Is communism the dumbest political ideology ever invented? Why do so many people think it's a good idea?

Is communism the dumbest political ideology ever invented? Why do so many people think it's a good idea?

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Because they are retarded.

Surely it will work this time comrade

Why would you work if you weren't getting paid?

There’s an upper limit to how many people can operate in a collective. That limit is 148.

Ironically because they are greedy.

With Capitalism you have to spend either capital or effort to obtain a goal or object or objective.

With Communism it's in essence Democracy in every form except practice. The people uphold the state's existence but are powerless to tear it apart. It's a very parasitic democracy.

Some countries get pretty desperate.

Because their single mothers receive money from the government and consider it "daddy". Communism is "daddy" to a lot of people from broken homes, hence why Jews love to destroy the family.

Great post. Communism only could work in a small village less than 150, and even then it may not work.

Turns out most people are literal retards. Are you really surprised?

Yet somehow the Soviet Union transformed a bunch of illiterate peasants into a nuclear superpower in just a few generations. All they had to do was slaughter a few million lazy assholes and crazies. More like:
>The value we place on a good appears to be subjective, based on how many Jew media marketing hours are pumped into our soft skulls, shaping our 'tastes and preferences' to corporate standards; independent from the actual quality and scarcity of the particular good.
You dumbasses actually pay thousands of dollars on digital loot boxes that you don't even have real ownership over, just a digital license to, and the game developer can delete or modify the items you win at their whim.
Corporations pay some tv show to have some celebrity eat a shit burger, and now you'll pay twice the price to eat it yourself, especially if it is "for a limited time special".
Independent of the brainwashing, propaganda, and ideology, yes the real value of a thing is based on the labor value. Even in your capitalist ideal of valuation, you pay for a good AT LEAST what it costs to produce, market, and distribute (i.e. labor) that thing, for if the company sells less than cost, it soon goes out of business. Hence, the fundamental basis of price is the cost of labor, and class struggle means the class that owns the means of production always tries to pay workers less and charge buyers more to increase their own profits. Over the long term, this is UNSUSTAINABLE, and leads to increasingly catastrophic boom/bust cycles and depressions, wherein productive forces and capacity go unutilized simply because consumers do not have sufficient wealth to buy goods from the owners of the means of production at the prices they demand. As such, the owners of the means of production go bankrupt as a result of their own greed, except they are bailed out by the governments they own and control; thus are profits privatized and losses socialized.

Without state intervention, capitalism eats itself. But there's no particular good reason for the state to bailout the owners of the means of production instead of simply socializing ownership of those means of production. States that bail out the upper class over and over just guarantee that the best brainwashers will keep brainwashing the masses. Whoever cons the most people into paying the most money for their sugary/fatty/salty/shinny/flashy product controls by their wealth all other aspects of society while the masses grow obese and lazy, and then you need to import immigrants into your country to do the jobs your own people are too fat and lazy to do. And then your race is wiped out.

GG capitalists.

This.

Amazing piece of writing.

I'm always impressed when someone begins with a strawman, but pivots to slippery slope. Really captures the teenage mind.

its funny that the people who shit on socialism are the ones that dont understand it.

Because with the death of God and the patriarchal family structure, the state has stepped in to take its place.

I always find it amusing that women think they're emancipated and independent, because they believe they no longer have to rely financially on men. Yet men pay the majority of taxes, while women are the primary recipients of federal and state benefits, so all they've really done is substitute the father and the husband with the state. Men are still left to pay for it all, though.

Weaklings find it attractive because they're not responsible for anything and they think socio-economic equality means eternal peace when in truth a society without hierarchies and room for advancement is a recipe for disaster.

