I am a Roman Catholic. I agree entirely with Catholic doctrine and theology. I actually intend on becoming a Monk. However, I am in strong opposition to the current Pope. I have researched the Sedevacantists but find them lacking. Today, I see the Orthodoxy as the hope for Christianity moving forward.
My question for you all is twofold. 1. As Orthodoxy continues to grow and traditionalist Catholics continue to grow weary of Post Vatican 2 Catholicism, will the Eastern Orthodox Church become the largest Christian church? 2. Do my complaints against the Pope and against the modern liberal Church warrant a conversion from the Catholic church to Orthodoxy?
>He follows a religion where an elected priest can sentence you to hell on a whim.
Wew lad, if the papal States of the past wasnt enough to redpill you on how corrupt the papacy is then nothing will.
Ryder Phillips
Monks are resource-wasting blights. You'd be better off just killing yourself.
John Scott
you could become a Lutheran. its basically Catholic Lite, now with 0 popes. switch back when theres a new pope you like
Aiden Sanders
Stay strong in the Catholic faith, brother. There is growing opposition to the present pope, maybe even a schism is brewing. All of this was foretold by Our Lady ("apostasy will start from the top"). I suggest you start researching marian apparitions (Fatima, La Salette, Akita and many others). The Pope is servant to the true faith, not the other way round. It's already happened in the history of the Church that a pope was declared a heretic and excommunicated post-mortem. Do not let present and future abhorrent declarations from Bergoglio steer you away from catholic doctrine.
Xavier Davis
You're a shill please remove yourself
Jason Roberts
>As Orthodoxy continues to grow
It isn't. The idea that you leave Catholicism because you don't like the Pope is to gravely misunderstand Catholicism.
Wyatt Collins
I don't like modern popes either particularly this Francis guy who is the worst pope yet but, personally I do not want to jump ship just because I don't like the pope.
Christopher Bell
Popes come and go. The Church is here to stay.
Colton Murphy
>it isn't >there's no comparison on his graph Russians and most of other Orthodox Christians lived under atheist regime for decades. Orthodoxy is growing.
John Nguyen
*I'm not Orthodox (well, not practicing), but I'm just pointing out the idiocy of your post.
James Hill
Op, firstly, forget ultramontanism, pope cannot change doctrine, like never. Even all controversies in Amoris Laeticiae are merely pastoral directions for exceptions which can be reverted very simply. And also, communion at hand is legally still exception and not the norm like it is in practice. Our dislike of current pope must not challenge our faith in the church, we survived Borgias. It is crisis of the Church yes, but Church have survived many crisis. That said, you can look into traditionalist communities like FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, SSPX (their status is not regular, so approach with caution) or individual monasteries, in Europe traditionalist one is Heiligenkreuz in Austria which is full of young people as candidates.
That said, gap between orthodoxy and catholicism isn't that big, because this is schism and not heresy - both denomination recognise eachorthers priests and sacraments, despite growing influence of protestant heretics on catholic church. Union between orthoxy and catholicism is possible and easy (union of Brest) and it is talked about in prophecy of Fatima.
I wish you well on your spiritual quest user and remember: Etiam si omnes, ego non
Wyatt Bell
user, you say you are thinking of leaving the one true church. I hope you choose one that is in communion with ours. Remember, "salus extra ecclesiam non est. qui non pertinent ad civitas dei, pertinent ad civitas diaboli". This is the cornerstone of our religion, there is NO salvation outside the church. Choose carefully.
Jayden Green
You're doing the right thing. There's no coming back from Francis.
Jose Turner
>Episcopalian "Along the way, The Episcopal Church has garnered a lot of attention, but with the help of organizations such as Integrity USA, the church has continued its work toward full inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) Episcopalians. In 2003, the first openly gay bishop was consecrated; in 2009, General Convention resolved that God’s call is open to all; in 2012, a provisional rite of blessing for same-gender relationships was authorized, and discrimination against transgender persons in the ordination process was officially prohibited; and in 2015, the canons of the church were changed to make the rite of marriage available to all people, regardless of gender."
wew
Carter Butler
How much do you actually study and understand theology?
And why a Monk instead of a Priest? Do you understand how short the Church is on Priests in modern times? It's absolutely urgent.
Jaxson White
1. no because satan attacks real enemies , Orthodoxy will be under fire and might as well not grow much, at least not until after WW3.
