Let's face it...

Let's face it, protestantism is the root of modern society and marxism is simply a logical conclusion of the liberation movements started by Luther, Calvin, etc.
frontpagemag.com/fpm/268289/pro-islamic-west-born-500-years-ago-raymond-ibrahim

Other urls found in this thread:

warhistoryonline.com/napoleon/napoleons-empire-empowered-european-jews.html
napoleon-series.org/ins/weider/c_jews.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Just
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menasseh_Ben_Israel
olivercromwell.org/jews.htm
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

And yet only Catholic and Orthodox nations ever seem to fall to communism.

its not the Lutheran and other prot leaders washing Muslims feet and asking for more immigrants, that's the pope

golly gee I wonder why

I blame the Anglos

If they hadn't fucked up the Spanish fleet then later the French fleet while Napoleon was in Egypt, North Africa and the Middle East would be decidedly Spanish and/or french.

Like Merkel didn't invite moslems to europe while Francis was reading Luther and Marx in argentina
Besides the countries that worship marx the most are protestants

Well liberation theology did start with Catholicism, and I think it has to do with them droning on about suffering all the time. Since they love suffering so much maybe they view communism as a sort of forced asceticism that brings everyone closer to God through poverty?

Catholic nrx can save the west

oh yeah because russia is super protestant

yeah we obviously chose to become a communist country because we love our god so much

but Napoleon himself was educated by the liberal protestants and became the king of jews
warhistoryonline.com/napoleon/napoleons-empire-empowered-european-jews.html

napoleon-series.org/ins/weider/c_jews.html
that's false, even in wikipedia you can find the roots of liberation theology.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Just

There are more marxists in western society than in the past 100 yearsin Russia
99% of the multicultural, LGBT and pro-muslim literature and movements were born in the west

>Degenerates forcing this kid to do stupid shit
THIS CANNOT CONTINUE

The 95 Feces destroyed Christianity and the white race

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Just
So it still ended up being led by Catholics either way.

>germany invents communism
>sends Lenin to Russia and assures a communist revolution
>fucks over half of Eastern Europe and carpet bombs the other half
>Huur why do you fall to communism goy? Are you weak?
Even you beloved Hitler loved muslim dick

the organization?
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were raised protestants and Marx himself was a liberal jew who felt at home due to german long tradition of hating conservatism

It’s not untrue. Protestantism and Protestant societies cannot adequately tackle Islam. That is an underlying problem in the modern world.

>Even you beloved Hitler loved muslim dick
Nigger do you see my flag? Why would I like Hitler?

Ah you are just an American spouting memes without knowing history. That's ok

Germans were about 50/50 split between Catholics and Protestants. Not to mention as it says in your link that they modeled their organization after a Frenchman's ideas, and France was largely Catholic and atheist.

We're taking our lands back, gringo. For Cristo Rey and La Virgen de Guadalupe. Fuck WASP "culture" and Marthin Luther. And if the West you're talking about it's the americanized protestant one, I cannot wait for its destruction.

I'm not the one claiming Germany invented communism.

>link that they modeled their organization after a Frenchman's ideas
At that time the Pope issued 4 decrees against Freemasonry and Freemasonry was consisted of calvinist, lutherans and atheists.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menasseh_Ben_Israel
olivercromwell.org/jews.htm

Protestant have a long tradition of working with jews. They funded most of their revolutions and wars

But muh On the jews and their lies, muh my antisemitic Martin Luther, muh he was redpilled

>At that time the Pope issued 4 decrees against Freemasonry and Freemasonry was consisted of calvinist, lutherans and atheists.
Which is irrelevent to our point. Stop trying to deflect the conversation.

Sure, because Marx was not German
>it's always da joos mang, dei be keepin us down n sheeit, never our fault
Learn to take responsibility from time to time.

Fuck off spic. Shouldn't have invade the US in the first place.

Please hombre, liberate us and enrich us with your Catholic culture.

No, they reformed the church. The catholic church was corrupt in that it used god and the bible as a pretext to siphon money from the citizens. They were a state within a state, but rather than collecting taxes through the threat of violence, then they collected taxes through the threat of eternal damnation.
Luther and the movement that branched off from him, were essentially good. They where not anti-theist, they where not degenerate, they where true to the bible, and they did not use the authority of god to enslave their fellow men.

Marx WAS Jewish, I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove by denying basic history. It's a 10 second google search away, look it up for yourself.

