Jordan Peterson doesn't understand postmodernism.
Jordan Peterson doesn't understand postmodernism
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His arguments are bs
Jp confirmed for idiot
ummm sorry sweetie all opinions on what postmodernism is are equally valid
/thread
To be fair postmodernists aren't making it easy considering the lack of objective truth an all.
sage
Discussing people, instead of the ideas those people put forward, is the stupidity that is steadily claiming this place.
I expect better from you faggots
Counter sage because fuck you bucko!
You could be arrested for posting here you fucking leaf.
Agreed
the first time I heard him I was like "wait... does this guy understand what post-modernism is? He has to. Hes a professor... but everything he's saying is post-modernist..."
Can't stand him
I wonder if you are:
an average Sup Forumslack butt-hurt because of JP's denouncement of antisemitism,
a SJW just riding this wave of shitposting over this guy (not ideas) or
just a fucking retarded that cannot even read the rules of an internet board and understand them
what do you mean by Jordan?
what do you mean by Peterson? Do you mean DOCTOR Peterson?
what do you mean by understand?
what do you mean by postmodernism?
jp is a sellout
We're gonna meme this now
op btfo
Jordan Peterson must like Neanderthals with rhesus monkey blood and k9 horse hair that's dead and thin. He must like pink dick. He must like for his man to smell like the puppy he is when he get wet. He like rubbing SPF 2million on him before he go out in the sun come on guys don't judge his love for this dissolving sub human come on now that's not right. He took him all the way from the caucus mountains and let him and his family destroy the world from top to bottom. This is love right here. He like dead Asians. That's what Caucasian means. He wants his man pale skinned with melanoma and calcified pineal gland that believe he is superior because Europeans created Jesus and told him that he come from a pale skinned blonde recessive blue eyed Caucasoid that look like a fag and like little girls and like to murder people throughout his bible. He like his man to look st his as if he’s nothing and he's everything while his skin is beautiful his eyes are not recessive and he has the original blood type and hr has monkey and dog blood type. This is love. He let him steal his land. Now him and his Caucasian people have stole all our land and think america is home to them. You can be a native to America Mr and Mrs white people and anybody else that ain't us. You can be born here which makes you natives but you're not from here you're not aboriginal copper colorned Americans with kinky hair and penny colored skin that absorbs the sun. Let him love heisdog ape man in Peace. Prase pale skinned melanoma Caucasian imaginary Jesus aka Caesar Borje or whatever that fag name is. Bitch
what do you mean by meme?
what do you mean by now? do you mean "now" now?
and what do you mean by we? are you some kind of collectivist? who are "we"? what are "we"? do you want to box me in somewhere? stop with your yes/no questions, and stop categorizing me, bucko
None of these people have read a book. Start with Nietzsche, or you could just read Plato or the bible if you're interested in attempts at so-called objectivity. Better yet go lurk at /lit/ for a bit
OP makes a legitimate point. There’s lots of legitimate academic arguments against Derrida, but JP hits with ad hominem and barely thought out rants. Pretty much which one would expect from a psychology prof., the laziest of all studies; lacking the rigor and empiricism of science nor the epistemological constructs of humananities. His personality profile books are pop psych at its worst, one step removed from the scams of LRonHubbard and dianetics. No one at UofT takes this clown seriously...
Its understandable that you are afraid. There really is nothing justifying the order you think you understand. The universe is literally a chaotic soup and we are insignificant.
Bamp
you are yet to present any argument in defense of postmodernism
in current academic representation its nothing but destructive neomarxist power-struggle ideology
you are god
carry on
Its not actually 'post' modernism. We literally have nothing that establishes objective truths beyond ideology. Science is the closest thing we have and thats only because its method presupposes that knowledge is always incomplete
Even the postmodernists and academic surrealists don't understand postmodernism, literally just a jargon cluttered non-intuitive subjectivity exalting tenure securing thought experiment.
He concedes a lot to post modernism, his main problem with it has more to do with its usage in certain hands as opposed to its actual tenets. He doesn't deny the subjective nature of individual reality and interpretation but argues against using this to support ideas like " all interpretation is subjective and therefore all interpretations are equally valid ". Whenever I see a post like this it is never given with a summary of post modernism or are any points given to support the claim that he doesn't understand it. He also sees no brilliance in deconstructing the "social constructs" we formed around natural phenomena over millennia to nothing and claiming that this somehow renders them useless.