2. it's up to you, Orthodoxy is quite hard to follow seriously, I personally fail every day .
Easton Jones
It's counter intuitive to human nature. It's built and designed knowing the practitioner will fail. "Oh, you broke a rule? Here, tell me what you did wrong. See you next week!" Read the gospel of Judas.
Isaac Mitchell
it's not counter-intuitive at all , it's actually very human , an not what you seem to think, but in the times we live in satan has usurped what it means to be human and teaches a false example , satan is pretty evil he starts by attacking the minds of people when they're kids
Parker Torres
To answer your questions. 1. I don't think Orthodoxy will become the largest Christian church any time soon, although they are making strides in Japan, China, Kenya, South Sudan, Madagascar, Guatemala, and perhaps most surprisingly, from what I here, areas within the Gulf. In short, likely not, but they are growing. 2. I would be inclined to agree. Protestantism was formed in response to corruption within Catholicism, while there was already another church in the East, one with ancient roots already in protest of the Roman Church. Maybe you could become an Eastern Catholic (basically Orthodox for all intents and purposes but submit to Rome nominally) and make efforts to end the schism between the churches.
Eli Ramirez
>leaving your religion just because the head is degenerate.
Stay because of your belief in tradition and teachings, not because of men.
Camden Johnson
>t.brainlet.
Jayden Brooks
OC needs to spread to more places and not consist of just groups of immigrants before it will take off. Up north there is plenty of this but the rest of the US is very sparse and only immigrants.
Jackson Harris
San Antonio TX has 1-2 Greek Orthodox Churches here, which are mainly people born here in town.
Ayden Carter
I have a lot of respect for the intense, sublime understanding the Catholics have regarding Demons, and Faith.
That Pope-Faggot is the Spawn of Satan.
.
Dylan Cruz
Don't leave Catholicism. Many people wonder about this pope. Talk to your pastor, pray and ask God for discernment.
Julian Miller
Just re-checked in my local area and they have actually built a nice OC. Seems like a decent population. A few years back the location was a strip mall.
Connor Carter
Yeah, the OC is pretty low key, and that's something I admire about it. A few points of doctrine make me go ???
Cameron Smith
>Today, I see the Orthodoxy as the hope for Christianity moving forward.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU LARPERS????
Juan Johnson
It is illogical to convert to the Orthodox Church because you don't like the current pope.
You should convert to Orthodoxy because you are persuaded that the Catholic teachings of papal infallibility, the supreme universal jurisdiction of the pope, the filioque, etc are heresies.
Let me give you a hint: the papacy in its current form has no precedent in the early church. Once you scratch the surface of your Catholic Answers Apologetics 101 arguments you will find that there is not much there to support the idea that a single bishop merits supreme global authority over every other member of the Church because his see is located in the same geographical area where St Peter is rumored to have presided after he was bishop of Antioch.
Bentley Thomas
The last few popes haven't even taken the historical papal vows. It's depressing
Luis James
croat opinion discarded
Hunter Foster
I just checked and in my Area there are now several OC parishes. What are the differences? There is a Russian OC church near me, a what I would call standard OC, and then there is a "Melkite Greek Catholic Church". What is that exactly?
Zachary Fisher
>implying Orthodoxy did this and not communism
Dylan Myers
Check 'em out! Just don't take communion. You should be able to see some differences just from services.
Joseph Flores
I watched videos of some of their services. It seems the differences are mostly ethnic from what I can tell. I will make contact with them and see what happens. Thanks.
Joshua Martin
Melkites are Catholic. They are in communion with the Pope, although they believe practically all the same things that the Eastern Orthodox do. So you might say they are not logically consistent.
Eli Miller
Eastern Catholics. Christians who adhere to Orthodox rituals, customs, and rules, but nominally submit to Rome, who agrees not to fuck with them too much.
Evan Cook
>what are the differences A Russian orthodox church will ultimately not accept you because you are not Russian. A Greek orthodox church will ultimately not accept you because you are not Greek.
Dylan Cook
I thought this. The Russians one kind of seems that way here. The standard OC is all mostly local converts from what their website states.
Cooper Robinson
The latter is not always true. All kinds of people go to my GOC. It's in a big city.
