I am a systems engineer. I make the equivalent of 110K USD a year. I am a communist because even at my pay grade, the surplus value my labor generates is siphoned off to make the owners of my company wealthy.
Explain to me why it is in *MY* interest to support capitalism. Unless I literally own a corporation, I don't see how it benefits me or anybody else materially.
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110 million bodies.
Because if you don't show up to work one day under capitalism the most you'd be out of is a job
communism is bullshit
its just a way for the evil and manipulative people that have nothing to steal from other people but disguise it as "redistribution of wealth" and "justice for the working man".
my country and my family lived through communism and it's total bullshit.
Ok try running a business without an owner
It's like a chicken without a head
It might twitch and kick for a while but eventually it will collapse without a sense of direction
You need your boss and that's that
Fascism is way better anyway.
If you think your skills and labor are worth more than what the company is paying you, why don't you branch out on your own? In true capitalism you can do this because it's a level playing field.
Your country was a nightmare before communism.
Cuck logic.
comrade, I make only 30k, so as a communist you have to send me at least 40k so we will have an equal outcome.
In the span of 4 years, I've gone from making < $20,000 a year to making $250,000 a year. I've been on both rungs, I'm under 35. Shit has happened close enough that I still have perspective on what its like to live in both states.
Listen very closely, because it's so simple that you have to be a fucking moron to not understand it:
Your labor can only be valuable in two contexts - as a service to a singular individual, or as a service in a larger business organism. You have CHOSEN to offer your services in the latter way, and in that context, your labor has a fixed value regarding how impactful it is on the business you chose as your employer.
If you want to switch to the other context - direct compensation for direct labor - then BECOME A FUCKING CONTRACTOR AND TURN YOUR LABOR INTO YOUR OWN BUSINESS. You set your own rates, hours, and level of quality. You have ZERO dependency on ANYONE except those who ask your service and you agree to serve in return.
This option has existed since the dawn of fucking human intelligence, yet self avowed socialists act as if they have no options within a capatalist society. And you know why? Because you're all fucking cowards who want the security of a full time job, with the direct 1:1 compensation that is only available to those who risk their own stability in order to truly own their own labor.
Grow some balls and step out on your own, or SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP.
There was no country with Communism ever, all they got was socialism mixed with dictatorship in different proportions. Also current so called capitalism or democracy fits more of fascist goverment than anything. Labelling it as capitalism is marketing bs.
As system engineer you can get job elsewhere, move out of japan to place that pays better (compared to living costs) and does not demand you working 24/7. I would suggest somewhere in europe or nordic. With more free time (or any time and energy left) after work you can start thinking about having own buisness and working for yourself.
>I don't see how it benefits me
Well, you're currently living better than probably at least 90% of the world. So increased quality of life would be a good start at why you should support it.
Seeing as how there isn't a single six figure earning "communist" on the planet, I'm going to assume you're a berniebum that majored in womens studies who can't find a job.
Unless I were a one-man business, how could I employ somebody profitably without exploiting their surplus labor? Under ideal conditions I would break even. The solution is not individual entrepreneurship when the system itself is exploitative.
Build a company yourself. There are plenty of people doing exactly this right now. It doesn't matter If you fail or succeed, you'll understand why entrepreneuship needs to pay off in the case of success.
When will you send me 40000 comrade, so we will be equals?
Then start your own business and work for yourself.
>believing in surplus value
Now there's your problem.
You don't make your company's shit. You just supply labor. Your boss makes your company's shit.
You're on a slippery slope to everyone farming on communals with zero specialization and division of labor.
That was savage, desu.
You fucking murdered the OP.
Best post I've ever seen from a lolberg. Nip commie BTFO
>under capitalism I make 110k a year
>I don't see how it benefits me or anybody else materially.
Under gommunism you'll get half a bowl of rice and a turnip per day.
This as well
>Literally every commie revolution is ran by Jews
>End result is massive loss of life and cripplingly destruction of the country.
>"Hurr y it bad tho"
>unironically saying "that wasn't real communism"
>tfw you're stupid enough to become a living meme
Gas yourself, Mao
that isn't communism in of itself, that's poor leadership
capitalism can suffer from its own woes as well if mismanaged.
both systems work if implemented correctly... but no one has done it yet. if they have, we would all use that system. they all have problems. you just need to find one that works for how your countrys economy is working.
desu this would all be easier with a one world government. let's just do it already.
>one world government. let's just do it already.
fuck off leaf.
Reject both capitalism and socialism.
Choose the third option, fascism.
Without capitalism, you company wouldn't exist.
>Your country was a nightmare before communism.