Where'd you get 148?

why don't you dissect it piece by piece instead of claiming supposed logical fallacies you're no better than him

Read a book

I've read a book called The Communist Manifesto.
>it was shit

If you seriously did read it then you obviously had preconceived notions that prevented you from actually learning anything.

its just another elaborate excuse of lazy people to steal your stuff

its dead anyways, stop giving a shit about edgy fags on nostalgia trups larping as "commies"

How can you not have preconceived notions on anything?

Because secretly, they believe that somehow they will be in the ruling soviet, not in a factory or farm.

Dunbar's number. It's the cognitive limit of individuals with whom any one person can maintain a stable relationship.

All those other times were not weal Gommunism

Nah. It's actually been pretty good at manipulating dumb dumbs. Which is what politics is really.

Obviously there will always be some amount. But we still have the ability to put some of it on hold in order to experience a new perspective.

Which is something that I doubt you did while reading the manifesto. But I mean I'm guilty of the same thing as well. Every time I see one of those retarded ass pictures on pol with the wall of text explaining some conspiracy about jews I have to roll my eyes.

>Why do so many people think it's a good idea?
They want free shit

The leaf makes sense

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite

obviously you are just mentally retarded and that prevented you from learning that its actually just shit

supposed you actually read even this pamplet worth of garbage unlike most "commie" larpers

The reason we have militaries is because men will rape and kill you unless other men stop them. Political ideologies don't solve that problem.

Communism is spiritual Judaism, Otto Weininger, a Jew himself, said so.

The Soviet Union had useful idiots that stole everything from Western countries + the USA built most of the infrastructure in the USSR in secret

Ancaps can't meme.

>Read my holy book and you will realize gommunism is the religion of social peace!
>I did you are retarded
>YOU ARE JUST CLOSING YOUR HEART TO THE GREAT MARGS INFIDEL!
Every time

Yep, giving over the means of production to the Nomenklatura is going save us comrade! They will use their deathgrip on all aspects of political life to set us free for sure! It is inevitable comrade!

The reality is about 90% of the ones calling for communism in Western society would be labeled degenerates and thrown in a gulag. What these lazy shits don't realize is that in a communist society they'll be forced to work against their wishes, most of them will be worked to death and the rest will starve to death. They won't get shit for free, they won't get anything at all. Only people with mental disabilities think communism works.

>Why do so many people think it's a good idea?
The only people who think it's a good idea are people who don't actually want to work and think will be living comfortably in their free apartment

David Pakman has a great video analysis of this claim.

>inb4 (((David Pakman)))

The greatest sign of a nonintellectual is not being able to see both sides.

This is the real reason why:

You engage some pinko in a nonconfrontational conversation about socialism and one of the benefits they espouse is not having to have a job you hate. You ask them what they'd want to do and they either tell you they'll be some kind of low effort artist or one of the people running the society.
All advocates of socialism imagine themselves either as one of the parasites exploiting the system or as one of the few privileged special people. Neither of them imagines they'll be one of the ones putting in twice the effort for half the reward to make that society possible. They're just hoping there's although self motivated altruists to enable them to not get a real job that's hard.

Id like to see a political breakdown of microtransaction spending. My gut is telling me free market capitalists do not buy loot boxes.

This I can confirm, although the more sociopathic and intelligent amongst them secretly yearn to be the new Nomenklatura.

Fail. Communism is entirely materialist. It denies all memetic realities, including private property.

Because real socialism isn't the despotic authoritarian regime but the free society that gets made after the omnipotent leaders voluntarily step down?

But do we still have to steal from others to pay for our tendies?

The only people who think communism is a good idea are the losers of capitalism. Mostly (((college))) graduates who work at Starbucks for $7.25/hr. Taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor is always attractive to the poor, because they can do nothing but gain.

>some kind of low effort artist or one of the people running the society.

LOL you idiots are locked in such an echo-chamber. Nobody actually thinks like that. You cum-stains watch some SJW freaking out on camera and then proceed to straw-man the entire left to all of your fellow virgin losers on pol.

If anything this is an argument for ancap

Aaaaah, because there are a lot of dumb people in this world.

