So i watched the entire Madoka Magica series, and subsequent film Rebellion in the last two days, i have a few questions.
Why did Bebe, a witch come back? Didn't Madoka essentially remove all witches past/present/future.. And Bebe as Charlotte was killed so i'm not to sure why she's back in a girl form.
Madoka was strong enough to re-write the universe thanks to the years and years of time-loop shenanigans Homura took part in, making her role in the universe greater. Why was Homura suddenly strong enough to do the same at the end of Rebellion?
Madoka exists as a concept at the end of the series, preventing girls from turning into witches. What caused Homura to nearly become a witch (was it the fact Madoka didn't exist anymore?) and how did Kyubey(s) seal her off in the egg world thing and stop the law of cycles, or in other words Madoka from coming down and taking on her grief?..
What is the role of Kyubey(s) race now that the universe has changed again, or is this left open-ended?
Why is Mami best girl?
John Roberts
2. I guess Homura might be that strong because technically she too went through time loop after time loop, being the overlying cause behind Madoka meeting her end who knows how many times and building in power. It's kind of vague, but then show's explanation was as well. 3. Kyubey was able to seal her off because lol
Josiah Gutierrez
5. It's her gentle motherly yet professional nature.
Isaac Morgan
The witch powers became a natural extension of their magical girl powers. They can still use it without being controlled by it. See Sayaka using Octavia as a summon.
The thing that kept making Madoka stronger was also making Homura stronger. Walpurgisnacht too.
The incubators made an isolation field around Homura and were going to try to capture Madoka when she came down. Madoka willing gave up her memories to fool Kyubey, but this allowed Homura to witch out. The isolation field kept her from going full witch though.
Open ended / Homura's stress relievers.
keiki
Dylan Mitchell
5) Because even struggling in life she managed to keep a noble intent to help the ones in need.
Henry Gomez
1. For some random reason Madoka decided to add her to her posse I guess? Since she used to be a witch she can use witch powers, just like Sayaka did in the movie since she also witched out. It's kind of a paradox since Madoka should have rewrote those timelines after becoming a concept but I guess it's just >time shit.
2 is as said, Homura got as much karmic power as Madoka did going through loops and it seems like it only manifests when the girls transform, in Madoka's case going human->magic girl and Homura going magic girl->witch.
3. Homura's soul gem clouded because she was in despair over not being able to cuddle Madoka anymore. In fact she was actually planning to 'steal' Madoka back since the very beginning of the movie, and she only forgot about it once getting trapped in Kyubey magic prison since it had mindwiping properties, and she remembers again once they're almost busted out (when she says "I won't hesitate anymore"). Kyubeys managed to seal her and Madoka because they're technowizards.
4. Who knows, since we saw some 'darkness' in Kyubey's eyes at the end I personally assume Homura's using them as entropy slaves as revenge.
5. She's not.
Oliver Edwards
>1. Didn't Madoka created some kind of "Witch Heaven" where she took all the girls that shared the same dreadful fate? That's why Sayaka and Nene were able to interfere in the shitfest. The original ending was actually perfect, why the fuck Homura would reject being happy forever together with her most beloved one just to "bring her back to life", which is a completely stupid concept, at least in this universe.
William Allen
That's the question isn't it Nobody knows, and nobody ever will
Camden Foster
Bebe* Fuck, too much New Game.
Aiden Sanchez
>wanting to share your waifu
Mason Harris
>Bebe Been gone a couple months; Is this some new meme or something?
Ryan Thompson
Did you watch Rebellion
Benjamin Johnson
>Why did Bebe, a witch come back? Didn't Madoka essentially remove all witches past/present/future.. And Bebe as Charlotte was killed so i'm not to sure why she's back in a girl form. All continuities "existed" within Madoka's Valhalla, just as Madoka remembers all continuities (which she told Homura in naked space). Both Sayaka and Nagisa have died and become part of the Law of Cycles, so they can tap into any part of those continuities. Alternatively, the witch part of you is extant whether or not you ever actually become a witch in any continuity.
> Madoka was strong enough to re-write the universe thanks to the years and years of time-loop shenanigans Homura took part in, making her role in the universe greater. Why was Homura suddenly strong enough to do the same at the end of Rebellion? She was also a part of those time loops. But also because she didn't use any pent up potential to make a wish and become a magical girl. She was just using a force stronger than despair to become a demon. But also, you know, bull shit reasons.
