Can we have a honest and productive discussion about the pros and cons of MGTOW?

I'm not talking about hating women or staying celibate so long that you become duracel, just not getting in long-term relationships, not moving in together with a woman and not getting married.

Other urls found in this thread:

surrogacymexico.com/
patch.com/florida/brandon/disabled-florida-veteran-chooses-jail-over-paying-alimony-0
youtube.com/watch?v=wse_hgca220
youtube.com/watch?v=LM4IJvIAJ4A
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I'd do all that stuff with a woman who has a separate bank account at all times.

i.e. I do not pay her way like a child

the most important down side is that you let your family bloodline die out
you wont be able to continue your family traditions because you didnt tell your kids about them because you didnt have them
this is more important if you are the only kid in your family and even more so if you are the only son
>inb4 muh current time isnt good for raising kids
if you want to be a defeatist cunt then why dont you just off yourself

That's why the moslem scum will prevail.
If your marriage is this expensive for you either you're a broke fuck or your woman is a materialistic roachie

Point for the enemy team. We need families, get it?

It's easy to hate women. They are basically men with little or no accountability, saved by virtues of grace and kindness (if they're lucky enough to have it). Women have no conceptual understanding of sportsmanship or fairness, since their idea of fairness is often used to elevate their own position or to reduce the position of another, yet rarely their own. You need to focus on not wasting time with women who fail to see this trend among themselves. Those that do, and don't like the state of women, are worth casual conversation at the least all others can be sent back to Arby's.

LOL ARE U A VIRGIN?
JUST MARRY THE PERFECT UNICORN AND AL UR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED
JUST BE URSELF BRAH

>implying that would be a net win for humanity
jej m8 the whole planet will be inbred and stuck in the dark ages until the oil dries up.

I'm sort of excited

Artificial wombs will make women obsolete.

>implying it won't be sold exclusively to lesbians and jews

I will never understand why people pay so much attention to old, ugly, disgusting roasties. What's the benefit? What's in it for you?

>then why dont you just off yourself

The most intellectually dishonest response to antinatalism.

Pros: modern women are dogshit
Cons: a cult isn’t the answer

Any non-semite dystopia is somewhat acceptable

>what is supply and demand
>what are black markets
>what is medical tourism

being an antinatalist means there's something wrong with you on the most fundamental level, seeing how you're going against the grain even when it comes to the most basic of instincts.

You're either a fag or a jew desu

Pros:
Jack off to anime whenever.
All of your money can be spent on drugs and alcohol.
You can stay up late playing video games.
Never have to leave moms house.
Able to have a large collection of super hero dolls and comics.

Cons
You'll never have the satisfaction of raising a child. (Unless you kidnap one)
No bageena to cum in. (Unless prostitute)
Be scolded for eating tenders when you go out to eat.

yeah look how great it's going for sexbots.

The secret sauce:
>in your 20's go to school/work build your business
>don't worry about girls. Built your business
>hangout and hook up as required but no gf
>if she is acting like a gf, texting you all day, and worried about what you are doing, fire her ass. No gf.
>around 28 or so +/- start dating
>find a girl half your age +7 years, women are starting to hit the wall by 28 and will be crazy, manipulative, and unreliable
>every date is an interview for the position of wife
>if she is the least bit problematic, jettison her ass
>date for at least a year
>DO NOT MOVE IN TOGETHER
>if she is gtg after a year or two then marry her
>have kids around 28-30, no latter than 32, and 34+ is absolute red zone for spergs
Profit?

pros:
>more free time
>more money
>can fuck around as much as I want
cons:
>no offspring thus ultimatley failing your only purpose as a living organism
>denying human nature

>doesnt care about his family
>tries to justify it by calling it antinatalism
>flag
really boggles the goggles

> no offspring
Not true any longer, with surrogacy options.

surrogacymexico.com/

Sure, there is plenty wrong with me. But also, every time you bring out the "why don't you kill yourself then?" line, you automatically lose the argument. It's on a lower tier compared to even shit like "ur just a bitter virgin lmao".