>voluntarily
You can have socialism without the omnipotent leaders in the first place.

Communism does not work for a whole number of reasons, compounded by Marx's actual resentment and vitriol towards the working class. You'd know this had you bothered reading anything. Your understanding and knowledge of what Marx and Engels actually wrote about socialism, communism and capitalism is non-existent, thus your piss-poor opinion on whether it's stupid or not is irrelevant.

If you could read Das Kapital and come up with an actual opinion/reason worth a fuck instead of regurgitating something you heard someone say on the internet, that'd be great.

Actually that's what socialists tell me when I talk to them. I've talked to a lot of people where I've kind of asked this question in a roundabout way so they didn't get defensive about socialism. This is what they say. I encourage you to do similar experiments.

Marx wrote about the labor theory of value because that was the only one that existed at the time. Everyone worked off of the labor theroy of value. Marx didn't even invent it, Riccardo did.

Carl Menger wouldn't publish Principles of Economics and propose the utility theory of value until 4 years after Das Kapital was published.

...

>the real value of a thing is based on the labor value

Who decides how much the value of the labor is worth?

yes, the idea that giving the workers the means of production would result in actual production is a fantasy.

However, Marx's analysis of the dynamics and contradictions of capitalism remains largely valid even now, though he maybe didnt foresee the extent to which financialization has taken over resulting in capitalism without any actual social good being produced.

'financialization is the end stage of capitalism'

So what would say to a person that has experienced communism or at least the failed attempt at creating a utopia?

>I've talked to a lot of people

That's not a real argument. You could just be lying and probably are. Even if you spoke to a million leftists that just HAPPENED to say something stupid like that, it still wouldn't even represent the movement as a whole.

...

This. And he's probably not even aware of it...

Pinko logic. What do?

Workers who take up arms and threaten to kill their employers if they don't give them a raise

>Sup Forums seriously will support 'muh revolution for freedom' but then defend a system where people are reduced to wage slaves because they're still technically free

lmao

I would first ask if was really THAT bad. Sure the USSR was shit but look at every past example of attempted socialism. It dramatically increased the living conditions compared to what the countries were before. Even disregarding the fact that the imperialist west tried to stop it at every turn.

go back to 9gag you worthless sack of piss

>Is communism the dumbest political ideology ever invented? Why do so many people think it's a good idea?

Any form of anarchism is objectively worse. You know that in Communist societies, after a brief period of faggots trying to destroy everything (Mao), the cultural and ethnic makeup of your country stays relatively the same. The price you pay for it is economic stagnation and eventual collapse, but it is sustainable for decades at a time.

Anarchism on the other hand is the belief that the void of power between governmental entities is actually desirable, which is effectively irrelevant. There will always be a government or political groupings fighting to be that government (and one of them is going to win after a few years, generally speaking).

>Is communism the dumbest political ideology ever invented?
yes

Fuck you, commie LARPing cumguzzler.

>yes the real value of a thing is based on the labor value.
No, real value it the imputs which includes labour but is not solely labour.
Moreover, you've completely neglected perceived value, which is as important, if not more so. Let's say the inputs used to make the widget is 20, but the consumer evaluates its worth to be 10 and will not spend any more. The capitalist has a few options. Find ways to reduce the input costs to meet the perceived value; advertise and market the product to hopefully convince the consumer the worth is indeed 20; or stop making the item.

Further, and this is where Marxists really flop, is they tend to view the factory in isolation, i.e. just one manufacturer of wheelbarrows. The beauty of capitalism is since anyone can acquire the means of production, any number of others may enter the marketplace to offer their take on it, be it lower price, improvements, etc.