Colton Cox
Fuck off, we're full! We don't need faggots like the OP who don't believe in salvation by grace alone or the supreme authority of scripture infecting the rechte Lehre of the Lutheran Church as found in the confessional statements in the Book of Concord with hiss papist bullshit. OP is just butthurt because the magesterium which up until recently he was willing to trust has made decisions he dislikes.
das wort sie sollen lassen stahn und kein dank dazu haben
Jayden Ramirez
Then lucky for you? The orthodox memes exist for a reason. They will tolerate you at best but there will always be that underlying, "well, so and so isn't a 'real' greek and just a convert." Converts will always be 2nd and even third class citizens in an orthodox church because you didn't grow up with it. Even then they get shitty amongst themselves, "oh they came to the liturgy but didn't go to vespers so we're better than them." Don't get me wrong. I think the services, the singing, and the icons are all beautiful, but orthodoxy has a lot of issues mainly within the congregation that need serious addressing before it will gain any kind of traction. > t. Catcheumen
Jordan Long
This pope is illegitimate, his election was fraudulent and all his doings will be reversed in the next years. On the other hand, the Orthodox Church continues to be a mere extension of the Russian State and will problably stay that way for many decades.
Do not give up.
Connor Stewart
> the Orthodox Church continues to be a mere extension of the Russian State
Ive thought about this. Im sure the us gov watches ROC like they do Muslim Imams. Definetly something to consider.
Hudson Cruz
>I am in strong opposition to the current Pope. Then you are not Catholic. If religion is something you pick to suit your current mood then you might as well be an atheist and fuck off.
Evan Wood
You can have legit reasons to question the Catholic Church. It doesn't always align itself with the teachings of Jesus. Like priests that diddle little kids. Hardly acceptable.
Nathaniel Martin
>I agree entirely with Catholic doctrine and theology. I actually intend on becoming a Monk. However, I am in strong opposition to the current Pope. The defining belief of a Roman Catholic is being in communion with the Pope, not Jesus Christ. Before I'm accused of being ignorant about what Roman Catholics really believe, look at the definition of Papal infallibility/Papal supremacy and how the Pope has changed Catholic doctrine: salvation for Jews, usury, that Muslims worship the same God as Roman Catholics and not a demon, etc. You can't claim to believe in what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and deny the absolute supremacy of the Pope. That said, you have seen with your own eyes that the Pope has deviated from what you know Jesus Christ taught, which means the Orthodox must be the true Church of Jesus Christ.
>I suggest you start researching marian apparitions Marian apparitions are demonic.
Zachary Cook
> Converts will always be 2nd and even third class citizens in an orthodox church because you didn't grow up with it. Even then they get shitty amongst themselves, "oh they came to the liturgy but didn't go to vespers so we're better than them."
Funny how I've never encountered any of that. Pretty much everyone is represented in the congregation. Even higher ups in this church were converts.
Maybe I am lucky.
Isaac Brown
>I agree entirely with Catholic doctrine and theology. >However, I am in strong opposition to the current Pope.
You believe that the Pope was chosen through the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and that his words when spoken ex cathedra are from the mouth of God Himself, but you're opposed to the Pope?
You're just another variety of Cafeteria Catholic, my friend.
Bentley Rodriguez
they are both fake
Brandon Wood
How old are you, OP? In the last few years, basically since I became a father, I have re-integrated myself into the Catholic Church. I have the exact same hesitations and thoughts on Orthodoxy.
Blake Miller
I am othodox. As long as you are not a subhuman protestan I'm fine with you
Joshua Martin
Doesn't actually work this way. You can rebel against the church authority, but this effectively means that you see a cataclysmic battle within the church, or that Satan has taken it over.
Grayson Collins
No, it's just a Cucktholic falseflagger
Noah Wood
Orthodox and Catholics are not Christian.
Both of these "popes" are covering their heads and both are wearing long robes and doing things that Jesus warned about.
STOP IT.
Dylan Martinez
>the Orthodox Church continues to be a mere extension of the Russian State This is a slanderous Jesuit lie. The Orthodox Church is a communion of autocephalous local churches. Even if the Russian State has influence over the local Orthodox Church in Russia (for which you have no evidence), that does not mean it has influence over the local Orthodox churches in Constantinople, in Alexandria, in Antioch, in Jerusalem, etc.
Asher Mitchell
Russian Orthodox Churches in America broke away in case of this very reason at the time of the Russian Revolution. Research the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.
