So, just how strong is Gilgamesh and why?

So, just how strong is Gilgamesh and why?

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Weaker than Saitama.

He's not really that strong at all. He is just really powerful

Galaxy Buster

youtube.com/watch?v=k6r06jrWI-s

beaten by a non mage human lmao

>gets hit in the forehead, it actually got him to stop resisting
>couldn't even pull a skinny teenage boy
>couldn't beat a ginger teenager in a sword fight
>is physically not fast enough to draw his strongest weapon

Apparently some videogame spin-offs he has ftl speedfeats but any top tier character can shit on Gilgamesh.

Except those """""""galaxies""""""" are smaller than houses:
youtube.com/watch?v=5kiAcwtcfJ4

Gilgamesh can nuke people iirc, his ship and some of his weapons are nuke level. But I don't think he's really anything special. He even failed to kill Rider at first with Enuma Elish, despite the reality marble crumbling. And anyone who's fast enough can cut off his arm before he can use it.

His basic stats are really high because he's a Demigod from really far back in history and his myth is the foundation for all other heroes (hence, King of Heroes).

However, he's an arrogant prick who won't ever use his full abilities unless enraged beyond reason (hard to do, even Shirou didn't make him so mad he was mindless or he wouldn't have hesitated over the "ideological," failure of drawing Ea) or facing an opponent he actually deems a worthy challenge (possibly even harder). He always uses the bare minimum amount of strength, agility, etc he thinks is necessary.

In terms of his powers beyond base physical stats, the reason he's strong is because by Servant Rules the Oldest Thing Wins. The Gate of Babylon theoretically has the original version of every weapon any hero in history ever used. Because he has the original, and therefore older, version on hand, his weapon will always beat the other weapon in a one-on-one fight. On top of that, he can fire those weapons as projectiles in an anti-army fashion so he can fight superior numbers, and he can make full use of the weapon's special attributes so he has literally a Swiss Army Superpower that can counter any special trick his opponent can bring to try and tip the battle. He even has utility equipment like armor and spaceships and booze to cover any theoretical problem he might face. And on top of all of THAT, he has two unique weapons, the Enkidu chain which can bind divine beings, and Ea, which can rend the very fabric of reality and theoretically bust planets.

His only real weakness beyond that arrogance I mentioned is the fact that he "owns," weapons rather than "uses," them, so he is theoretically be a worse fighter than any other servant. Normally the "Older Weapon," advantage nullifies that, but if he's fighting one of the handful of weapons he doesn't have an original for (like Excalibur) or a hero that could counter his other advantages (like EMIYA) it matters a lot.

Any toonforce can destroy him

Anyone faster can prevent him from taking out his strongest attacks

Any high level reality warper destroys him

This guy struggles with Berserker, Shirou, got eaten by Sakura, etc. Look up characters with better feats and powers

>So, just how strong is Gilgamesh
About three fiddy

> and why?
Autism

His weapons can fire in any direction at the speed of thought. The level of fast you'd have to be to "prevent him from taking out his strongest attacks," is absurd. We're talking DC Speedforce fast, even a normal Super Speed guy like Quicksilver won't cut it.

>Shirou
>Non-mage
Huh?

Gil has weapons that can warp reality himself, its not a given that a reality warper can beat him.

This is some extreme bait

About the same level as Saber.

>FZ
Saber = Gil = Berserker > Lancer = Rider > Caster > Assassin
>FSN
Saber Alter > Berserker > Saber = Gil = Lancer > Archer = Assassin > Caster

>gettiing defeated by Dude, swords LMAO
Doesn't seem very strong to me

universe tier feats

his sword fucking created the universe and can destroy lesser realities, the strongest people in his universe are planet tier and he has a fucking galaxy buster at his fingertips

he just has to be smart enough to use it before he gets his shit stomped in

pretty physically weak for a fucking mythological demigod

Gilfags out in full force this morning

his power isn't really strong.
his weapons are.