Antinatalists don't kill themselves because the hurdle of overcoming the pain of death is a powerful obstacle. We are biological machines created to avoid dangerous situations. We can't just fry our hands with a campfire, we won't jump off a building because we're afraid of the fall... If suicide was that easy, we wouldn't have people wanting to die rather than just doing it. People don't quit jobs they hate, if they feel the cost of doing so is too high (lose money, lose place to live, can't support yourself anymore, no other jobs available). Likewise, people don't kill themselves, even if they are tired of living, if they feel it will be too costly a venture (physical pain, risk of failure and adverse consequences if discovered/resuscitated, damage to loved ones, etc.) Also, not all antinatalists are suicidal. For me antinatalism is only about preventing births and minimizing suffering, not suicide.

>Profit?

For the woman, yes.

>your only purpose as a living organism

If all people thought like you, we would still be sitting in trees naked and throwing shit at each other.

I care about the living members of my family.

Wait are we talking
- No marriage?
or
- No dating?

But it's okay when gays do it. They are being strong and brave. It's tragic that they can't have gay butt babies.

Not us regular guys though, we just need to fuck off and die because we are just useless cattle who won't pay for some horrible woman to ruin our lives.

Aka we can't win so who cares.

>He thinks his money is safe in a separate bank account during a divorce

>Til death do us part

I'd just kill her and collect MY* life insurance since we are one human under the law.

>>have kids around 28-30, no latter than 32, and 34+ is absolute red zone for spergs
you should have kids as early as you can
the longer you wait the bigger the chances of your kid having down syndrome
>literally defending yourself and stating reasons why you wont sudoku
this is just another reason to sudoku

>muh people dont quit their jobs if they hate it
i could say the same with women and children
people still want to continue their bloodline and pass something onto their kids even if it will be difficult

there is nothing wrong with surrogacy
It IS your only purpose as an organism retard. Men only invent things and advance culture to make themselves more attractive to women so they can procreate. I thought this rethoric is what you mgtows were all about.
If you're an Isaac Newton type motherfucker who single handedly advances humanity in giant steps, then you have an excuse for not having children. But since 99.99% of us are not, we do not get to go down that narcissistic little hole.

forgot my pic

Oh, I thought you wanted to have a real discussion about this, not just hurl insults. My bad.

>It IS your only purpose as an organism retard

You forget that there is the matter of procreation at the individual level versus procreation at the species level. There are many species where organisms are born that are not intended to ever directly procreate, but they support the rest of the community to allow the species to continue. A prime example of this would be insect colonies, such as bees. And even in species where all individuals have the potential to mate, they still may serve the species in some capacity well beyond their ability to procreate has passed. "I must make a baby" is nigger/ape/amoeba-tier thinking.

Just don't settle. Build yourself up as a person and keep your options open. Know a guy who waited until 39 then married a traditional 18 year old who wanted to stay at home & have kids. It got even better because since the kids got older she turned a photography hobby in a nice run from home business.
2 kids, 2 businesses, 2 nice homes, 2 flash cars, 2 happy people.

TINY BRAIN
Marrying a non-traditional woman ready to settle down with a nice guy

NORMAL BRAIN FUNCTION
Joining MGTOW

HIGH DENSITY BRAIN FUNCTION
Marrying a traditional virgin

MAXIMUM PRE-ASCENDANT BRAIN DENSITY
Marrying your roommate in gay marriage and fuck sluts

LOW POWER ASCENDANCY ACHIEVED
Create a tulpa of your ideal woman

RAPIDLY EXPANDING ASCENDANT
Create a tulpa of your ideal woman and impose her psychic gestalt on a virgin 16-year-old to create your perfect wife

N-DIMENSIONAL BRAIN POWER ACHIEVED
You and your roommate bro for life create each his own tulpa and have the tulpa materialize and have a foursome orgy marriage

>Being married
ManDyingInBedWithFamily.jpg
>Being single
ManDyingInBedWithSiliconDolls.jpg