Charles Baker
1. Yes. 2. I don't know. How do you feel in your heart? Maybe you can make Catholic church better by your activity.
Nathaniel Cook
Orthodoxy is hypocrisy. Orthodoxy is and was always a political tool. Orthodoxy is no "Church", they can't assemble councils, they fight for political power all the time, hell there are "orthodox" national "churches" that aren't even recognized by other, but are recognized by others again. It's complete bullshit and they have lost track, fully.
Our Pope is good, he is a hard but loving and kind man. If you have a problem with him, you probably have a problem with yourself, because you want to make religion something political, which it isn't. Thinking about it, "orthodoxy" is prolly the thing for you ... except you really want to be a Christian. In that case keep your ass away from the posers.
Read on orthodoxy (apart from literally all Church Fathers): "Russia and the Universal Church" by Solovyev. You will see
Zachary Anderson
>reeeeeee false flagger! There's nothing wrong with orthodoxy! Ok.
Ryan Butler
>Catholic vs. Orthodox AIDS vs. Cancer
Josiah Barnes
You can't blame communism for everything doofus. The people are degenerate, because they choose to be - not because Stalin made em do it. Retard
Chase Myers
Catholocism appeals to many exactly because it's more distant from Christianities Semitic roots.
Isaiah Taylor
I have been considering this when contemplating the Pope and RCC.
> Isaiah 43:7 “Everyone who is called by My name, whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him . "
> Romans 9:21 : Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Just adding my own thoughts to the conversation and looking for input.
Ethan Butler
t. Jesuit spreading ecumenist misinformation
Orthodox believe that the Roman Catholic Church is schismatic, heretical, and lacks Apostolic Succession, valid Sacraments, and the grace of the Holy Spirit.
Jackson Allen
2008. lol. what about 2017?
Luis Gomez
Not an argument.
Nolan Nguyen
> Fully agrees with Catholicism > t. Satanist
John Morris
Note: There is no "Roman Catholic Church". The Church is catholic and it happens that he Holy See of Peter is located in Rome. This is a protestant meme and it has to stop, because it implies there are other "catholic" churches, such as "orthodoxy", which is not the case. They are apostolic, yes, but far from being catholic.
Grayson Jones
Its just a name. And as we can see from above the Melkite Greek Catholic Church does exist.
Connor Wright
You retard are aware that they name themselves like that, because they are orthodox but in communion with Rome, right ? They literally are part of the Catholic Church. They are "Eastern Catholics", which is still Catholic.
It is a meme and it has to stop - you obviously bought into it.
Landon Flores
Orthodoxy is hypocrisy. Orthodoxy is and was always a political tool. Orthodoxy is no "Church", they can't assemble councils, they fight for political power all the time, hell there are "orthodox" national "churches" that aren't even recognized by other, but are recognized by others again. It's complete bullshit and they have lost track, fully.
Catholicism is hypocrisy, Orthodoxy is legit they can assemble councils, it is the catholics who can't because they're alone and a complete farce.
There is no Christ in the Western churches at all with the exception of a few monasteries and some very strong in faith pastors. The Christian experience of Orthodoxy is sublime if you can follow it.
>Our Pope is good, he is a hard but loving and kind man. Methinks you lost the plot.
>Read on orthodoxy (apart from literally all Church Fathers) why not read the church fathers, I get my daily Orthodox sermon from them, and their lives. There's a lot of irony in your post throughout . I think you're trying mean the inverse of what you say.
Jace Roberts
Catholics aren't Christians. They are Mormon-tier LARPers with a mere man (not Jesus Christ) as their head.
Joseph Walker
Names are distinctions. Ill try to restrain myself so I dont trigger you though.
Bentley Ortiz
Sorry I was too harsh. I'm just saying, there is only one true Catholic Church, Melkites are part of it - they actually are one of the only few ethnic churches that never schism'd.
And there is no "Roman Catholic Church" - as I explained earlier
Grayson Thomas
What you mean is the part of the Catholic Church that celebrates the Latin Rite. That is "Western Catholicism", if you really want to make a distinction.
Owen Thompson
The Pope and Jesuits supported the Bolsheviks and the Russian Revolution because they thought it would break the Orthodox Church in Russia and give them a chance to spread their cancerous religion. It didn't work out as they hope but the blood of tens of millions of Christians is on their hands.
Hunter Russell
Caveat: I am Orthodox
>1. As Orthodoxy continues to grow and traditionalist Catholics continue to grow weary of Post Vatican 2 Catholicism, will the Eastern Orthodox Church become the largest Christian church? I don't think so. They may come closer to parity than they are now, as cultural Catholicism will vanish much sooner, but there are many Catholics around the world.