Yeah true. But I don't see how any of this has to do with you being a lazy loser that wants 'equality' for all, when really you want what the rich people have but not wanting to work for it.
You just want everyone to stoop down to your level, loser.
If you're so good and invaluable, why don't you ask for more money?
Under communism, you wouldn’t be allowed to make anywhere close to 110k. But the oligarchs you complain about would still end up rich.
Capitalism and communism are different forms of oligarchy. Capitalism allows for the existence of a middle class. Communism makes almost everyone poor.
>desu this would all be easier with a one world government. let's just do it already.
you're such a fucking little kid.
fuck off.
your idea sounds good but it'll end up killing millions of people because human beings are greedy, selfish creatures that just want to procreate.
go work for yourself then
Capitalism creates the demand for your labor. Without that demand, your 110k will turn into 20k.
>muh exploitation
Then start your own company you dumbfuck and stop crying.
More communist fucking gobbledygook.
Let's try a thought exercise where 1 point of labor value is worth $10,000 or 100 hours of working time (manhours). All three are equal: 1 point = $10,000 = 100 hours = 1 point
Let's say you cut down some trees, and that has a labor value of 1, but cost you no cash... it just took you 100 hours.
You then pay someone to help you assemble the timber into a cabin. This has a labor value of one.
Once the cabin is built, you pay the contractor EXACTLY the worth of his invested labor hour... $10,000. You've broken by saving yourself 100 hours of work, and paying that contractor exactly $10,000 - he converted his time into money through the use of labor.
Now, the contractor is gone, and you're down $10,000 and 100 hours of your own time. You wish to sell the home.
You set the price at $25,000, the additional $5,000 accounting for the time you invested in organization, in taking the chance with the only financial investment so far ($10,000 you paid the contractor), and to account for the expected time you believe it will take you to sell the cabin.
You sell the cabin for $25,000 to a willing person who believe the cabin is worth that much due to them not having to do ANY of the above.
You: .5 labor points ahead of where you started
Contractor: Effectively converted labor into cash at a 1:1 basis
Buyer: Converted cash into a home valued by materials, man hours, and risk/management.
This is capitalism, and NO ONE WAS EXPLOITED.
Jesus fucking christ, how can you people not get this.
Without their infrastructure, capital, marketing and general business sense, you wouldn't be making $110k a year. Jesus Christ, this shit isn't hard to understand, you fucking brainlet.
Your life under capitalism
>can rely on the country to remain stable enough for you to put money in a bank
>can afford lots of different-leveled needs, not ideal but better than many
Your life under communism:
>can afford food but can't buy it
>toilet paper is a luxury item, you have to wipe your ass with rich in lead newspapers
>county falls apart, into chaos, and in 3 years you're living in an ancap shitfest selling Chinese plastic shit near the subway to feed your family with something other than bare flour
> REAL x hasn’t been tried!
Dude. I can’t believe someone unironically said this in the current year.
>implying people aren't dying already
i'm not a little kid. i've been around long enough to know that what we're doing obviously isn't working so i try to put out new ideas.
Try to efficiently decide what to do with resources without a price system. I'll wait. Maybe in a few years when we have some crazy advance A.I we can have this Utopian top down system to decide how to effectively distribute scarce resources. Till then your commie dreams are fucked.
because all communist countries were/are total shitholes. hardly anyone who experienced communism will advocate for it.
Mankind evolved to its current physical and mental capacity through hardship in a processed called 'natural selection.' Capitalism is natural selection realized within the fiscal world in modern era. If you cannot thrive, then it is because you are unable due to your own limitations, commitment and ingenuity. It's that simple.
Those at the top, whether they rig the game or monopolize it or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the 1% has the 99% under their heel, and that is a testimony of genetic success. Fucking deal with it.
You can either make your peace with the fact that you are not special, or you can fight and try to make society observe you and history remember you. Otherwise, shut up and stop whining.
Because you earn 110K USD a year working as an engineer instead of starving to death in a working camp.
This
The problem iv'e always had with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is that it can only work for a percentage of the population. There is literally not enough market space for everyone to "make it", and having winners implies having losers.
Without welfare or some equivalent, the starving masses would literally eat the rich, and so these systems are not in place so much for the sake of the misfortune, but for the security of those at the top.
i didn't say "real communism wasn't tried"
because it was. that part of the transition from capitalism that all nations/states must go through require the centralized government representing the bolsheviks. problem is that no one has ever gotten out of that stage because they've always been headed by power hungry military leader dictatorships that take it by force.
it is *real* communism, it's just not completed.
it's not my dude
capitalism is so intrinsically combined with the idea of libertarian free will
the idea that we are more than our circumstances and genetics, when in reality, our thoughts, opinions, actions are completely shaped by those two things alone
capitalism appeals to these people because they believe in the delusional fantasy of 'you only get what you put in' because they're fucking morons
you get fucked no matter what, life is pure luck
One more thing, Soviet
>Have to wait several months before you can pick up your peas, along with the letter that states so from the government.