Doesn't he own every single Noble Phantasm and that is what makes him so difficult to beat? The first epic hero and all that.

>shirou says he's the perfect counter to gilgamesh because he can mirror his sword spam
>shirou says that he would lose against any servant who mastered their noble phantasm but beats gilgamesh because he just spams shit
>gilgamesh overpowers every other servant just by spamming swords
>therefore shirou is stronger than every other servant for having the same ability
Does that sound about right?

>none of the unique abilities of gilgamesh's weapons activated, unlike the fate route

You're dumb. Gil couldn't shoot swords at Shirou because Shirou could ALSO shoot swords at the speed of thought. Also he was having an ideological symbolic fight with Shirou to prove he was superior because he was goaded by Shirou's comments about a fake surpassing the original. He wouldn't have tried sword shooting even if he could because it would defeat the entire purpose of the fight. He had to beat Shirou on Shirou's terms. That's why he hesitated when he went for Ea and ended up losing, because pulling Ea was a tacit admission of defeat.

Reading comprehension please.

the thing is sword spam is just GIl's bad habit, if he gets serious he'll take advantage at enemies weaknesses and use his weapon's maximum potential to defeat his enemies. And gil's arsenal isn't limited to melee weapon unlike UBW

Shirou could only fight Gil the one time for a few minutes by using Rin's mana. Unless he killed a Servant instantly they could probably hold out until he ran out of juice, and he couldn't even do it alone.

Also when Archer fought other Servants they were able to counter his Sword Arrow Spam when they couldn't counter GOB. It stands to reason that UBW Sword Spam is not as good at GOB, its only good ENOUGH to counter GOB because the swords are literally the same swords and so they're running on Noble Phantasm Concept Vs Concept Rules instead of a raw power vs power matchup.

>It stands to reason that UBW Sword Spam is not as good at GOB, its only good ENOUGH to counter GOB because the swords are literally the same swords
What?

souce: your ass

Even Shirou can catch him off guard before he could use Enuma Elish. FSN verse is not really all that impressive, I know Nasuverse has an omnipotent(?) or a godlike being but other than that Fate characters are nowhere near top tier.

How is this ranked? As fighters or in terms of pure power?

Raw power.

Shirou starts off as the beginner magus who was never taught by his dad, to beating his father's nemesis, Saber, Berserker, Gilgamesh and himself.

It's incorrect on both fronts.

if raw power i think hercules is still above alter since she still uses prana burst

Being literally the same item in Nasu land makes the relative ranking and power of the two weapons irrelevant. Their clash becomes a matter of Concept vs Concept. Thats the whole point of UBW, it makes the same item, and the perfection of the copy is dependent on Shirou's mana, concentration and willpower.

When he fought Gil he was shooting the exact same swords Gil was shooting by instantly copying and duplicating what Gil used. The copies were good enough to counter Gil's weapons, but that doesn't mean they're good enough that other servants can't block them.

>galaxy buster

His "galaxies" are smaller than buildings and he only used it in one specific game. That's like saying the mummy guy in Hunter x Hunter is a planet buster because he made a miniature planet or Father from FMA is a star buster because he held a mini sun in his hand.

Facts:
1. Gilgamesh's enuma elish blast failed to kill Rider even though it destroyed the reality marble. Saying it's universe level or above that is a no-limits fallacy. It literally never did anything impressive, couldn't beat Saber because Avalon (which is also a NLF but this isn't the point), not fast enough for Shirou, can break a desert dimension but not the guy in it.

2. Anyone who is faster can stop him from drawing his weapons/activating any devastating attack.

3. Has no impressive feats other than hyperbole or potential which means nothing because almost every character has potential. Madoka Kaname at one point can destroy a creature larger than the planet, and she apparently existed at all points of time and space. She could have the potential to shoot planet busters from all over time and space infinitely into one point, but I wouldn't call her a multiverse buster. That's just theoretical and "potential" and dumb.

