vox.com
What do you guys think about this? How can we "make America great again" if the brightest and most educated people start fleeing the country in droves to get access to higher education? And keep in mind this almost only impacts PhD students in STEM. Most graduate students in Marxist-infested non-STEM fields don't get tuition waivers in the first place.
Good. The current cost of education and availability of crushing college debt while US universities horde cash in reserves is one of the most shameful scams ever perpetrated.
Higher education is already totally fucked regardless of any tax bill.
The truth is a good portion of american universities should be shut down. Read up on the disgrace of the Pennsylvania state colleges and you will see what I mean. The incompetence comes because no matter how bad they fuck up, the universities get bailed out with no consequence. Fuck em.
Graduate students usually work long hours in labs or as teaching assistants for minuscule pay already. The cost of education for undergraduate students will likely increase even more if graduate students start leaving academia for industry jobs.
This isn't about universities, it's about graduate students who are basically the universities' slave labor. I agree that higher education in this country is royally fucked beyond belief, but putting more burden on academic departments themselves instead of the corrupt administrations is going to ruin it even worse. Actual academics and scientists will start to look for better positions outside the U.S. and before we know it we'll be living in a 3rd world country.
POP THE COLLEGE BUBBLE
FORGIVE THE LOANS
DETHRONE THE FALSE AUTHORITIES
Oh no, that sucks.
A full academic system collapse would be better than what's happening now. No more grad students means no more universities.
>grad students are used as slave labor by a top-to-bottom corrupt and dishonest institution literally drowning in cash
So in other words, creative destruction is the best thing that can happen. The alternative is hoping that people like Larry Summers suddenly grow some honesty.
>Working in Academia
Wew lad. I got my master's and got out of that shitheap as soon as possible. I learned most of what I needed to do anyways from either previous jobs or the jobs that required a master's.
What did you get a master's in?
Why can't universities just get around this by not charging tuition if you are receiving a stipend? Problem solved
Great. When I was a Teaching Assistant or Research assistant in grad school I made so little I wouldn't have paid much in taxes anyway.
Now they pay Grad students a lot more. Some of them get medical insurance and have a union. Tax 'em!
If we eliminate all subsidies for higher education, the cost will go down.
No more federally backed loans or grants.
There's too many people in college anyway.
So...this is yet another industry where wages are pushed down by Federal law and keeping the law, thereby keeping wages down, is good according to the self-described "party of the working class"?
Gee, I must be a racist, sexist, moral degenerate for not hating this. I better go out and set some city trash cans on fire to prove my virtue.
Fuck that, make the snowflakes pay their loans.
Synthetic biology, but I work as middle management for a pharma company since it turns out I'm pretty good at administration. I've learned that later on in life you rarely use your degree fully if you don't go academia, but the pay, benefits and hours are better.
Probably BBC Studies.
>Graduate students usually work long hours in labs or as teaching assistants for minuscule pay already. The cost of education for undergraduate students will likely increase even more if graduate students start leaving academia for industry jobs.
this does not counter user's point.
>This isn't about universities, it's about graduate students who are basically the universities' slave labor. I agree that higher education in this country is royally fucked beyond belief, but putting more burden on academic departments themselves instead of the corrupt administrations is going to ruin it even worse. Actual academics and scientists will start to look for better positions outside the U.S. and before we know it we'll be living in a 3rd world country.
it all starts with the universities. look, you kids might be working your butt off for little pay, but i know plenty of people that work real world jobs that started the same way. if you're pissed, get pissed at the universities taking advantage of your desperation and walking away with plenty of government cash.
In this country anyway. There are plenty of great universities all around the world with functioning education systems. A complete collapse of the U.S. education system wouldn't be a good thing, it wouldn't force the system to be rebuilt for the better. It would just drive talented people out to greener pastures.
That's exactly what a tuition waiver is.