>exposing holes in your logic
>add "commit sudoku"
>"Oh, I thought you wanted to have a real discussion about this, not just hurl insults. My bad.
"
i tought you wanted to have a real discussion about this. my bad

>the most important down side is that you let your family bloodline die out
>implying a cunt can't take your kids and convince them to hate you and change their names effectively achieving the same result but you still have to pay alimony until you die

You can donate sperm, some dude has like 200 kids because of that

Creating a family and passing down knowledge from mother to daughter
You wouldn't believe the brain drain feminism has had on females in the West

You're not an insect, and you are an ape, wether you like it or not.
Also I knew you would answer this way, that's why I said
>If you're an Isaac Newton type motherfucker who single handedly advances humanity in giant steps, then you have an excuse for not having children.
So my little perkele, what have you done for the benefit of humanity, that cost you so much time and energy you couldn't invest it in having offspring. I certanly hope it wasn't just shitposting and masturbating to anime, because giving into your vices out of pure narcisissm is definitely not serving the species in any way shape or form. (You know what WORKER ants do all day right?)

> be married
> wife wants to “find herself”
> die in jail

patch.com/florida/brandon/disabled-florida-veteran-chooses-jail-over-paying-alimony-0

What if you're the only child? It becomes immoral not to start a family.

marriage is a prison you build, it would be dumb to not put in a escape tunnel for yourself

>buy residency in south america
>only 25k deposit for a few countries
>stash money there, or in crypto
>have a ok day job
>get married, have kids
>DO NOT TELL THEM ABOUT FOREIGN MONEY OR CRYPTO
>if she divorces, move to south america
>live off your secret stash, while she cries about alimony, child support and finding a beta provider

prepare for the worst and hope for the best, if things do work out you have a pleasant surprise college/retirement fund

So then what the fuck do you propose the average guy should do?

Women do not fucking want average guys, they would watch all of them burn to death before they settled down for any of them pre-wall. And yes, when those guys get older and the women hit the wall and get desperate they do give those women absolute hell, because that's what those women have given them for years and it's what they deserve after all those years of being absolute pieces of shit, men are very much aware of the game that is being played at that point. These men may not be 10s but they deserve better than 400 pound Bertha who is hooked on bath salts and has no fucking teeth.

So what are they to do? Right now their answer is nothing, what is your fucking idea? Give them even more shit for something they can't fix? What the fuck is that going to do? Make you feel better? Fucking cunt.

If you say just b urself or some other shallow stupid shit I will find you and burn your house down.

The kebab are winning because their entire culture is MGTOW on Steroids: women in islam aren't worth shit, less than shit, you can have 4 of them plus concubines and the kids always belong to the father no matter what the fuck happens. There's no alimony, no responsibility, you can even kill your kids for disobeying (aka: "dishonoring") you and the law will be in your favor.

MGTOW basically says that if men get nothing from modern society then they might as well do nothing for modern society either, simple as that.

I don't have to sacrifice jack shit for this piece of crap planet.

I must be married to the state, because the state takes most of my money.

>>>r/incels

Actually getting married pretty much doubles your income

I now rent out the house I bought before I got married and live a few blocks closer to the beach with my wife

If you can't find a good woman, might as well stay alone. I couldn't imagine settling for a woman just for the sake of having kids or appearances or whatever then the cunt leaves and screws up your whole life in the court system. I'm not MGTOW, but I'm not going to knock up a woman or marry just because it's what you're supposed to do which is what I feel like a lot of men do.

There's something about fetish videos that creeps me the fuck out, even if they're completely sfw

You didn't expose any holes. You asked me "why don't you just kys then?" and I answered. Rest of your post is "muh this and sudoku that".

>what have you done for the benefit of humanity
>serving the species

Yes, me not having kids is a net benefit for humanity. First of all, I have heritable mental illnesses like a few personality disorders and such. Secondly, there's already over 7 billion people on this planet and when my kids would be adults, there will be 8,5 billion people. That's billions too many.

Also, I'm a human so I'm a step above other animals, including apes.