>2. Do my complaints against the Pope and against the modern liberal Church warrant a conversion from the Catholic church to Orthodoxy? Do you believe you can be saved in the Catholic Church? If not, you must convert to Orthodoxy. If you do believe you can be saved in a Pozzed Catholic Church, then hunker down and pray your rosary and do what you can.
I would welcome you into Orthodoxy because the pozzed clergy are extremely few and far between, and the laity serve as a very strong deterrent. Orthodox lay people will not put up with bullshit, they will sooner drag a bishop teaching heresy out of the church and throw him in the street than listen to him prattle.
Austin Reed
> German > acknowledges harshness
Parker Sanders
Are you me?
Liam Peterson
lol'd at your life if you really think that.
Colton Smith
At least Russians have a Church to return to. Anglicans on the other hand...
Levi Brown
Despite all larping of "crusade" in Russian war against Syrian rebels and islamist groups, eastern orthodoxy loves and tolerates muslims.
Nathan Turner
Oh no, Rome TOTALLY didn't want to destroy the Russian Church.
It just so happens that the "apparition" at Fatima, where "Our Lady" told the Pope to consecrate Russia to the LATIN devotion of the Sacred Heart happened around the same time as the Russian Revolution.
No connection at all.
Ryder Hill
The official name of the Orthodox Church is the Orthodox Catholic Church.
Nathaniel Jenkins
Indeed. And St. Raphael of Brooklyn, for his part, lamented that Orthodox Christians did not refer to themselves simply as "Catholic." He argued that Catholic is our word, not the Latins'.
Carson Evans
Not LIKING the pope shouldn't be a reason for conversion.
If you think he has committed or taught heresy, then that's a reason to convert.
Personally I also feel that the Sede crowd are larp shops that spend all their time explaining why they think the pope is a heretic instead of just practicing their religion
That having been said, my ancestors fought to remain Catholic, I'm not about to abandon that because the current pope is a cuck
Wyatt Perez
why do you fucks got to lie so much to get your negative propaganda on ? Orthodoxy doesn't "love" muslims it's been in wars with them intermittently for 1000 years, do you even know the subject at all you freaky finn ?
>Note: There is no "Roman Catholic Church". The Church is catholic and it happens that he Holy See of Peter is located in Rome. This is a protestant meme and it has to stop, because it implies there are other "catholic" churches, such as "orthodoxy", which is not the case. They are apostolic, yes, but far from being catholic.
Perhaps they should ask you your opinion on how people should call it and obey your command to drop the RCC moniker immediately.
Note of irony : you said the Orthodox aren't catholic the Catholic Church isn't orthodox as it has altered itself continuously to follow social trends in an effort to stay relevant by selling out on the dogma.
Ryder Phillips
First of all, the immaculate heart of Mary was an Eastern thing until we adopted it you dummy. Second of all, the Holy Mother said that we'll have good times, once Russia is converted, not that the Pope shall go out of his way. And no Pope ever done it.
You're mixing up fantasy with politics my friend. Because, are you aware of the fact that communism is actually THE biggest secular enemy of the Catholic Church ? I'm sure you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have spilled something so stupid.
Which it isn't. We're cyclejerking here.
Adam Brown
The thread would be better served debating points of theology rather splitting hairs over names.
Gavin Ross
>As Orthodoxy continues to grow Fake news. >will the Eastern Orthodox Church become the largest Christian church? No, no chances. Very few people live like Christians in the Orthodoxy countries. Our goal is to create small but strong communities to live through the turbo liberal world. Hope it will be tolerant as they say.
t. Old-believer
Christopher Adams
You're being ridiculous. Of course the "orthodox" Church isn't catholic. And the Catholic Church is as orthodox as it gets - otherwise the gates of hell would've prevailed. And we all know this won't be happening.
The truth is, orthos are the original protestants.
Nathan Thompson
Not as much as . . .
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
My point is you can't challenge the authority of the pope if you're Catholic. Otherwise the church would fail immediately. Either you're all-in or you're all-out.
Luke Gomez
Franciscan spirituality needs to be purged as well, nothing but a bunch of hereitics worshiping Assisii.
Luke Russell
This is a muslim-led slide thread to divide the church. Sage