How did the USSR modernise as quickly as it did if communism doesn't work...

How did the USSR modernise as quickly as it did if communism doesn't work? What explains the rapid growth from a weak monarchy to a world superpower?
I'm not a shill or an infiltrator, I'm currently debating a socialist.

Russian ascendancy was in motion since the late 17th century, gommies simply rode the wave until they crashed it into the fucking ground.

Because these people tend to forget about USSR post-Stalin or Yugoslavia or Hungary when they talk about how Communism = automatically shit. All very modern states.

Stalin went off script and played the game harder than anyone

Because the USSR was State capitalism.

AHAHAHAHahaahHAhah.

It was total shit. More backward to the West than North Korea.

>no capitalist class existed
>but this is capitalism!

Russia had one of the largest economies in the world pre-revolution, the Revolution largely damaged or shrank its economy, and over similar time periods the USSR's economy simply couldn't match the growth rates of capitalist countries.
To go from the largest grain producing country in the world to needing to import grain en masse is just pathetic.

I guess an actual Russian would know better than a commieboo faggot.

Can I get some more info on that, a source or something?

Were any socialist principles such as collective ownership and elimination of private property responsible for Stalin 'playing the game harder'?

Source or more info please?

How bad was it after end of the USSR?

Are you serious? Is that a real question?

Stalin did it through a shit ton of forced labor, millions of death, famine, and theft of property.

He literally forced people to work day in day out, completing projects and he murdered millions of farmer collecting grain for the state.

Yeah it modernized at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives retard.

This is actually the correct answer. You'll probably have to ignore the other retarded answers you'll get from other posters.

Russia was actually hailed as the factory of Europe for a long time (post 1850) because of a few things
Cheap workers
Large tracts of land = cheap factories
A overzealous secret police (fun fact: the secret police actually conducted several assassinations in order to get close to rebel groups)
A monarchy that was very close to other European powers
And a couple more (I'm sure my good anime can fill in a few of the blanks)

The fact remains that Russia actually had millions of pounds and Francs and marks flowing into the economy to build factories and shit. Which obviously stopped when the commies nationalised everything and the investors didn't get their share.
Commies ruin everything.
T. Lecturer of history at university

Lmao even in ww1 a massive amount of Russians lived in Middle Ages tier poverty and technology

Less than 60 years before the revolution Russia still had serf/slaves bound to tracts of land that were sold with the land


Yes truly the innovator and factory of Europe, as long as that factory is popping out illiterate retards

Because in a practical sense, communism turns it's citizens into slaves under ownership of the state.

When you can enslave your entire nation, and your goal is modernization, you can accomplish it - especially if it occurs shortly after communism has been implemented, when the people haven't lost faith in it yet, and there's still lots of stolen bourgeois wealth to spend.

This doesn't change the fact that communism is inhumane and unsustainable.

And I agree with the sentiment that capitalism is shit, desu. But if capitalism is shit, communism is sphincter-burning diarrhea.

Stalin didn't murdered millions of farmers. Famine of early 30's was in result of combined factors - the crop failure, uncompetency of local authorities, many of which were hidden opposition and was later arrested for sabotage. Also farmers failed the next crop harvest, butchered the cattle and rot the existing grain, accidentally or intentionally, trying to trying to put pressure on the government to raise the purchase price of bread.

>Typical leaf post
Fuck I hate Canadians so fucking much. Talking to me, lecturer on early 20th century history, about serf and land holdings. If you were here I would grab your feet and put a hook through them. Then I would hoist you up and just beat the shit outta you. Fucking Canadians. The worst posters on this board. Worse than fucking Indians or T*rks.

>Serf and land holdings
Yes, it definitely was still in that stage but Russia was experiencing an industrial boom like no other. Stats show that Russia had a bigger industrial revolution than England (not per capita but in terms of low skilled workers mobilised). Russia was the original China.
>Serf
I'm actually gonna address this as well because you're a fucking leaf. Serfdom was outlawed like 2 monarchies before in an effort to become more like western Europe

Modernize*

Euro fags

Smh

Terrors and gulags, when Stalin died and this shit stopped, USSR started his way into damnation, and ended in 1991.

>Terrors and gulags
>implying those are bad things

Yes, and you forgot American imperialist agents that sabotaged everything. Oh, and correlation of Saturn and Mars was unfavorable.

