Who was in the wrong?

Who was in the wrong?

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Having seen the Berserk anime i have to say Miyazaki was right.

I think both sides have valid perspectives on the issue, and I think miyazaki is a crabby old fart, but I'm glad he made the point he did. People do not consider the far-reaching societal implications of their work. The fact that these programmers feel that they have done absolutely nothing wrong is an example of how inconsiderate and narrow minded they are being in this.

Miyazaki is preventing anime advancements, CG will end up looking just as good if not better than hand drawn animation and with better framerates as well and Miyazaki is delaying it with this kind of bullshit stunt.

This. 3DCG is just bad, it always looks like trash. There's no good argument for it unless your a studio trying to save some cash, which is understandable at least. I don't see how anyone else can defend it though.

>Trying to get machines to draw like humans do
>Trying to industrialize art
Miyazaki sounded like an senile old man but he was right.

Please, it will only look better or the same when studios start putting more money into cg than they did into artists. Even then, you don't have any reason to be so sure.

Maybe, but that is still quite a ways off. They showed him an application that currently has the singular realistic use of "horror movie material," and expected an elderly children's cartoonist to think it was great.

That's extremely narrow minded of them, and Miyazaka was right to grill them for it. Based crabby old grandpa.

folks were saying art was already properly industrialized as far back as walter benjamin.
The funny thing about grandpa is he hated his grandpa, a generation knows only its own

That CG sure was shit but Miyazaki had no reason to got butthurt. If you don't like it and think it's shit just say so, why the fuck you are bringing your disabled friend to the conversation?

i actually get why

Part of their argument for why its good is because IT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT PAIN IS AND THATS GOOD

And he's like pain is important you little shits. This shit is dehumanizing.

if you watched the documentary you'd know that he's haunted by the fact his friends are all dying around him. For him to be sensitive on that subject at the time is purely justified.

>Try to get computer to move a body
>Does it in the most inhumane way
Miyazaki was right in stating that such movements does not relate to any human at all, making it utterly pointless. The point about AI 'making' art that doesn't feel art is good food for thought though

Why did they show this to him anyway? Something about a caterpillar film or whatever?

Their reasoning wasn't good but Miyazaki pretty much portrayed an old man yelling at clouds. Is it anymore dehuminazing than other technological devices? He's overreacting.

I mean from his position i think it is. Especially when his friends are dying all around him and shit.

>This shit is dehumanizing.

Exactly. This isn't something that's unique to AI, either, for example. The AI aspect makes this seem like it's a "new" concept, but to me it's not. The exact same thing could be said about most "horror" films in general. And Miyazaki is right. "Dehumanizing" is the right word to use here.

This is Miyazaki. Look at his work. This is somewhat like showing SAWII stuff to Mr. Rogers and then being bewildered and offended when he gets upset about it.

Miyazaki, even if he expresses in the most shitty way.

This was like a failed AI experiment, which produces complete garbage. The only excuse they found was to use it for a zombie. But even if that kind doesn't fail, it looks shitty. You don't even have to look at full CGI anime. Newer shows use full CGI characters for backgrounds, like in Re Zero, or that one battle harem I don't even recall the name of. Their movements looked procedural, and shit.

It's at least 10 years too early to replace human animators.

So he was just projecting his own insecurities?

>an old man yelling at clouds

Are you that same guy from the earlier thread?

it's his opinion and he's allowed to have it.
The documentary was good too, he finally puts away his ego and picks up the tablet and does cg art.

Oh, I can agree on that makes sense.

>The movie ones
>Oh fuck, how could they fuck this up, tier-SSS OST, the drawn part are gorgeous, oh what the fuck
>The new anime series
>They took a masterpiece and made it unwatchable, not even the story could carry it
>Is fucking two seasons
>Manga is taking a break because of this shit
Agree. Miyazaki is right.

>Being compelled to view human life as valuable, and rejecting things that encourage the opposite, means you're insecure

Oh boy

Dehumanizing who? The AI? Why is everyone acting like a retard in this thread?

Miyazaki is clearly fucking terrified that the habits and work of his generation are slowly beginning to be replaced by methods he's unfamiliar with.

He's not even good at hiding it: that line about his supposed cripple friend is just a desperate attempt discouragement. He doesn't even try to look deeper into it. Can't even tell why the fuck his opinion matters here.
He's a good storyteller but not that good.

3d shit right now isn't much to look at and it's moving slowly thanks to the japs being not the most innovative motherfuckers out there, but it's going to get more and more natural and easier/cheaper/better to use once they get into the habit. You won't need 100 people and a fortune in art supplies to make anime, just a bunch of computers and a few programs, some even being free.

If anything, he was saying the zombie's movement can't have anything projected onto it unlike say his friends' movement

When you are the top dog in the industry, and you are so fucking old you can die from falling on a banana peel, he has 0 needs to tip toe around his peers.

Threads were going back to back in the last few days, so probably no.

