What is the biggest problem with the NGE sequel films? Leaving aside the fact they are complete rehashes...

What is the biggest problem with the NGE sequel films? Leaving aside the fact they are complete rehashes, why do they never even reach a single aspect of the originals in quality or memorability?

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gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc#asuka-in-unit-03
youtu.be/lo_WRB8dpbo
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Not enough of best girl Mari!

Mari is really hot I want to hug her

Because Eva was a product of the 90s from the beginning to the end. It feels out-of-place now. Everything changed

Eva without Eva. It's fanfiction.

Mari character is the problem.

The idea of a new character was brought up to Anno by two animators, he gave the go ahead on creating the character.

But instead of creating a new character, they just rehashed elements of other characters into her.
piloting Asuka's unit 2,
Rei's injuries,
Misato's mother-figureness,
Kaji's spy element,
Kaworu's impact/betrayal,
Yui's knowledge of Eva

Thing is, after creating this character in early production, before the story was written, Anno made the script similar to what we have now.
Mari's Frankenstein elements from the other characters was dropped, but they did not bother reintegrating the elements back to the respective characters,(its why they all feel soo shallow)

So we got 2.0

the earlier drafts are more compelling than the actual movies.

Because they're movies and thus don't have the length to develop the characters as much as the anime does.

And before anybody points out End of Evangelion, i consider that to be a long episode of the anime to ... well, end the show, hence the name.

I liked rebuild 1.0 though. It was more in depth version of episodes 5 and 6 and if you look at it that way, its a good movie.

2.0s flaws was as this user mentioned
they made mari using parts of the other characters and thus made people more hollow in that movie. Best part about it was rei coming with the rocket to help mari. Even though she failed, it was the most emotional part and thus my favorite of the movie. Which isn't saying much desu.

3.0 was alright imo but seemed rushed in the plot. Like some things were left too unexplained to enjoy properly. I understood the movie, but it needed more "fleshing out" if that makes sense.

> it was the most emotional part
you were easily emotionally invested in the movie.
were you a fan of NGE and had your investment spilled over to your rebuild experience?

>were you a fan of NGE and had your investment spilled over to your rebuild experience?

I guess you could say that. Im not the most extreme sperg when it comes to canon so the faluts in the rebuilds were not an absolute put off for me so I could enjoy the films.

Mari is the symptom rather than the disease. Mari is not important enough to be the disease, she's the symbol of the real problem, Anno trying to make his personal work into a multi-entry franchise what means erasing all the elements the audience never cared or openly hate in favor of the stuff they love like big explosions and waifus

Do you know about the original story for 2.0?

Originally Mari was going to be introduced by piloting Eva-2 at sea fighting an angel on battleships, Mari/Kaji are both introduced to the cast while Asuka arrives later by plane, both Mari and Asuka pilot Unit-2 with Asuka being its designated pilot , referring to Mari as her "support fire"(later used in 3.0)
Eventually Mari with a higher sync ratio with Unit-2 than Asuka becomes its main pilot during the 9th angel attack, leaving Asuka devastated not piloting Eva (NGE style) Asuka then jumps at the chance to pilot unit-3.(o_o)
Mari talks with all the pilots, goes to the school, Convinces Shinji (face to face) to pilot Unit-1 during the 10th angel attack at the watermelon field; kissing him...

The script was later remade (again) to what we have now.
it is also worth mentioning that Asuka was originally in unit-2 during the 10th angel attack. (In the first or second draft for 2.0.)
It explains why during the Zeruel battle (when it hits unit-2 a second time) the camera zoom's towards Mari's left eye (implying it getting hit), yet later we see that it's the right side of her face that's injured.---Originally Asuka was in Mari's

>Originally Mari was going to be introduced by piloting Eva-2 at sea fighting an angel on battleships,
>Mari/Kaji are both introduced to the cast while Asuka arrives later by plane,
>both Mari and Asuka pilot Unit-2 with Asuka being its designated pilot , referring to Mari as her "support fire"(later used in 3.0)
>Eventually Mari with a higher sync ratio with Unit-2 than Asuka becomes its main pilot >during the 9th angel attack, leaving Asuka devastated not piloting Eva (NGE style) Asuka then jumps at the chance to pilot unit-3.(o_o)
>Mari talks with all the pilots, goes to the school, Convinces Shinji (face to face) to pilot Unit-1 during the 10th angel attack at the watermelon field

Hey this sounds pretty coo-

>kissing him..

What bullshit. Glad they changed it.

>Mari: "Pups snap out of it! Save the Princess!"

What did she mean by this?

Probably save her from something, some people say she is referring to Yui.

Nothing to do with Asuka? As I recall that is Mari's nickname for Asuka.

Still confusing.

