Is Elon Musk a scam artist? He is worth $19 billion yet SpaceX and Tesla are profitable...

Is Elon Musk a scam artist? He is worth $19 billion yet SpaceX and Tesla are profitable. All the normies in my business class suck his cock.

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youtu.be/mQWS_NA0eHE
robertdavidsteele.com/bigideas/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX
fortune.com/2017/06/17/spacex-launch-cost-competition/
latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

wont be profitable much longer without his gimme's

*not profitable

Tesla is "profitable" but only because he's playing the game with the California government and the feds. SpaceX is profitable and legit.

Literally a welfare whore.

tesla is gonna fucking burn, yeh, but SpaceX is doing fine. It isn't profitable by any means, but it definitely can become profitable in the future.

See

He's ok, at least he's trying to do some shit

I don't understand all the bitching about him taking government money
SpaceX is doing far better than NASA.
If I were American, I'd rather give my tax money to a company who manages to progress further and further instead of one which has been stagnating for the last ten years.

What benefit does it provide other than making Musk rich?

it made the cost for sending satellites in orbit to fall by ten fold

Advancing and developing technologies, creating jobs for Americans and if he's not bullshitting us, we could actually
finally have a colony on another planet.
At least he's using his money to create more startups focused at advancing the human race, instead of spending it on 20 yachts.

>it made the cost for sending satellites in orbit to fall by ten fold
Source?

Tesla received a loan guarantee for $465 million from the DOE. When Tesla went public, Musk pocketed nearly $1 billion on his $35 million investment.

SpaceX has received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding.

SolarCity spent half a million in 2009 and 2010 to lobby Congress and the Department of Energy on climate legislation. SolarCity then received a $350 million loan guarantee from the DOE and $66 million from additional DOE giveaway programs. Thanks to those money, Musk was able to roll an IPO out for Solar City earning him an estimated half a billion dollars.

>Advancing and developing technologies, creating jobs for Americans and if he's not bullshitting us, we could actually
More H1B Imports! SpaceX has recieved $5 billion in gibs. How about investing that to replace the 700k jobs lost by NAFTA
>finally have a colony on another planet.
We can't even solve problems on this fucking planet, we don't need to spend money on Rocket Man's scams
>At least he's using his money to create more startups focused at advancing the human race, instead of spending it on 20 yachts.
Yeah, I'm sure he is 1,500 sq ft house

>SpaceX has received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding.
*5 billion

I think he is. I believe he's an intelligent person, but is predominantly the face of the operation and isn't the brains behind it. He's never said anything that's really activated my almonds.

...

Nobody is saying he is an idiot, just that he is a conman

>The greatest snake oil salesmen there is
I think you meant 'unprofitable' since neither spacex or tesla has made a profit and will have to do another round of (but damn did I make a ton of money riding the hype)
He's only been with one profitable company (paypal) and it's only profitable is because they rejected all his ideas and fired him.

I didn't claim they did, I'm saying he's a conman, but not unintelligent. I wasn't clear enough. I've seen tons of people claiming that he's an idiot, for whatever reasons, so that just kind of slipped in there.

But yes, he's a conman, as evidence by his inability to activate my almonds.

Does it?

Well, NASA's also been demoted to "encouraging interest in science among minorities and women" for the past 10 years. It's a shit organization now, not really their fault though. Lockheed royally fucked up the GPS contract, Boeing is too megacorp for libs to every support, that leaves affable Musk and his quirky startups with the press attention.

Well. Tesla is a waste of time if they want the electrict cars to "save" the climate.

You release more toxic waste when creating one Tesla then driving a diesel car for a lifetime. Or something like that.

I dont have the exact info right now but its extremly toxic to create all the parts for a car like that.

>More H1B Imports!
SpaceX cannot hire people from outside of America. You need to own at least a green card to be allowed to work for SpaceX.
>We can't even solve problems on this fucking planet, we don't need to spend money on Rocket Man's scams
What problems exactly? Should we stop advancing any kind of technology until we solve world hunger, perhaps?
This logic is fucking horrible, and you should be ashamed of using it.
Also, how are you so certain it's a scam?
>Yeah, I'm sure he is 1,500 sq ft house
I never said he was selfless, I said he at least didn't buy useless, unnecessary shit. And even if he did, why do you care? He's still causing things to happen. And besides, you really think you were ever going to see any of that money if it weren't going to him?