All Gilgamesh has are no limits fallacy, a couple of nuke-level attacks, any top tier reality warper or powerful fighter with speed feats/strength feats should be able to take him easily. Stop exaggerating his powers. Im done with you Nasufags

Ea breaks reality and shits on physics. Thats hax.

That's not galaxies but the interpretation of something something forces.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

Don't be fucking retarded, Saber is barely hypersonic(when under Kiritsugu) and she was dodging just fine a lot of weapons, this under Shirou that gimps her.

GoB is at best mach 5 or something.

Archer took six lives off Heracles without using Unlimited Blade Works, so let that give you an idea of how much Shirou is underestimating himself.
Yes his projections are technically inferior to the originals, having a Rank down, but they're still Noble Phantasms and he clearly has/will have an arsenal of many that are extremely powerful regardless of the Rank penalty, not to mention the Broken Phantasm technique.

Gilgamesh does have a far greater variety of treasures available and Gate of Babylon can be used at virtually no cost, but once used Unlimited Blade Works is generally more deadly with the exception of Ea.
And even then Shirou has the nuclear option of faux-Excalibur.

>digested by Sakura
>lost a dogfight with Berserker
>beaten by Shirou

surely he is unbeatable

How does it feel to be autistic?

No shit, it's rock-paper-scissors and based on the servant's circumstances.

Weaker than Part 2 Naruto by the time he fights Pain

Not really, that only happens in Nasuverse because they basically live in the Matrix.

Waver survived it

/thread

Then why does Gil's swords overpower other servants but Archer's doesn't when they're the same?

>Saber is described at the most powerful servant
>Capable of fight off Lancer when Archer couldn't
>Gets destroyed by everybody

Explain

yeah a fast enough character can survive Enuma Elish, why do people think servants and masters are all that strong. compared to other series this is baby shit

He's the strongest by far. He's also retarded. He would have won every single fight in the franchise if he had fought seriously.

This is the stupidest shit I've read in a long time.

You have 1 sword, the original and more powerful.
You have another sword, the copy and less powerful.

By all means when they clash the less powerful one should be BTFO.

Except they clash and are equals in power.

Which means that the copy is not actually inferior, otherwise it would've been BTFO. This is just simple logic

He is stronger the strongest servant. He only loses because he is retarded and plot armor.

Gil's swords have a higher powerful than Emiya's. This is why Gil was able to surround Berserker with weapons and kill him quickly again and again while Archer had to do it the old fashion way with determination. By the end of it, Berserker was pretty messed up.

Shirou made cheap imitations to smash into Gil's swords, then charged him and cut off his arm. If Archer hadn't headshotted him,

A: Shirou cuts off his arm and Gil gets sucks in and dies or wherever he goes
B: Gil crawls out, kills Shirou, then gets to a hospital before he bleeds to death

she's a jobber

Archer is the weakest servant

Who would win?

Because Archer's swords may be "the same sword," but they're weaker. Its a fundamental limitation of a copy. Conceptually the weapon is the same, in reality one is a weaker weapon.

Note that UBW can make a fully powered and equal-in-every-way version of a sword that has no original owner, provided Shirou's will and image of the weapon are strong enough. That's why Archer uses Kanshou and Bakuya as his standard arms, and why Shirou could make a Caliburn capable of killing Hercules, they're both weapons without true owners. So in theory if Archer had the mana to shoot Caliburns the way Gil shoots all his swords, they'd pretty much be equals in terms of fighting other Servants since Caliburn is presumably an A-Rank weapon.

Of course, Archer couldn't fight Gil himself that way because Gil has the older more-original version of Caliburn, Merodache.

sakura

Gilgamesh Ea is universe level shit.

Sakura, Mahou Shoujo power levels are bullshit.

They still aren't equal in power. Sword rain doesn't even use the NPs to their full potential.

so illya>gil?

