What do you think of the Confederates?

Were they the good guys to you or the bad guys? Should the South had won the war?

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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conclusion_of_the_American_Civil_War
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I'm sure that there won't be any biased answers here

>lose a war
>become the bads goys

If South had won, America would never have become as powerful as it is today

I really wanna know the opinions here. Plus everyone has bias.

>literally going to be minority white in a couple years
>on track to be 0.5% white by 2060
>least we ruled da worl once little Tyrone Hernandez Wu, we wuz kangz!

My favorite Civil War artifact.

What else do you think would've happened if the South won the war?

"Had this foundation secession principle of the system then been generally acknowledged — had no military force been called out to prevent the exercise of this right of withdrawal on the part of the seceding States — had no war been waged against Georgia and the other States, for their assertion and maintenance of this right, had not this primary law of our entire system of Government been violated in the war so waged, I cannot permit myself to entertain the shadow of a doubt, that the whole controversy, between the States would, at no distant day, have been satisfactorily and harmoniously adjusted, under the peaceful and beneficent operation of this very law itself. Just as all perturbations and irregularities are adjusted in the solar system, by the simple law of gravitation, from which alone — it sprung in the beginning, and on which alone its continuance, with its wonderfully harmonious workings, depends!" Alexander Stephens

Good guys. Fought for the state's rights our Founding Fathers (important ones were mainly Southern) gave us that the North took away; fought for honor, tradition, family, and God. Our generals were by far the best (Fuck Longstreet), and our army wasn't filled with immigrant Irish and Germans.

While slavery IS morally wrong, the South was legally justified in secession regardless.

They lost, but they were honorable men

Good. The US has constantly backed the wrong side in every conflict except the Cold War.

I'd rather it survive as a middling state then be a tottering giant preparing to crush it's citizenry under it's own worthless weight.

>History of humanity: the post

I respect the ballsyness of saying "fuck you I quit" but I think the common argument of States' rights is just a cop out for their real reasoning. Union did messed up shit too though.
Not many people are told in History class that the abolitionists didn't care about abolishing slavery because it was bad, it was an power dispute. Pro and anti slavery people were killing each other before the Civil War even started. They were in the West throwing temper tantrums with each other over who got to claim what.

((They)) ran the slave ships
((They)) tried to get Europe to help the South
((They)) opposed Lincoln through the banks.
Lincoln opposed ((Them)) with debt free money.
As did JFK, Lincoln got taken out.

This is why the Irish defected to Mexico in the Mexican American war

It's hard to say, but what is certain is that the South would have a significantly stronger culture and state identity (North Carolinian instead of American). We wouldn't be having a Mexican immigration problem.

Maybe US/CSA don't join WWII? I don't know, but interesting to think about.

What do you think the South's demographics would be like if it had won? A friend of mine says it would be similar to the Dominican Republic because the slaves would breed so much but I'm not sure if he's right.

>no mexican problem.
user, tell me you’re joking. The reds wanted to attack and annex ALL OF MEXICO.

This.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin
The Republicans and Lincoln were the part of free regular men, working hard and honestly.

If the south won, the USA would end up like Haiti. In their unchecked greed, the Slave owning whites would breed blacks through the roof and destroy the country.

Can't imagine what kind of shithole the South would have become if they had.
>1/5 the North's free population
>1/20 the industrial capacity
They probably would have lost to their own slaves eventually.

I know this guy and he's kind of a moron. He;s in his 30s, works at KFC. and is angry at Abraham Lincoln for freeing the slaves. He says if slavery was still legal he wouldn't have to work because the slaves would do it for him and that there wouldn't be much crime. What would you say to him?

Absolute unadulterated degeneracy.

Back then, when traveling state to state would take days, the north and south were effectively different countries. The north basically just invaded the south, then that cancerous SJW Aberham Lincoln made them free their slaves. The south were the victims

No, but that's looking at in the timeline where they didn't. Now, I do believe in states rights over the federal government. Nullification should be an amendment in my opinion and would have avoided a lot of shit in the civil war, and despite all you racisist larpers, I don't think slavery was going to last that long regardless of the result of said war. States rights have all but died since with the exception of legalized weed, which who truly is denying the federal government there? Yeah it breaks federal law but what would you expect to happen if one agency cracked down anywhere in Colorado, Washington, etc? Entire country outrage. It's the only reason legalization accross the board is probably going to happen. Funny thing is, it will only be done state by state, so I guess the confederacy has that going for them, which is nice.