> The problem iv'e always had with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is that it can only work for a percentage of the population.
There will always be some with more than others - this is the natural state of life on our planet at all levels, and is based on performance and preparation.
What you're missing here is that if everyone, even the lowest have nots, pull themselves as far as they can go (and even the poorest man can find a way out of an inner city slum and onto a farm somewhere, if they actually care to do so), then the quality of life of all, ESPECIALLY the lowest tier, comes up objectively, even if it's still far below the subjective measurement of the top 1%.
Why don't you start your own business then?
That's most because too many dumb fucks have been breeding partly because of social programs. What are you going to do when you don't have to work? Just sit around and fuck all day. We have a sort of reverse eugenics going on in modern society.
Also I don't accept the "winners must mean there's losers" idea. Trade isn't a 0 sum game. Obviously people can get exploited and that sucks but over all it's a net benefit.
>wahhh, i am expected to produce more than i consume. it sucks being a man. i wish i had a vagina and people would provide their excess value to me instead. i hate having to shoulder the burden of carrying my people forward.
communism is the most faggoty, anti-masculine, pussified ideology in history.
You are and will remain worthless for the entirety of your life. I pity you.
this literally never happens though
usually because of stupidity and greed from either side
If you are a systems engineer, then answer the following. What's the most efficient way to manage threads: have a lot of management threads that are necessary to manage all the lower tier threads or have all the threads manage themselves according to their own circumstances? Which method do you think would be best if you had billions of threads?
One of these is communism and the other one is capitalism.
we are just fleshy machines
the idea that humans have intrinsic value is delusional
Nice LARP, but communism is for faggots and failures.
Thats literally how business is done at all levels - anyone who thinks otherwise is either a child, inexperienced in business management, or a fucking moron.
In your case, I'm betting on a semi-educated (some college, no degree) 17-20 year old who's never done anything of note due to lack of ambition. I hope I'm right, because if you're older than that and think this way, you're a drain on everyone around you.
This is similar to what I said earlier and cannot be stated enough.
Open trade beats out a planned economy every time. It's not perfect. No one with a brain thinks capitalism is perfect. It's easily the best thing we have though.
We and our efforts have value in so far as we can impact the lives of others. Believing life is all luck is a cop out at best, and a cowards excuse at worst.
Send me half your salary then. If you don't reply OP your mother will die tonight
So Mr Systems engineer, create your own business, and be your own boss...
>but i dont want to assume all of the risks a business man makes!
Top yourself. Adults pity you for a reason.
Nigga capitalism is fine. It's imperialism that is batshit crazy just as communism.
Just stick to constitutionnal capitalism + socialism
>even the poorest man can find a way out of an inner city slum and onto a farm somewhere, if they actually care to do so
Ok, but why should they have to? We have more than enough food to go around, why make them go through the token effort of finding the smallest sliver of meaningful work if its just going to end up in the trash like so much else we produce?
And if there isn't meaningful work for every single person in our country, then capitalism implies that some people must by necessity live in a slum hellscape, and I just wont accept that.
Found OP:
youtube.com
Start it around 2:10. He talks just like him.
Share ownership of your company with the other workers.
Hey man, if you want to off your *alleged* 110k a year you could give it to me so I can feed my borderline alcoholic tendencies towards drinking
i ok if you will make revolution to build communism in japan.
What specific work do you do that adds so much value to your company? "Systems engineering" isn't an occupation or a task to be done.
>The only overhead my boss has is my labor
Fucking neck yourself.
Aside from the commie part, I'm sure your entire post is a lie. Please, kys.
>Buy stock,
>be responsible stockholder,
>be part-owner in this company and vote to lower your and your bosses salaries and have more reinvested in the company.
what is the problem here?
Start your own company if you're so valuable then faggot. Thats the freedom you have under capitalism. In communism your surplus value would be siphoned off by the state. Either system is subservient to technology anyway... read Ellul's The Technological Society
start your own company?
Exactly, but for some reason people don't seem to understand this simple concept. If you look at how cells work together to create a distinct animal, then you'll find a similar situation: cells almost fully manage themselves. There are relatively few cells that "take commands" from some central position.
Once the number of actors becomes large enough a method like capitalism is the only efficient way.
> surplus value
Hahahaha
>Explain to me why it is in *MY* interest to support capitalism.