Your point is the Freemasonic and communist revolts were led by Catholics.. which is impossible since the freemasons and protestants were persecuting Catholics at the time.
You can't say Freemasonry without thinking about protestantism which share similar values of ''paradise on earth'' and ''liberation of men from oppression''

Also read the comments on the article.
Americans are really retarded
>In history, we must take the benefits with the cost. The bloody religious wars and persecution that followed Luther and reformation are what drove the idea of religious tolerance and freedom of conscience our country was founded on.
>Perhaps it was God's plan anyway that some acceptance of Islam was needed at that particular time so history, which God controls, plays out exactly as He wished it too.

Literally "muh freedom" bullshit used to defend islam

"Pope" Francis is a literal Marxist and nigger lover

>Your point is the Freemasonic
I never mentioned freemasonry once

>which is impossible since the freemasons and protestants were persecuting Catholics at the time
We're talking about Communism, remember?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Germany is where communism started and spread from. If you are implying that only jews were communist, again you have no idea of history

Was the freemasons a proto socialist/libertarian movement?

Protestantism worked well as long as there was a Catholic belt between them and Islam

You're arguing with a anarcho capitalist illiterate burger, it's pointless. This kind of fools hates Jews but thinks freemasonry is great.

In europe before the reformation usury was prohibited
That changed when the Bank of England was established in 1694 and many other banks in the region of today germany and netherlands followed

The protestant ''ethics'' are compatible with usury, the whole history of modern banking is related to the reformation

Without any doubt. It's not a coincidence Babeuf and Robespierre influenced Karl Marx and 19th century anarchists.

I'm a sedevacantist (I think Francis is a heretical anti pope), but what's the matter with black people? they can't be Christian because an american says so? Jesus accepts all races on His Church. You're speawing racial anti christian bullshit. He's marxist, but not because he says good stuff about non white people.

Moreover Marx being of jewish roots, doesn't change the fact taht it was the German imperial government and the Kaiser (vast majority ethnic Germans, if that is your problem) that caused Russia to fall to communism by sending Lenin there. They even financed Russian communists because they were against a war with Germany and that would have freed up the Eastern front.
They are directly responsible for creting the Soviet Union

>If you are implying that only jews were communist
Oh certainly not, Orthodox Russia was also very communist.

Pope Francis is a disgrace to the Catholic Church.

Sage

>Tfw Anabaptists end up as right

The problem with protestantism is that it lacks a central organization. Notice how protestan countries were the first to become relativistic and atheist.
There is no unified doctrine and thus it's easier to use it as a political tool that just goes with the time.
Catholicism is becoming the same unfortunately

>Believe in your conscience
>There is no sin that will prevent you entering in heaven
>Separation of Church and State is good
>Your daughter can be a prostitute but as long as she is a cultural Christian she is saved
the root of modern society is found in the early writings of Luther.

Huh. My great uncle was excommunicated from the Lutheran Church for being a mason...& the guy who started the Illuminati was a Canon law scholar. A Jewish Catholic convert. But I'm sure you're right.

>blaming feminist and nu-male crowd pleasers decisions of immigration policies on protestants
Why don't you go diddle some kids you Vatican bastard

Protestantism does not believe in "paradise on earth". Read some actual protestant theologians.

IMHO Islam has always been an enemy of the Catholic world, whilst an ally of the Protestants. They cannot tackle them, first of all because they had a common reason to exist. It is rooted in their genes.

And Protestantism is as much as a religious movement as a nationalistic one. Northern European societies revolted against the political and religious control of Southern Europe, control Southern Europe needed to combat Islam.

Protestants cannot tackle Muslims, it is against their genes.

>Protestantism does not believe in "paradise on earth"
There are 1000000 protestant chuches but early protestants reformers believed that people can make earth a paradise
The puritans, anabaptists and calvinists shared this idea

Not logical. A perversion of it.
It puts "good works" (social justice hogwash) into such an extreme frame of virtuousness that it supersedes the well being of the charitable society itself. To run it into ruin.

It's enough to be charitable and have some level of empathy or altruistic practices, but not where it becomes a pathology and a source of shame, sin or guilt for anyone who hasn't given some asshole rando all their worldly possessions, wealth, achievements, your children's future, your society (ie: Communism - the surrender of all personal holdings and rights to the state/centralized authority so they may redistribute it to the "needy").