Where is this coming from exactly?

if you mean the source for the info, its from the Evangelion complete records collection 2.0

Here's a link to some translations
gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc#asuka-in-unit-03

I find it very strange that Evangelion became such a commercial cash cow, considering a lot of its themes and presentation

>gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc#asuka-in-unit-03
>>>
> Anonymous 01/02/17(Mon)21:23:05 No.151771162 ▶
>I find it very strange that Evangelion became such a commercial cash cow, considering a lot of its themes and presentation
People NEED something new, Eva was such a different beast compared to other anime, that people were drawn to it.

Every new concept or idea in the anime industry, from video game-themed mmo anime, Giant human eating monsters, people love novelty.

the story and characters take the most important element for any story and eva portrayed itself perfectly.

Why did they NOT go with one of those earlier drafts, and why do we still have fucking artifacts from them in 3.0?

Is Anno going to pull some crazy shit in 3.0 + 1.0 or are we all going to be let down?

I am a bit off, both Mari and Asuka were in unit 2, it added to her later statement that she couldn't have done it alone.
>Is Anno going to pull some crazy shit in 3.0 + 1.0 or are we all going to be let down?
who knows? I hope so.

oops, wrong pic. sorry

We soft pink now?

Do you Party?

I do, user. I do.

...

Explain this meme pls

Do you really want me to drop Mari guro?

CUTE

Love and play aren't memes

I might.

Newfags. All it is to it.

classic

What a cute little tongue.

...

Lewd
Got any pure cute?

what's defines pure cute?

this?

Nothing sexual, just pure girls being cute.

Very nice!

This plot was perfect except for Mari kissing shinji. We don't need a harem. Just Rei and Asuka are fine. Misato can join in occasionally

the thing with Mari, was that the kiss was to make Shinji do what she wanted.

As manipulate Shinji into piloting the eva.

anyone have one including Hikari?

Sorry user, can't say that I do.
I only own one 6 inch Hikari figure and it feels bad.

She should wear a bra.

Closest thing I got.

What you want is like asking for a Hikari X Maya doujin, they sadly do not exist.

I'm sure she does, but you've got to let the beasts free sometimes.

...

...

...

More Hikari!

>People NEED something new
MORE JOJO

Enjoy the ban I guess.

Why would that be banned? Read the rules silly user.

Hikari doujins are rare.

...

KICK HIS ASS
CHOKE HIM OUT

Other than the fact you break Global 2 every time you post, it's enough to warrant a ban.

Honestly? Screen time.

NGE gave us a lot of time to get used to the characters and establish the nuance they became famous for. Jet Alone (despite accusations of being a filler episode) is a great example of an episode that used its time wisely to flesh out the characters to an unusual degree. We spent a lot of time with these characters and got to see their quirks and insecurities and problems, and that's the foundation that EoTV and EoE are based off of. That's the only reason they were so cathartic and hard hitting and memorable in the first place. EoE without NGE to back it up would just be a pretentious arthouse film no one would like except contrarian "film buffs" so they could jack off their egos.

RoE has none of that. There's no time to do it. You can't flesh out a cast of characters in 6 hours like you can in 13. And even considering that, RoE does not use its economy of time well at all. I'm not going to pretend NGE Kaworu was some sort of deep masterwork of a character, but it is fairly striking that a guy who was in one episode for all of 15 minutes left a deep impression on the audience for decades. Meanwhile, Eva 3.33 gives the guy a whole movie to himself but somehow he ends up being bland and uninteresting. At least NGE Kaworu had hints of conflicting motivations and complex emotions. 3.33 Kaworu is just a bishie homo acting like he walked right out of a doujin all the way up until he explodes like a watermelon.

3.33 lays bare weaknesses of RoE that were there all along. It's not just inefficient use of very limited screen time, but also that there's no emotional foundation to build catharsis of. 3.33 is all of the cryptic and frustrating elements of NGE removed from any reason for the audience to care. And it's disappointing how 11 years ago when it became clear the movies were finally going to happen the question everyone had was "how are they going to pull this off in just 4 movies?" We have our answer now. They couldn't.

it kinda reminds me of star wars prequels, Soo many ideas packed into a movie, that were better off as episodic cartoon episodes.

diff user,
on that note, why would Anno restrict eva's story to 4 movis

>Is Anno going to pull some crazy shit in 3.0 + 1.0 or are we all going to be let down?

Depends on if you think Anno knows what he's doing or not.

Some say that 2.0 was a sarcastic piece of bait with Anno giving the audience what the always wanted, a super kewl TTGL-esque mecha show where Shinji nuts up and gets Japan favorite girl. According to this theory it was all just a set up to slap people in the face with 3.33, which does honestly fit with the original vibe and vision of NGE.