They were alright. It’s a shame the south didn’t win, I’d have like to see how that one turned out.

DO IT AGAIN GENERAL SHERMAN.

Literally every war that has been fought labeled the losers as the bad guy. Dumbass.

Lincoln was a fucktard. He fucked the whole thing up. Secession never would have happened if someone else had been elected. He was stubborn, thought the South was bluffing just to gain concessions from the North. When he was shown to be wrong, he started the bloodiest war in American history basically because he was a hard-ass who refused to listen. Then he had to result to total warfare (against people he claimed were his countrymen) and war crimes in order to win. What an ass-clown.

There's already a country like what the south could have been had they won. It's called Brazil.

Not the Vietnam war.

this

Yeah but they are taught about the shit storm treatment of the south that was "reconstruction" if that's what you'd call it

How did Lincoln fuck the whole thing up?

He annihilated the south, ended slavery, completed the USA's transition to capitalism and paved the way for it becoming an industrialized, global superpower. It sounds like a decisive victory to me.

The whole thing was really about economics. Lincoln was a crony capitalist; lawyer for railroads who were the biggest corporations of the time. Northern bankers and industrialists wanted to rule the entire continent. Indians and Southerners stood in their way so they committed genocide against them.

>Union crushes southern opposition, strengthening and further centralizing the North and the merchant bankers
>Union (((frees))) slaves but locks them up and uses them as slave labour
>13th Amendment
>Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime
>North in essence nationalizes slavery by making it a government run business via convict labour
>North is seen as good guys
>Somehow they are the good guys
>mfw

>Indians and Southerners stood in their way so they committed genocide against them.
Welcome to dialectical materialism.

Most of them weren't bad guys, but them winning the war probably wouldn't have been that great either.

>wanted less federal power
>wanted to literally own people even though it keeps the economy consistently depressed
>basically ancaps

I love their aesthetic and I'm Dixie myself. They had some good military leaders but fuck'em for having retarded politics and even more retarded economics.

1. All of that could have been accomplished without war. 2. It was a victory if you consider having Wall Street run the entire world a victory. It was the first step towards American (Wall Street) imperialism.

If they didn't form their own union via everyone who seceded than they would have remained seperate states with an agreement much like the EU only on a far more serious scale amongst the parties and probably like we have never seen before, unless of course the confederacy was to become the very thing they left (a union of states agreeing to be recognized together and follow common law stretched across all recognized parties participating) only to allow the power to it's participants to determine laws of "their own land" that would inevitably by the 20th century be just as influenced by the population as is opinion today. Quite possibly, breaking up into sections claiming independence like a modern day Europe minus Saeed and sanji bombing or caring or knifing anyone on the reg. or I'm wrong. Get fucked, you actually read a big ass post like this on Sup Forums, you should kill yourself.

North joins the axis, South joins the allies. If either join.

That is, if WW1 doesn't change anything. Most likely in that case, It is still likely that the North teams up with Germany and the South with Britian/France.

>He annihilated the south
You don't 'annihilate' people you believe to be your countrymen.
You don't destroy their industry, rip up their train tracks, and burn down their farm fields.

They were right for all the wrong reasons

They did have retarded politics and economics, but it was a system they inherited from Britain, France, and the Netherlands, not one they came up with themselves. Those assholes are the ones who brought slavery to the Americas.

They literally became a shithole once the south started punishing them. I swear you guys act like if they did win slavery and racism would still be alive to the degree it was in the slavery days, but it wouldn't have been by the time the 20th century rolled around. And one things for sure, america wouldn't have been there to bail anyone out of ww1 or 2 more importantly if they had. So maybe you jew hating faggots can only blame the confederacy for the inevitable fall of the shitstorms in Europe. I mean seriously, if the south won, would this side of the hemisphere really matter during world war 2? I honestly am not sure

EXACTLY. Lincoln claimed the South never left the Union, yet he treated them as a hostile nation. Proving that it wasn't really about freeing the slaves or preserving the way things had been; it was about creating a new order of industrial rule over the North American continent.

>1. All of that could have been accomplished without war.
No it couldn't, revolution is a historical necessity and the US civil war was THE bourgeois revolution of America. Southern aristocrats weren't just going to sit on their hands and let the bourgeoisie destroy the economic structure that was the source of their power. Eventually there was going to come a time when someone was going to have to give and no one would want to do it. Either the bourgeoisie could prevail and bring the USA into the 20th century or it would join the other undeveloped nations in getting raped by industrialized imperialist Europeans.