Imagine showing such animations to a child, for example. It is easy to understand that this technology would upset them profoundly. And that obviously horrific aspect of this technology is not at all being considered by these individuals. They are only looking at it in its most positive light, and in that narrow sightedness are overlooking the obvious. Gramps was right to reprimand them.

>Sup Forums accepting the truth
You are like an old man yelling at clouds faggot. Pointless, wasting time and annoying. Post more false quote images instead.

wtf are you rambling about you queef?

It seems unlikely two different people would gravitate to the same exact phrase by coincidence.

>old man yelling at clouds

And there it is again. Where is this phrase coming from all of a sudden? It's like I'm watching CNN in here.

What horrific aspects are you even talking about?

Probably meant that the whole thing is extremely soulless. Is a program doing all the work, and is not like the programmers had in mind to make a program about making dreams come true, is just some dodgy garbage CG animation.

I have been to three of these threads the last week. And I highly suspect is some Miyazaki/old geezer hater using that phrase over and over again without knowing what the hell it means.

Are you playing dumb, or do you really not understand, even after all that I've said?

Wait, you don't know where it comes from? It's a Simpsons reference.

>Is a program doing all the work

I fail to see the issue with this. Technology has been doing a lot of work for us for centuries

You said nothing of value, mentioned unspecified horrific aspects. Give me some examples.

this user gets it

The guy is getting all philosophical over a literal tech demo and the truly sad thing here is that some of you are buying his bullshit.

>An obscure line in an episode from 20 years ago

It's still not like you can say that that phrase is something that people in general have in their active memory. It's quite clearly being intentionally forced, which I find very strange. That someone would be that committed to slandering miyazaki in that way over this subject.

and so humanity caused its own redundancy.

This the presentation was garbage to begin with. If you want to do it, do it right like the Doraemon Stand By Me movie. Half assed attempt like this deserves harsh criticism.

>You said nothing of value
Either that or your cognitive capacities in regards to this subject are lacking for whichever reason. One of the two.

>Give me some examples.

>
>Imagine showing such animations to a child, for example. It is easy to understand that this technology would upset them profoundly. And that obviously horrific aspect of this technology is not at all being considered by these individuals.

Furthermore, it has, for decades, already well established in our society the potentially dark aspects that AI can have on our society and civilization. You're playing dumb intentionally. You should be aware of these obvious things, and should not require to demand having them spelled out to you.

How philosophical, forgive me if I don't cry since I also fail to see any issue with that. We control these machines, why should we feel threatened by them unless you think your only worth is doing something that can easily be replaced by one.

>slandering miyazaki
Honestly, nobody cares. People use this phrase because it fits the situation.

i know nothing of this guy, besides what wiki says and the couple hate meme that are around. isnt he supposed to be some sort of anime hero? did he do a change of view of just joking around or what

>he doesn't know that Miyazaki saved anime

jesus

>Honestly, nobody cares.

They apparently care enough to repeatedly come to these threads and attack him on a personal level for whatever reason. Otherwise it seems quite impossible for that specific, key phrase to be popping up all of a sudden at the frequency which it is.

You don't see the people arguing the opposite making personal attacks on the animators, for their age/appearance/etc, for example.

Are you 12 or something?

>Furthermore, it has, for decades, already well established in our society the potentially dark aspects that AI can have on our society and civilization
Established by who? Hollywood? Terminator is not real, son. Get off your moral high horse.

I get that Miyazaki feels threatened by the idea of him being replaced by a machine, but if he had any clue on how artificial intelligence can and cannot do he wouldn't make such idiotic remarks. The funny thing is that AI along with many scientific and technological advancements could one day fix afflictions such as the one his friend is suffering. The old fart is so narrow minded.

Hidetaka Miyazaki would have loved it.

>We control these machines

for how long?
witnessing the current technical development, artificial intelligence that becomes self aware isn't science fiction anymore.
so, if we're "lucky" we end up like complete degenerates like the humans in wall-e or we get exterminated because our existence is obsolete.

>Established by who? Hollywood? Terminator is not real, son. Get off your moral high horse.

>Calling me "son"
>Then accusing ME of being self righteous

Yes, I'm aware it's not real. However, that's not the point here. What is significant about it is that the general concept has already been recognized by our society in a significant way, for a long time. It's been used heavily in sci-fi entertainment, but that does not by default then mean that the concept has no real relevance. Quite to the contrary, actually. In this case, I would argue that it is entertaining precisely because it is so feasible.

im not a jap, im a casual manga reader and nothing more. if you can give infos about this guy i would appreciate it, otherwise kys

As feasible as the world ending in 2012 or zombies rising from their graves.

>hurr I'm too lazy to read
>I don't want to lurk
>durr pls spoonfeed or kys

Guess I'll just have to go and kiss my sister then, nerd.

I kind of get what he's trying to say but it's way too much of an overreaction.

>literally the best known anime director to western audiences literally fucking famous LITERALLY ACADEMY AWARD WINNING

Holy shit user

and there i thought Sup Forums was full of inbreeds, guess i found the potato award winning board

This, it sounded like someone from Sup Forums would say.