I know you're being feed by your propaganda, but really, you're that stupid?

Heavy/War industries were the key

Powerful military needs soldiers, artillery/armor/planes which need mining and in war time can be produced practically without limit

Once the war boom ended by the end of the 50s it became clear the Soviet economy was severely deficient in consumer goods

It is true that Stalin in particular built up the USSR to be very powerful, but millions died to make it happen

Go drink som bagged milk you faggot. Oh and your women are fat

>Fuck I hate Canadians so fucking much.
KEK
Here's one for your files if you don't have it

>but really, you're that stupid?

STALIN DINDU NUFFIN!

North Korean economy is pretty much booming despite a gorrilion sanctions.
Just look at the Pyongyang construction boom Imao

How did the USSR modernise as quickly as it did if communism doesn't work

By literally sacrificing millions of people
Take for instance Stalin starving millions of Ukranians to death in order to force them to abandon traditional and join the collective.

Read Russia's War by Overy

They got some German Scientists after the war.

yeah and how did they win the war against those german scientists?

God you are a such an autistic nigger.

everyone got them
esp. you, murrifat niggers

Because they kept the public at a 1920 level of living until the 1970s

hell no

By copying everything from a locomotive to an airplane.
Not one Russian invention except Krokodile.

>Mfw the ak is legitimately a more effective military firearm

tetris nigga

Got the good ones for sure.

same reason the u.s. became very rich. >slavery
forcing people to work for 1 breadloaf a day can really save up enough to build some nice missiles. but the quality of life was shit, like the roarin 20s on steroids

Building 25,000 tanks

>modernize

lold

Slavery didn’t make the US rich. Slavery held us back. Remember the South was a lot poorer than the north despite slavery. This is because slavery is not nearly as profitable as normal wage employment, plus slavery enervates entire societies

Than what an SKS?
Try the MG42 as the godfather of the M60 240b and SAW 249.
Even the Moisan Nagant was a bad copy of a K98 Mauser.
Russia invented NOTHING.
Except Krokodile.

>trying to trying to put pressure on the government to raise the purchase price of bread
so communism killed them

>le "stg=ak" meme
Oh, I see
>Even the Moisan Nagant was a bad copy of a K98 Mauser.
How can one man be so uneducated

The US became rich from smart white guys building machinery and the Industrial revolution.
NigNogs have ALWAYS cost too much money, and they didnt build shit.

lemme rephrase, it made the part of the U.S. that mattered rich. original southerners moved to the midwest and made it decent. current southerners are albino niggers/irish which should have been genocided

The economics of slavery are not as best as you think
>Did a 30 page research paper on the economics of slavery in Louisiana

With the end of the slave trade, slaves became incredibly expensive because of limiting supply. Without intervention slaves in the us south would have been economically obsolescent by the 1890s because of growing industrialization and new farm machinery.

Slaves in general were a capital intensive and risky investment in many parts of the upper south by the 1860

Moving the goalpost?

First of all, Russian empire wasn't as backwards as you think. Industrialization already started there.
Secondly, bolsheviks were incompetent. They couldn't even run existing plants, let alone build something new. It was with West(mostly USA) technologies, equipment and specialists they were able to industrialize, in exchange for resources. Like why do you think famines happened? Because of grain consfiscation. And where did it go? It was exported to the West...
And it's not some conspiracy theory. It's an open info, literally in US archives. Just an example Gorky plant, built by Ford. Look it up.

If you think communism works invite 15 people in your house to live and then tell them to pay what they want in rent.

The problem with Communism and Socialism is that in order to full industrialize a nation you need to control all factors, which requires....a dictator.

The idea is that once the industrialization is complete, everyone in power steps down and gives the power back to the people. in theory, it should work. In practice...they never step down and keep building the government in to a fascist entity.

That's why it never works. Human greed.

>What is lend lease
>What is reverse engineering

Surfdom was outlawed in 1861 and ww1 was less than one full generation away from that time and yet somehow this Australian (((intellectual))) thinks that in 61 years they took literally illiterate farmers and turned them into the population to envy across Europe.... just wow buddy

You don’t have a degree and you don’t have a monopoly on Russian history, in fact you have a very shitty grasp of it to ultimately justify your modern political leanings, you are no better than a SJW communist faggot eating at McDonald’s

If you would like to learn actual Russian history I’ll teach you once you send me a pic of your foot through that LARPing hook of yours

>Stalin starving millions of Ukranians
I fucking hate western propaganda. Millions of non-ukrainians died too, including Russians. And Kazakhs suffered most of all, if you take percentages and not nominal numbers. Why can't it be just peasants of soviet citizens, no it's only Ukrainians.

