Blacks & The Bar Exam

So, I've been meaning to post something about this.

I am a recent law graduate. I attended a low second-tier/high third-tier school. Despite its ranking, my law school is a very good school at which to receive a legal education. I also passed the bar not too long ago.

Now, a friend of mine informed me not too long ago that nearly all the Black people she knew in our graduating class failed the bar. Like, a significant portion of them. Surely, this is something in which Sup Forums would be interested.

Some of these Black people I knew, and they got super good jobs post-graduation. But they still couldn't pass the bar -- which, to be quite honest with you, is shocking.

A lot of people will blame this on 'structured racism.' But all the Blacks in my law school were well liked, very involved, social, and in general good people. They all were accepted into the law school -- just like the White students. They all had opportunities at employment while in school -- just like the White students. They all were encouraged to do well and were given the tools to be successful -- just like the White students.

What does Sup Forums think about this? A quick Google search reveals the Blacks have FAR lower passage rates than Whites. This is interesting. But it's far more interesting when the statistics turn into actual people you know, people with whom you interacted on a daily basis.

Other urls found in this thread:

abovethelaw.com/2013/08/whats-more-racist-the-trouble-with-low-bar-passage-rates-at-historically-black-law-schools/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Anyone becoming a lawyer in this day and age is retarded.

The justice system is going to be enforced by an omniscient AI. Lawyers will be obsolesced. There is not argument that can defeat video evidence of a crime.

Could just be bad at taking tests. Some people are like that.

>t. fat NEET

If you think the AI is going to take over the legal system anytime soon, you're fucking retarded.

If it does happen, it won't be for quite a bit.

Especially niggers.

>He thinks strong AI is coming soon
I bet you don't even know how to code.

They're trying to at least automate work that law clerks do for things like trusts and estate work. I'd say that lawyers who do criminal defense or the like will probably be fine but any law job that requires a lot of tedium poring through a bunch of loopholes for tax/estate/intellectual property will probably be the first to be automated. Probably 15-20 years before it could be reliably used from what I've read.

Perhaps. I don't know. I'm not going to say what I'm involved in, but there is literally no signs that AI is encroaching on the legal profession. The attorneys still write and argument and litigate. The clerks still handle the administrative work. Judges still judge. Again, no sign, whatsoever.

Take it from someone in the law.

Bump

Here's the thing, with the high status jobs like law, they will just teach lawyers how to code/augment/manage the AI systems. Same with medicine.

The idea that programmers will be taking these high status jobs is laughable, the knowledge base is too niche for them to be useful on their own, much easier to just train the professionals coding principles than coders the principles of law/med etc

I'm in my first year of law school now. Our 1L class is about 140 students. Only like 4 of those are black despite all of the scholarships and incentives provided.

>shocking

I was actually shocked. I'm not going to lie.

I will once against assert -- there is no AI takeover of the law in the foreseeable future.

This is super off topic, though.

About ~15/20 of my graduating class was Black.

Maybe the Bar Exam should have some kind of affirmative action in order to make it easier for black folks, its only fair

If we get an AI that will make everyone in the legal system obsolete, then it will make just about every other job we currently have obsolete so you might as well just not have a job right?

Isn't that the idea of a dystopian future in which no one has to work so they don't actually know why they're living? I think humans crave adversity no matter how much they deny that it's stressful. We wouldn't throw ourselves off cliffs and out of planes otherwise.

Did they fail character and fitness? Or was it the actual examination?

What is the bar exam exactly?
And stop reddit spacing

Are you ACTUALLY trying to imply that programming is easier than law? Are you fucking kidding me? You think programming an artificial mind is easier than defending a nigger in court? Get the fuck off my board.

Yes, programming is literally babby tier

I understand that in the real world people just say 'oh wow so hard!!! xD' when you can program, it's just because it's so foreign to most people.

But the reality is, it's fucking easy.

This is so fucking dumb. I hate when you morons say this

Is there a way you can simply explain what the bar exam is like? Essay? I’ve always wondered this.

t. soyboy

Programming isn't hard dude. That's why self-taught, pajeets, chens, and code camps are taking yer jerbs

especially blacks
tests in any form are therefore racist.