Yes, because a few failures mean that everything the company has achieved is invalidated.

No, he unlike you and the other 9X% of the world actually does something he believes in, and it just happened to make him filthy rich.

Rich kid who stood on the shoulders of much smarter people. Cliche. It just happens he picked the right time to jump into these industries.

>What problems exactly? Should we stop advancing any kind of technology until we solve world hunger, perhaps?
I don't care if a private company does it. I care that a company that receives billions and billions of taxpayer dollars when the average American only has $1000 in their bank account.
>I never said he was selfless, I said he at least didn't buy useless, unnecessary shit. And even if he did, why do you care? He's still causing things to happen. And besides, you really think you were ever going to see any of that money if it weren't going to him?
Again, if he only used is paypal money to build his empire, I would say congrats. Not when he has received as much taxpayers money.

Seems pretty profitable to me...

>russia
>talking about rocket failiures

Not to mention that lithium mining is much more harmful and damaging to the earth.

I think I'd rather be Richard Branson myself.

Off the money of taxpayers.

What are you, a commie? Go and create your own project and redistribute it all then, instead of moaning here.

>Is Elon Musk a scam artist?

Elon Musk is a self brand. People give him money because he's "cool scientist businessman". Tesla keeps getting funds because everyone is trying to fund some kind of autopilot, SpaceX is a pipe dream for what Elon wants specifically.

He's similar to Trump in that Trump was also a self-brand.

>business class
kys

Just fucking google it you imbecile. Don't expect people to spoonfeed you information that you can google in 2 minutes.

Again, thinking that your average American would see any of that money is naive to say the least, your government would find another sinkhole to put all of it in.
I'd rather have them throw it all to one dude who actually does something with it, rather than spread it around for other companies to pocket it.
But who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and all that money would actually be invested in the poor.

You mean Richie Rich.

Yes im aware. I think we should focus on SpaceX and start do our dirty work in space instead.

>What are you a commie?
>Says the former soviet slave
>Supports exploitation of taxpayer dollars

> What, you expect me to waste time on sourcing my claims? Retard!

His businessmodel depends on international gibs flowing to artificially keep certain regions running that wouldn't be able to compete under normal circumstances. That's part of the reason he threw a shitfit when Trump announced the departure from the Paris agreement. The agreement includes massive gibs to second world countries that his business models depend on.

SpaceX is profitable except for 2015 when their rocket blew up according to the WSJ

>replies to someone that gives example of socialist communism
>claims they're a commie for exposing it

Liberal braindamage.

It's the exact opposite. In the short-term an electric vehicle is more harmful for the environment but over a lifetime the electric vehicle is less harmful to the environment.

I'm not going to dispute that lithium mining is bad for the environment. Fortunately less damaging methods of extracting it are being created at the moment but don't expect to see them within the next 10 years.

Man will never set foot on Mars

>my claims

I didn't claim it. The other guy did. Are you literal retard? I think you are.
Now go to mommy so she can spoonfeed you your next meal.

youtu.be/mQWS_NA0eHE
robertdavidsteele.com/bigideas/

to be fair that could be considered modest with how much he is worth

Damaging to people*. Planet's doing fine.

>everything the company has achieved
Which is?

this

every business venture he's gone into including paypal has been massively subsidized

Trying to one up someone with ad-hom only proves their point most of the time.
>muh taxes
That's capitalism dumbass, and if he didn't get them then someone else would, atleast Musk is productive.
And believeing they the people deserve that money to always circulate only amongst them is borderline socialism.

He is expert at latching onto the federal teat, obviously. Maybe what he is building will actually work and actually benefit those of us that pay the freight. Maybe he's an actual genius that will be able to not rip us off. He's managed to get the keys to the cashbox, so I hope so.

The first few paragraphs sum it up
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX

More damaging to the earth as in land. Not Earth as in Planet.