Marxists see the capitalist as omnipotent, yet this is a gross oversimplification. The capitalist assumes the risk (investing his money, labour and idea) without guarantee of payoff, and he's the last one to reap the reward, if any are earned. All liabilities must be paid first, such as wages to the workers, interest to creditors, payment to suppliers, and tax to the state. If you take a look at the rate of success for an entrepreneur it's abysmal; it's a miracle anyone would undertake it. Further, Marxists also ignore the benefit to the consumer. A free enterprise capitalist system gives consumers a lot of power. They have options, which is much more than socialism delivers. Ultimately, since it is the consumer's money the system ought to be designed to maximise his purchasing power. Consumers have a myriad of reasons to buy a product, from simple cost to design, from nationalism to a desire to protect the environment. Free enterprise capitalism best ensures this happens. It doesn't do so perfectly, but to expect perfection is unreasonable.

>history is a one dimensional battlefield
>materialism is reality
>i can predict the future based on how i feel about the way things should be
I'm unironically not sure why Marx is considered any higher than a gradeschool level thought experiment
Seriously stating that all history is a battle between two groups is literally a highschool tier understanding of history at all

Most of its active supporters are actually Jewish. Look at the ranks of antifa. They are like 40% Jewish.

Every commie literally thinks that, retard.

...

This is an argument against neoliberal, free-market leaning economics; Not sure how this is for the ancaps

I can agree to a certain extent. Living conditions may improve after overthrowing the previous government but it doesn't mean it will continue to improve. Although that is not saying much if living conditions are so bad that any change would be an improvement.

>Yet somehow the Soviet Union transformed a bunch of illiterate peasants into a nuclear superpower in just a few generations
Hitler nearly did it in two decades (You) nincompoop, the well-being of Germany was unprecedented compared to most other European countries by 1939, and far beyond Russia

So, what job would you do then?

I read more Marx last month to brush up than you've read in your entire life. I've read Marx's POETRY. I've read Marx's letters. I've read Marx's articles, I've read articles that Marx didn't even write but edited.
I've read more Bakunin than you've read Marx, and one page of Bakunin will teach you more about human suffering than reading the Eye of Argon sober. I've read Engels. I've read Trotsky. I had the terrible lapse in judgment to read Stirner. I started with the Greeks and made it about to Hegel before I had to quit philosophy forever because I was going to sleep every night with a glass of bourbon on my bedstand just in case I woke up wanting to shoot myself. I read Lenin's pedantic explanations for why establishing his totalitarian dictatorship was an essential step in the move towards the abolition of the State, and definitely not just a way to keep him well supplied with roast beef and suckling pig.
You know who I haven't read? Hoppe. Friedman. Sowell. Hayek. I sure as fuck have never read Rand. I don't bother exposing myself to right-wing ideology… and that is because it's all self evident. I've never had to have a right wing idea explained to me more than once for it to make perfect sense, but I had to read the entire amazon fucking rainforest to come to even the beginnings of understanding the appeal of Communism. I had to broaden my horizons to such an absurd degree that even when I shut it off I don't think democracy is a good idea anymore.
I've read Marx, you little faggot. Oh my stars and garters have I read fucking Marx, and it was the most colossal waste of my time I've ever indulged in.
Never have I read a more content-free volume than the Communist Manifesto. Das Kapital was at least informative.

Welding. I went to a technical college.

Are you fucking stupid? Germany was already a leading industrial power in Europe before Hitler ever existed.

Upvoted

Typically stupid people like it.

It assumes society and the enormous and powerful government required to enforce communism will follow rules and principles that are contrary to human nature.

For example, it thinks everyone will be happy and there will be no conflict when everyone has an equal income, from doctors to garbage collectors.

In reality, the more valuable hard workers and skilled workers get sick of being as poor as the lowest workers in the society and end up doing as little work as possible since there is no monetary incentive to be as productive as possible.

This is the point at which the guys with AK47’s show up and announce how productive you must be or you get sent to the gulag.

>this fucking faggot

How about you write a novel then and stop subjecting us to your longwinded faggotry?

