Gilgamesh

>I'm the original hero so I'm the strongest
>my shit is the original so it is the best
That's like saying Windows 3.1 is better than Windows 7 because it's older, or the original iPhone is better than the iPhone 7 because it's the original too.

No, it's more like saying that Windows 7 is superior to the chinese bootleg of the bootleg of the original.

They work on the Theory of Forms, you mongrel.

So the last common ancestor of monkeys and humans are superior to a humans and monkeys both because it's the original too?

It is more like official release of Windows is better than some pirate copy. By the way, why people still use windows 7 till today?

That's how it works in RPG/Fantasies: Ancient civilizations are inexplicably more advanced than modern ones.

Its like you didnt even read the vn or listen to the beginning

The more humans there are, the shittier they are at everything

Understand that Type-Moon is a metaverse with an origin point.
The Spiral of the Root is from which everything else springs from, an all-powerful, all-knowing source where everything (literally everything) can be seen, heard, felt, and understood.
The closer things are to the Root, the more perfect they are. This is because the Root is perfection itself. As something gets further from the Root, it becomes less perfect.
Time is constantly moving further from the Root.

But you're ignoring ANCIENT ALIENS

I don't think nasuverse does evolution
Since humans were created by the Sumerian gods or something?
I don't know, I'm a filthy secondary

Gilgamesh is becoming way more of a jobber anyway. Still strong though.

Nasu finally throwing Hassans a bone is nice too see though.

Humans came about through earth's systems, which were initially created by the "Beast II" primordial sea. It is unknown who or what created "Beast II" but it is known that it later came to be known as the sumerian chaos goddess Tiamat. (Beast II surges with true ether, the building blocks of planets, so it may have been created as a tool by the soul of Earth itself, or it may have been made by the Earth Mother Goddess.)

>>my shit is the original so it is the best

It's not like Gilgamesh can beat other heroes because his weapons are the originals or better. He simply can immediately recognize the weapons of his opponents and use against them the weapons that are most effective against them.

Basically if they have scissors, he throws rocks at them, and if they have papers he throws scissors.

Even if his "rocks" are of a lower quality of other more recent "rocks", they can still destroy scissors of whatever kind.

Emiya is the worst kind of enemy he can face, because he doesn't have a weapon he can exploit the weakness off. He can't win the rock-paper-scissor against him.
Or well he could have won if he wasn't a prideful idiot and used Ea immediately.

Except it's also stated outright that his version are better than whatever every other servant has because they're the original.
There's a scene in Fate where he uses the prototype Excalibur against Saber and completely overpowers her with it.

In the Nasuverse, older = better because all of the magic of the world was stronger when the planet was young and has gotten weaker over time.

Gil uses GoB as a toolbox because his skillset is extremely poor for melee fighting compared to other servants, so he needs that handicap.

Lurk more.

The prototype isn't always better than the successor.

Archer says Gae Bolg has better firepower than Gungnir.

>Gil uses GoB as a toolbox because his skillset is extremely poor for melee fighting compared to other servants, so he needs that handicap.
Except its not. He is skilled enough that he can pull out any random weapon from his vault and match Saber.
Not to mention that his sword rain thing was something he learned from Enkidu during their fight. Meaning that he was actually able to fight him off long enough to learn and match him.

Only as a conceptual weapon (spear that always hits when thrown). I'm sure in terms of sheer damage, Gungnir would hit much harder and kill someone much deader.

In terms of fighting yes.
We're all lazy fatass who didn't need to hunt for food nor survival.

Nice fanfiction.

>implying
Archer was only commenting on the strength of the concept to begin with, since it broke the Aias, something impossible to do with sheer power. A spear could deal 5 billion damage and still not break the Aias because conceptually the Aias is invincible against thrown projectiles.
Gae Bolg did not shatter it with damage, but with having a superior concept. Damage-wise, the seven fortress walls took their toll and made Gae Bolg only maim Archer a bit.

Nah that was Caliburn
Basically since Gram was the original "sword in the stone" it holds dominion over its successors

He's easily the worst character in the series.