And doubles the expenses. Genius!

The problem is most guys date the wrong girls at the wrong time. Most guys are thirsty that they chase these girls around. Have your shit together, and date younger women. Then train these girls to act according to your desires.

Exactly this.

Men work and fight and die to support society, but mostly to support their family. When society allows your family to opt out of you, is it a surprise if you opt out of having a family and opt out of society? And with no family to support, why work, fight and die?

>Marrying your roommate in gay marriage and fuck sluts
holy shit
doesn't that make you immune from common law shit and women saying "well, it was implied"

Buy physical gold and keep said gold in a secure and secret location.

You can take an uggo/fatty if moral fibre is so important to you.
My plan B is to have kids without marrying. Just spend half my time with them and do my best to be a good dad (and best of all not pay any money to an ex-wife). I think that's a bretty good option all things considered.
Although my parents divorced, so I might be biased.

Being an only son in my family and having an amazing traditional gf I find this idea of yours retarded

youtube.com/watch?v=wse_hgca220

Your kids are gonna be fucked up.
It will take generations to undo the damage you will inflict on them.

Have fun being hated by your own flesh and blood.

Marry someone who makes the same amount of money

jew

And risk my ass end up it jail for some cunt? Nah thank you.
Money transaction leave a trail.
Sure you can buy physical good but what do you when they ask
>Where exactly X amount of money went?

You not having kids seems like a responsible thing to do then, what with all the crippling heritable mental illnesses you seem to have. So thanks from the rest of us for taking yourself out of the gene pool.

Just seems like the OP should really have been written differently then.
>Can we have a honest and productive discussion about the pros and cons of MGTOW for mentaly ill people with heritable diseases?

Seems like your being dishonest you know?

Lol, it's this mentality that's going to protect rich ppl's consciences when ppl are starving in the streets.

I can see it now: "Get a job, you childish homeless filth!" Overnight, homeless person dragged off to the morgue. Rich person doesn't know or care. Moves on with his life. One less homeless person to claw at the back of his mind on his way to work. "Hey, maybe we could pass a local ordinance against 'loitering' so we can push loiterers out of our peripheral vision."

I just don't like being around people. That's why I'm talking to you faggots

If you wanted to destroy a race without killing it yourself, you would…

- Promote race mixing
- Promote homosexuality
- Promote the irrelevance of the family
- Promote feminism and divorce
- Promote abortion rights
- Teach them that race does not exist
- Teach them to feel guilty and ashamed of their heritage
- Push for mass immigration into their lands
- Call them racists when they defend themselves

>"being single" guy has a clearly-visible wedding ring on

Wait until you're both at least 35 and have all of your shit together before even considering who you will marry.

Yes, this means it might be too late to have kids, but fuck-all difference it makes if you destroy their lives after they are born by marrying some soulless cunt?

you cant continue your family traditions by donating sperm you dense retard, the point is not JUST having kids
and if you cant teach your wife to behave herself after you've been married atleast 2 years then you are not suited to have any relationship with women other than being their cuckboy friend
being a defeatist cunt and claiming you should stay away from marriage because women are deceitful and evil is admitting that you are not capable of leading a family and being the head of the house
if you arent capable then dont do it, and more importantly dont shitpost about how miserable your life is, we have r9k for that
>you dont quit your job because its hard
you dont stop having kids because its hard, you do it because you want your family to continue on even without you
>muh minimize suffering
shitposting on pol and spreading your asscancer doesnt seem like you want to minimize suffering. you are lying or just not very bright
also
>complaining about insults
acting like a faggot doesnt get you gbp

They're going to make all ppl obsolete

Well I was raised like that and I like to think I turned out pretty fine considering I have a hardcore communist/feminist mother (then again I am posting on Sup Forums lel).
Kids with single moms get fucked up if the dad doesnt want to spend time with them or doesnt fight hard enough to be able to spend time with them, which sadly is often the case.
Inflicting damage on my kids would be showing them they have to cow tow to some insane spouse and have daily yelling matches with them :^)

Imagine this.
You wake up tomorrow and your gf has taken half of your shit and her new bf has threatened to kick your ass if you dare say anything about it.