> Madoka exists as a concept at the end of the series, preventing girls from turning into witches. What caused Homura to nearly become a witch (was it the fact Madoka didn't exist anymore?) and how did Kyubey(s) seal her off in the egg world thing and stop the law of cycles, or in other words Madoka from coming down and taking on her grief?.. Magical girls don't become witches because Madoka can reach them and suck out their grief. QB simply put Homura somewhere Madoka couldn't reach her, and she became a witch inside that barrier.
> What is the role of Kyubey(s) race now that the universe has changed again, or is this left open-ended? Homura's onahole.
> Why is Mami best girl? No commento.
Jeremiah Reed
It's only a matter of time before the madoka shit posters arrive and destroy a good discussion thread. It, as always, was good while it lasted
Ryder Torres
You've damned us now you fool
Daniel Cooper
>why the fuck Homura would reject being happy forever together with her most beloved one just to "bring her back to life", which is a completely stupid concept, at least in this universe. It wasn't just to bring her back to life, however. I thought the anime ending was pretty fine as is as well, but the movie pretty plainly points out exactly why Homura would "rebel", and in fact there were seeds that showed that she had objections to/pitied what Madoka had become in the series as well.
Actually, I'll just shut up and post this image, since it explains everything so well.
Isaiah Young
Fuck, that wasn't the image I meant how did that even happen.
Jace Reyes
The first one was fine.
Matthew Robinson
>Why was Homura suddenly strong enough to do the same at the end of Rebellion?
Because love is the pinnacle of human emotion and stronger than hope or despair. Anything else is anons trying to rationalize it. In the Wraith Arc interquel that concluded last month, Homura gets the special emotion called love and it was created by both her and Madoka's desire to be together again during the naked space hug. >Tfw Shaft is aware only yurishitters still follow this franchise
Sebastian Lee
That doesn't actually change my opinion in the matter, it just deepen what I already said. Bringing Madoka "back to life" to create a world where she could be happy was just a concept Homura created in her own head, you could say that is understandable but it was definitely a mistake and Homura simply took the bad end route, what a douche.
Jeremiah Morris
How was it a mistake? Everyone was happy in the end.
Gabriel Cook
Sayaka is best girl. I self-insert as Kyosuke while imagining getting cucked by Kyoko.
Gabriel Green
>be in the Matrix >choose the blue pill Yeah, "happy". I wonder if Madoka will ever be able to grow up or fall in love in this "perfect world", I mean, Homura will have her trapped in that bubble for all eternity, no future, no past, no death, no new life, and no nothing outside the bubble, is really sad if you think about it.
Jeremiah Davis
The Matrix sucked though. Smith explicitly states that they made it realistic and shitty instead of a utopia because people were thinking it was too good to be true. Not to mention the machines were using everyone as batteries. Meanwhile Homura just pretty much took everyone into her utopia with no downsides mentioned.
Isaiah Lewis
Rebellion is otaku-pandering cash-grab shit. It is not canon. Discussing Rebellion is like discussing any bad fanfiction.
>Why is Mami best girl? Factually incorrect.
Blake Garcia
>3 Madoka exists, but not in the physical world. She exists somewhere between realities, but it's really unspecified. That's partly why she's called a concept, the other reason is because she embodies hope for all.
Parker Brooks
God is kind and merciful.
Joseph Richardson
The answer to any and all questions about the Rebellion's plot holes is "we need to ruin the conclusive ending of the TV series to create hooks for a sequel, so fuck you and your questions".
Matthew Hughes
>In fact she was actually planning to 'steal' Madoka back since the very beginning of the movie Wrong
Justin Turner
>with no downsides mentioned Read the rest of my post, there's not even an "utopia", is just Madoka, the universe is Madoka and whatever that surround her, there's nothing else, or better said, there's just nothingness in this new world. Is like playing the same VN route for all eternity, even if Homura would never get bored of it, Madoka won't be more than a sexual doll, that's not life, even less a "perfect" life.
Jeremiah Rivera
Stop making shit up
Andrew Long
>1 In story reason was because Madoka had a grand plan to get Homura out of the incubator's clutches The real reason is fanservice >2 plot >4 It's not clear, but I think the consensus is that they're Homura's little bitches. >5 pic related
Henry Smith
Homura's barrier pretty explicitly expanded to cover the universe.
Nathan Miller
This thread is on about Madoka's butt from now on.
John Lewis
It's true. She was having second thoughts but her experience with memory-wiped Madoka and hearing her 'true' feelings steeled her conviction and so she followed through with it, which is why she said "I won't hesitate anymore" shortly before busting out of the Kyubey barrier.