Protestantism is fucked in Scandanavia because it long ago abandoned the Lutheran confession, not because Rome is a bastion against modernism. A glance at traditionally Catholic countries in Western Europe makes this abundantly clear. Rome has been cuddling up to the fake Lutherans in Europe for decades now, so I don't know where this leaves Papists who try to blame the fall of the West on Protestantism. I suppose it makes them Protestants in their own right, huh? Wanting to get back to an earlier, purer church?

if you remove Church from power and give it to the state, the state will eventually invite another religious power to replace it
Modern ''secular'' democracy is transitioning to islam, I think this is pretty obvious and it's a logical consequence.

oh yes, because China, Cuba, Vietnam, Afghanistan and other 3rd world shitholes were christian

Luther wrote a treatise called "Against Usury" & consistently intrigued against usurers in sermons. Usury in Europe started in Catholic low countries & Italy prior to the Reformation. The indulgences being sold in Germany that provoked the 95 Theses were an effort to pay off loans to Catholic bankers like the Fuggers who had financed the bishop of Mainz when he bought his pallium & Leo X building St. Peter's. Try again.

The work is titled ''Trading and Usury'' and the "indulgences being sold in Germany" didn't play a major role in the reformation
Luther was supported by the local bishop. His desire was not to end indulgences but to destroy the papacy
The moral degradation of some bishops and popes were a bigger issue, a issue which he never had any problem with it
He married a woman and lived with her in a monastery and often his rich friends helped him to spread his revolutionary pamphlets across
germany
Luther didn't write anything against loan with interest (usury)

Luther manifestly did not believe in paradise on earth. Blaming the Reformation for the teachings of the groups that departed from it is like blaming Rome for the teaching & actions of the Albigensians & Lollards.

>Cuba
Another Catholic country.

The indulgence controversy was THE issue that touched off the Reformation, & those indulgences were being sold at the direction of the archbishop of Mainz, who was the ranking predate in Germany, & the Pope. I have never heard or read that the local bishop supported or protected Luther, but even if you can provide a source for that claim, he was outranked. The protection Luther had that prevented his death was from the electors of Saxony.

thanks again, Germany

but it did

>The indulgence controversy was THE issue that touched off the Reformation
it wasn't. The Pope didn't find his 95 thesis as heresy. Only some of them were considered heresy because he was spreading ideas incompatible with the Church

You are trying to use the old marxist tactic:"A poor friar against the evil power corrupt capitalist (the pope)

In 1517 he wrote to a bishop he would consent with being silent if the pope found heresy in his writings
By 1518 he was attacking the pope
by 1519 he thought the papacy was evil and the Church had to be destroyed

If indulgences were the key issue, he would wait for that pope to die or simply consider him the antichrist, not the entire Church and the papacy

My point was clear in the comment: there is a basic ideological impediment for Protestants to fight Islam.

Regarding Protestant churches in the Nordic countries. It seems they are just a branch of the government. The Department of God.

"Marxism" is a result of the Frankfurt School created by a group of Jews after WW2 and nothing more.

Luther manifestly did condemn loans with interest, both in writing & from the pulpit, consistently, till the end of his life. The trad catholic writer Michael Hoffman wrote a book on usury & he acknowledges this because it is simply a fact. Calvinism began to approve usury, though Calvin's approval of it was more limited, I think. But usury was already in full swing at the time of the Reformation, with the tacit approval of popes & Catholic monarchs. Popes were frequently willing to borrow from usurers.

As to Luther marrying a former nun & living in a former monastery, what of it? Both he & his wife were fully aware that God nowhere commands or approves of the monastic life, whereas He does command & institute marriage. Surely even a Papist can acknowledge that living in marriage is better than living in fornication, as countless priests, monks, nuns, & popes have done for centuries because they vowed a celibacy that they could not fulfill, because God has not given them the supernatural gift (as St. Paul describes it.) Luther was able to maintain celibacy & did not marry until 1525, when he was over 40. When Papists condemn Luther for being "lustful" & starting the Reformation out of carnal desire, it's laughable, considering the notorious sexual immorality of the papist clergy & religious that has been criticized for over a thousand years.

feces post best post

luther is a real nigga stay woke g

>As to Luther marrying a former nun & living in a former monastery, what of it
He was committing fornication inside a monastery. So much for a ''reformer'' trying to ''purify" the Church.

