Someone please explain me how this fucker works? Shouldn't the true Sasaki Kojiro of the legends exist in the Throne of Heroes regardless of whether he was real or not? In every Fate work they tell that if a legend about someone exists, that someone automatically exists as an Heroic Spirit. Why was this guy summoned then?
Why the fuck Nasu overcomplicates things so much?
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In the Nasuverse, Sasaki Kojirou never existed. So the Grail plucked some random farmer who resembled the character in the legend the most.
Oh great, I was waiting for a thread about explanations, can someone explain me how King Crimson works again?
That goes back to what I said in my own post. In the Nasuverse, even if someone never existed, as long as there are legends about him, he will exist in the Throne of Heroes. It happens with a lot of mythological Servants.
I'm sure I've seen his tsubame gaeshi in different works
>Complaining about Sasaki
>This is Musashi just released in F/GO
>She is from a alternate time line
Don't think- Nasu
basically what King Crimson does is and that's how it works
well he is just the embodiment of said legend, as close to a Kojiro as you can get.
A refined man who admires the beauties of nature and wraps his body in an elegant battle surcoat. Aloof from the world and having a somewhat elusive personality but, as expected, he is a warrior who likes fair and square contests. Due to living in an age where casualties happen on a daily basis, his perspectives about life and death may also seem cold-hearted for a modern person.
Unlike Musashi, Sasaki Kojirou is a fictional swordsman whose real life is indefinite. This Sasaki Kojirou is nothing but a nonentity swordsman that was summoned due to the fact he can reproduce the ｢Tsubame Gaeshi｣ that appears in Kojirou's legend. The mental state of this genius swordsman - who remained anonymous for life, and was summoned in order to fill up for a fictional Heroic Spirit - is, of course, ｢that is fine too｣ it seems.
Basically, he's not Kojiro (because Kojiro never existed and was 3 man fused into 1 by Musashi to create a "rival") but because this anonymous dude can reproduce Tsubame Gaeshi just like the Kojiro from the legend, he was chosen to fill his shoes. That's all.
No, it doesn't. All the mythological heroes who got summoned were real people in the Nasuverse. Sakaki Kojiro wasn't so the grail summoned a random samurai whose skills were similar to the Kojiro of legend.
In the nasuverse, almost everyone in the throne of heroes actually existed in the past, which is why there are legends about them. Sasaki Kojiro, however, was someone who never actually existed, so his legend in particular is considered fiction. There was someone who knew Tsubame Gaeshi but wasn't named Sasaki Kojiro, so he was summoned instead as a fake heroic spirit because Caster was a fake master.
>Why the fuck Nasu overcomplicates things so much?
While I understand why you say this, there is nothing wrong with doing something different every now and then to spice things up a bit. It would be too boring if everyone follow the same pattern.
There was never anyone named Sasaki Kojiro. Rather, there were many stories about different people who were all attributed to the imaginary individual called "Sasaki Kojiro."
When Sasaki was summoned for the 5th Holy Grail War, instead of summoning a hero, it summoned up the soul of a dead warrior who lived in the nearby area and mastered the Tsubame Gaeshi, which was said to be Sasaki Kojiro's skill. Then it basically forced that wraith to cosplay as Sasaki Kojiro.
Why is that every time some new type shit title comes out it inspires every retard who has heard of Fate/Stay night to do shit like make threads about little points of lore when he could have googled it or just asked in any other TM related thread in any of the boards they're acceptable on?
Type Moon shitters are todays narutofags
>Type Moon shitters are todays narutofags
As a long time Type-Moon fan it pains me to agree with you.
>dead warrior
wasn't he just some farmer with a sword and a lot of free time?
Sort of. He was a farmer who studied under a samurai. After the guy died, the farmer continued to practice his swordsman techniques until he was capable of breaking reality.
But, regardless of his origins there's no doubt hat the wraith possessed unrivaled sword skills to the point that he was even better than Saber.