>it wouldn't force the system to be rebuilt for the better
prove it
this has already been happening for year
people from other countries did their phds in their own country and then went to the US
this time around the cost of the phd will again be a burden on europe, while they will return to the US to do business as the europeans already do
tech companies don't randomly get offices in san fran and silicon valley
Yea I got that, I'm just saying, can't universities simply not charge tuition, rather than giving "tuition waivers"?
Higher education in the traditional academic style is in its death throes, and good riddance. I had the choice between wasting 5 years of my life making peanuts working towards a PH.D, or going straight from undergrad into a cushy $75k per year job in the biotech industry. Guess which one I chose? I feel sorry for those poor fuckers stuck in endless postdoc positions chasing assistant professorships at 3rd rate colleges.
Trump should send tanks into Harvard yard, Tiananmen Square style.
PhDs are a lot more valuable on the world job market than you, Cletus. If your local meth lab explodes and you're suddenly out of work, you're fucked. But if I lose my job to this bullshit I can just call up one of my old friends who were international students in grad school and be in a new one by the end of the week, watching this dumpster fire of a country burn from afar.
Still waiting for any proof of your claims
Maybe technically, but probably the federal government will pull some kind of funding bullshit to stop them and university administrators love sucking federal cock for funding.
What you describe is like “MGTOW for Academia”.
Only instead of resulting in the collapse of the white race it results in the collapse of universities.
Got my PhD in Math 2 years ago.
The "tax credit" help I got was essentially zero. The only way to get tax gibs as a grad student under the current system is to do like Chinese/Indian grad students and shit out a kid while you're on 18k/yr TA salary.
This fucking article
" graduate students make less than 30k a year"
Yeah, like 21k a year average.
"This will upend the current phd system"
Good, it is a literal shit show ATM.
.t dr of bullshit science.
"I have a phd but cannot produce support for my claims when asked directly."
I love you user, never change.
>> cletus
>> take my phd and call up my "connections"
>> like a failing academia system wouldn't tarnish the reputation of the university and make your degree worthless next to someone who studied abroad.
I guess you could try to leave the country, but why would anyone hire you over the guy who studied at oxford. What terrible shitpost for you's.
>minuscule pay
I make $17k a year as a graduate student in a very prestigious program in STEaM. This summer I splurged and went to the dentist for the first time in 4 years. If and when I finish my PhD I'm likely never going to teach as the crushing weight of debt from my separate Masters is going to force me into industry. The new changes to the tax code might prevent me from finishing, period.
I simply don't make enough to pay rent, buy groceries and pay taxes on my wavered tuition. There's no way around it, pay grad students enough to live or watch your pool of free labor and future faculty dry up. This isn't Trump's fault, it's the universities' faults.
It was your choice to go to college cuck
Suck balls, pleb. I grew up the deformed kid in a working class family in one of the poorest states in the US. My choices were undergrad then work in my field then grad school 20 years later or go on disability. Go fuck yourself.
Q: What do you call 1000000 PhDs leaving the county?
A: A damn fine start.
>Q: What do you call 1000000 PhDs leaving the county?
The collapse of the information, biotech and fin-tech economy.
>STEaM
useless liberal arts major detected
I wish. This is the hardest thing I've ever done.
If you are getting a PhD you don't care about your quality of life anyway
>corrupt institutions abuse their grad students because they're run by greedy jewish businessmen masquerading as educators
>"wtf impeach drumpf now"
I hope it'll still be around for the next four years but the system is about to collapse. The system is too top heavy. I'm a grad student at a state university, and can personally attest that there are too many fuckers at the top getting paid a lot for doing nothing. We have Deans, associate deans, assistant deans, directors, associate and assistant directors, provosts, vice provosts and associate provosts. There is not a need for that many people at the top making 150+ doing jack shit. If this was a company there'd be a huge firing spree. There are also senior professors not teaching or accepting many grad students. The system will fall because degrees are losing their value. There are meme-tier engineers graduating now that frankly don't deserve to get engineering degrees because they cheated their way through the program. This is at a top ten school for mechanical engineering that's a state school.