Well she did overpower Ea.

Archer swords are weaker because they are cheap imitations.

Gil's swords are the real deal.

Archer couldn't kill Berserker because his NPs are all shit, Gil only used top quality NPs to kill Berserker.

IF THEY CAN STOP GIL SWORDS THEN THEY ARE NOT WEAKER YOU RETARDED FUCK.

If you arm-wrestle a 5 year old and he beats your ass then it's because he has more strenght in his arm

If you become stalemated then it's because you have the same strenght.

If you beat him is because you have more strenght

Use your fucking brain. If Shirou's swords stop UBW AKA STALEMATE/TIE then it's because they have the same power.

>Raw power
Then I'd say it should be

>F/Z
Gil (Ea) > Saber (Excalibur) > Rider (Ionioi Hetairoi) > Caster (Prelati's Monster) >>> Berserker (Arondight) > Lancer (Gae Buidhe) > Assassin (Delusional Illusion)
>F/SN
Gil (Ea) > Saber Alter (Excalibur Morgan) > Saber (Excalibur) >>> Rider (Bellerophon) >= Archer (UBW + Broken Phantasm) > Berserker (Mad Enhancement) >>> Lancer (thrown Gae Bolg) >= Caster (Age of the Gods magic) > True Assassin (Delusional Heartbeat) > Fake Assassin (Tsubami Gaeshi)

Obviously doesn't account for things like skill or practicality but it's accurate in terms of "nuke" potential

ah, yes

"Concept," and "Strength" are not the same thing in Nasuland. This is the entire point of things like Origins and Mystic Codes and indeed many Noble Phantasms. A copy and the original will not have the same "strength," the original will always be better. But if a copy is perfect, then it has the same "concept," as the original, and thus when they clash they will destroy each other.

You're thinking about a copy vs an original as 8 vs 10. Under Nasu rules a copy vs an original isn't about numbers, its about an absolute innate status, True or False. If true, its a draw. If False, the copy loses.

And? Gilgamesh never uses his NPs to their full potential either, he kills people with sword rain(see berserker and Medea).

So by all means, if Gilgamesh can kill someone with spam then so can Archer.

Why does nobody in this game have a shield to block with?

>summon magic shield
>charge gil
>cut his head off

Instead, Saber and Gil's fight is Goku vs Vegeta.

Saint George could do that.

And those are all babby tier, dunno why people act like these guys are strong.

Why doesn't Gilgamesh just summon/shoot swords point blank behind people's heads to instakill them?

That's actually exactly how Saber beats Gil in the first route. Its her magical scabbard, but the principle is the same.

Because he's an asshole and he would never even imply that his opponent is close enough to his level to merit using a sneak attack.

Medea is garbage and would die to Archer's sword rain, yes.

Berserker has God Hand and Archer's copies explicitly suffer in terms of rank unless he supercharges them.

He did point blank chains on Berserker, what's the difference?

Yeah, her beam overpowered Ea

Nothing really matters actually, everything is shit compared to demonbane or umineko

Archer's UBW goes up to A++

You just need A to kill berserker

Ko-Gil goes on to say it wasn't up to par with what he'd have dished out fully incarnated.

Hey autist, swing two pieces of forged metal together at a hundred miles an hour and see how well they hold up

This shit is directly stated in the VN.
Gilgamesh has the original/prototype of every single Noble Phantasm and treasure created by mankind. They are superior to the modern degenerated versions, meaning they have Rank one higher. For example, Gilgamesh's "original" Caliburn would be A Rank, while Saber's was B Rank.
Shirou and Archer's tracing and projections cannot perfectly replicate something as complex as a Noble Phantasm, and so they produce copies that suffer a Rank-down penalty. The Caliburn that Shirou projects in Fate route would be C Rank, except Nasu had to pull a mountain of bullshit out of his ass so it was somehow strong enough to blow Berserker away.
But in any other circumstance there is an effective two-Rank difference between Shirou's projections and Gilgamesh's originals.

