Assumption 1: Flynn lied to the FBI on 29 December 2016. Proof: That's when he stated "refrain from escalation of the situation in response to the sanctions that the U.S. imposed against Russia on the same day.” and which he recently confessed was false.
Assumption 2: Trump fired Flynn on 13 February 2017. Proof: Factual.
Assumption 3: Trump pressured Comey into dropping the Russia investigation on 14 February 2017. Proof: Dicey. Only James Comey's testimony really (or potential) tapes, depending on if you believe him.
Assumption 4: Trump states today that he fired Flynn because he lied to the FBI. Proof: His tweet.
Conclusion 1: Trump knew on 13 February 2017 that Flynn lied to the FBI. Conclusion 2. Trump knew on 14 February 2017 that Flynn lied to the FBI. Conclusion 3: Trump knew while he was pressuring Comey that Flynn lied to the FBI. Conclusion 4: Trump is fucked.
Either one of these assumptions is false, or Trump is fucked for committing obstruction of justice (e.g. knew of a crime, and pressured an investigator to drop the crime).
The only real question is remaining which assumption is false, if any. Assumption 3 is the weakest. I personally don't trust Comey. But if there are tapes, then Trump is going to jail.
Meme all you want, that holds no power. Point out specific flaws, and you have power.
Eli Clark
One way out is also to just say that Assumption 4 is false because it was just a tweet and not an official testimony.
Michael Gonzalez
muller is building up the case for Trump. We still don’t know if Flynn / Manafort etc got transactional immunity as part of any plea. But there’s the thing: POTUS doesn’t have immunity from subpoena ... that was all litigated during the Clinton Impeachment. So, If it is down to he said/Trump said, Trumps only legal recourse is to plead the 5th. His hand are also tied in any all out assault to discredit the investigation, FBI etc (one of his favourite tactics), because that could lead to obstruction charges and a whole bunch of problems. He’s not gonna survive a full term. Why? He’s not going to be impeached. He’s going to step down and spend the rest of his days making coin and berating all his critics. At the end of the day, Trump only cares about Trump, and like all his failed and corrupt businesses will take the profit, cut the losses, and move on like nothing happened. And he’ll take credit for anything American conservatives do until he dies.
Lincoln Watson
I don't agree with everything that you said but I agree that from the evidence the public knows so far, Mueller's target is Trump himself.
Nathaniel Barnes
...
Cooper Robinson
Remember kids, it's not the crime that fucks you over, it's the covering up of it.
Same with Watergate. Nixon probably had nothing to do with the break-in, but he tried covering it up.
democrats always go for impeachment, it never works, it's always external causes.
flynn did nothing wrong, just paying for what he said of obama military skills
>“In 2014, Michael Flynn abruptly announced that >he was retiring from the Army ahead of >schedule. It was the polite way of saying that he >was canned
leaveheralone.jpg
Aiden Allen
Stay on topic. Criticize Obongo elsewhere.
Spam elsewhere.
Angel Mitchell
...
Brayden Lopez
...
Kayden Bennett
Kids... laughs.... oh bucko. What are you going to do with yourself over the next 3 years? He’s not going anywhere.
The only reason this is still being pushed to this day is because they have invested so much into it that it is now the Democratic active campaign for the next election. They will banks solely on this since none of the sexist stuff worked.
Caleb Edwards
Flynn did nothing wrong with the Russia contacts. But he did do wrong in lying to the FBI. That breaches federal law.
Also we're not discussing impeachment here, we're discussing if Mueller will charge Trump with obstruction of justice.
Jace King
You haven't addressed any of the points here. Stay on topic. There's no truth by declaration.
Gavin Hall
>literally doing a good thing instead of trying to pick a fight with them before the election was even over like Hillary did.
yes, that is why he won, dipshit.
John Myers
fuck off boris
u russians are fucked and u know it
Christopher Lee
I think this user's point is the "Which had just thrown the US election to him."
In any case I don't believe that crap. One Trump adviser means nothing.
Lincoln Bennett
this is evidence for democrat corruption. if there ends being no actual proof of the russian collusion, which seems to be the case, then this just shows they made it all up and did shit like this to make Trump look bad
can't wait for them all to go to jail and for liberals to freak the fuck out and actually have to read some articles explaining what happened
Samuel Carter
Circled Quotations are HER OPINION. Opinion!!! This is not a fact.