I agree with your critique of 'critical' academia but your claims about postmodernism are ill informed
That's doctor Peterson to you, you little Newtonian? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at McGill University, and I’ve been involved in numerous scientific papers on mythology, and I have over 300 confirmed citations on ResearchGate. I am trained in neuropsychology and I’m the top tenured humanities professor in the entire University of Toronto. You are nothing to me but just another Collectivist. I will wipe you the bloody out with precision the likes of which has never been seen even in a Soviet gulag, mark my bloody words. You think you can get away with defining truth to me over the Internet? Think again, collectivist. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of psychiatrists across Canada and your archetype is being analyzed right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your super-ego. You’re bloody individuated, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can analyze you with over seven hundred different psychotherapy techniques, and that’s just with my lecture notes. Not only am I extensively trained in typology, but I have access to every edition of the American Psychiatric Association's DSM, I-V, and I will use them to their full extent to wipe your miserable complex from the collective unconscious, you little constructionist. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” metatruth was about to bring down upon your hierarchy, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you bloody Newtonian. I will shit synchronicity all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, Bucko
There's nothing to understand. Postmodernism is pure shite.
Nobody understands postmodernism. It's meaningless jargon.
Postmodern exerpts:
>If one examines neocapitalist narrative, one is faced with a choice: either
accept precultural discourse or conclude that language is capable of social
comment, given that Batailleist `powerful communication’ is valid. Any number
of theories concerning neocapitalist narrative may be found. However, the
characteristic theme of the works of Gaiman is the failure, and hence the
economy, of capitalist sexual identity.
>“Society is intrinsically dead,” says Bataille. The subject is
contextualised into a neocapitalist narrative that includes truth as a paradox.
Therefore, von Ludwig[2] holds that we have to choose
between Sartreist absurdity and modern objectivism.
>“Class is part of the economy of truth,” says Foucault; however, according
to Pickett[3] , it is not so much class that is part of the
economy of truth, but rather the futility, and subsequent meaninglessness, of
class. The main theme of Abian’s[4] analysis of
neocapitalist narrative is the role of the artist as writer. Thus, Bataille
uses the term ‘Sartreist absurdity’ to denote the paradigm of subtextual
reality.
Have you read his piece on complexity? Its compelling but reductionist.
>we have been conditioned to see a simple coherent world :. We can only live in a world in which everything is flattened
Its ideological in that it presupposes conservatism
Postmodernity is a condition. We can no longer pretend that there is a universal truth. People like JP are the death rattles of a modernity that never was
>lurk /lit/
lmao no, fucking brainlets
>"On Postmodernism," by Roger Scruton
"There are philosophers who have repudiated the goal of truth -- Nietzsche, for example, who argued that there are no truths, only interpretations. But you need only ask yourself whether what Nietzsche says is true, to realize how paradoxical it is. (If it is true, then it is false! -- an instance of the so-called 'liar' paradox.) Likewise, the French philosopher Michel Foucault repeatedly argues as though the 'truth' of an epoch has no authority outside of the power-structure that endorses it. There is no trans-historical truth about the human condition. But again, we should ask ourselves whether that last statement is true: for if it is true, it is false. There has arisen among modernist philosophers a certain paradoxism which has served to put them out of communication with those of their contemporaries who are merely modern. A writer who says that there are no truths, or that all truth is "merely relative," is asking you not to believe him. So don't. -- Roger Scruton, Modern Philosophy: An Introduction and Survey (Penguin Press, 1995), pp. 5-6.
This is the exact same definition that JP uses becuase it is the correct one. It really is a sad sign of leftists that they have no better point but mere falsehood
Your average post modern dribbler at university is the feminist in your social anthro class telling you your western ideals are all ethnocentric social constructs but also says we should stop genital mutilation in africa. Because its not like you used a socially constructed value system to deduce that the practice is bad or anything.
Nobody understands anything. We just say the same words, shake each others dicks and act like everything is ok
>too dumb to Enlighten
>become nihilist
many such cases
The crux of postmodernism is "truth". Pointless mental masturbation that gives answers, goes nowhere and adds absolutely nothing. All it creates is massive societal problems today because of fucking deluded teachers filled the head of kids with relativist nonsense.
>There is no trans-historical truth
>There is no trans
TRIGGERED
Oh how the leaf has fallen.
This is philosophy 101. Paradox =\= incorrect. Look at Kants antimonies.