How is that possible? So many mythological beings are demi-gods/gods/descendants of Gods each with their own story of how they shaped the world/created the humans, basically their own version of the creation myth. How the fuck can multiple pantheons of Gods/beings of myth from different cultures even co-exist in the Nasuverse?
That isn't saying much. Saber is only remotely decent because she has some bullshit precog, an op weapon, and an op scabbard. She's basically a p2w scrub.
Aha, and what about all those fictional characters that never existed? Admit it, Nasu pulls shit out of his ass.
> almost everyone in the throne of heroes actually existed in the past, which is why there are legends about them.
Except all those fictional characters like Nursery Rhyme, Edmond Dantes and the Phantom of the Opera, etc.
>F/GO feels the need to keep gender-bending random heroes
Kinda liked it more when Saber was an almost unique case desu.
What happens if you summon the God of the Nasuverse? Assuming there are real "gods" that created the world in the Nasuverse.
Those were added in later Fate works when they started running out of actual myths and legends and had to start using old fiction.
There are rules against summoning Gods, but naturally, it's still happened a few times.
See Angra Manju and Buddha.
The throne of heroes only contains heroic spirits, not divine spirits.
Not the same user, but I assume that they were all real people but the legends built around them were bigger than the characters themselves.
In a sense, they are all the same than Sasaki Kojiro. All of them are the characters who are closest to the actual legend instead of the actual legend, because the legends are all embellished. Sasaki Kojiro is just a more extreme case, where the person who inspired the legend doesn't even exist (instead of existing but being different than remembered).
Neither of those are gods. Avenger was just a boy from a village that got sacrificed and got called the embodiment of evil. The Buddha is a human that achieved enlightenment, not a god.
Depends some gods hijack the summoning and Meduseless's older sisters do whatever they want. Most gods outside of The God are aliens anyways
So the first Heaven's Feel was just a straight up ritual with just the Einzbern, Tohsaka, and Matou families involved.
We know the third one is where everything went tits up after the Einzberns decided to cheat.
And we know the third and fourth Grail Wars.
What do we know about the second?
God with capital G is real (specifically the Christian God) but he can't be summoned. Minor deities can be summoned but there is always a catch.
You can't summon a god, but a god can choose to essentially overwrite the rules and be summoned. In general though the Holy Grail Wars don't interest most gods enough to bother showing up so for all practical purposes it doesn't really happen, even if there have been a few exceptions in Grand Order.
Okay, but what about some more modern religions that are more esoteric and man-made with no "earth-mother" or roots to pre-history, like Scientology, where they worship an alien race's leader called Xenu, or the flying spaghetti monster?
Nursery Rhyme isn't really a fictional character as much as a personification of a form of fiction (which is even more of an oddity), but both Edmond and the Phantom exist in the Nasuverse, with the books basically being directly inspired by their life stories.
Everybody killed each other in the second it had no winner, just a bunch of corpses
With within the divine community, what is consensus on the Holy Grail War? It's just that thing that happens where some humans fight over a little shitty relic? "Oh look Xenu-Steve is going down to play with the crappy humans in their war for fun?
So it's not anything important to the gods of the Nasuverse then?
>Shit, my bad ass sword teacher died.
>I'd better keep training so I can just fuck realty
How do you become this fucking rad?
There weren't any firm rules for the war, there was no supervision from the church, the mages and servants went hog wild and everyone died.
After that the three families contacted the church to act as supervisors and started putting rules on what was and was not allowed.
Last time the gods intervene they got their ass kicked hard by Altera. Her NP is literally a homing beacon to remind them they got beat and use their rage as a laser
In the theory that there is a true holy grail that is found gods might take interest (or might not). But for the fake holy grails (like the one in Fuyuki) the gods honestly don't really give a shit about those.
I thought the guy you were replying to was going to be the dumbest poster of the day, but you truly outdid yourself.
>Shouldn't the true Sasaki Kojiro of the legends exist in the Throne of Heroes regardless of whether he was real or not? In every Fate work they tell that if a legend about someone exists, that someone automatically exists as an Heroic Spirit.