>Ph.D students paying their fair share
Meh, cry me a river. It's income and part of your compensation, the university essentially just takes it out of your check before Uncle Sam has a chance to get his grubby little fingers on it. It's a tax break, and one I don't think it's unreasonable at all to get rid of.
Hardly. We need more blue shirts, less white collars. I'm not advocating zero PhDs, but we can be rid of most without issue.
PhD students have insanely high rates of mental illness, get em out of there
this, if you are going to put in 80 hour work weeks, you probably wont care about taxes
PhD student here - assuming the university admins aren't retarded, they'll just stop charging grad students tuition instead of charging us and then paying themselves a waiver. While this means a worse bottom line for universities with large graduate departments and big federal subsidies, it's the best option economically and logistically.
... or they'll be fucking retarded and start charging us full tuition and I'll have to either take out another $20K in loans to finish my plasma physics dissertation or take the MS and bail.
>we can be rid of most without issue.
Not gonna disagree with that. I'm surrounded by useless Marxist douchebags who couldn't even balance a checkbook. We do need more people with practical skills but also need people who can manage, direct and enable them to profit.
>It's a tax break, and one I don't think it's unreasonable at all to get rid of.
In a way, however, this is going to drive poor but hard working graduate students out of university and continue the cycle of useless, rich fuckholes at the top of the academy. I'm not sure how I'm going to finish if this passes unless my school steps up with more cash.
>take the MS and bail
This. That huge sucking sound you here is a lot of smart people leaving the academy forever. This leaves behind a whole chunk of Marxist idiots to continue corrupting the youth.
>here
hear. Fuck I'm tired.
Off-topic, but would you consider accounting to be STEM? I was planning on eventually getting a MAcc, and noticed that many institutions include Accountancy as being a STEM-related field of study that qualifies for STEM scholarships...there are others that consider it strictly business, though.
Pretty sure Accounting is almost universally treated as Business, not STEM. MBA, not MS.
Accounting isn't STEM it's JEW.
Holy shit most of the people in this thread are fucking retarded, legit room temperature iq retards. Thanks for reminding me why I should never visit this shit hole again.
>AGTOW
Please explain how an art major is going to pay literally any student loan. Please explain why banks should not be responsible for making bad decisions.
This. I'm an art major and i have 50 grand in student debt, and im never paying it off lol.
>FORGIVE THE LOANS
Only for STEM with good grades and certification.
you only become a slave because you want to be a slave. the United States is the intellectual wild west and if grad students can't out think a shoddy education system and hordes of american factory workers, then I don't know what else can be done to prop up the fantasy of highly educated equals highly paid. How little ambition do you have to possess to fucking lose in this economy?
Alot of phds ive met over the years are very hard working and confident, but minimally talented. Shitty colleges hand out phds like candy on halloween.
Source, i may or may not be a grad of the # uni in the states
No such thing as a bad loan when ole Uncle Sam is cosigning.
>Please explain why banks should not be responsible for making bad decisions.
So, the banks prevented the art major from studying something more practical and mundane in her spare time while still getting an art degree? The banks prevented the art major from doing proper research on jobs prospects and networking? Prevented her from being able to pivot with an art degree and make something of it? Prevented her from walking into every business in town and asking if they are hiring and taking a shitty job but gaining insight into working and appreciating even getting a degree? Prevented the art major from studying finance textbooks on her days off and learning how to manage and make the debt possibly work in her favor? What's the debt got to do with buying shitloads of used textbooks for super cheap and learning damn near anything you want even if you are stressed about loans and just want to smoke weed and watch netflix all night?
>art major
You deserve every bad thing that happens to you if you're an art major.
sharpy in your deformity
Good, doctors are some of the most arrogant overvalued people i've ever met. And they are dumb as shit if they are not talking about stuff in their specific field
>tfw graduated with PhD in Anime studies and landed a 175k starting job.
I'm lucky I got out before the bubble burst.
Vox is literally fake news.I know that term is being overused, but seriously Vox is one of the worst.
My first year of engineering school was tougher than a lot of these "phds".