You decide to say something anyway and the two of you get in a fight, the police arrive and arrest you and she gets even more of your shit and your wages are now garnished for the "emotional damage" you have caused them.

When you refuse to pay up you go to jail.
Then some faggot on an image board tells you this is all your fault for not finding a conservative gf who wouldn't do that to you, even though that's exactly what you thought your sociopathic ex was. Meanwhile she is fucking ernesto I your old house.
This is an extremely real possibility that many men could face I the west.

> that's bullshit and sounds stupid
Hence mgtow's existence, they think so too.

>Money transaction leave a trail.

Thats exactly why you take cash in everything

I know it seems hard to believe but cash has become very rare outside of Germany.

Exactly.

The police arrive and you are served with a TRO, and your life as you know it completely ends. Nogunz, career ruined, loss of custody and all property, and so on.

But that is the risk you must take if you realistically want to pass on your genes. It is a manageable one - wait until you're both mature and know who you are and what you want, and don't pick some selfish cunt, no matter how attractive she is.

The main con of mgtow is our people going extinct. This con outweighs ANY pros you might get out of mgtow (which aren't too many to be honest). This whole mgtow thing is the most obvious blue pilled propaganda I have ever seen. I genuinely don't understand why so many people on Sup Forums fall for it.

If we love our people we have to make sacrifices. I'm planning on getting a good christian house wife and have a dozen white children. I don't care if I spend all of my time, energy and money doing that, as long as I contribute to securing the existence of my people.

>if you cant teach your wife to behave herself after you've been married atleast 2 years then you are not suited to have any relationship with women other than being their cuckboy friend

You can always tell the
>IM AN ALPHA BRA!!! YOU DONT KNOW ME!!!! MUH DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!!!
That hasnt been fucked by the Judiciary family court.

> implying women ever mature
Why don't you just say it
>lol just go find a unicorn, is not that hard guys just FEEL them out!

Your entire theory rests on the fact that women aren't psychotic manipulators, which they are. They will fake you out until they get what they want, then you can get fucked.

youtube.com/watch?v=LM4IJvIAJ4A
Vid related

Yep - they read a little red pilled manosphere literature, and suddenly they're experts on women.
They don't realize, the state is the ultimate 'alpha', and bitches can and will turn to the state to fuck you over if they so choose.

>Seems like your being dishonest you know?

Why is that dishonest? Does the subject of the OP have to touch me somehow? Should all Bitcoin threads be started by only the ones who actually own them?

I'm done talking to you, third world ape. Hope you and your traditional family of wife and 7 kids have a fruitful life with your 500 euro salary in the shithole known as Serbia's Clay.

>is our people going extinct
>If we love our people we have to make sacrifices
Women are not our people Sir. They will burn society to the ground as they are known to do.
First step make Family a liability for men.
But sure you can always pull the good old
>Man up.

It's a simple case of hating what you can't have.

>The main con of mgtow is our people going extinct.
Guess you better get to fucking work helping them fix this shit then.

If you niggers spent half as much energy bitching out hoes as you do other men they might actually pull their heads out of the clouds once in awhile.

One thing is for sure, enabling these bitches isn't doing fucking anything.

>not being able to discipline your gf
if somehting like that happens then you deserved it
thats why humans have something called speech
if you need to beat your useless wife every time she doesnt know how to do something or how to behave then
1. she wasnt wife material in the first place
2. you need to improve your social skills
>ALPHA BRA
>MUH DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK
being "alpha" has nothing to do with what i said
i was talking about basic knowledge a man needs to have if he wants to have a wife and kids
not my fault you were neglected by your father
>"getting insulted gives me immunity to your arguments"
also
>third world ape
not an argument

So, women hate MGTOW because they want those men who are "going their own way" and know that they can't have them? Wow, you blew my mind, Edmund.