Yes, you summon him in Fate/Grand Order. Turns out nameless farmer man basically gets the seat.
>Why was this guy summoned then?
Because a spirit container cannot materialize a spirit container. Only a living creature can. That is the entire reason Masters are living human magi. Medea absolutely could not have gotten a spirit from the throne of heroes no matter what she did, it violates a law of magic. The Grail detected a summoning ritual but it could not have materialized a spirit container no matter what, so it freaked out, grabbed a wandering wraith, and shoved it into a servant body and said "that'll do". It's sheer providence that the wandering wraith had any combat abilities at all.
>fight over a little shitty relic
There's your biggest misunderstanding.
What's being called the "Holy Grail" isn't a cup, even the one that held the blood of Christ.
It's a mind boggling reserve of magical power that could empower the user to do damn near anything, such as access the Akashic Records.
>Akashic Records
Importance being?
Do you even read Type-Moon works?
Are you serious, nigga?
It's an infinite vortex of all space, time, knowledge, history, souls, power, and every other noun you can care to generate. Go there and learn everything, do anything. If you don't die, at least. (You'll totally die.)
>Importance being?
You know that shit with Zeltrech and his parallel worlds being enough to destroy the Crimson moon? That is because of the finding the root. Humanity would not exist if the root couldn't be found.
See here's the thing then,
>Go there and learn everything, do anything
If there was a regular event to fight over for access to the records, which seems to give powers close to god, omniscience, omnipotence, why the fuck isn't this guarded more by divine beings. You'd think restricting humans from accessing this shit was vital. No one wants another Prometheus bringing fire to humankind right? Shouldn't the Nasu gods be guarding their shit more carefully?
Most of her power stems from the giant prana dragon core that she has. If she relies solely on her physical strength she'd be as strong as a 15 year old girl.
Autism, a lot of freetime and an intense hate for swallows.
>Shouldn't the Nasu gods be guarding their shit more carefully?
Because the Records are far above the authority any of the Gods and they have no authority over it or what humans do with it.
There is no clear road to the root, so there is little to fight over. It isn't comparable to the holy grail war system or anything else.
I like how Attila was turned into an alien girl with a laser sword not
>If there was a regular event to fight over for access to the records, which seems to give powers close to god, omniscience, omnipotence, why the fuck isn't this guarded more by divine beings. You'd think restricting humans from accessing this shit was vital. No one wants another Prometheus bringing fire to humankind right? Shouldn't the Nasu gods be guarding their shit more carefully?
First reason is Alaya and Gaia both have means to deal with anyone who wants to cause too much havoc. Divine spirits will exist so long as Gaia exists and Gaia has Arc to deal with any threats that are too big.
In addition most grails are flawed heavily. The Fuyuki grail is an example of one.
1. you vastly overestimate the activity of divine spirits in the modern era. They barely interact with the world at all anymore.
2. The fire of the gods was already stolen by Prometheus. And the lightning of the gods was already stolen by Nikola Tesla. There's not much left to steal.
3. It's already guarded by the planet which is greater than gods. To get to Akasha without being obliterated means evading the Counter Force, which is always watching cautiously in the distance. Remember that until Heavens Feel 5, the Holy Grail War always ends in calamity and failure.
The Counter Force only lets the worthy pass.
I agree somewhat, but it'd get kind of boring if everyone were male. We still get a lot of "realistic" depictions, and the genderbents are very interesting a lot of the times. Genderbending helps give more variety, and uniqueness to the series.
I wish they wouldn't do it so much with Japanese figures though. Nobunaga still hurts.
>Local farmer tells physics to go kill itself
I wish that all the great servants designed for GO were put in a more interesting context. They aren't nearly as interesting as if they were in their own story.
They were all kicked to the other side of the world and barely interact with the present world anymore.
Amaterasu was chilling in her own domain until she saw one of her aspects was getting all lovey-dovey with a dude, made her curious and Ray Shifted Hakuno to her room, prior to that she never cared about anything else going on. Quetzalcoatl probably spends his time watching Lucha Libre matches. Artemis must be busy making poor Orion's life a living hell.