Juan Hill
Who is they?
Totally agree.
Ayden Hughes
russian damage control
James Foster
I feel like Trump is loosing it. He's a 71 year old man with the most stressful job in the world. I think it's effecting him mentally.
Question 1. If he goes to court, can his lawyers plead insanity on his behalf due to dementia?
Question 2. Can you plead insanity, if you have clear mental problems at the time if trial, but were not while you committed the crimes?
Jose Cox
Mueller can't charge Trump with a crime directly. If he has anything substantial, he will bring it to Congress. Impeachment is to elected officials as indictment is to civilians.
Eli Cox
non-arguments
Caleb Wright
except comey is on record saying trump didn’t pressure him, and never gave any kind of direct order.. remember when we all had a good laugh over comey saying Trump intimidated him? Watch that video. It’s over after ABC made their clarification, for now anyway lol
Gavin Williams
No obstruction whatsoever. There is an economy in administering justice (happens everyday in drug courts). Charges are dropped or lessened due to evidentiary problems and just not worth it.
Trump is the head of the executive branch. He could have Mueller replaced tomorrow if he wanted to. This is a POLITICAL witchhunt, and everyone knows it. Trump is not stopping this charade because he trusts the political implications would be far less if he doesn't intervene.
Gabriel Wood
>assumption >assumption >assumption >assumption show flag faggot
Jace Collins
Except it wouldn't be obstruction of justice even if he had done it. The president is allowed to dismiss the director of the FBI at any time, for any reason. That isn't obstruction of anything the FBI continues working.
Elijah Gray
Ok.
Jaxon Garcia
Texas and proud. Are you scared, imbecile?
A non-argument refuting none of the points above.
The dismissal is not part of this argument. It is the attempt to sway the investigator, which is OoJ black-and-white. But I'm fairly sure you can get lawyers to show you cases where dismissal of investigative personel can be interpreted as an action for obstructing justice.
There are clear stanzas what counts as obstruction.
Ethan Reed
Uh huh
Zachary Cox
...
Josiah Ross
Nice meme Boris. If you had been paying attention this thread is about obstruction about justice, not collusion with you fags.
John Parker
>no links and archives with proofs
nice try fag
Christian Bennett
Ask for specifics and you shall receive.
Also 1, 2, and 4 are fucking trivial to look up.
Take your formalist ass elsewhere and let the big boys discuss.
Samuel Mitchell
You do realize that if Trump is impeached and removed from office for something like this, many, me including, would see this as a deep state attempt at removing our choice from office?
If Trump did do something truly reprehensible, I would relent and join the voices again him. It is not looking like that, though.
I will join whatever resistance movement I can. That is all I will say here on /pol.
Luis Anderson
Muellers plan is to make Trump submit so many lawyers documents he has to spend 10,000,000,000$ in lawyers fees then Mueller can go down as the man who ended a president via law admin costs.
Ian Watson
>a fag >complains about people calling him a fag >formalist wew you are a fag
but seriously all your quotes are just copies of bits and pieces from biased news articles and you dont use the actual sources >pic related
Austin Howard
>Deep state attempt Do you disagree that if all assumptions are true, this counts as obstruction of justice?
In whose court would this be judged?
Unless you think the federal courts are part of the deep state of course.
Proof that this is his plan? This seems to just be a weak argument trying to imply that Mueller doesn't "really" have anything.
We've already seen a glimpse of what he does have, and it's significant. What's wrong with my original argument?
Jackson Ward
I was replying to that one certain fag's post and don't give a fuck what your shit thread is about.
Adrian Cruz
Isn't James Comey a known liar? His testimony means nothing. There are no tapes.
Isaiah Powell
Point me to an "actual source" of what Flynn said to the FBI on 29 December 2016., or you're just as guilty of the crime you're accusing me of.
Colton Cox
>You do realize that if Trump is impeached and removed from office for something like this
Clinton was removed from office because he got head from a jew and lied about it to congress. If you think firing a director of the FBI because he wont let your buddy off the hook is a lesser crime then I guess what you said probably makes sense to your monkey brain.
Robert Parker
Trump acted as well as he could being under an extreme stress of getting introduced to being POTUS and trying to scrape together a cabinet.