>2. It was a victory if you consider having Wall Street run the entire world a victory. It was the first step towards American (Wall Street) imperialism.
It's certainly a victory for Lincoln and the bourgeoisie. And in the grand scheme of things it's a necessary step towards communism too.

Both sides faced the ultimate existential question that national leaders never want to answer: what do you value more, your nation's principle's or its existence? Lincoln chose the latter, suspending habeus corpus and placing Maryland under martial law all to get the Union back together. The rebs chose their principles, resisting their own new government if it dared to exhibit more authority than allowed, and the states' rights upon which their country was founded was ironically their downfall. The crippling lack of a centralized war effort was too much to bear when so many other factors already stood against them.
I respect the Confederacy for their unwavering loyalty to their cause even to their own detriment, but they were foolish to think that a Confederation was a means as well as an end, that they could win while pulling punches against a foe that only pulls out stops.

The other good thing about the south?
They planned on invading and colonizing the Latin American nations, starting with Mexico. Think of how much better the western hemisphere would be without Mexico ruining everything for everyone.

There are no "fellow countrymen", that is an absolute spook. There are people of your class and there are the rest. And you absolutely destroy your class-enemies.

>lets be unindustrialized and be raped by european great powers, yay!

You know, I can't really disagree with that. It was the final triumph of Hamiltonian big government/industrialization over Jeffersonian limited government agrarian society.

How long would slavery had lasted if the South had won?

Well said.

I'm not sure why that necessarily follows, either the unindustrialized part or the raping part

Slavery never happened.

It doesn't matter. The Civil War happened because Lincoln was elected with a majority faction while an entire region opposed him.

And the same thing will happen again when whites can no longer elect a Nationalist.

Look at how the USA treats Latin America.They're able to do that precisely because the US is an industrial powerhouse while other American countries are not.

That's how Europe would have treated the USA if it didn't industrialize. At best the USA would have gotten carved up like Austria which also had a giant agrarian tumor attached to it hampering progress called Hungary.

They would have made USA weak by making states more stronger.

You sound like a liberal defending the "fagistence" against trump. Truth is any pussy who can't deal with the concept of an elected leader they disagree with politically holding office is a pussy who needs to accept the long dick of the opposition (which ever party it may be) Especially if we are talking Lincoln then we are talking a president that you,as a southerner in the 1800s, didn't know won the election until weeks after they already won. Truth is it wasn't Lincoln's fault, people were probably going to try and bail either way because they certainly weren't being moved by the White House or congresses politicians when they literally only heard from their state ones and fucking had a media that was printing papers days (or some shit) after they heard news from elsewhere (literally anywhere but locally), and that came in by horse back. Most of the population probably had no fuckin clue what was even going on yet blindly agreed to join the ranks as "soldiers" just because some think serving a class of people that believe they are superior to everyone else due to money and for the most part naturally born status (in the south most plantations were inherited.) blame Lincoln all you want, but we as a people and the politicians involved at the time are truly to blame. Modern political issues prove this, why hasn't the Catalonian issue blown into a full swat team consistantly blowing people down or a full on resistant opposition war? Because info travels and is exchanged very differently than it was back then and the people in power act accordingly knowing what info is so quickly exposed. Imagine if it was happening back then, Spain would already be in a civil war too despite who is currently leading the country because the politicians and people would act differently knowing and distributing knowledge at that level compared to today's.

Californian, we were taught they were the bad guys obviously. I have mixed feelings about the war.

Ok so the south takes mexico.....big deal? I mean most of the drugs and shit being shipped in comes from South America anyway. We blame mexico for all of it because it's their shit security that's failing us being fucked by it. But cartels might as well consider themselves independent companies with no country loyalty. They ship and sell people, guns, drugs, etc, with no regard if whatever country they are stationed out of and no real care for what it looks like as long as it doesn't look like them solely. Mexico is a shit storm because of cartels operating out of mexico but literally moving goods from south of mexicos border into Mexico and then into our fucking country. South takes mexico, that whole shit storm that is mexico becomes South Africa to England. A lost, shitty, shit storm of a cause, and gets abandoned. Then what?? The south suffers from investing in it. Sure they probably would still have Texas, but bullshit on them taking and keeping mexico. Fuckin bullshit.

Fair enough. We didn't win that won for sure, but how often do you hear Vietnam doing anything newsworthy these days? Zero. Yet our president takes a shit and it's all over world wide media. I'd say we have the high ground in the end

Bunch of stupid inbred FAGGOTS that fucking died of AIDS and couldn't fight for SHIT.