>word superpower
>the whole power is literally 2 million peasants with PPsh'es and nukes built out of stolen US technology everything else is utter shit
>no economy, everyone poor as fuck
>literaly start to crumble as soon as the war ends and crashes only 46 years later

axaxaxaxa

Kys, you dumb amerigoy.

Surpassing the shithole that was Tsarist Russia was incredibly easy.

By stealing everything. And with the help of the liberal traitors from the west. 90% of their so called innovations in their factories were obtained by theft, from the west. Millions died from disease and hunger because some shills to have a budget to spend in the west, and buy a lot of junk. Read Pacepa and Bezmenov - they have plenty of examples at hand.

Russian officials killed all the elites, or they simply left the country. That's the reason now they don't have tier 1 intellectuals to find solutions at their problems. Same thing happened in Eastern Europe as well.

Another uneducated retard.

Why are you so angry Slav bro...

Because USA literally created USSR industries prior to WW2, making that failed state a rival to Germany. There were tens of thousands of Americans who came here to build factories under Stalin, a fact that both Russian and American historians love to forget, because it does not fit the narrative.

It is said that a benevolent autocrat can do for a nation what dozens of elected governments can't do. The way communist revolutions work garranties that if not benevolent then motivated and willing to work people are that "well meaning" autocrat.

And it's not that weird, revolution in itself happens only when there is certain consensus in the society. It usually includes strong will to make ones country better. Motivation for a bloody revolution takes a few decades to wind down and after that everybody knows what happens to countries who achieve sudden progress through zeal and not proper values and work ethics.

Their stubborness killed them.

Strawman as is.

Strawman and
>isn't an argument

>(((Russian))) officials

You know what i'm not seeing in your post you fucking leaf? An argument or sources.

I just gave an example.. You are absolutely right

Cause they had fucking infinite slave labour.

Not that hard to get shit done when you don't spend not just on salaries, but on basic survival needs of the workers. They'd just send them to the north to drill ice without proper clothing and food. The prisoners would drill for a few days and then die and commies would just replace them with a new party of freshly prosecuted seditious belligerents.

Commies are animals, don't debate them, just shoot them on sight.

US built about 3000 factories for USSR in 30s and US engineers made sure they were running well.
That's why.

You don’t see the argument because you are retarded

Most of Russia was made up of a lower class

Russia had basically two noteworthy cities by ww1 a capital and a former capital

Russia had a ruling monarchy and a very large serf base

These serfs are literally treated more like objects for farming than people

Aussie retard says that somehow these actual human tractors were educated and the envy of Europe by ww1, this is false

Russia revolted because by the time Lenin arrived the population was too stupid to understand why it was important to fight, the communists saw this and made things simple

HEY RETARDED SERFS HERES THE DEAL OK, LAND-BREAD-PEACE and half of them struggled to get that concept

Oh ya Russia was a huge economy oh ya totally brooooo (because it helps his argument in 2017)

Nope, there you go sumi

You're acting like they built them for free. The USSR paid handsomely for every one of those factories.

So? This is the answer why it modernized so quickly. Rob your people and buy everything abroad.

Maybe it is bad, but we becomed powerful enough to defeat 3rd Reich.

Because we live in a consumer market.

Take for example uber, a bunch of people saw a bunch of unused cars and diced to make an app, or for example bitcoint, an anonymouse guy developed the bitcoint protocol and the revolutionary block-chain(le meme coint abstain to reply). Both of this thing will never come to exist under a 5 year plan, become they come from the individe and no burocract will work out something similar.

>How did the USSR modernise as quickly as it did if communism doesn't work?

You know that roads and bridges are central planed to this day right? In the same way you can central plan a steel factory to build the next steel factory until everybody has starved and you have a gorilion tons of steel, for no real use.

Muh means of production.

Now the means of production are super accessible. The most powerful mean of production is a computer which can compile code and you can get one for $100 in your nearest pawnshop.