Earth = Planet

earth = land

I.e.: Crooked Almond farmers in California are siphoning ground water at alarming rates and destabilizing the earth around them.

Not to mention he has an incestuous set up of his companies to funnel money between the two to prop them up.

His model 3 is an complete meme, and now normies are in awe of his fucking truck that can't travel more than 300 miles.

It's all fucking vaporware.

Reuseable and self-landing rockets, that is something even NASA will not have for atleast a decade or more. And on top of that they apparently are working on something else on th sidelines too.

You can't get to his level without severe autism

The stupid faggot managed to bottleneck the model 3 production and he's currently losing a fuckton of money because of the plant shutdowns.
Tesla has issued 5 billion $ worth in bonds since January in order to cover the cash outflow. If the other major car companies catch up in any way he's finished.

The guy built a km of tube at like third scale and he gets millions of dollars of money. America doesn't even have magnetic rail yet, why develop something new?

This. Not having to build a new rocket every time you send up people or materials saves millions on every trip.

>All the normies in my business class suck his cock
That's the definition of a Normie.

This clown is portrayed like the Messiah but what did he do so far? Build some subsidized, overpriced and environmentally catastrophic YUPPIE electrocar.

He is a legit genius. One of the greatest minds of our times, and one of the only people in this world that is actually trying to make the world better for tomorrow.

All of his competitors are getting subsidies too. His companies are doing well, making real progress.

Tesla has made some fun sports and luxury cars, and it looks like their mass-market model will be competitive. Their battery and solar businesses are credible, even assuming that subsidies go away over the next few years. They're very well placed if China is cut out of the US solar power market, as seems likely under Trump. I'm not keen on their self-driving plans, but they don't need that to be accepted to succeed.

SpaceX is the best thing happening with space right now. They're driving commercial launch prices down with no end in sight, and have real vision. Regardless of what you might think of their Mars plans, they're years ahead of everyone else on cost-effective reusable rockets, and it seems likely they'll achieve their goal of rapid reusability and consequent dramatic cost reduction and capability improvement.

He's a good pitchman, which does imply a certain amount of... let's call it "optimism", but if he doesn't deliver on exactly what he pitches, he does deliver something worth having. I consider him useful to society and deserving of his position, unlike many billionaires I could name.

Musk should be crowned as the king of paper launches. I'm not kidding.

No. Its not the opposite. You are talking about 10 year perspective, but you cant be sure.

At the 70s people thought we where going to live in space now.

Stop assuming things.

B-but his new truck! IT CAN PULL MORE WEIGHT! NEVER MIND THE RANGE!

why would you ever need to travel more than 300 miles on a car?

Elon Musk is a con artist. At the expense of taxpayer money he's peddling his snake oil.

Imagine if your average citizen could embezzle tax money to make really expensive stupid shit?

If Elon Musk gives a shit about American technology he can work for NASA. He's a two-faced loser.

The space shuttle already did it, the only reason he did vertical landing and take off is to make it seem new.

He's good at taking advantage of government subsidies

I blame the government, not him

He's an all-American flimflam artist. Truly the best at his craft.

Tesla is only profitable because the government gives 10k subsidies to people that can afford to spend 100k on a toy car to pretend like they are helping the environment

Tesla is the Enron 2.0.

You might have a point, but the trucks people are falling all over about have the same range.

And he can't even produce 500K units of his model 3s after his vaunted gigafactory was finished.

>If Elon Musk gives a shit about American technology he can work for NASA. He's a two-faced loser.
read

Say it yourself. Did they reduce the launch costs? Maybe the US is still not 100% dependent on the Soyuz rocket system to get man into space?

Space Shuttle was like a school bus strapped to rocket boosters. Nice for bringing people up there, but else simply a waste of payload capacity. You want to bring pure weight in equipment up there to do all the "cool" stuff.

He made most of his money from PayPal!

Still does not compare, shuttle launches are a multi-stage process and require the use of runways, while SpaceX only needs a launch/landing pad and a clear trajectory.

>Oh no, NASA is failing because not a single president since the Moon landing proposed meaningful budget or tasks.

NASA is not a government agency, not a private company.

Elon Musk is ALREADY wasting tax dollars. The least he could do is waste tax dollars at NASA.