Luis Wright
>Utopia >it's a witch barrier >Homura's minions are running around >she brainwashed everyone >law of cycles MIA >The universe is at the mercy of a mentally unstable teenage girl who would sacrifice the world everything if she thought it was for the good of one person >If Madoka gets even a sniff of something wrong, she'll get her memories back and Homura will have to brainwash her again Rewatch and pay attention this time.
Liam Morris
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Jeremiah Smith
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Jackson Brooks
See, all of the negatives are stuff that could potentially go wrong, not anything that's demonstrably a problem as of the end of the movie. We have to actually wait and see to know for sure.
Carson Campbell
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Andrew Jenkins
Rebellion was basically fanservice, and obviously wasn't supposed to make sense.
For example, if the Incubators could literally create pocket realities that ignored fundamental laws of the universe then they've already solved heat death.
Matthew Robinson
Not to mention that Madoka herself doesn't even feel like she belongs in there, defeating the whole purpose of the whole thing
Isaiah Morris
And yet we see everyone at the end living their lives in bliss, except for Homura who falls off a cliff. Truly the hero they don't deserve.
Ayden Reyes
Sayaka~
David Thomas
How do you figure?
Aiden Price
So what once Madoka die? Will Homura let Madoka get married or have children? And what about those children? Will they live happy lives? Homura will only reset the reality to make the world perfect for Madoka every time, she won't let her die, she won't let her go, simple as that, i'm not making shit up. And my main point remain, that the first world that Madoka created was perfect and Homura just shit everything up.
Samuel Howard
>potentially >law of cycles MIA It's not that it will potentially go wrong, it's that it WILL go wrong. And the way Homura made everything happen was bad. She essentially backstabbed everyone so she could fullfill her fantasy.
Jace Carter
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Gabriel Bennett
Oh fuck off you cancerous shit, we're having a good thread here without your circlejerk attentionwhoring.
Easton Green
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
Connor King
Obviously Homura will seduce Madoka. As for the late future, depends if Homura has power over life and death or not.
Christopher Lopez
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Brody Young
Wraiths still exist, ergo the Law of Cycles is still active. Homura explicitly split Madoka in two. That will surely have some sort of ramifications, but we have no way of knowing what yet.
>the way Homura made everything happen was bad Hero they don't deserve etc.
Sebastian Martin
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Robert Watson
I love her
Jackson Diaz
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Joshua Reed
If the Incubators could trap and contain Madoka, then they should also be able to suppress the the death death.
At the very least they could simply create a mirror reality that won't die from heat death.
Ian Martin
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Lucas Watson
Sayaka was a part of the law of cycles, and Homura said Sayaka wasn't supposed to come back, yet she did. If that's not an indication that the law of cycles is defunct then I don't know what is. >wraiths still exist we never see that >Homura explicitly split Madoka in two Homura split Madoka from her powers (madokami) and consumed them, and she plopped Madoka in her barrier with everyone else after she brainwashed her.
Tyler Thompson
Where do these assumptions come from? Being able to create a closed space doesn't mean they can subvert entropy. And the whole mirror reality thing is a property of witch's barriers, not Incubator technology. And they can ALREADY suppress the heat death, that's exactly what they're doing the entire time they're on Earth.
Nathan Watson
Rebellion isnt canon.
Colton Rodriguez
>we never see that Homura mentions wraiths. >inb4 "hurr she's a devil she must be lying for no reason" There's no reason to include a line like that if it's not meaningful. The existence of wraiths means that the LoC's main function is still working, period.
>Homura split Madoka from her powers (madokami) and consumed them Where do you get that? Homura's power came from her own emotions, not stealing Madoka's.
Michael Rodriguez
She obviously have, so what? She will make Madoka and her family inmortal? And what about the people her family consider important too? She will just make them inmortals? And so on till everyone in the universe is inmortal? Now that sounds stupid.
Landon Morales
Why the fuck are you asking me?
Luis Cox
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Hudson Myers
Why did you reply to me?
Dylan Myers
Except you forget Madoka's wish. The most important part being: >"I will erase every witch in every universe, past and future with my own hands." Since she said "...with my own hands," the law of cycles literally cannot function without her. >wraiths If you give me a timestamp I'll go see >powers I'll give you that. >Sayaka I want to see you refute this
Christian Baker
I'm on the last episode of Madoka should I go ahead and watch the movies? Some people say their garbage.
Landon Robinson
Because you asked me a question, so I answered. Now answer mine. Why the fuck are you asking me about possible future storylines when I'm not a writer for the series?
William Reed
Just watch the conversation between Homura and Sayaka again, it's not that long.
>Sayaka This is no more a sign that the LoC has stopped working than Madoka's existence is. Homura broke off part of the LoC, and Sayaka and Nagisa got swept along for the ride.