>what if we take Izaya but make it into a huge mary sue that's actually right about everything he says
>AND when he loses it's not because he got BTFO, it's because he was just playing around xD guise he's the best

At least when Izaya gets BTFO he gets BTFO, Gilgamesh is trash because even when he gets BTFO the writer loves to wank his ass since he clearly has a hard on for the guy


It's boring when the author shows such clear favoritism for a character, it shows he's just self inserting or making his own powerfantasy

Gil is shit but this post gave me cancer.

So why did archer died against Heracles in the original series and in Ubw he is stronger ?

kek i'd love to read a series where Izaya and Gilgamesh get mocked by the rest of the cast for being retarded chunnibyos

Well it's not like Narita isn't making Gil look like a retard in SF whenever he opens his mouth.

Heracles is seriously strong and God Hand is a hard counter to UBW. That he managed 6 kills on Herc is phenomenal and a testament to his ability.

Did you actually read his sword fight against Saber? Gil just spammed np effects the entire time and even then all that resulted in was scratching her with an intangible sword.

What does god's hands do ?

But user windows xp is better than windows 10

Immunity to any attacks below A-rank in addition to a stock of auto ressurection and protection from anything that has actually damaged him. It fucks with Archer (and almost anyone else) hard because all his projected stuff goes down a rank unless he overloads it on mana.

That's some nice shitposting

Yeah coupled with his twelve lives it theoretically makes him nigh impossible to kill
But he rarely gets to do much sadly

>xp
Fuck off

Was nasu too pussy to use Muhammad as a hero in fate stay night?

>All that defensive bullshit on his side and hyped through almost the whole fate route as the biggest threat
>Gets killed by bullshit 'lol my shitty untrained projection was strong enough to kill him eight times over all at once'

UBW is C-A++

The protection God Hand gives is for things that killed Heracles.

Archer has infinite swords and several above A rank.

When Archer traces an A++ sword, it drops to B++ and is blocked by God Hand. He has to use the Broken Phantasm technique to rank it up again so he can harm Heracles, and this process takes time and energy.
And it's not like Herc would give him any time to rest or prepare.

His shit is the original everything else derived off. Everything else is a bootleg knock-off or a subset version. It's more appropriately "my shit is the full premium version yours is the shitty trial version that got released later".

NPs equally as old as Sumer like Karna's Spear won't be found in GoB which is why Gil wanted Karna's spear when he first saw it.

I was under the impression he only gets claims to things made by humanity and Karna's spear and Excalibur and such don't fall under that group. He probably doesn't have the Mirror of Amaterasu or whatever Ishtarin's NP bow was for example.

GGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY

>It's not like Gilgamesh can beat other heroes because his weapons are the originals or better. He simply can immediately recognize the weapons of his opponents and use against them the weapons that are most effective against them.
Gilgamesh's weapons are just flat out better, he has the original and stronger verions. While you're right that he's that much more dangerous because of his ability to look at you and say "huh I guess you're weak to poison I'll just pull out the blade of a Hassan who used deadly poison", he never does that in full Archer form because he's too proud.

he has expect for fairy related shit like lancelot's sword or seibas from the lady of the lake also avalon that too and perhaps seiba's spear rhon.

also idian related shit like with karna's spear/armor and and by extension his brother arjuna's nps too.

Fairy shit isn't made by humans and Karna's spear and armor are divine in nature.

B+ is better than A.

Not true though. It was even said in the VN "what you have there is stronger than the original." Gae Bolg is better than the spear it's based off, things can do that, in fact most things actually seem to do so, the only time we see "original = better" is gilgamesh telling us that this is the case.

Well, at least with the original iPhone, you could plug in fucking headphones.

you lack reading comprehension i said he has almost everything expect what i've just listed.

>B+ is better than A
Not for killing Berserker, it isn't.

>must be greater than 50
>80 isn't enough

>B+ is better than A
No it isn't. B+ means it's usually B but it can temporarily act like it's better. A means it's always A.

It's a pretty morbid worldview if you think about it. We'd like to think humanity is progressing for the better, but the idea that the original good old days we better actually advocates regression, postulating that the advances we have made since biblical times are an illusion that has just made humanity weaker in exchange for more comfort.

>Servant powerlevel thread

Solomon GG

>or the original iPhone is better than the iPhone 7
But user, that is true.