>go to the store and pick up some milk
You can debate that statement is meaningless, but we understand it well enough for it to be useful. If you say that, and the person you're talking to understands and agrees, you will have milk.
Uhh...so random anecdotal generalization counts for what?
Looks like the lefties making Peterson threads finally broke down and are showing their real intentions kek
Philosophy beyond a few classes here and there really fucks you up. Look at JP, hes like a deer in headlights. He is just now challenged by actual thinkers that came from this degenerate chan, and holy shit he crumbles like a dried leaf.
so you've never actually watched Peterson?
he acknowledges that everything can have infinite interpretations, his issue is with reframing of everything as powerstruggle of narratives oppressed vs uppressors and rejection of any objective truth and science
and rejection of universal truth is non-viable for human existence and coexistence, that's the main point
The societal crisis of truth and meaning precedes postmodern philosophy. Theyre just drawing attention to it
link please? To my understanding he isn't enamored with any ideals of universal truth, he states openly that we function mainly as reducing agents incapable of interacting with the world "as it is" and so champions " the highest ideal " or " as true as you can get ". Still vague obviously but better than " there is no truth so do whatever ", the negative social repercussions of such thinking are generally referred to as " modern culture ".
Okay, so pragmatism is a whole philosophical field, which is cool. But?
That's because POMO is incomprehensible. You ever read Lyotard or Lacan? Come on man, those guys aren't saying anything.
No fault of Jordan Peterson.
counts for the revelation that most of its proponents don't actually understand what they are doing. " Your opinions are invalid because x, I used the same value functions to come to my opinions but they are valid because unicorn "
Seems like the shills have finally succeeded in turning Sup Forums against Peterson. Good job you gullible fucks
>Have i watched him?
Have you read him?
His 'academic' work is weak. Anyone can make a bunch of claims on spewtube
But now it intersects with biology and science. Like.. NO. STOP. Biological facts, scientific findings are what they are. Facts and findings.
I forgot never try to debate a postmodernist
>Look at X
Not an argument, your out
one counter-argument was all it took
Noone can handle the SCRUTON
I agree to a point. His criticism of Derrida is not accurate. Peterson misses the point that Derrida is an individualist and not a collectivist. He also misses the distinction between "post-modernist," who are just rehashed critical theorist/ Maoists and the post-structuralist who are hyperindividualist.
What pisses me off about professors, in general, is the lack of individual intellectual ethics.
Derrida, Foucault and Baudrillard are critical of mass societies, centralized power and normies.
They are all existentialist, and the asshat professors in humanities departments and social science departments use the arguments of post-structuralist but then just have modernist authoritarian solutions. That would make these great philosophers roll in their graves.
In the end, Peterson relies on normativity while claiming to be an individualist. These two viewpoints are not compatible.
He is a Jungian psychologist. There are a lot of good ideas about personality disposition in Jungian theory.
I am a post-structuralist/existential psychologist. We look at the world and our clients fundamentally differently.
Pretty good
psycnet.apa.org
The underlying argument here is that conservatism is good from a psychological perspective. Again, its reductionist
Just because you dont understand doesnt mean theres nothing there. Start with Schopenhauer and work forward
Cite Foucault directly, or are you just a low power undergrad???
cheers, I read and come back.
agreed. Physicist have already acknowledged this. Why are the social sciences so far behind??
Think Kuhn
>its another anti-peterson thread where all the anti-peterson shills slowly out themselves as the commies they are.
Enjoy your bubble. Keep following whatever ideology makes you comfortable
Just because he thinks some liberal bullshit is nonsense it does not mean he 'doesn't understand' it.
it doesnt take me to the paper, just the search section. key words?
>start with Nietzche
Umm how about start with the Greeks sweetie
>what is the scientific method
>what are paradigm shifts
Most highly cited academic in uTor but okay.
A lot of these "logical fallacies" are perfectly valid arguments.
Yeah guys jordon Peterson is our enemy........
(((Who))) could be behind this obvious divide and conquer?
Or someone who has read a book
Heres the thing, he was, and still is a respected academic in some ways but lately his stuff has been bordering on paranoia.
I can't help but feel we are witnessing a very public nervous breakdown, something is wrong with him.
Also yes, his understanding of 'postmoderism' is strange
>the "read a book" tell for not having read any books
Nobody understands it, because it's inherently contradictory and hypocritical. Anybody that holds postmodernist views is an idiot, 100% of the time.
t. Ira Wells
Sorry, but he does.
quillette.com
This person doesn't even necessarily like Peterson but at least they're honest.