Do you even have the most basic grasp on hypocrisy?

Of coarse not, it wouldn't be PC, it has to be women since it was men who went to the moon. See, logic.

*NASA is a government agency.

Yes, they have massively reduced the launch cost.
Read this link: fortune.com/2017/06/17/spacex-launch-cost-competition/
And no, I am not going to spoonfeed it. Go read it yourself, or find other sources if you don't trust this one.

To answer your question about being dependent on Russian rockets:
>As of March 2017, SpaceX has since flown ten missions to the International Space Station (ISS) under a cargo resupply contract. NASA also awarded SpaceX a further development contract in 2011 to develop and demonstrate a human-rated Dragon, which would be used to transport astronauts to the ISS and return them safely to Earth.
Not completely, but America is slowly getting there.

>The least he could do is waste tax dollars at NASA.
And make what happen, exactly?

SpaceX costs 8 times more per kg launched, tgsn proton.
If spacex would fly and land 8 times with only refueling, that would be legit profitable business. Now its a scam.

Tesla is anti-Russian as well. Russian scientist Severinsky developed hybrid cars, that have most effective fuel consumption ratio. He had to hire patent trolls to have royaltiies from toyota. Nobody else is paing anything.

Free market in USA is a meme.

>muh rusophobia
"STOP GOING INDEPENDENT FROM RASHKA REEE"

The same shit he's doing now?

The only difference is it would be harder to embezzling tax money. At least this way its easier to throw him in federal prison.

Common now. Show me at least some indication of a grasp on hypocrisy. I'm losing hope here.

Okay, I'm gonna need some information here
How much money is he currently wasting and on what exactly?

Shuttle is the same shit from different asshole. It was extremely dangerous. It required about 52 times of price launched with normal rocket, if we take into consideration shulltle disassembly/valuation/rebuild prices, but not dead an heroes that flew that ceramic coffin.

The only way for burgers to go to space economicaly effective is to steal N1, just like euromutts stole RN-Energia and named smaller degraded version of it "ariane".

Crew Dragon launch costs 140$ million. Soyuz charges 75$ million a seat. SpaceX is less capitalistic than a communist designed delivery system, that's how much of a welfare queen Musk is.

>The space shuttle already did it
The space shuttle was grossly uneconomical. It cost more to launch than the Saturn V moon rocket, despite having only a fifth of the payload capacity. The drop tank alone cost as much as a complete expendable rocket with the same payload, and the "reusable" parts cost a fortune to refurbish for launch. The shuttles cost so much that they had to fly them each a large number of times to justify the investment, so when they started flying and realized the design couldn't support a high launch rate or low-cost refurbishment, they couldn't afford to go back to the drawing board, make changes, and build new shuttles that would work better.

What SpaceX has done is make a reusable booster that's cheap and market-competitive even if it's flown expendably. This means they've been able to work out the bugs over as many flights as they needed without worrying about the cost of failed recoveries. And now that recovery is reliable, and reflight has been demonstrated, they're able to work on reducing the cost and time of inspection and refurbishment, and can still build the necessary changes into new rockets.

Because SpaceX's rockets make money, they can afford to reinvest their earnings in developing an even better rocket, a clean-sheet redesign based on their experiences. What they're doing is much better than the space shuttle.

Scam artist, however I admire his passion for space and it's surely a better way to spend money on space and tech than on gibsmedats for nogs and spics

>its another dumb nigger that cherrypicks instead of reading the entire thread episode

Here's the first internet search link I found with some rudimentary stuff.

latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html

He may be a scam artist, but is he a globalist shill?

If you will pay for your part in installing bolshevism in Russian Empire, there would be nothing to go independant, commie.

he's going ultra long game
HGe's trying to build Tesla as industry leader in alternate energy transportation. He's also trying to further space travel.

Once a few hundred years in the future, when we begin colonization of another planet, we're going to find petro on lifeless planet, and transporting oil would be impractical. Tesla will have near monopoly on off world transport.

*we're not going to find oil on lifeless planet

Too bad we couldn't install NS in it

Also SpaceX is literally a NASA Sub-project, many overlook this