>I don't know how grading scales work

So what's this dudes gig?

The VN said that Gae Bolg is even stronger than Gungnir, not that Gae Bolg is based off Gungnir and at any rate I don't imagine Archer fought against the actual user of Gungnir (Woden) so how would he even know?

>Gae Bolg is better than the spear it's based off, things can do that, in fact most things actually seem to do so,
Gilgamesh instantly obliterated Caliburn just by pulling out Gram. Either Gae Bolg is an exception, Cu Culainn is so strong that he's exceeded the original due to his own mastery, or Gae Bolg simply isn't based off Gungnir. I'm not sure why it would be at any rate; Gae Bolg never misses when thrown but Gungnir just never misses period.

First of all the word is "except" not "expect". Second of all, I'm telling you that the reason he doesn't have them is because they weren't made by humans.

King Hassan GG.

>implying numbers matter
Berserker says NO
You can come at him with 2 billion but if's still D rank he will block it with his bare nipples.

A is numerically 50, B+ is numerically 80.

Though yes, as far as anyone can guess the letter is the key part for some things, for... reasons that were never explained.

Grand Caster

As of right now he is the strongest Servant in the Nasuverse and the only people that are close to his level are King Hassan and Merlin

Solomon is a Grand Servant but he's not necessarily the strongest of the Grands. Gudako is the strongest servant.

Did they finally make Merlin a servant? Or is he still just off doing whatever he feels like?

Caster Solomon alone isn't necessarily the strongest of the normal servants
We just haven't really seen how strong other Grands are. We know that Grand Caster Candidates Merlin and Caster!Gilgamesh are also batshit insane and Grand Assassin King Hassan is batshit even when he's a normal servant.

It's not a matter of numerical values but of rank. Gae Bolg is a fucking autokill on heartstab and it won't even do shit to Berserker unless Lancer buffs it up with his runes. And then he has to do it 12 fucking times in a row. Funny thing is Lancer is one of the lucky ones who actually stands a chance among the Servants in F/SN. Caster can only pull it off like 3 times and the Assassins are straight up fucked despite Koujirou fucking with space and True Assassin pulling the conceptual heart crushing bullshit.

He technically still not a Servant since he is still fucking around in Avalon and is not dead.

He is in the next Gacha in the game so something is going to happen.

He's in!

>Funny thing is Lancer is one of the lucky ones who actually stands a chance among the Servants in F/SN
God Hand used to make you immune to anything that killed you already so in the original one Gae Bolg would work once and only once.

Why can't this shit be translated already.

Because it is long as shit.

Nasu did not fuck around with the writing

>Gilgamesh instantly obliterated Caliburn just by pulling out Gram

Dramatic flair, every time the weapons go along they accumulate more power.

Also EMIYA just needs to see it to be able to analyse it that's kinda his thing and he clearly has at some point. Consider he's done a fucking lot in his time, you never know what shit he's had to clean up.

>Your lance is stronger than the original Gungir

are his exact words.

>Dramatic flair, every time the weapons go along they accumulate more power.
Bullshit where the fuck are you pulling this out of?

>are his exact words.
You see how he doesn't say Gungnir is the original of Gae Bolg but just that it's stronger than even the original Gungnir?

He's in and I hear he's taken over Waver as best caster in the game now.

Runes son. And it was Nasu himself who said that Lancer actually had a chance despite how uphill a fight it is.

He better

Waver needs a break

>ABle to add the concept of death to a completely immortal being while not even in Grand form.
True best.

The mods going apeshit on some of the threads, what's happening?

Nah, Waver is best offense support while Merlin is best defense.

The chance is probably multikilling rather than using Gae Bolg several times in a row. A super-critical thrown bolg directly into the heart that gets past all his defenses, for example.

Why the fuck would he decide to compare it to a random spear? Because it's descended from Gungir and Gae Assail.

And name me one time we've seen an original that was actually better than the shit that came after it in terms of hard parameters and actual feats (not just casual one offs)

While it is conceptually phenomenal, I wish people didn't overblow it so much. He rendered Tiamat mortal, Gilgamesh was still the one to kill her.
King Hassan wasn't going to solo Tiamat on his lonesome.