How often would you have heard of Vietnam in the news before the war compared to how often America had been in the news?

Yeah, the flow of information definitely had an impact on how things went down. For instance, during the election advisers and moderate southerners begged Lincoln repeatedly to reassure the South of his intentions toward slavery, but he stubbornly refused to do it, saying that he had already said what he needed to say. In the absence of his reassurances, people's imaginations filled in the blanks and hardline anti-Lincoln southerners were able to use his silence as "evidence" that he was planning on ending slavery.
There were also genuine concerns about a repeat of the Haiti slave revolt happening in the South. Hardline anti-slavery forces in the Republican Party did little to help by holding up John Brown as a martyr, who died trying to incite a slave rebellion. People were afraid for their lives and Lincoln failed to communicate his intentions effectively. A failure of communication was really one of the key causes of the war.
PS I'm not a liberal so fuck off with that shit

Fun fact 1:

The CSA government was never taken over or deposed, rather they fled. On paper it still exists.

Fun fact 2:
Reconstruction was a military occupation (except for Tennessee psssh). Southerners didn't vote to be re-admitted.

So, the CSA is under current federal occupation and still exists. Texans still have that mentality of 'I am a Texan first' instead of I am an American.

This would have been a good thing, and is in fact the single best argument in favor of the Confederate cause. American hegemony has been an unmitigated disaster for the American people. Union victory centralized power in the hands of a government that would, in time, use that power to begin systematically ethnically cleansing its own people via mass immigration. To say nothing of how it used Blacks as political cudgels against the majority. Europe is in large part following their suicidal immigration policies because their treasonous governments are propped up by the American military.

Neither the American government nor its European vassal states would be able to get away with this if the South had prevented the U.S. from taking its first step to world hegemony.

>Texans still have that mentality of 'I am a Texan first' instead of I am an American.
Texans have been completely drowned out by a tidal wave of humanity in the last ten years. Their state culture essentially ceased to exist shortly after the fracking boom really got rolling. A solid majority of license plates in every metro area are from other states, more than half the people in the state are minorities, and the smaller towns and rural areas have been hallowed out of their human capital by a long process of brain drain. Texas, as Texas, is dead.

This.

>wanted niggers over efficient industry and machinery
>started the bloodiest war in American history
>sole reason why niggers are here in the first place
>only man who would've sent them back to Africa got shot by a butthurt southerner

Way to go, you inept hicks.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conclusion_of_the_American_Civil_War

...

I don't buy the idea that the civil war was about power and not about slavery at the time, but in retrospect we can say that it's essence was about confederation versus federation and I support that fight and, based on that, I wish they would have won. Reconstruction fundamentally changed America for the worse.

There's a direct relationship between distance and enforcement of rules. There's a natural hierarchy of rules and rulemakers and I strongly believe that Anarchism and Right Libertarianism are the only two political philosophies that respect that natural hierarchy. Furthermore, the only way that the US government can be consistent with this natural order and not be dramatically changed is to take the form of a confederacy and strive for right libertarianism; anarchy is deeply flawed and inconsistent with the idea of the US. (Sidenote, I do think it's interesting that social issues can divide anarchists and neoconfederates so completely, I think they have a lot of common ground in the grand scheme of things)

The hierarchy is simple: you have personal laws and you follow them or punish yourself by being upset for breaking them. This law takes precedence over family/household law and family/household values, as you cannot escape personal punishment. Next is church, then local town, then county, then state, then federal law. The higher you go the less immediate the enforcement is, and naturally, the less reasonable it is for this institution to attempt to encroach on your life and enforce sanctions and rules. Take the example of smoking weed, if your household doesn't care and you don't care, basically nothing can stop you from smoking pot in your house. Any legal system that does not acknowledge or appreciate this limitation is bound to make rules that go unenforced. Every upper level is wholly subservient to the level below it.

Confederation is an organization scheme compatible with this natural order, and that's why I support it.

Yes they should have won,the only part of the US that had any form of european heritage and ofbcourse the mongrel niggers turned on them.
The United Confederate States would have been great,but now the US is a zero % white inbred country....damn thats sad.

>What do you think of the Confederates

I like them. Being Hungarian, I have sympathy for lost causes and we also had our civil war not long before they did. And besides, I met a number of Texans and Southerners in Budapest (okay, I'm not sure how Southern the Texans are) and they are all rather pleasant and honest people, very far from the incestuous Redneck stereotype.

Confederate-Hungarian friendship when?

pretty sure that was his point