They don't give a fuck unless it personally concerns them and even then the planet has its own defenses to deal with shit when things get out of hand.
Much like Li Shuwen, the Asians are really good at single-minded autism.
They of all people are definitely the kinds of people who would swing a sword for so long you'd break into the Second or swing a spear so religiously that you one-hit KO every motherfucker you come across.
>Because a spirit container cannot materialize a spirit container. Only a living creature can. That is the entire reason Masters are living human magi. Medea absolutely could not have gotten a spirit from the throne of heroes no matter what she did, it violates a law of magic. The Grail detected a summoning ritual but it could not have materialized a spirit container no matter what, so it freaked out, grabbed a wandering wraith, and shoved it into a servant body and said "that'll do". It's sheer providence that the wandering wraith had any combat abilities at all.
I hope you realize that this contradicts what you said above:
>Yes, you summon him in Fate/Grand Order. Turns out nameless farmer man basically gets the seat.
That can't be, because you're implying that nameless farmer only got summoned because Medea was an aberration, a Servant summoning another Servant. The real Sasaki Kojiro must be on the Throne.
Gaia is completely irrelevant anymore. As of F/GO, all timelines where humanity doesn't prosper get erased.
>That can't be, because you're implying that nameless farmer only got summoned because Medea was an aberration, a Servant summoning another Servant. The real Sasaki Kojiro must be on the Throne.
It isn't a contradiction, it is merely a coincidence of unprecedented proportion; the spirit she nabbed at random as a wraith is the same spirit that got enshrined onto the throne of heroes, even though Medea never contacted the throne of heroes at all.
Saber being unique was interesting and credible enough considering the context (a lot of the Knights of the Round Table are actually males but look like females, everyone would have thought the same about Arturia). I don't know what kind of excuses the others have to being recorded in history as males.
F/GO and anything "new" it tried to do is quite literally irrelevant.
People are seriously misinterpreting that. It's from Extella and not GO by the way. Worlds with weak human principles still exist, they just get pruned afterwards. Their timeline still happens. It's not like they aren't observable.
>waaah waaah FGO is irrelevant is not canon waah waaah muh FSN is all that matters for us true fatefags
Well yes, that's pretty much true. Not just F/SN though, pretty much anything except that blemish on the franchise called FGO could be taken seriously to some extent.
If I autistically train myself every day of my life can I shitpost three times at once?
Actual Fate fans in japan are treating Grand Order as one of the best things Nasu has ever written, EOP. Learn to embrace Mr. Kinoko's Wild Ride.
Sadly it's not up to you to decide what's irrelevant and non canon. The author says FGO is as valid as any other Fate work and that's the truth no matter how much you dislike it.
>Be guarding your door as usual when suddenly a demonic muslim bursts out of you.
Ever have this happen to you?
I don't give a fuck about typeshit or fateshit. but this faggot is pretty cool. his playing style on that doujin game is the shit.
>otaku waifufags
>can actually tell wether a story is well written
No fucking shit they like it, it was written explicitly to jew them out of their parents' money.
This.
A big part of the western fanbase is in denial about everything else that is not FSN. You don't see this happening in the Japanese fanbase. They and the very small part of the western fanbase that does accept everything else have a lot of fun with it, while the majority of the western fanbase act like a bunch of bitter old war veterans.
I wish there weren't so many non-Hassan Assassins. It really makes no sense, why did Nasu even create that rule if he's going to break it most of the time?
The rule was only for the Fuyuki grail war. Other grail wars don't have such a restriction.
The Moon Cell war doesn't use catalysts, so the "Assassin is the catalyst for Hassan" rule doesn't affect it. Same for Servant Summoning System "FATE" which is used in Grand Order.
In Apocrypha, the summoning of Hassans has been magically banned.
And that's all there is to it. Hassans appear in Prototype Fragments and Strange Fake.