In communism you would be making equivalent of 1k USD a year all while making (((glorious party leaders))) wealthy.
All these capitalist cucks
If you yourself are literally not your own boss your being stolen from and being cucked like men who get off from finical domination. J-just wait I'll be rich one day
YASSSS QUEEN SLAAAAAAAYYYYYYY
You're not exploiting them faggot. Thats just a jew point of view. You are providing them with valuable employment. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement.
日共不器用,無能。安倍小泉等政治家族財閥主日本政治。
CHICOMS ARE ON Sup Forums
RED ALERT.
On reading Sup Forums one should realize that literally everything is run by the jews. Even the jews themselfs. Your contry and all the capitalism in it is run by the jews as well. And it costs lives also, poor asians and arab-niggers knows what im talking about. So it's not an argument.
Save your money and start your own company... duh. Or would you prefer Communism where you actually make less or nothing and still have to work?
t. please raise my taxes shekelstein and please fuck my ass harder jamal
kill yourself faggot
i will admit that i was being hyperbolic when i said that never happens
i'm not actually a communist, i just feel like the incredibly negative kneejerk reaction to communist isn't actually fair and there is some intellectual merit to some of the ideas proposed by marx and his merry band
you're half right, personally i don't think i lack ambition, but i could be wrong
as for my edgy "human's have no intrinsic value and reality is entirely deterministic" stick while i truly believe this i think you really shouldn't think about it because it's quite an upsetting idea to come to terms with
but something that is important to take away from that is society is an incredibly complex organism within which people are exposed to an absolutely insane amount of contributing factors which interact in ways which we are probably never going to measure
some people just can't succeed in certain situations, they can't save themselves, most of these criminals, rapists, school shooters, petty thieves just don't know better
i am ABSOLUTELY NOT advocating that we just let these people run free, obviously they need to be removed from society. my point is through preventative measures and trying to improve living standards we could avoid some of these catastrophes
a lot of these preventative measures which have been proven successful in the UK, US and many other countries are opposed by most republicans and often not actually pushed by democrats
i think the way capitalism as a system through unintentional social conditioning from parents and other inputs makes it so that for generations most families will struggle to increase their social, cultural and economic capital is something that could be looked at and amended without undermining the core tenets of capitalism
im sorry for the initial edgy little fuck response that probably prompted the hostility, i understand why that might've been frustrating
>there are still people who unironically support communism
Grow the fuck up already. Christ.....
Amerifats fear commie.
>money is the only thing that motivates people
Capitalism would be fine if people didn't actually operate like this. Why is it so rare for a companies primary motivation to simply be to provide the best possible life for its employees?
>implying there's taxes in Communism.
Libertarians should love it
Smart western people don't fear commies we hate commies your just as bad as the fucking Nazis or Imperial Japan.
THIS.
/thread
Everyone are equal, untill proven otherwise. Do you think you are different because of your taste and things that is in your possession? Or maybe its your precious personality with all your shitty opinions, that doesnt matter that makes you different? This is ridiculous how all of western people believe in that muh everyone is unique bullshit. Who cares what you think and do if you cannot actually change anything? People are sheep, and this idea of everyone's uniqueness is just there to make you lazy and passive consumers.
>the incredibly negative kneejerk reaction to communism isn't actually fair
it's entirely warranted
commies are the most narcissistic entitled stupid people you will ever meet
lurk more
10/10
I tip my hat to you good sir
You're not labouring with your own property, if you did you would keep 100% of your surplus. But instead of using your own property you are using someone elses, and so you dont get to keep 100%. No one is stopping you from making your own business and running it with a communist model. And if the communist model was better, the free market would push us into a marxist style system by default.
It's alright that you got edgy, whatever, I used to do that shit, too, when I was your age.
Yes, life and humans have no measurable value in the grand sense - I'm just as atheist and nihilist in that sense as you are, trust me.
But take it from someone who's been one week away from being homeless, and who now less than 10 years later (and still under 35) is creeping up to mid 6 figures in yearly income - no amount of luck or circumstance can overcome your own preparation and effort. Luck goes both ways - some good, some bad. But if you're a focused individual who, KNOWING humans and our lives have no great cosmic value, nontheless sees value in pursuing as much success and as many experiences as this life can offer, you'll find yourself skyrocketing towards your goals, both short and long term.
Become the most value person you can be, to those around you and to society as a whole, and try real fucking hard every fucking day... and you'll not only find success and wealth, you'll find happiness in the efforts, the successes, the failures, and the journey.
Just please don't ever check the fuck out or start following nonsense like communism because it feels like an easy way to avoid the work and the struggle. There's a lot fucking more out there to enjoy and experience, and to fill up the day of your life than that.