Gender neutral French language

Hey Sup Forums, I wanted to ask some non french people about this:
independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gender-neutral-version-french-language-backlash-gibberish-a7987896.html

A quick rundown:
>In French, there is no proper gender-neutral, the default wording being the masculine one and it has the dominance when using plural (even if there's only one man for a million women, the plural version of the designation would be masculine). It is deemed "sexual tyranny" by SJWs who wish to change the ruling (and making it more convoluted).

I know it won't interest a lot of you, but for those who are, what do you think of it? Should centuries of tradition be changed in the name of equality?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française
youtube.com/watch?v=nEsuptrcUXQ
mentalfloss.com/article/12916/yall-youse-8-english-ways-make-you-plural
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Should the plural form depend on the majority of a group? Sounds to me like you'd have to assume their gender then, you fucking shitlord.

Good luck counting people in a crowd to use the right designation.

non french person here

i can understand why SJWs will see a problem with gendered pronouns because they see problems with everything, but in gendered languages dont forget that regular inanimate objects also have genders that are just random .. for example in French "a mountain" is "
"une montagne" (feminine) while "a lake" is "un lac" (masculine) ... so for that reason I think native speakers really don't pay attention to this

english has the advantage of being able to use the third person plural "they" in many situations when you don't want to specify gender for whatever reason "I'm waiting for someone.. they said they'd be here soon" (Who is it? a guy or a girl?) although i believe its considered improper English technically

Every language should have ways of referring to someone without specifying their sex. There are many, many languages that do this. It's retarded to not have one.

Just like how it's retarded that English has no plural second person pronoun, so we have to use words like "y'all" when addressing a group.

I've spent a lot of time in France and around French people. The odds of them accepting this are about zero. They are American-level patriotic about (1) eating and (2) the language. They'd rather work on Sunday than fuck with the French language in such a fundamental way.

This is the kind of dumb shit leftists do that alienates people and is better campaigning for our side than anything we are capable of. Its like they dont want to win.

tl;dr I don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion

I learned a bit of French in school, but I never really understood the significance of items being designated as either masculine or feminine. It seemed like just another thing to have to memorize. A book is masculine, even though it ends in a vowel.

I remember noticing that homosexual is a masculine word and faggot is a feminine one, and wondering if that was on purpose, or coincidence.

Anyway, the point is, I have no fucking clue what the significance of masculine/feminine is when it comes to language, so I don't have an opinion on it.

je suis un ananas

cancer SJWs. Tuez les tous xd.

>Let's remove information from our language
>let's remove plurals and congigaton
>let's be more like the insect manderians
>what's the worse that can happen?

The French language would be destroyed without gender.

It would have to be classified as another language.

To hell with the SJWs.

How about "you guys" or "all of you" you fucking hick

I always thought the gender thing in French was retarded.

What do frogs think of it? Is it confusing as a native speaker or do you just get used to it?

Gendered language is idiotic.

Fight me. I don't want to have arbitrarily memorize what gender was assigned to an inanimate object. Is a car male or female? Is a plane male or female? Who gives a fuck?

It's language, it'll do what it wants.

They can try to have a little movement to do it how they want or probably some watered down narrow end of a wedge. But people will keep doing what they think sounds right.
I don't speak french but I imagine there's some sort of feeling for which words just sound wrong together even if they do technically mean what you're trying to convey. Does this kind of feeling have anything to do with it?

Well, french is still one of the most subtle and complete language out there, so I'd say we managed pretty well without "inclusive writing" the last few centuries.

You would be surprised. This is pushed everywhere and seems to pick up steam as we speak.

Aren't all romance languages like that? At least portuguese is

>There is no plural pronoun for "you"
>Sure there is! Let me awkwardly combine several words together to make a pronoun!

t. brainlet

French is already fucked, in a couple decades there's going to be less ethnic Frenchman speaking French than Africans and Arabs in France.

Most european languages are gendered.

get a grip you fucking faggot

Look at swahilli with its 17 noun classes, and you will understand how people look at your gendered language.

I never had any problem with it. You just learn it with the rest. It can be rather confusing for a non native speaker though, and that's completely understandable.

It's not the first time people are trying to change the french language, but this time it's fucking everywhere. The government is pushing it, and they want to make keyboard with it. You're labeled a traditionalist/purist if you don't agree with it, and in our cucked country, you're basically hitler.

Always found it kinda arbitrary what object was male or female kind of didn't make sense.

But (((they))) want to change for the wrong reasons.

That some sick shit.

Jewish led communists seek to destroy all forms of western culture, including language. What else is new?

>no second person pronoun
>y'all
what does Y'all consist of? what two words, you retard?

>It's language, it'll do what it wants.
Not in France

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française

Y'all is far superior to you guys

It's Vulgar Latin once again.

Maybe you should actually read my post before replying to it.

>the default wording being the masculine one and it has the dominance when using plural (

English is supposed to work like this too, but the use of "them" as a neuter singular is taking over

Motto: To Immortality
Members: The Immortals

I always thought it sounded way too fucking badass for a bunch of bookworms.