Lets not forget that Type-Moon stuff is only for Japan and sometimes Asia, we're only lucky because Sony knew a majority of westerns imported KnK BD to bother to release the animes to the West.
Weren't Hassans banned in Apocrypha for being too op? If so I appreciate them acknowledging the fact that if anyone that wasn't retarded had a Hassan they could win easily.
As someone who hasn't read Apocrypha, how do you think the anime'll do?
I don't know much about the quality of the story and characters, do you think it'll be great, or one of those awful chuuni anime like Red Dragon?
Exactly so, Hassans were dominating all the subspecies Holy Grail Wars that were going on, and every time a Hassan would show up the battle would become "sit in my fortress doing absolutely nothing or else Hassan will get me". Resulting in dozens of failed Grail Wars, something was done about it.
It's going to be good.
The main complain people have about Apocrypha is that it had a cool concept (team grail war) and tons of interesting characters from both sides, but halfway through the story was hijacked by one of the most boring characters who stole screentime that could have been given to develop everyone else.
Basically it had a lot of potential but fell short due to bad decisions. I still think it will be decent as long as the most important fights are well animated.
I'm just scared they'll do it in one cour. Most LN adaptations are very rushed nowadays. If it's one cour it's going to be absolute shite.
>In Apocrypha, the summoning of Hassans has been magically banned.
It does my heart good to know that people could actually successfully use Assassins correctly.
you would think the guy would become a full-time warrior and make a name for himself with a skill like that. but no. just gonna farm my land.
I know it was for the sake of plot progression but it always bugged me that assassins, especially Hassan's are almost never used properly and never do anything that they are meant for. Imagine how fast F/Z would have gone if Kiritsugu had Hassan instead of Saber?
There is no way they can cover everything with one cour so I think it'll be 24-26 episodes. After all it's Fate, the name alone sells. Also Apocrypha is not a classic like Stay Night who got several adaptations so I doubt they want to screw it up. This is the only and last chance Apo has to shine.
You are absurdly overestimating A-1 and the industry in general. Most LN adaptations do 4-5 volumes per cour, and they do good enough that way.
The LNs also weren't very popular, Fate has a big fanbase, but Apocrypha is a spin-off with none of the characters that make the franchise sell, maybe Jeanne is popular enough now though. I also doubt they care about screwing the adaptation up, A-1 has fucked up several other adaptations before.
It could turn out well, but I wouldn't be so optimistic.
if Assassin's were able to write good stories then we'd see more of them.
I think the only way to actually get a Hassan-based story is if it follows a specific Hassan over multiple grail wars so that you can see how different people approach the same moveset from that Hassan.
got so out of hand, the church from the other side of the planet got wind of it.
everyone involved died.
Mordred is very popular
Not nearly as much as most FSN characters. Not every Fate fan is into all the spinoffs, most only care about the main story.
>permitting anything that fails to follow the thematic and setting conventions established by Rakkyou, Tsukihime, F/SN, and DDD
>possibly believing Grand Order remotely managed to capture those conventions at any point
>insipid fanservice garbage at worst which utterly destroys Nasuverse lore
>the most inconsistent braindead shounen idiocy at best
>not full autism rage at the state of the setting and Nasu's increasing incompetence, given the existence of F/GO
>EX rank fucking everywhere on everyone
>all of these pathetic attempts at humor in the years following Mahoyo's fumbling publication
>now all the fucking memes are the most prominent thematic and setting conventions within Type-Moon works because they've been used more than the original ones Nasu wrote of during TM's first 7 or so years from 1998 to 2005
>Nasu doesn't even care because he's too busy playing BB and DaS
>Tsukihime remake never, which is probably not a bad thing
Regardless of how you feel about GO so far Hassan's are being treated pretty well there.
King Hassan is the best.
meme magic exist for a reason.
>I can't believe some people will believe that FGO's "main story" will be relevant to anything outside its own continuity.
Characters and events from it are already popping up in other spin-offs. Narita is outright using it as a reference to frame his Gilgamesh and Enkidu interactions.