremely targeted.
I wish it would just collapse.
I've been done with dialogue for years.
90% of people try to "debate" from an emotional standpoint.
It's never about presenting a more logical way to reach a more desirable conclusion.
It's always about presenting feels in a way that makes people feel like any other way than your way is a bad feel.
Most people literally just make up facts or are so blind they accept what people they agree with tell them.
>after election
>sister says "isn't drumpf using up all of our social secturity"
>dad says "yeah everything is fucked, we could've made history (by electing the first female president)
>try to explain the social security is going down because more baby boomers are going into retirement
>shoutingmatch.jpg
no, I'm pretty fucking far from OK, but thanks for asking.
Here is the truth:
When a persons survival isn't dependent on their beliefs, when they have the luxury to be able to live a life opposite to reality without any perceived consequence... They can not have their minds changed because they will think with feeling and amusement rather than logic and fact.
There is no point in debating them, just find entertainment in applying their arguments in ways that would cause them mental anguish.
>implying Sup Forums doesn't argue the same way
You're both brainwashed mongs. Literal right wing SJWs
hehe good to see conservashits demoralized.
if you weren't such pussies, you would be out fighting for your country like buddhists in burma.
but there is a fact of life: conservatives are cowards and give up easily.
bad goy
boomers cant into math
your dad is gonna hang beside niggers ont he day of the rope
...
I stopped debating as much and now I wear a MAGA hat and lift instead.
At least you have us
>someone wants to get into a debate
>I hate debating
>meet any appeals to emotion, popularity, etc. by asking for citations
>they never do because who would carry that around, least of all someone lefty
>eventually they get pissed off, start to ask me the same question if I claim something
>have a small folder of statistical and historical references on my phone to show them
>they fuck off
hehe good to see drumpf voters demoralized.
It is hard to argue with people when they won't adhere to any sort of logic or rational thought. In this case I typically won't argue, or go straight Jew tactics and argue using emotions.
The last time I 'debated' someone was a month ago. Me and my friend(both fans of Trump) were talking with a work associate.
It amazed me, the man absolutely hated Trump and had no logical reason as to why. I've never seen someone get so worked up about hating a president before. But yeah... completely pointless discussion that went around in circles.
yes
in real life people have reputations and egos
debating on Sup Forums is actually productive because you can get BTFO, the thread ends and you have an opportunity to change your views on things in the next thread
in real life people naturally resist, the only way to convince others is by example