OP, I am a fellow lawyer who was raised in a family of lawyers. My mother is a judge, several of my cousins are lawyers, and one of my family friends was recently appointed to the Utah supreme court. This said, I think that there is a special capacity for a certain type of thought that is prevalent among those who practice the law and especially among those who are good at it. Law requires certain critical thinking skills, the ability to analyse argument and situation, the ability to see the way in which certain determinations will play out in the bigger picture, an innate linguistic understanding, and the ability to read and utilize nuance. I think a lot of the racist things Sup Forums says can be thrown out the window, but I will say that certain races are not as inclined to this kind of practice as others. For example, you do not see as many Asian lawyers as you might expect. Now, there are countless intelligent Asian people, but their abilities tend not to be those required by law. As such you see them in different professions. What you do see, are a lot of white lawyers (especially of Italian or German descent) and Jews. For blacks and other races, perhaps a similar argument can be made.

Why the fuck are we talking about this stupid off topic bullshit that won't even be relevant for the next hundred years if ever?

Usually 2 days - depending on the State.

One day is devoted to multiple choice - usually 6 hours worth.

The other day is devoted to essays. You're basically given questions requiring you to pair fact and law in a comprehensive, logical manner.

Sounds easy? Think fucking again. Shit is brutal.

I can sorta understand. I took a constitutional law class in college and the exams were multiple choice. Hardest one I’ve ever taken.

That denial.

The funny thing is, the take over will happen nigh overnight, and we are all helping it happen with CAPTCHA and google searching.

you just make an image of a server and copy.

I'm a CS wage slave and I would push my son into vocational arts over law and medicine.

Yea but that’s one lawyer takin 10,000 jobs

It is difficult, you have to know the law like the back of your hand and then you need to apply argument into a legal framework based on the structure of the law itself, legal precedent, the situation as it presents itself, and according to current law and policy. Additionally you have to do this according to courtroom codes of conduct, etiquette, and protocol. The essay part is definitely the trickier part. Took JFK three fucking times to pass, and FDR didn't pass the first time.

I'd say initially I felt inclined to disagree with you, but every good lawyer I've met that has been Asian has been half Asian so there might be merit in the idea that linguistic intelligence is a limiting factor in being able to litigate well. Or at least to not perform well on the bar exam. So far as I can remember though the bar exam was mostly just that if you could remember the core law or issue in the question you could infer the rest of the answer from the minutiae. Do black lawyers perform well on average on the LSAT?

>claims to be a lawyer
>writes like a developmentally delayed middle schooler who has never heard of paragraphs

nice LARP

Realistically you can even invent your own rule that can be used to make the argument in your essay answer so long as it makes a modicum of sense and you apply it well. At least I remember that doing so can still get you points in the essay section.

No, firms are cutthroat. They will all have different AI systems and battle it out. It will become closer to a software company, with seniors and jrs... which actually is pretty much how law works now.

Law is only difficult because human language isn't a structured language.

Law is simply memory recall and categorisation. Lawyers exist because human language isn't structured.

>Everyone else's field is just x
>But MY field isn't
>AI will NEVER learn to develop/apply mathematical algorithms on its own, nope too complex, yessiree

>There is not argument that can defeat video evidence of a crime.

Are you implying that once you become an attorney, the only thing you do is criminal defense? Good god you're an idiot.
>bankruptcy
>tax
>land use
>immigration
>estate planning

Plenty more out there.

It could be that they perform especially bad on whatever the bar requires. IQ is not one single monolithic number, there are subtests and blacks are better than whites at some tests (at the *same* IQ) and vice versa.

I'm at lobbying firm and we have attorneys here. NONE of us are getting automated soon. Our jobs revolve around the manipulation of feelings and political connections. Those cannot be automated.

I think that linguistic ability becomes important when litigating and examining the nuanced pieces of a situation as it might be presented to you on paper (which most of the time it is). But the ability to take the core law and precedent and apply it to a question to infer the answer and argue it well is part of the logical/linguistic thinking that I was referring to. As for how well blacks perform on the LSAT, I don't know.