>18 posts by this ID
Plato and Aristotle are the fundementals for the individualist/collectivist arguments.
Funny how Peterson does acknowledge the thread that links Aristotle to Aquinas to Nitsche to Foucault to Derrida.
All virtue ethicists. All individualist.
I really don't see how you can be an individualist and use reductionism/essentialism at the same time
This user gets it
but the shill is you (because you pretend this thread didn't make op blow some cock)
I don't give much fuck about him, but he's a smart kid who make some good points, I have to give him this.
>No one at UofT takes this clown seriously...
Sources? He seems fairly fucking prolific at his university.
If Peterson doesn't tow the Jew line of anti-racism he's done for... his life, job, followers etc. You guys want people to ruin their lives over a single topic while you talk in anonymity. The hypocrisy is real.
Exactly this. Kuhn basically says it all and way more clearly than most others
fuck you kuhn, you never contributed anything.
I think the common thread that leads from existential individualism to authoritarianism is the postmodern "realization" that power flows from culture and so everyone needs to be inculcated with "social science" solutions to life. The relativists in this thread are already rabid about anyone who claims their deconstruction is intellectual wankery. They believe it is the final word of logic on human nature, and since social institutions are structured according to people's symbolism, the struggle for power lies in this domain.
What bubble? the one where the inconsistencies of the vast majority of those who subscribe to pomo are on display ? think ill keep it. Im unsure as to what your issue was in the first place as the problem wasn't with the philosophy but the retarded ends to which the average spaz uses it. You cant make claims about the inherent equality of all interpretation because of subjectivity and then attach value assessment to others. Especially while you decry ethnocentric value assesment while making ethnocentric value assesment.
Psychological entropy peterson in google scholar
Because popular = correct?
True, but only a real post-modernist shall be able to construct a superior objectivity through those lesser opinions.
>attract attention on controversial, but largely inconsequential Clown World issue
>”wow a lot of these right-wing buckos looking into me, I wonder how I can make them buy my books and personality tests”
>”I know, I’ll dogwhistle to them by talking about “Post-Modern Neo-Marxists a whole bunch”
>”They’ll think naturally that I mean the Jews”
>”Silly buckos, it was THE FRENCH”
>”Welp, looks like I’m almost a million a year now, time to sanitize”
>Deplatform Faith Goldy from a FREE SPEECH event
>Weasel out instead of giving an answer
>Race is a social construct, but you’re jealous of the Jews high IQ
>That’s Doctor Peterson to you, cucko
The Eternal Boomer
This is pretty close. Maybe one or two too many ‘maggot/kid/bloody newtonian’ attacks in there for such a short piece, but it’s incredibly accurate.
>teamwork is just another form of collectivism bucko
>hey please refer to my proper honorific boyo
>white doesnt exist because i cant think of a definition for it kiddo
>all my friends happen to be jewish, what a strange (((coincidence))), oh well wont look into it further
>his work is weak
>it just is, trust me
Nobody has turned anyone against anyone. Most of these threads are shills replying to shills. JP is doing fine.
Then donate more minerals to his patreon so he can research it, bucko
What’s with the leftist trolls lately?
>D
If you look at social science uses normativity (normies) as a metric, then you have a 20-60-20 paradigm. I think that is where Peterson's target group is heading. He is appealing to the 60% that fall in the normative range. His messages are not for the people outside of that range who tend to be more individualistic.
Unfortunately, the academic standards for graduate school have become laughable. And so-called academics in liberal arts have never picked up a philosophy book or dared to think for themselves.
Are you saying he’s a collectivist
Nobody is saying he needs to go full 1488. That said, I do expect him to not be intellectually dishonest while parroting leftist talking points (proving the lack of thought he has put in the subject matter). Being condescending towards valid points without refutation (Kevin MacDonald tweet) and finally his refusal to even discuss these issues (Faith Goldy, Woes) is a cowardly betrayal of his own values that absolute truth and honest dialogue before all...Except radical individualism apparently.
JorPor came out on Twitter saying that if you're proud of your race you don't have anything else to be proud of, unless you're a Jew.
We are not endorsing the alt right now.
By the way postmodernism it's aesthetic, not a fundamental valid theory.
Attacking post modernism it's like attacking a race, because "i don't like brown people".