The worst thing is knowing one of those languages and then trying to learn another one. Happened when I tried learning italian, the genders were all mixed up.

>Should centuries of tradition be changed in the name of equality?

Why ? to please degenerate and jews ?
Not even once

You don't have to memorise them, it's dependent on the word ending (at least in Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, so I assume French would be in the mix with them.

This isn't even about tradition, it's just the way the language works. You can't change that. Can you even imagine how it would fuck everything up? Frogs would sound like even bigger mongoloids.
Wanting to change something like language because of your feelings is a fucking insult and complete lack of respect for it.

Spanish is like that too, it's not confusing at all. You're born with it so it comes to you naturally.

Usually its cultural associated.
Like a tree is masculine in French cause its used by woodcutters.

But then for another Latin language its associated with nature then its Feminine.

>Should centuries of tradition be changed in the name of equality?
Absolutely not. The French language is a treasure of human culture specifically because of how autistic French people have been about keeping it pure. If the dumbfuck SJWs think that the language of love is too sexist for their tastes then they can go bitch about oppression in west African pidgin.

>even if there's only one man for a million women, the plural version of the designation would be masculine
Interesting. Now that I think about it in German the pronouns in plural are feminine, but I never even made the connection before.

>The odds of them accepting this are about zero.
You have to understand something about France : it always had the "best" in both extremes. It is the country that have seen both Rousseau and De Maistre, Voltaire and Pascal, Beauvoir and Weil, and also Chateaubriand, Calvin, Descartes, Tocqueville, Maurras, Proudhon, Sorel...
You have active counter-revolutionary monarchist groups, yet communist mayors, freemasons openly involved in politics, etc.

"Inclusive writing" has been a thing in Quebec for a while now, but mostly used by feminists and virtue signalers. For once, France is late on the ideology train, but as expected quickly takes it to crazy levels, now being pushed to elementary school material.

they dont.
the only reason why some subhumans care now is because they are gender obsessed retards that get offended at everything.

You adopted it from Latin or French.
Its not a Germanic feature.

Linguistfag here, this shit always annoys the crap out of me. Here's the rundown on muh oppressive masculine gender.

>Parent language of all Indo-European languages (PIE) was a gendered language
>there were only two genders
>animate (-s) and inanimate (-n)
>around 2,000 BC a third gender started to appear in various IE languages
>the abstract (ideas) gender (-a)
>the abstract gender evolved out of the inanimate plural (-a)
>the abstract gender evolved to include occupational (sailor, wife) nouns
>the abstract gender evolved into the feminine gender (-a)
>the animate gender evolved into the masculine gender (-s)
>because the animate gender already contained most words for groups of people, the plural masculine (-i) became the default for groups of people
>people, not being retarded, used the feminine plural (-ai) for groups of only females
>thus mixed groups of people used the masculine plural

TL;DR "female" nouns got special treatment for the last 4,000 years to make women feel included and valued, now feminists complain that they don't get special treatment enough because "woman" implies [insert bullshit here]. This nonsense started in English in early second wave feminism and spread to other languages. It's pushed by people with zero education in linguistics.

It's essentially like a Klansman complaining that "AfriCAN" is an indignity, because it somehow implies black people are capable of doing things. Then going over to Japan and demanding they stop saying "dekiru" (able to do) because they imagine it to be multiculturalism.

Bonus points to the feminists who bring up Sapir-Whorf as a reason we must socially reengineer foreign languages to suit their feigned outrage.

In ex-latin languages, 1 man = you use male plural pronoun and fuck them

>one of the most subtle and complete language out there

lol. No language is more "complete" or "subtle" or whatever flattering compliment you want to use than any other. Every language has different ways to express any given idea. The only actually substantial difference between languages is the number of words and that's just a product of the total volume of writing over time.

Incidentally, English has the most words. Note that in practice people in every language have a "working vocabulary" or number of different words they use on a regular basis that fits the 500/10000 rule. Around 500 words are used for the vast majority of speech, around 10,000 words are said, heard, written, or read in an average day. This shit is hard to measure, though, so any small but significant difference between two languages is easily lost in the noise.

>there is no future tense
>Sure there is! Let me awkwardly combine several words together to make a verb!

Perhaps you will have been found to be wrong on who is the person having been called the brainlet here.

The french got themselves into this mess by letting in a gazillion french speaking Moslems 50 years ago. That asshole De Gaul saying that Tunis was France or some dumbshit sand negro thing....

Ethnic French people who didn't speak French as their first language were passed over for French speaking Moslems who hate the French.

Now you want to fuck up the French language?

Damn French user - don't kill yourselves.

>majority of a group

Retard, what if it's a group of even genders? 2 men, 2 women? What then, faggot?

Oh wait, we already know what to fucking do. Mixed gendered groups always use masculine grammar. No fucking problem existed in the first place until people started whining.

No.