Landon Sanders
First to are recaps that take out a lot of shit. Skip them. 3rd is devicive as hell. Lots of people think it's shit and lots of others think it's great. Personally, I'm in the former camp. There's fanservice, unlike the series, and there are weird plot holes in the ending. The ending in general is infuriating.
Ayden Jenkins
Because she couldn't have Madoka all for herself, as long as Madoka is the Goddess. I think that's why.
Leo Morgan
Rebellion is just doujin tier, as someone that waited 3 years to watch it, I regret I did.
Oliver Hernandez
Rebellion is a masterpiece
Brandon Mitchell
>Homura was selfish Right on point. You would think Homura would have loved to spend eternity in the afterlife with her friends.
Adrian Myers
Was she even on good terms with any of the other girls besides Madoka?
Christopher Jones
Because Homura thought it was too heavy of a burden for Madoka to bear, dumb-dumbs.
Three years later I'm still amazed how such a simple plot point goes over so many people's heads.
Chase Bell
>After all of the wraiths are destroyed, perhaps I will [destroy the universe]. She's going to cut herself with all that edge.
Easton Howard
I could ask the exactly same thing to you?. Back to my original comment, I'm talking about what we know, and making suppositions over facts, this is the world Homura made for Madoka, this is Madoka's world, there's nothing before, there's nothing after, unless yeah, you are right, if they made a second season to solve this nightmare, everything could happen and discredit what i'm saying, but as for what WE FUCKING KNOW, this is an horrible, horrible fantasy world where there's nothing else beyond Madoka.
Jayden Sanders
I'm of the opinion that she's just enjoying antagonizing Sayaka
I mean, who doesn't?
Samuel Hernandez
No, we don't know that. Literally all we know is that Homura put a barrier around the universe and the girls are shown to be living happy lives inside of it at the end of the movie. Whether Homura is going to rain meteors on everyone for giggles or whatever after the final frame of the movie is entirely speculation.
Jacob Taylor
>Ignoring all of the symbolism about how much she despised Madoka's wish >Ignoring "I've finally... caught you! I told you, Madoka. That I'll never let go of you again."
David Miller
I actually like baka
Lincoln Morris
She hated Madoka's wish in part because of how raw of a deal it was for Madoka. Flower field scene nigga.
Christian Green
You mean the scene where brainwashed Madoka reassures a Homura about her bad dream?
Xavier Johnson
Whether you agree with Homura's reasoning is a totally separate issue to what her actual motivation for her actions was. Please don't conflate the two.
Brody Davis
>Who is Madoka?
Luis Ross
Her motivation was selfish. Madoka's wellbeing was her excuse.
Alexander Kelly
The imaginary friend that talks to you when you're lonely.
Jaxon Torres
Not him but I'd argue it was the opposite, that her motivation was too selfless, albeit it got somewhat twisted near the end when she went full blown evil yandere.
Jordan Rodriguez
You're wrong. Madoka's well-being is the one thing she's been fighting for since the first timeline. Her interpretation of how to best protect Madoka has obviously shifted drastically, from wanting to fight alongside her initially to a much more possessive and forceful strategy towards the end, but "to save Madoka" is and always has been her wish.
Josiah Johnson
She could also make dolphins fly and rape people, it doesn't matter, are you saying that is possible that Homura simply get bored of Madoka, the reason she did all this shit and let the world go on without her? Yeah, no, said whatever you want, but that's not possible, it won't be possible, and if you say otherwise you are just full of bullshit, that's all.
Mason Turner
Her motivation was power. Notice how she always would complain about how weak she was even to the point of tears and when Madoka finally gained her power she obviously couldn't trust Madoka with it going by how bad her decision making skills were up until that point and she didn't know if it was just a big trick being played on her by the incubators. The only way to fix everything was by herself and when the power was dangling right in front of her face especially after everything she went through she took it without hesitation.
Benjamin Johnson
Fuck off namefag.
Isaiah Johnson
Mean to quote Fuck this, I just post Mami.
Asher Martinez
He's partly right, though.
Connor Flores
I do what I want nerd and you not liking it just makes it worthwhile.
Asher Lee
You're right. What compelled her to take action in the end was yandere selfishness, as you described.
Jeremiah Roberts
Speaking of power.
Daniel Wilson
The whole selfishness vs selflessness, "is it being selfish if it's for someone else's sake" thing is a whole can of worms I don't feel like getting into for the hundredth time tonight. The point is, whatever negative connotations you want to put on it, the fact remains that she did it for Madoka's sake, as she always has.