Communism works really well for small communities who are willing to make it work, i.e. willing to due without luxuries and willing to work for on trust that those you work for will return the favor.

Communism stops working when luxury goods and non-necessities become a priority to any degree. Well maintained communism can afford luxury goods, but if society places them into a priority over necessity then they'll eventually turn to capitalism, because it realistically supports how people actually act in large groups where as communism is idealistic and takes into no account manipulation into hierarchy.

Fascist Dictatorships and Fascist Republics works very well, the former working better depending on who the dictator is and what their goals are and the latter working better depending on if corruption gets pruned quick enough.
The fact of the matter though is it's all really just nitpicking and literally any kind of government can work so long as the people who support it want it to work. Fascist Germany worked so well not because of Fascism but because the people put their heart and soul into it. It is the same reason Rome became great. When people take pride in their country enough to die freely for it, the country becomes great and as does its government as the government is a representation of the people and country as one entity.

It's why America has become shit; our pride in ourselves is gone; we care more for the consequences of individual actions than our pride and honor as a nation.
Communism isn't the dumbest ideology, but it is among the most naive. It just lets what is inevitable happen far faster, where other delay the reaction of human greed.

what is the terms of WW1

Enjoy your low pay, commieblock housing, chronic shortages of goods and services, as well as being completely beneath the boot of a bunch of pseudo-intellectual bureaucrats.

>The beauty of capitalism is since anyone can acquire the means of production...

Not when the bourgeois are those that own the means of production, not to mention the fact that some of the rentier class ie bankers, stockholders, etc. can indirectly derive surplus and thereby work with the bourgeois against the interests of the workers. Marx was right; the workers basically pay the bourgeois (the "capitalists") to own the means of production that the workers themselves use to make things

>just in case I woke up wanting to shoot myself.

You should have done it, faggot.

Fpbp. Because most people are stupid and lazy, communism is a doctrine for the stupid and lazy.

Communism isn't the dumbest ideology. They took some valid criticisms of capitalsms, several semi-valid, and then proceeded to engage in the ultimate game of one-upsmanship the world's ever seen.
It's truly an ideology for the elite, because they're the only ones who can survive the carnage.

>this whole spiel
nice, dude. You made me realize that I've read far more leftist /lit/ than I have conservative /lit/ despite being a conservative, and that this is literally the result of the right being, well, right. I could explain the standpoint and justifications of the Austrian school off the top of my head without having read any full work by Mises or Rothbard and yet entire catalogues of Hegelian philosophy have passed through one of my ears and out the other as quickly as it came. It would take me an extended sit/think to explain what the fuck is going on in leftist thought of the last 200 years if I wasn't able to boil it down to "nothing makes sense at all and everything is completely incoherent"

Not bad. That's a good trade here in the States.
Question:
Is communism about raising the living standards of people so that they have shelter, plenty of food, and feel safe?

You're talking about bugmen. Most of us here are not the type of person you describe.

I will enjoy my cozy modest house, goods and services produced not by starving children in the third world but by my fellow brothers and sisters who create solely for the purpose of passion and helping the community, as well as being part of a democratic world where each individual matters.

Typical commie deflection
>It's not shit you just thought it was shit before you read it!
>It wasn't REAL communism.

Like fucking clockwork.

Yes it is.

If you go into a middle class suburban neighborhood, everyone's needs are met. They all trust their fellow neighbors and leave their doors unlocked and have BBQs. That's what we want to crate worldwide. Crime and greed only exist because of scarcity.

Is this a rhetorical question?
Do the words "useful idiot" mean anything to you?

This is a well played response. However, how can you expect a society of millions of people to arrive at the same conclusions you did? Do you really believe that a large group of people can live and work towards a goal that took you so much effort to realize? How will people do that without access to a library, freedom on the internet, or the power to buy and own books? Or is the best method simply to say "shut up and trust that my way is correct"? This is why communism can not function for large groups of people and societies.