Good PhD's a PhD students suck down tax payer money on bullshit like it's going out of style .
Exactly this, they can. I hate to dox self but I basically received exactly what you're describing, the tuition charge never even shows up. Where as others who did get a tuition waiver have to initially pay their tuition then the school refunds them.
>making a little over the bare minimum wage requirement for an h1-b visa that some pajeet could of taken
>making the right choice
They already do that. They make tuition some small amount, then bill everything else as "Fees & Services" to fuck over everyone else involved
What field are you studying? I'm a first year physics fag here and because of this i'm considering going into industry cuz fuck giving the fed more money.
Media Arts and Sciences. It's largely self-directed so I'm studying how the maker movement interacts with industry. It's probably career suicide at this point.
That isn't really a lot when a months rent in Tokyo is like 75k-80k
No retard, they're going to tax your tuition reimbursement.
>muh PhD
sure fuckwad
Yeah I would get out of there doesn't seem like its worth your time especially with the tax increase. I'm at least lucky cuz I was also an EE and had internships in the field. Honestly you should get a temp job while figuring out what you want to do in life. I can imagine this can be tough but if you work hard enough at something that has value someone will pay you for it. God speed user.
It's fucking retarded.
I make 22k a year before taxes and I moved back in with my family to afford health insurance. I barely make enough money to live, and now these gutless eunuchs are serving their masters by taking even more of my money for themselves.
The tax cut is miniscule; it's meant to rub our collective nose in shit while the elite take even more money. There is no reason this should exist.
Why grad students? Why not the fucking administration or already tenured faculty that make 120K a year?
The invention of the intern, aka slave labor for boomers, was the worst idea ever.
It's not even really a tax cut for us, it's a tax cut for the schools. The school is essentially paying itself the tuition and writing it off as part of employee payroll.
Modern (((education))) is just brainwashing we are better off with out them. We should reclaim universities and reinstate the trivium and quadrivium.
Paul Ryan is an objectivist. He thinks it's good to fuck over people on the bottom to benefit people on the top. Literally. He doesn't just not care, he actively wants to hurt poor people.
Print more money that will solve all our financial problems...right?
>High functioning STEM grads
These people have jobs that can pay off a loan
I had a similar experience earning my biochem PhD. worked like 70 hours a week, pulled many all nighters in the lab only to have experiments fail. And now I'm only earning 60K. I have a great education, but a nearly crushing amount of debt and pretty average income. I hope to work my way up once I get more experience in the industry.
The shitty thing about molecular biology and biochem is that the field is being flooded by people from China and India with these degrees who will work for next to nothing.
>mastered out with my thesis
>making the same money now as a paid TA
>"work" 3 days a week
>gonna get paid the same over the summer too while I have 3 months off
I got out while the getting was good. Since my defense my heart rate has measurably dropped from the lowered stress. The demands PIs put on you are absolutely insane, and I had a pretty relaxed boss as far as they go. I still don't have a real job but I'm going to enjoy my transition back to reality.
pic related, it's a pretty good analogy to being a PhD student
>if the brightest and most educated people start fleeing the country in droves to get access to higher education?
Mother fucker, almost half of post grads are foreign nationals. It is adult daycare for those with the resources or delusion of becoming adjunct professors after 8 years of higher ed. Some of these Doctors are going to do something with their studies but most are going to find the margin of a Academic Journal and call it good when they land a Junior College prof job or research job for a corp.
Bachelors are where it is at in STEM where they interface with technicians and the talented actually get shit done while improving manufacturing and observed results.
Public Education should be dismantled. The Education system has been sabotaging generations of people so that they not only do not learn anything, but also become unable to learn in the future. We have people at Universities that do not know what a vowel is. That's why companies nowadays have to hire their employees overseas, because even if foreigners are ignorant, they are at least trainable.
>temp job while figuring out what you want to do in life
I already know what I'm doing and thought this would move the ball forward. I don't need a temp job, I need an investor. The PhD was my route to that investor.