If you find the book ''A Dialogue against Martin Luther's Presumptuous Theses concerning the Power of the Pope'' which was wrote by a cardinal against Luther you'll see he proved the indulgences were not the issue. Luther was attacking the Papacy
He replied saying he had no intention to attack the papacy.
1 year later he was not only attacking the papacy but saying people should destroy the Church

To me it seems pretty interesting Luther had the desire to be the reformer superstar, ''a poor german peasant hero'' against ''a powerful institution''.
This is more relevant than trying to argue if the indulgences sold to build Churches were valid or not

And yet they still haven't fallen to the commie hordes whereas the first major commie movement in eastern europe toppled traditionalism there.

Sure makes you wonder........

Show us your flag mordecia. I love seeing you fork tongued twats squirm about naming the jew. The new is directly responsible for communism and it was backed by jew bankers.

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISS

> you'll see he proved the indulgences were not the issue. Luther was attacking the Papacy

Protestantism is basically a Nationalistic movement. The religious questions is secondary, and in this political ideology, Islam was an ally.

Get off Sup Forums you Reddit tier cunts.

The difference is that there are many protestant groups that reject immigration and cuckoldry. Merkel does not represent all Protestants.

Meanwhile Francis is the undisputed head of your church and he's a confirmed satanic globalist cuckold kike.

The idea that Christianity can be democratic - idea promoted by (((fremasons))) is strictly protestant
"Social-Christian democracy"
"Christian Workers' Party"...all those useful idiots

First of all, it was the issue that started it. Everything began with the indulgence controversy. If your point is that indulgences were secondary to Luther's main concern, which was about the justification of a sinner before God, I agree.

But the 95 Theses touch on that, & they also deny the power of the pope or priests to remit temporal punishments, in purgatory or on earth. He argues in the theses that the Pope & other bishops have authority to forgive sins from Christ, but not remit temporal punishments imposed by God. Since the extent of the pope's power was still undefined at that time, I don't think Luther believed it would be easy to condemn him as a heretic for saying this. But the pope & papist theologians absolutely did condemn the 95 Theses as heretical because they denied the legitimacy of indulgences.

It's clear that the only history you've read on this is Catholic apologetic propaganda. And you can't have read the actual 95 Theses, otherwise you'd immediately see that Luther is not condemning the abuse of indulgences, which Rome could accept. He's denying that the Pope can remit anything other than canonical penances, which are imposed by human, not divine, authority.

>Protestantism is basically a Nationalistic movement
pretty much. No wonder why Nietzsche hated the german patriots

Pretty sure Britain declared the Second World War.

>Catholic church practically masturbates to the texts of ibn Rushd for a millennia
>those pesky pro-islam protestants tho amirite

again, if the issues were indulgences Luther didn't have to promote the destruction of the papacy and Church
The book I recommend you proves that Luther was lying to himself. While he proclaimed he was against indulgencies his writings were attacking the papacy, something which he first denied and said he would obey the pope and 1 year later changed his views to reform the whole church and even encouraged nuns to get married and have sex inside monasteries
There is nothing decent about lutheranism or early reformers, they destroyed Christianity for the jews to come later and conquer.

Guys im looking into getting more into church, im looking at catholicism or some sort of protestanism, which should I go for

What scares me most is that communism is in fact a continental --> American invention, like the puritans in new england who were all about universal brotherhood. from that point of view the rest of the world fell to communism when america didn't because america is its place of birth, and so more naturally immune. consider the third world which is now crawling with communist "freedom" parties. they had no defense, and the western european countries are now all socially democratic, and were forced to be that way after the war (by america). Stalin was also the allies' big buddy and his ties to jews in america is just insane.

After Reading this thread my assessment is you’re just a anti-german kike trying to pin everything bad that has ever happened on germany with flimsy reasons.

Moving on

Currently I'm reading a book on Protestantism. It definitely fucked up the West a lot. It doesn't even seem it was spread based on religion, to be honest, but politics.

They should have joined Orthodoxy or dealt with corruption without breaking away. It weakened the West so much.

He is right tough , luther wanted the ottomans to invade germany

he translated the bible before the people were like goats could not even read this shit

>communism was invented by __________
nah

Someone's grumpy about getting deported.

Sorry little fella.