>There is not argument that can defeat video evidence of a crime.
The ability to scan someone's pics and fake their moon landing is coming WAY fucking quicker than "AI"

That's just too fucking bad.

Were you trying to come up with the most insubstantial and pedantic response to what I wrote as humanly possible? Because regardless of if you were or not you nailed doing just that.

Thank you.
This just reinforces what we already knew. Aside from the usual memery and silliness that I often post with and in all seriousness blacks are the cause of their own problems without a flicker of doubt.
We are their victims and we are taking the blame, whichever way you spin it that is unjust and morally appalling.
This cannot continue and those involved must be punished.

Lawyer here. You are retarded.

It's objectively harder. Sure, printf hello world is easy, but many algorithms have O(nlogn) complexity. Law is just root memorization.

Blank Canadians, 10% are top pol, 90% are dick washers.
They do it to collect (You)s.

It's pretty easy if you have a basic understanding of the law. Fucking plebs.

Software ''engineers'' are so fucking jealous of everyone else. Their entire life goal is to destroy everyone else's career.

Their id can be explained through to pathways:

1) So only they can afford the tendies.

2) Then, they will get the Stacey.

The administrative state is deeply infested with leftists. The government will eventually somehow force them to make the test easier to promote diversity.


A test where whites succeed more t han blacks will not be allowed to continue in radical leftist america.

People hyping AI are not software engineers, they are NEET's

Anyone working with software knows strong AI is a million years away

AH YES ALL THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE FUCKING LEGAL SYSTEM WILL BE MAGICALLY SOLVED BY A.I. - AND VIDEO EVIDENCE ?!??!! WHAT ?!?!?! NOT ALL CASES HAVE THIS YOU FUCKER !!!!!! IT WOULD NOT BE AS EASY AS SLAPPING TOGETHER VIDEO EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY IN CODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Law student

There will be cameras everywhere

Not just memorisation but that's a large part. They have to be able to use the data coherently and wisely (or sneakily).
I used to work for solicitors. Some are really cool people believe it or not.
There are apps now that do the legal research for them but the apps can't argue a case cunningly.

pretty much this

LOOOOOL

Wow, O(nlogn) complexity! Algebra is fucking hard dude, WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN??!?

I guess I have to take an intro to algorithms course at a community college to grasp that fancy big o notation.

I'm sure you don't just google shit on stackoverflow and reference the documentation, right user?

I remember when someone posted an online practice test to the bar exam on Sup Forums that consisted of multiple choice questions that were actually used in past exams. It's hard as shit just because of the specific legal jargon involved, not to mention the choices in some of the questions seemed almost interchangeable until you started to really think about what's being asked.

>the manipulation of feelings and political connections. Those cannot be automated.
except on Sup Forums

> Blacks can't pass the bar exam.

They should test and chicken and watermelon instead. 100% black pass rate guaranteed.

It means that if a lawyer came up with an "easy algorithm", it would take a million years to compute a problem, and it would be useless.

If a software engineer did it, it would only take a few minutes.

Algorithm optimization is objectively more demanding than anything a lawyer has to do. My parents are lawyers, so you can't bullshit me on this one.

>low ranking
>good school
LOL

reminds me of my Engineering EIT exam I took and passed easily while every black I knew failed it. % year later and I'm working min wage jobs still, while all those black morons have nice high paying jobs.

If you passed the bar it shouldn’t be hard to figure out: blacks are dumb and admitted to all types of schools based mostly on affirmative action. Then are hired based on a similar diversity requirement. But (((they))) haven’t yet figured out how to mandate a certain cognitive threshold. Therefore, they can’t do things White/Asian people can do at given education levels, such as pass the bar.

>fellow lawyer who was raised in a family of lairs.

You and your family get the rope first...

Low iq

Programming is easy, it's just a trade without any physical component.

Not really sure why you think law is more complex though, any non-autist doing STEM could do law without breaking a sweat. The exclusivity is artificially maintained, much like bankers. A profession for midwits and those seeking status, power, wealth. Pretty shit-tier in terms of enlightenment.

So you have too choices, work at Macdonalds, or go to law school, which do you choose, if you chose Macdonalds you're a fucking idiot

>applying solved algorithms is objectively more difficult than anything a lawyer ever does.