On the other hand there's evidence that Anno is just making shit up as he goes along because he hates the franchise and all its fans. Mari is an awful character and her existence makes no sense, not even as the most straightfaced satire. What little we can piece together about 3.33's backstory is often contradictory or seems nonsensical. Curse of the Eva is a transparent attempt to have a timeskip yet keep all those underage waifus around for figurine sales.

If nothing else, Shin Godzilla proved that Anno can make something good if he feels like it. They'll be no way to know until we see it (expect a 2021 release date at the earliest).

I never cared much for the color palette either.
They tried to change it up (along with the key frame designers) for 3.0 to fit the tone, but as a consequence it gives off a sense of inconsistency.

>Some say that 2.0 was a sarcastic piece of bait with Anno giving the audience what the always wanted, a super kewl TTGL-esque mecha show where Shinji nuts up and gets Japan favorite girl. According to this theory it was all just a set up to slap people in the face with 3.33, which does honestly fit with the original vibe and vision of NGE.

This most likely.

Most likely answer is money. You can put a lot more in the bank when everyone has to pay for a ticket (plus money from previews) to see your new project then if all you have is advertising from 5 minute commercial breaks.

I don't like the term "selling out" because I feel it's overused and applied to situations it doesn't belong, but there honestly doesn't seem to be any compelling reason to do movies over a new series besides money.

Agree. Another interesting parallel there is that both Lucas and Anno made successful projects (that were genuinely good) and got hyped up as gods of storytelling until they started to make things that fell flat. I almost wonder if after you reach "Golden Boy" status your creative team becomes less apt to question your decisions in a way that damages the new works. For example, George and Anno were both talented (and may still be as talented as they always were), but where before another team member might point something out that would cause the director to reexamine and maybe alter something, now they assume anything they think must be great and let it through, resulting in a rougher, less rigorous product.

Neon Genesis Evangelion: characters and plot first, mech fights and anime tropes second

The Rebuild of Evangelion: mech fights and anime tropes first, characters and plot second

>Agree. Another interesting parallel there is that both Lucas and Anno made successful projects (that were genuinely good) and got hyped up as gods of storytelling until they started to make things that fell flat. I almost wonder if after you reach "Golden Boy" status your creative team becomes less apt to question your decisions in a way that damages the new works. For example, George and Anno were both talented (and may still be as talented as they always were), but where before another team member might point something out that would cause the director to reexamine and maybe alter something, now they assume anything they think must be great and let it through, resulting in a rougher, less rigorous product.

Anno and Lucas are complete opposites, Anno allows other people to bring up ideas, criticisms whereas Lucas actively removed any naysayers from the prequels.

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>You will never, EVER see Gendo and Fuyutski's mountaineering broadventures in 3.0

rebuilds are basically fanfiction and the brown haired girl is dumb

1.0 is alright. Its just episode 5+6 rehashed with more detail and better graphics. Since it didn't deviate much from the original compared to 2 and 3.0

>3.33 Asuka spends most of the movie being striken with "anger and grief" Shinji not saving her
>no one, not even fucking Misato bothers to tell her that Shinji tried to bring down the whole geofront in grief

The whole events of 3.33 could have been avoid with something as simple as talking

1.0 was too fast paced for my taste, I like slow-well paced stories. (like NGE)

Anno had plans for rebuild since 2000, I wounder why and what he initially was planning.

>1.0 was too fast paced for my taste,

Its objectively longer than episodes 5+6 together and it was entirely a redo of those two episodes fighting Ramiel aka the Geometrically screaming, mountain destroying angel. If you see it as just a redo of those episodes it fleshes out the characters more and deviates very little from NGE compared to 2.0/3.0.

Having just watched the eps 1-6 and the 1.0 in quick succession, the most obvious thing is that everyone in the Rebuild is much more angsty sooner than they did in the original -- Shinji even gets in an extra early hell-train ride -- and almost all the light-hearted moments are cut out, often to be replaced by extended bits of the fight scenes.

>Its objectively longer than episodes 5+6 together and it was entirely a redo of those two episodes fighting Ramiel aka the Geometrically screaming, mountain destroying angel. If you see it as just a redo of those episodes it fleshes out the characters more and deviates very little from NGE compared to 2.0/3.0.

its still has the first 6 eoispdes of NGE condensed to 90 minutes, thats a about 2 hours and 30 minutes of NGE condensed to a 90 minutes film.

it feels completely rushed

I hope 4.0 will be longer, there is so much questions that the previous movies have brought up and also the questions on how everyone has no memories of End gone.

Honestly I hope it just skip's anything related to the time skip.
Not enough screen time. Im only interested in what the characters feel i.e, Asuka and Misato with Shinji.

I hope we get cathartic dialogue between them and the MC, nothing else matters to the human aspect of the film.