Gram defeats Caliburn easily as an A++ NP "greatest mystic sword" that equals the "greatest holy sword" (Excalibur).
True Caladbolg is also A++ whereas Excalibur Galatine is only A+.

Rendering Tiamat mortal is a huge deal in and of itself though. King Hassan would be able to kill Death itself if he could get into a fight.

>hard parameters and actual feats
Boy I don't even remember any direct descendants we've seen both sides of so I can't help you there. Gram defeats Caliburn and is supposedly the equal of Excalibur.

>why the fuck would he decide to compare it to a random spear
Gungnir isn't a random spear. It's pretty much the highest level of spear in mythology, it'd be like comparing a sword to Excalibur or Durandal.

>Not Grand Saber
>Infinite mana
>Spiked stats
>Avalon, Excalibur, and Rhongomyniad
>Can summon the entirety of the round table, not shitty mindless clones, that all have the power of the original

I really don't see how anybody could beat her. Especially with Gawain, Lancelot, Gallahad, Bedivere, and Tristan. And a few other less memorable but still notable top-tier knights behind her like Gareth.

>God Hand is a hard counter to UBW
Other way around. UBW is remarkable for being one of the only things that could potentially defeat God Hand.

>Heracles is seriously strong and God Hand is a hard counter to UBW
>I never read the VN

King Hassan's true strength lie's in the fact that he can basically kill the unkillable rendering all abilities or np null and void.
Also he's a lot cooler than Gil Being a Hassan of course.

>bullshit
You guys forgot about UBW's rank down already? We just went over this.
Archer needs, not may choose to but absolutely requires using Broken Phantasm to hurt Heracles at all.

He died in the first route after killing Berserker six (or was it seven?) times without support from his Master while having to hold back to avoid killing Illya. Nothing changed across the routes for either of them. Ignore complete retards like
since they never looked at the source material.

>Never liked Hassans
>Camelot happens
wtf I love Hassan now

Not sure if trolling or actually a retarded secondary that only watched UBW. Because if you're not trolling, you clearly never read Fate.

...

Not an argument. I guess you really did forget that UBW applies a universal rank-down to traced equipment.
Caliburn is a special exception, by the by, for being in Saber's presence.

>Gungnir isn't a random spear. It's pretty much the highest level of spear in mythology, it'd be like comparing a sword to Excalibur or Durandal.

Or you know, the fact that both spears (Gungnir and Gae Bulg) are incredibly similar and one appeared after the other (or at least as far as can be believed as the norse oral tradition is certainly very old, probably considerably older than the 8th century) + obviously Cu being son of Lugh (and might also actually be Lugh but that's a different story entirely) means that he'll take some influence from him and as such Gae Assail.

Also Gram has no official parameters, and it's title is... I think the "Sun Sword"

That being said Gungnir has a stronger ability than Gae Bolg. Gungnir always hits no matter what, there's no preperation needed. Gae Bolg in the legends had this huge ritual to activate.

Grand Order really makes you appreciate all the Servants as it gave almost all of them memorable moments/personalities.

This thread
>Why is Herk shit?
>He was such a bitch that he lost 4v1 to a Servant with the perfectly ability to chunk his lives, King Arthur, a genius magus, and an autistic ginger that pulled off what was stated to be a miracle
>He was such a bitch that he lost to Gilgamesh when he was actually putting his back into it and used one of his main trump cards
>He was such a bitch that it only took Saber Alter, the Shadow, and Hassan working together just to slow him down.

It's like if a character loses, they're shit. Doesn't matter who they lost to.

No, I remembered how everything works since I actually read the VN. You're obviously right about the rank-down. You're wrong about literally everything else. Nice job reading the wiki.

Yeah but Gae Bulg did that + it would fuck you UP once it did pierce you. Gungnir wasn't guranteed to do that (and indeed if we look at the history, odds are hitting wouldn't guarantee piercing at all against people in armour, if anything odds were firmly against you, which is why later tales often trade hit for "fuck you up" )

Servant Odysseus when?

Also don't forget that Herc was primarily protecting Illya, not fighting goldie. If he was I reckon he'd have fucked goldie up.