Now what people need to understand is that barring unique shit like God Hand, Rank doesn't mean shit because a Noble Phantasm is still a Noble Phantasm and can absolutely fuck your shit up. Lancelot's shit in Fate/Zero was all about this, turning a street pole into a D-Rank Noble Phantasm makes it strong enough to clash with Excalibur and easily have the potential to cleave Saber in half.

TL;DR read the fucking VN jesus christ

I mean, so is everything else?

One is a defense, the other is an attack.

He is retarded.

Common Sup Forums theory is that Shirou is so shit at being a mage he basically isn't one.

Prisma illya aint even cannon.

The chains made Berserker open to all attacks so how is it any better? Monologing for a minute to let the enemy know they're bound and hopeless because you fired off a sneak disable makes it a more honorable exchange?

Kaleidoscope make it canon.

He's arrogant, not retarded.
He knows Heracles isn't somebody you fuck around with, even as a "mad dog"

Gil can choose which weapons he uses. Gil uses weak shit against Shirou because he wanted to beat Shirou at his own game and humiliate him. Against Berserker, Lancer and Iskander he was using his most powerful stuff with the chains.

After he realized that he was going to die, he grabs Ea but then Shirou slices him up like his dishes. Avenger grabs Gil so he uses his chains as a last ditch effort to get out of there.

That's how he killed Assassin at the start of Fate Zero, but it hit his hand and not his head.

>he doesn't know

What was dishonorable about it? Enkidu is one of the few NPs he actually knows how to wield properly. Gil just cut to the chase.

Fate Grand/Order made it canon

Zelretch made it canon(He appears in the beginning)

So why not just spam swords point blank around his head if he takes it so seriously?

>point blank sneak kill is significantly more dishonorable than point blank sneak disable which leads to free kill

>Prisma illya aint even cannon
Regardless of your retarded assertion, Second Magic being ridiculous is absolutely canon and with a "gun" as big as Illya to load with it, overpowering Ea is entirely plausible

> So strong she was split into nine different servants
>Still stomps
> Gave up her godly status, immune to Enkidu/Gilgamesh's crutch

How can other servants even compete?

Also, the whole logic Prisma Illya runs on is that if she believes she can do something, she can do it. That's why she's a good Magical Girl and Miyu is shit at it. Miyu can't conceptualize flying, how it would work, the way she would have to use her magic to allow it to happen, so she can't do it. Illya just assumes she can fly, therefore she can fly.

Illya doesn't really know what Ea is, what its theoretical potential is, what it can do, she just knows its a Big Bad Beam. So she tells Ruby to make her whole body a magic circuit so she can use ALL THE POWER and shoot her Big Good Beam. She assumes if she does this she can make a beam that can win. Therefore she makes a beam that can win.

Theoretically she probably didn't need to do the risky shit of turning all her organs into live wires if she'd just believed she could do it without that, but that's sort of three layers deep into the mental chessgame...

I always figured that was also the justification for Caliburn doing something it should have been incapable of doing in the Fate route. Shirou didn't know his limits, didn't know how his power worked. He knew one thing: that he needed to imagine a weapon that could win. That's what he did, so that's what he got. Being ignorant actually made him more powerful because his power is based largely on how his brain perceives things, and when it lacked constraints it broke through the bounds of the possible.

But I think some Nasu scholar once told me that's wrong based on some fact book or whatever. Oh well.

It's a pointless comparison anyway. We have no way of gauging how it matches with the Ea of the other parallel world beyond how ko-Gil's apparently wasn't as strong as it could've been.

He literally says he's going all out against Shirou
>I can't believe I need to go all out against a mongrel like you
>When I finish there won't be a bone left of your faker body

Fuck off gilfag.

>the last true ancestor

How can other servants even compete?

Why is Gilgamesh so strong when almost no one knows who he is these days?