Well one of the WILL-E girls have a huge role to play in the next film, some one is going to have to snap Shinji out of it.

We know Asuka is always thinking about Shinji in 3.33, but Misato doesn't get much screentime so its hard to say. I just hope those 3 put their differences aside quickly and become friends again.

Honestly I think Sahura Tohi's litle sister is going to have a "talk" with Captain Nemosato or Shinji about the evevents in 2.0 with the city destroyed, like in Nadia, with Electra

youtu.be/lo_WRB8dpbo

Go to 34:37

It becomes easier to rationalize once you accept that a sizable portion of the audience only cares about the big purple robot fighting the aliens and the blue hair girl and red hair girl being sexy

>Some one is going to have to snap Shinji out of it.
Hopefully Asuka after her choker explodes.

But Suzuhara's sister doesn't seen that angry at Shinji, which is weird. I doubt she'll be pointing a gun at anyone.

>Hopefully Mari after her choker explodes.

FTFY

>There was literally no explanation given as to why the fuck Gendo was still doing what he was doing
I'm still mad
Why can't Gendo ever be a main character, why does everything about him like his motivations constantly need to be a product of significant conjecture and speculation

she said,

It will NEVER come off, with a distant stare

I'm certain that her ""front"" was staged, and she will reveal how she really feels to shinji when they become alone.

Anno will probably use her character as a vehicle to focus on Misato's part in destroying the world. on a speaker. after they fought Nerv's equivlent of the wunder with the crew in the water. ()pic related() cuz refrence

> im doing hack writing off the top of my head

Suicide anytime, Reifag.

Well Asuka tried to genuinely kill Shinji in her Eva, so I doubt they will.

That was just her playing her tsundere side, Asuka was on the verge of tears when she realizes she yells out "DO SOMETHING BAKA SHINJI!" and she's always thinking about him too.

Going to murder someone without hesitation is not tsundere. She was 100% prepared and wanted to kill him.

The scene where he uses alien powers just freaked her the fuck out, she knows he's a monster that needs to be destroyed and has no problems doing it herself.

Well she's angry at him for personal reasons not related to 3rd impact, compared to Mari's cool and collected reaction to the whole fight. Asuka could have killed him in the entry plug, but instead was "nice" to him and explain why she was sad.

If you notice, all Asuka's scenes only relate to Shinji now. Compare that to Soryuu.

How was she nice to him? She pulled his hair and kicked him down.
She is only dragging him back to Misato's base for orders, before she would have happily killed him on those same orders too.

All of Asuka's scenes are about Shinji because she isn't a fucking character in Rebuild. She's a shallow shell that's about as interesting to watch as paint dry.

She also looks likes a transvestite man donkey witch.

>She also looks likes a transvestite man donkey witch.

Ok that's a little to far, even for a rei-user

You know I'm right.

20 years later and she's still by far the ugliest character in the cast.

Well she explain her reasoning why she punched the glass, here is a question: Why did Asuka yell out Shinji to help her and then start to cry?

>All of Asuka's scenes are about Shinji because she isn't a fucking character in Rebuild. She's a shallow shell that's about as interesting to watch as paint dry.

At first I thought you were implying that Asuka is an anti-hero, but now you've outed yourself with this bait, Reifag.

Because she knew Shinji was in there, and she was lost for what to do. She didn't fucking cry, she thinks he's a fucking freak and gladly steps up to the plate to kill him later in the movie.

It's Anno's retrial to fuck over his fanbase again. The original plot is subverted. Mari is the new Rei, who was intended to be an emotionless doll to make people feel disgusted at their own taste, but since character development backfired that plan, mari is a mindless slut with no personality either. I don't really like her, but i guess most people are too busy fapping to her to focus on her poor character (which was intended), so it sort of backfired again.

It teases us with a new plot involving some nervous system key, which he will never reveal. It teased us with third impact by not showing us how it happened and putting a lot of bullshit later on.

And the CGI sucks, the 2010's digital shading with gradients sucks. The whole thing sucks.

Her eyes twinkle at the thought of Shinji saving her.

>she thinks he's a fucking freak and gladly steps up to the plate to kill him later in the movie.

But she didn't, she holds his hand at the end. You're just mad that Shinji and Asuka will be spending significant time together in the next movie.

Her eyes only shine after Shinji saves her, and it's clearly shock going on there.
That's why next time she sees him she punches the glass in rage. He's just a freaky weird ugly kid to her, she'd rather kill him or deal with other shit.

She grabs his hand at the end to drag him to Misato, you clearly see her pulling him by the wrist.
And in the preview for the next movie we see Asuka and Mari piloting an Eva together, so looks like you're gonna be the mad one here when they make her out to be a fucking butch dyke.

Filenameskun still on the dole I see.

Asukafag still on the anti-depression meds I see.