Flynn lies to the FBI on December 29, about talking to Russians about defeating ISIS shortly after Trump wins the election, for national security purposes he lied I am assuming. ISIS could not know about the Russia+USA alliance.
Trump was not aware of this because he was busy preparing his inauguration and celebrating Christmas. He probably found out Flynn lied early February, I think the man you want to talk to is Pence because I think he was the guy who told Trump about Flynn first.
Trump pretty much fired Flynn as soon as when he knew Flynn committed a crime. Also that Comey claim you are making is super spurious and Trump said something like "you don't need to investigate this because nothing went wrong and we are taking care of it"
Jack Perry
Lets go negro.
On Twitter, Donald Trump himself just told the world that he fired Micheal Flynn because he knew that he lied to the FBI during their investigation of Russian collusion during the election. To be more precise: Donald Trump just claimed that Flynn lied about Russian collusion when Flynn originally claimed to the FBI that the Trump election campaign hadn't contacted and colluded with Russian officials during the FBI's investigation. Not that Flynn lied about saying he colluded with Russia; if he admitted to colluding with Russia originally, the investigation would have been open and shut when they first contacted Flynn. Nope. He goes out of his way to identify the lies that Flynn has pled guilty to.
There is no way to interpret this that doesn't involve Trump knowing what Flynn lied about.
Xavier Rivera
This is what I'm tending to. But no court is going to dismiss testimony based on the assertion that the witness is a "known liar." That's not how the process works.
There has to be some substantial way to demonstrate his testimony is actually unreliable, or at least insufficient.
Easton Reyes
>hold up there, you expect me to search for the actual source material and not just use biased cnn, bbc, ind etc. articles
you really got me cornered there for asking where you get your shit from im totally btfo'd
Justin Roberts
THIS Comey is a liar. Probably working for (((someone))) else.
Camden Cook
They tried many times to get him to stop tweeting. Some people are just too stupid to stop even when warned over and over and over...
Oliver Hall
I agree with almost everything you said. Trump probably didn't find out until February. But that doesn't mean that the (supposed) pressure on February 14th is unsubstantial.
Even the way you phrased it could count as OoJ.
>There is no way to interpret this that doesn't involve Trump knowing what Flynn lied about. Exactly. This is my point. What's your problem?
Grayson Hughes
What about 3?
This all rests on Comey telling the truth, which he doesn't have a good track record of.
Colton White
Many are. How do you think many judges became judges? Benevolence and justice? You need to read about the Franklin scandal, user. If a topic is damaging enough, the DOJ itself can be corrupted.
It has been corrupted for awhile.
I will not accept Trump's removal unless it is from something genuinely corrupt. Obstruction of justice can be whatever a prosecutor or judge interprets it to be. It is a method of removing a problem from power.
I was disgusted by the impeachment of Bill Clinton, and I am disgusted by the bullshit going on against Trump.
I am losing my patience.
Levi Powell
You don't get it do you? There is no crime. That is abundantly clear. The investigation has fizzled now. Your assumption is that there is a crime. You are foolish to make such a conclusion.
Christian Nelson
>asking where you got your shit from Except you didn't.
Where's this record? I don't think I've seen it.
Eli Garcia
No, it is not. Mueller's target is whoever has committed a crime.
William Thompson
I replied to the wrong comment and actually am in agreement with you.
Jose King
oh i know where you get it from, don't forget pic related for starters, stop pretending to be retarded and give me real sources, link them or just archive it
Lucas Taylor
It sounds like you think OoJ is a useless law. Which is valid. I'm personally not comfortable with scrapping it though.
The crime proposed is obstruction of justice, as Trump knew Flynn lied to the FBI when he tried pressuring Comey into dropping the investigation. Your declaration of there being no crime is useless without specific counter arguments.
Anthony White
It was addressed last year, faggot. Your bill has access to the country's entire spy network, and hasn't been able to find shit. They're turning screws on people for shit they did while working for the Dems.
Now eat a dick. Sage.
Lincoln Ramirez
Fuck off, Chang.
Brody Martinez
Go watch Putin's interview with Oliver Stone. The president changes, but US policy doesnt change. Why?
Because bureaucrats are deeply entrenched in the US politcal system. You can't drain the swamp without uncovering a few skeletons.