Not an argument.

There are numerous ways that AI can be recognized as a potentially destructive influence on our civilization, society, and quality of life. It does not have to necessarily be "evil sentient robots taking over the world by force."

Luddite scum

>There are numerous ways that AI can be recognized as a potentially destructive influence on our civilization, society, and quality of life.
Such as?

There is absolutely nothing immoral about having passionate and frequent sexual relations with your kawaii imouto. Only Americans make a big deal about it.

please list more japs that omg like everyone knows

>throw shit on wall
>call it art
Literally what the CGI guy is doing.

We can see here, for example, as Miyazaki points out, that we are placing technological creativity above human creativity, even when it is clearly and objectively worse (at least at this point in time).

Does it matter if a machine can do it better, if that then decreases the value society and the individual places on human life, and if that then decreases the quality of the individual's life in society?

I'm somewhat surprised that I'm having to spell all this out. Like I said I thought it was obvious, but I guess I can see why these ideas would not necessarily be self apparent to everybody. At any rate, I'm glad Miyazaki spoke his mind and brought these issues to light here. He's a good man.

Did he ever call it art?

He claims that it has artistic value. Which is not literal, but this word doesn't mean anything on Sup Forums.

The day we're able to make self-aware artifical consciousness is a time when we'll already be able to manipulate conciousness as we please

Folks seem to approach the topic of artificial intelligence the same way they approach making dinosaurs with frog genes

>3D animation will never be anywhere near as good as traditional ani-

Kojima Hideo
Meiji Tenno

>Everything will work out fine because I say it will
>There is absolutely no way any of this can go wrong
>There is no need for caution or reservation whatsoever

This isn't what you're saying, right?

except they have done absolutely nothing wrong, and have nothing to apologize for

that's not good tho
are you the sort of guy that prioritizes texture over art style in vidya

Wasn't the whole point of this to build a machine that can draw pictures like humans? I mean technically printers do that already. Obviously he meant something else but we don't really know their exact goal do we?

Why are you so paranoid?

>CG will end up

No. CG already looks better than animation. The problem is that CG is expensive as fuck and takes longer per frame to produce than most consumer grade animes.

CG can look amazing. We've had relatively decent CG since the early 00s with shit like Spirits Within but the cost is extremely restrictive to movies and games where you can spend $100 million on 1 hour of CGI.

In an anime? Fuck no. There's no fucking chance anime CGI will look good. The best you'll get is the filters you place over and behind frames to make it look more vibrant.

civilization itself is unnatural.

from a biological point of view we should still roam the forests with spear and bow.
our accumulated "knowledge" is what advanced us way too fast, neglecting too many important factos and will ultimately lead to our demise.
we "overlived" ourselves.

science is full of romantics.

now pls go ahead and give me all your (yous) and (retards).

nope, i dont know them. am i subhuman?

>Does it matter if a machine can do it better, if that then decreases the value society and the individual places on human life, and if that then decreases the quality of the individual's life in society?

Uh, of course it matters? Why wouldn't we use if it has less margin of error and better results in an acceptable price/performance ratio?

Are our new robotic overlords ready yet?

I agree with (you).

Technology is not improving the quality of life for humanity as a whole. If you look, it is actually making things worse for most people.

because control is an illusion.

people who split the atom never imagined the nuclear bomb to happen.
"pandora's box" is more than an ancient anecdote.

post QUALITY

At least en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_animation

But that's not true at all.

Relax, AI isn't going to start a revolt any soon.

Well, a bit of a paraphrase, but I suppose that about covers it.
In any case, if I can summarize your position
>everything will go horrible wrong because I say it will
>there is absolutely no way everything will be pretty chill
>there's no need for relaxation or enthusiasm whatsoever

Unlike you, I watch Chinese cartoons for entertainment.

Get off the internet you hypocrite.

It's definitely not obscure. A crop of the phrase from the episode was even a popular meme for a while. Your autistic rage is misplaced.

> t. Robot

>people who split the atom never imagined the nuclear bomb to happen
Then again, the atom bomb also did not spontaneously generate itself, did it?
It's something we've a great deal of control over, isn't it?

God he's a bitter old cunt.

There are positive and negative aspects of it, like I've said. However, and to repeat myself again, if you look at the quality of life that your average individual has in human civilization at this point in our history, it is as low as it has ever been.

Consider, for example, that, from a socio-economic point of view, you and I are in the top 10% of the global population for measurable quality of life. Do you live a good life? Are you a happy, fulfilled person, at peace with your existence?

Yes, I'm sure life was amazing in the stone age.

Miyazaki has a very developed (and specific) definition of what art is and what artistry represents for him. There's a reason all his works share similar themes and are made along similar lines. His anecdote about his disabled friend is evidence of the human-centric (and generally life or nature-related) viewpoint from which he approaches both the process of making art and the end product. Also, he's old as fuck and they showed him something weird.