Stacy King does a good job with this.
youtube.com/watch?v=nEsuptrcUXQ

I think Marxists should stop having sway in the linguistic process. What they propose is asenine, just like all the propositions made here in the US.

OP, tumblr spics have already been trying to push similar bullshit with the term "latin@"/"latinx" and the real answer is putting your foot down and acknowledging that there are only 2 motherfucking genders because there are only 2 goddamn sexes and if you "feel" different, you need mental help because you are what you fucking are when you're born and no amount of comestic surgery or hormones will fix your chromosomes.

The rule was already established, so if no one abides in it they can't enforce it. You need to push a hard no for this issue to get it to go away forever.

Tell me the plural of "you" then.

I'll wait.

>Well, french is still one of the most subtle and complete language out there

what...you don't even have the word "am"

"me hungry"

you literally talk like fucking cavemen

y'all will soon turn into "yall" or some shit and become the norm.
give it 30 years or so when millenials will be in charge.

its yall, faggot

of course they have the word "am"

but in French hungry isn't something that you are, hunger is something that you have

>Should centuries of tradition be changed in the name of equality?
No

Yous.
mentalfloss.com/article/12916/yall-youse-8-english-ways-make-you-plural

Yous/Youse. Added to the Oxford Dictionary.

Nope, every object has a gender, no rules, all memory so we know who are the pleb strangers

French doesn't need that though. The translation is where it gets fucked up, but it's complete for what it offers. Too bad it scores lower than English in speech information rate.
English -> 1.08
French -> 0.99

It's the same for German.
>Ich hab' Hunger

So how come we do the opposite with pronouns?

Hol' Up my highschool french teacher just said you default to ils in a crowd.

All sjw faggots should speak hungarian, it has no genders...

J'ai faim. It is more like "I have hunger".

I thought "they" is only plural?
It should be more like
>"I'm waiting for someone.. it said it'd be here soon"

French is far more arbitrary.
Moustache is a feminine word in french.

Yep, that's the masculine/neutral version.

How about no. French Africa speaks pretty much standard French, while English Africa (including the US) speaks in Pidgin, as we all now know.

Honestly it does seem kind of weird to me to call a large group of women with one guy there ils instead of elles, but I would just be happy if objects were not split between the genders.
For instance le livre and la livre being two different things is just confusing imao. (also i never remember what gender the object is half the time anyways, i've heard alot of quebecois forgetting too)

nah it's "they"
"it" is never used in reference to grown humans unless you want to think of one as an object

Stop boy, english as less words and meaning of one word is shared through more things. it doesnt happen often in french. French is way more profound for a reason, it means more.

No and aren't French very proud of their language?

Québécois forgetting too. AHAHAHA im sorry to tell you this yung one but you never spoke to a quebecois if he really forgot the gendre of a noun desu.

"It" is nongendered but is used for objects and isn't used to refer to people.

"It said it'd be here soon" would sound like you were going to meet with an alien or a robot.

It's the same thing with Spanish but SJWs would never go after it because muh brown people

>Just like how it's retarded that English has no plural second person pronoun
It's "you," you fucking trog.

That's not true. English absorbed both Roman and Germanic roots. It has more words.

I am working toward French fluency, and I'm going to be mighty pissed if they neuter everything.

In German 'girl' is neutral. Don't let them find out.

Checked, also yeah most of the people i've spoken with have been out of quebec for a while.
Guess I just have shit luck with finding good french speaking friends

I used to joke that this is where the movement would eventually take them, attacking something merely because it merely mentions gender.
If the terms "masculine" + "feminine" were replaced with literally anything else (e.g. left+right, A+B, bix+nood) they wouldn't have an argument.

His comment merely referred to conciseness, in which English excels: that's why it's the language of Business. French is the language of Diplomacy, as it allows to be more precise, more meticulous.

Burger debunked

The article is non-news to be honest. It is pretty much
> Some British guy is angry at some French civil servants.
I'm not surprised, given that The Independent is a lefty troll leaflet.

I'm waiting for them to complain about german. Our plural (where english speakers would use "they") is "sie", which is the same as our word for "her". It's exactly the other way around. Weird it's not mentioned...

I wouldn't trust some random Wikipedia table, to be honest.

Lets not forget that verbs are way harder in french.

Is it, but females have different words for them

Uhm, what?

Wew

We already refuse to speak english correctly even though we all know how so good luck trying to get anyone here to use your weird fucking words.
All of you french bros here are writing english but you all know what it will sound like if you're prompted in real life. It's a shameful thing to speak english isn't it.

"You" is already the plural form, that's why the verb is "are". The singular is "thou".

Having several words referring to the same meaning while having different roots is useless if they don't add additional nuance.
English has both "kingly" and "royal", but it doesn't have a word for "le droit", merely capitalizing a common word "Law" to refer to the philosophical concept.

Show your flag you fucking faggot.

Is this "problem" present in other languages with gendered words such as Spanish and German? Might be different in languages such as German which actually have neuter words.

Like die, der and das

How is "ils" a tyrannical problem when women have "elles" all for themselves, while men have to share their pronoun?