The anti-trump/Russia hysteria suggests that they are digging too close to the skeletons.
I wouldn't be surprised if bureaucrats cornered Flynn into lying, knowing that he couldn't reveal ISIS-Russia details due to national security interests.
That's what I would do, if I was a corrupt bureaucrat.
Xavier Miller
>I wouldn't be surprised if bureaucrats cornered Flynn into lying, knowing that he couldn't reveal ISIS-Russia details due to national security interests.
I genuinely don't understand. How do you corner someone into lying about that?
Gavin Rogers
>Conclusion 3: Trump knew while he was pressuring Comey that Flynn lied to the FBI
>Proof: Dicey.
>Trump knew while he was pressuring Comey
>Dicey
Landon Foster
Drumph wil b imbeach soon
Hudson Robinson
>memes hold no power >says the faggot with a memeflag
Why did Comey's FBI convict Nishimura but not Clinton for the exact same 'careless' crime.
Gavin Reyes
First, I would love to see the whole quote to see if there is any missing context.
Second, is what she wrote a demonstrable fact, or is she spouting out thoughts that have no link to anything substantial.
Carter Hughes
Ever consider that Flynn and the Russian ambassador were working together...for national security reasons??
If the FBI asks questions which will reveal a joint US-Russia national security strategy, that would be one way to get Flynn to lie.
And that seems to be what he lied about. And they probably knew he would prioritise national security over the election scandal. Dems obviously care more about party politics than national security.
Luis Johnson
>Flynn lied >Trump fired I don't see what the big deal is.
Gabriel Ward
>Trump fired personally, I can't wait
Evan Edwards
It's not that he fired him that's the problem. It's the fact that at that point he knew about him lying to the FBI.
Which is an extremely serious prior when you consider his subsequent actions for the purposes of obstructing justice (e.g. trying to protect Flynn)
Levi Martin
he knows now that he lied to the FBI, at the time he fired flynn because he lied to mike pence.
Austin Watson
>tfw you have to post the same thing in 2024 when Trump is finishing his second term >the absolute state of delusional dems
he did lie to mike pence and the FBI, we know this, what exactly is the problem? he said when he fired Flynn it was because he lied to mike pence, before we know about the FBI. its not illegal to make an unclear statement on twitter and even if it was you cant charge the president with a crime.
Nicholas Ramirez
Nice concern trolling. The Republican flag is a nice touch
Liam Cooper
OMG you faggots are so fucking desperate. Trump saying "and the FBI" can be in response to yesterdays revelations. He can claim to know Flynn lied to the FBI because they guy plead guilty to it YESTERDAY, and not months ago when he fired him.
You guys are 2 bites away from finishing this shit sandwich that everyone told you was a shit sandwich. It didn't matter, you scarfed it down anyways, and now that you're realizing what you've eaten you're looking for someone to blame.
It's fucking pathetic.
Blake Fisher
Ah Trumps first Pardon?
Caleb Jackson
They can't stop themselves.
Robert Cox
>Trump fored Flynn months ago because Flynn lied to the FBI yesterday.
Trump said that he fired him BECAUSE he lied to the FBI Trump fired him months ago.
Easton Cook
I get the feeling Trump is going to set a long standing record for most pardons, most executive orders, and least days spent at the White House.
Nicholas King
>IT WAS HER TURN YOU F*CKING NAZIS!!!
Jaxon Murphy
>most executive orders You have to, to get rid of the last ones.
Jordan Foster
They have never processed the election, they still hold out hope. Imagine the devastation when they realize - Trump was just a stepping stone. They blew their wad at go
Julian Diaz
There was news today that Mueller fired one of the agents on the case for making anti-Trump statements.
Owen Johnson
>desperate Funny, I don’t feel desperate.
Joseph Hill
Gee,wonder how many faggot journos will base articles off this post... >The left wins all the arguments noones having.
Brayden Butler
The media's obvious alinksy tactics: Never cease the anti-trump media assault.
What did Flynn lie about exactly? Lots of smoke, no fire.
Camden Fisher
wat's there to be scared of?
Robert Fisher
"refrain from escalation of the situation in response to the sanctions that the U.S. imposed against Russia on the same day." Take your media agenda elsewhere, stay on topic.