Not only US engineers, but german and british as well. The first two famines in USSR were caused by exporting all the grain to the west in exchange for machine tools for heavy industry because it was believed that it is the future.
Planned economies are destined to play catch-up because they are more efficient at funnelling resources in a specific direction, but nobody knows what the right direction is until it is already too late. That's why post-industrial revolution never happened in USSR - the state was run by senile 80-year olds who were raised under the dogma of heavy industry supremacy while computer industry, new polymer materials, crop selection and robotics were booming in the west.

>Aussie retard says that somehow these actual human tractors were educated and the envy of Europe by ww1, this is false

He actually literally did not say that. Sure looks like a straw man to me bucko.

the political elite had complete control of the means of production and used it to exploit the workers

You did not defeat the reich alone, and you could not have defeated the reich alone.

We defeated their main forces and conquered the Europe.

going to need a source on that

Present a source or reason I should trust you. You're spouting ANTIFA tier drivel.

You can’t dispute a single thing I said but hey at least you have your dank memes right?

I feel bad for you, but not a whole lot

it didnt modernize quickly. it threw everything into military and decades after the berlin wall fell people are still trying to catch up

You can read about it in wiki. 80% of population were peasants.

...

Yeah I’m sure antifa comes to their protests with “serfs were free in 1861” t shirts and “PEACE LAND BREAD was so easy a tractor could understand it!” signs

Do you fat idiots even think before you post anymore?

Sheer ruthlessness, turns out that isn't a sustainable strategy.

It's not robbing your people if your people benefit from those factories. What do you think they produced? They made tractors to increase food production, machinery to increase industrial production, electric wiring to provide people electricity in rural areas, medical equipment to provide people healthcare.

Try living in a non-industrialized country like Honduras or Jamaica and then come back and tell me about how industrializing your country is "robbing your people"

russian empire ws not weak monarchy. it had 4th economy in the world and biggest golden reserves. it had highest growth among industrial nations because it was not as developed as west.

ussr was able to get to RE level of economy only in middle of 1930s.

ussr wasted russian demographic potential and russian gold on useless projects to promote communism. then ussr collapsed because it run out of gold and fertility

By guzzeling American cum and taking a lend lease up their faggot asses like good commie dogs?

>Communists come on this board preaching
>encounter actual Russians
>get BTFO

There are entire series of books in russian on this topic. During 1920ties USSR was using German depression to build german plants in USSR, during 30ties american engineers were building further USSR industry.
>"V. I. Lenin, Leon Trotsky, and Joseph Stalin all opted for technological America. One of the momentous and almost forgotten chapters of modern history concerns the Bolsheviks’ fierce determination between the two world wars to adopt the industrial legacy of the United States: to re-create the steel mills of Gary, Indiana, behind the Urals; to duplicate Ford’s River Rouge plant in Nizhni Novgorod; to erect a copy of the great dam and generators of Muscle Shoals, Alabama, on the falls of the Dnieper River—all using American methods and American engineers, planners, and managers. Few Americans today can identify Frederick W. Taylor, the father of scientific management, but he and Henry Ford and other modern American industrialists and engineers influenced Soviet history deeply and permanently. For the Bolsheviks in the 1920s, Fordism plus Taylorism equaled Americanism. And Americanism, in that sense, was crucial to the success of the communist state."

...

Your argument is that the aussie said the serfs were doing great and they were educated which they were not and this is why he is wrong etc, he never made that statement to begin with so i don't know what to do with you, i guess you're not a native leaf and your reading comprehension is not up to par.
I said you could not do it alone you durak, you received 660 billions worth of lend lease from the amies alone, not even counting the anglos contribution, not even counting the armed forces of the other allies. Without their help your nation would have been totally annexed by 1944 at the latest.

I thought that masses of poor peasants/workers is a blessing when you want to industrialise.

it didnt modernise quickly at all. it quicky lagged behind everyone else. even thought the ussr dedicated everyting to military they still had an absolutely terrible KD ratio against the germans who fought many other countries while USA had a KD ratio above 1

this is also why they lost the cold war due to collapse while the USA prospered

unironically this

Naziboo finn still can’t disprove anything I’ve said and has to try and play semantics

You know the Nazis only used Finland and would have raped you (((people))) as soon as Russia was out of the way, r-right user?

Lmao

>Russia my son you have 56 factories in your country

>do you choose skilled workers?
>or do you choose tens of millions of illiterate slave farmers??

Yes they must have truly been an asset