Well you moved the goaplosts when you mentioned you hereditable mental illnesses as an excuse for not having kids.
I mean obviously people with defects like that shouldn't have kids. I can see why mgtow works for you.
It's just not applicable to the general population and giving something as a pro mgtow reason when it only applies to a very small portion of humanity is very dishonest when you want to have an >honest and productive discussion about the pros and cons of MGTOW

>We shouldn't eat peanuts because 0.5 percent of the population is allergic to them.

I am the only one in my family who can pass on my surname. My parents decided to only have one child, so I will reproduce like a nigger.

breaking down the family unit is one of the tenants of communism. By eliminating the cohesiveness of the nuclear family its easier to infiltrate and subvert a country and culture. I'm married, wish i was single sometimes, but its my duty as a man to bring as many white children as I possibly can into this world and teach them how to be productive men and women of society when they get older. By just going your own way you leave no legacy to build on and you will quickly be forgotten to history.

>>not being able to discipline your gf
>if somehting like that happens then you deserved it

You will go to jail for domestic abuse the very first fucking time you try.

Say goodbye to being considered human you stupid nigger, you just lost that right when you dared to threaten a female under any circumstance.

Women don't want guys who subscribe to "MGTOW". Nobody wants these guys.

What women want, is a guy secure enough in himself that he gives no shits about chasing women. They'll either come to him, in which case he fucks them, or they don't, in which case who cares about them.
But labelling yourself a mgtow is just a way of saying "stupid bitch doesn't know what she's missing."
She knows.
She just doesn't want it.

Weak, spineless little poofs who don't know how to get a woman naked.

hahaha, you fucking idiots can't wrap your heads around all of the natural processes that go along with having a child. All of the bacterial, viral and immunity exchanges between mother and child cannot now or ever be duplicated. you're willing to have weak disgusting monster children cause you can't get your fat ass off your computer chair and attempt to actually fuck a woman. retards. your extinction is well deserved

>What women want, is a guy secure enough in himself that he gives no shits about chasing women. They'll either come to him, in which case he fucks them, or they don't, in which case who cares about them.
Demonstrably false you retard, go ask the bitch lasagna Indians on Facebook about that and see how much luck they've had with it.

>Guess you better get to fucking work helping them fix this shit then.
Don't worry, I am. It's my number one priority in life, almost everything else is just a means to an end.

>enabling these bitches isn't doing fucking anything.
I agree, enabling them is what got us into this mess. It's a man's duty to keep his woman in check. He is the head of the household.

t. unsuccessful neet

i never stated that violence is needed, as you can see in this postalso
>internet white-knight
fuck off to reddit
>flag
>implying you arent already a nigger
that was not the point of my post, and even if it was only 1 kid is needed. i dont know how much of a brainlet you need to be to make such a conclusion

You've just gotta use intricate mind games bro. Spend 90% of your waking hours on making the labyrinth of fractal mindgames ever more complex to make sure she doesn't leave you. Totally a """""manageable""""" risk per bro.

Good luck with that, I'll pray I don't see you on cops one day.

T. Not an argument

She will clean you out for emotional abuse, your idea is stupid and doesn't work you retard. You seriously think that none of the millions of men who have been fucked by family courts didn't think of the basic as fuck bullshit your spouting? They did, and it made shit worse because it's stupid and the court literally exists to fuck you in any way possible so the government won't get stuck with the check aka your bimbo and her bastards.

hehehehe, this pleb.
> He doesn't know how to control assets without owning them.
> He doesn't know how to fire himself from his own company so his wife can't get dick
> He doesn't know how to be a massive liability personally so if he gets divorced half her income is his

Its like he doesn't want a heritable estate at all and is effectively a defacto cuck

>being "alpha" has nothing to do with what i said
Dude I dont know shit about Croatia but it sounds like dont know shit about Western family laws.

>Well you moved the goaplosts when you mentioned you hereditable mental illnesses as an excuse for not having kids

How so? I never said that the OP applies to me.

>Can we have a honest discussion about the pros and cons of Jordan Peterson?
>Are you Jordan Peterson? No? Then GTFO