Your point is well taken. If my experience of Lutheranism was through the Nordic state churches, or the protestant Church in Germany, I'd probably think the Reformation was a mistake, too. Not that the Lutheran Church is wonderful here, but I think there has been more success preserving the Lutheranism of Luther here, although not in the mainline Lutheran church.
....[continued]

The Lutheran Church has a confession that defines it, beginning with the Augsburg Confession & ending with the Formula of Concord from 1580. If you want to know what the Lutheran Church believes, what the Lutheran Reformation actually taught, you have to read those. If a church is called "Lutheran", like the church of Sweden, for instance, but doesn't insist that it's pastors & churches teach & practice that doctrine, it is no longer the evangelical or Lutheran Church, whatever it may call itself.

Luther made the Lutheran princes in Germany "emergency bishops" because few or none of the German bishops embraced the Reformation. Even Lutherans generally see this as a temporary emergency measure that wad not supposed to continue. Even so, it wasn't without precedence in church history. The Eastern Orthodox had this form of church government for centuries, & it did not harm the church. Meanwhile the Roman form of church government didn't protect it from interference by the state. In the last few centuries Rome has had to make deals with secular leaders repeatedly. France's church, for most of its history, was subject to the king's authority far more than the pope's.

[Continued]

And when Lutheran churches adhered to their confession, they were not subservient to the state. The hymnwriter Paul Gerhardt was removed as preacher more than once for denouncing Calvinism or the Calvinizing of the liturgy when the Prince had converted to the reformed church. Lutheran churches only started being slaves of secular authority as they let go of their confession. Once that is done & becomes the norm Caesar becomes God.

For instance, when the Prussian king forced a union of the reformed & Lutheran churches in his lands, many pastor's refused to accept it & were imprisoned. Many "old Lutherans" emigrated or separated from the state church. But those who bent the knee were now compromised; after that they would be picking & choosing for themselves what departures from God's word they would tolerate & which they wouldn't. But that's not how it works. You either hold to God's word alone in the church or you submit to human authority- - your own, the king's, or someone else's.

[Continued]

How does mass starvation follow logically from Protestantism?

It doesn't matter, because only God's Word is powerful enough to preserve us from falling into the most terrible heresies. Unaided, that's what people do.
But this is not the necessary outcome of the Reformation. It's the necessary outcome of departure from the Word of God. The catholic church hasn't been spared from this. It's true Rome hasn't started ordaining women or marrying fags, but neither has the popeless Eastern Orthodox Church. The solution to the pressure of the state & popular opinion on the church isn't to give the sword & throne to the church or its leaders.

The solution is to hold to & confess God's Word & accept the cross & persecution that comes with it. When the state supports the church & upholds God's Word, that is a good thing. But it won't always, & then the church has to keep the Word of God & suffer the cross. By trading in submission to the king for submission to the Pope, the Catholic church has not fallen into the heresy of embracing sodomy or been infected with the full gangrene of feminism. But they have lost the Gospel of Christ & believe that salvation comes through a person's efforts & through the mediation of the Pope & bishops- - through invented powers that the Pope & bishops claim to confer on those they ordain.

In reality, salvation comes only through faith in Christ "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". And this faith is not achieved by human effort but through the gifts Jesus actually did entrust to His church & its ministers or bishops- - the Gospel of His death for our sins & the sacraments of baptism, the holy supper of Christ's body & blood, & the power to absolve (or retain) sins. If the state Lutheran Church in Finland & the other European countries had relied on these instead of the support of the government, they would not be what they are now.
[Continued]

As far as Islam goes, I don't see what you mean. As far as I see it, any Christian in any church who believes that Jesus is Lord will be compelled to resist Islam. The Lutherans certainly did. Luther wrote a treatise "On War Against the Turk"; the Augsburg Confession praises Charles V for making war on the Turks. One of Luther's most famous hymns isn "Erhalt uns, Herr"- -

"Lord, keep us in Your word & work,
Restrain the murd'rous Pope & Turk,
Who fain would tear from off Thy Throne
Christ Jesus, Thy beloved Son."

The fact that Luther sees the Pope as an enemy of Christendom doesn't male him or us regard Muslims as friends. Protestants negotiated with Muslims only when they were faced with extermination by Catholic armies. I know a Lutheran pastor who grew up in Sudan. I think he was not Lutheran when he grew up there, but when I knew him he seemed to be quite familiar with how to work a military rifle, & I think he would tell you that the protestants in Sudan know from experience how necessary it is for them to resist Islam.

Protestantism has produced the "progress" narrative. There are very few protestant churches that can resist modernity now. Probably only the radical anabaptists and mennonites, and the dutch calvinists.

forgetting about a few countries like finland, Germany, Latvia and estonia. You fucking retard