You're objectively jelly that you don't get respect

>everything is already solved!
Oh okay, you're just a retard and never worked with something real in your life.

abovethelaw.com/2013/08/whats-more-racist-the-trouble-with-low-bar-passage-rates-at-historically-black-law-schools/

This. I think lawyers will have more highly specialized A.I. virtual assistants in the future

>3

Oh yeah - go to law school and get $100K in debt - and then WORK AT MCDONALDS anyways.

Doubleplus good.

Because law takes 8 years of personal dedication and fierce competition, while you can literally learn to be a productive programmer in a year or less.

Sure, you won't end up at google, but you'll know the fundamentals.

Lawyers are the only people who actually do get respect. Enjoy being jealous

If that was the case than all the idiot in STEM would be in law and finance, but that's not the case.

Even in the most theoretically Orwellian society there can always be a case that contains no video footage whatsoever...like in the disagreement of a contract...

>About ~15/20 of my graduating class was Black.

15 out of the 20 were black?

>I am a recent law graduate. I attended a low second-tier/high third-tier school.

No OP, you attended a shit-tier "law" school that (((they))) invented to help their playthings invade the legal system.

You can be a productive judicial clerk in 1 month and pass the bar in 6 months

All the constraints are pure bureaucracy to keep the system alive

Everything isn't...but a fuck ton is. And let's be realistic, 90% of programmers are doing web dev, CRUD apps, databases.

The guys doing high level machine learning aren't your average, they generally have PhD's in math, not CS

>get parents to pay for tuition or donate enough to get you a full scholership
>graduate
>work at Macdonalds but even then at least you enjoyed 7 years of school when the other choice is go straight from high-school to Macdonalds.

I went to one of the "big 3" law schools (HYS) and it was more than apparent that most of the black admits were several notches below the rest of the class, intellectually. That's just how it was. We're talking about people who scored significantly lower on the LSAT and got in through affirmative-action. It was obvious to anyone who cared to observe, but it was (of course) forbidden to mention out loud.

The ethics portion is the major problem area for them. It requires a high level of abstract thinking and cannot really be studied for.

3/4 of the blacks practicing law in my city are Nigerian.

By that standard, you can learn Python in 30 mins.

If you graduate from Law School and work at McDonalds you are going out of your way to work below the value of your labor, you're an idiot, no one does this, this never happens, the worst ive seen is that a lawyer became a rapper.

>a family of lairs
I assume you mean liars as none of us house villains, but okay. They're good people who really do value justice and ethics. They aren't corporate attorneys or anything like that, so they are pretty just, honestly. Even if they weren't, they would stand a pretty good chance of wiggling out of getting the rope and convincing the judge to give it to you instead.

>Post about race and the bar exam
>Start talking about the alleged AI of the law

Lol.

That's like saying "let's be realistic, most lawyers are just flipping papers and never get to use all they learned"

Until machines learn to write their own code, your argument and general stance is mathematically incorrect. A common programmer processes discrete algorithms in far greater detail than common machine learning practices currently employ.

An intelligent person who has appropriate prep materials like the Conviser Mini Review for the relevant state can usually pass any bar exam with 10 days of study; perhaps a week or even a bit less if the person reads quickly and has a good memory. People who study (and I mean genuinely study; not just fuck around) for months on-end and still can't pass the exam are generally not equipped to be competent lawyers.

It takes 3 years (sometimes less)....it's about reading, reading and more reading, mastery of socratic method and being able to defend your arguments. Simple as that.

Ok, show me mathematically why I'm incorrect.

I'm waiting.

>What does Sup Forums think about this?

>What does Sup Forums think about this?

>What does Sup Forums think about this?

>What does Sup Forums think about this?

I'm factoring in undergraduate education.

>What does Sup Forums think about this?

Let a = b.

a can create b. b cannot create b. But since b = a, b must be able to create b. A contradiction.

Therefore a != b.

Q.E.D.

>But they still couldn't pass the bar -- which, to be quite honest with you, is shocking.

I think it is clutter. We have all seen these in hundreds of threads.