so what does Sup Forums think of Universal Basic Income (UBI)?
no specifics needed, just as a general attitude, assuming that the point is for it to be enough such that anyone would have enough for very basic needs
so not huge amounts to push everyone to what is currently middle-class levels
When the robot revolution happens, we have to. We also have to take care not to create an idiocracy with the super high productivity the RR brings.
Until then, only lazy good for nothing useless eaters want UBI.
Just jews being jews. More people dependent on the government, more freedoms ceded to the powers that be, exactly what (((they))) want.
One time supporter, but now realize it's a slippery slope. We've got enough programs in place for people with brains and initiative to make it. It takes the grind of the stone to make the knife sharp.
>only lazy good for nothing useless eaters want UBI
the people who would benefit from UBI don't have any work in the first place
so what makes you say that?
and what do you want user?
is it better to give everything to the (((corporations))) like we do now?
society wide welfare slavery that will ultimately create a permanent underclass within 1-2 generations that firmly believe all money comes directly from government handouts, creating a sub-race of economically illiterate manchildren.
What do you 'give' corporations? The government produces 'NOTHING' and takes money from its' citizens. The nanny state paradigm public school indoctrinated you with is to keep unaccountable politicians employed, period.
Objectively inherently dysgenic.
As robotics become more and more advanced, nearly every single job on Earth will become automated. Once work becomes unavailable to the vast majority of humans, UBI will become more viable.
Rather a progressive income tax that starts from a negative percentage. Should be doable in the near future, though it would need quite large investments into the tax infrastructure.
>The government produces 'NOTHING'
hospitals
roads
the entire process infrastructure that a society is based on
laws
police
fire department
whatever other public safety
public transport
fairly comfy safety net if you're poor
fairly comfy safety net if you're an idiot
comfy safety net if your family or whoever was supporting you dies all of a sudden
education, the whole thing that got you into the job you have
I know it's difficult for you to see this since you barely have anything like that without paying extra, but in civilized countries the government actually gives plenty back for the taxes you pay
>the government produces NOTHING
Roads
Schools
Justice system
Police
Firefighters
Defense
National parks
>tfw user believes in government efficiency
The government typically gives out bidless contracts to their cronys and pay 10x what the actual cost is.
I can tell you're an uninformed kid now that I read more closely. Government is not you friend. The word literally means "mind control'.
It is for slaves, just like welfare is.
The purpose of it is to condition you into dependence and apathy.
Sounds good in theory but in practice it will simply cause inflation in equal amount to the distributed income everyone gets. If its given only to poor people its just welfare and distorts the market. You can't have a gibs system that works without distorting the market.
NEET here. As automation takes over we have to implement it, otherwise the economy will come to a crashing halt if no one buys goods or services from the economy.
oh fuck I forgot about parks
yea just about all nature is taken care of almost entirely by the public sector from what I know
that's a really shitty comeback even for this board user holy shit
there is just about no base to that claim, at least not to the extent you imply it is done
but so basically your saintly corporations are taking even more money from the government than they should in the first place, so they are quite literally the cause of the whole issue
ah and then after sweaty insecurity took over you resorted to a lightweight ad hominem, great stuff user!
Opkankeren zandneger
>Buy one bitcoin
>Get 1000 per month
There's your "UBI", it's called "investing".
What I want is the freedom of all citizens to succeed or to fail based on their merits. If you can provide a service worth something to someone, you should reap the rewards. If you are a lazy pile of human refuse demanding a share of my money while providing nothing in return, my answer is a big fuck you.
Of course, is correct in that eventually automation will reach such a level that the available job pool will be incredibly small and even then the only available jobs will be highly specialized. At that stage, UBI is more or less necessary. Until that stage is reached, those clamoring for UBI are a pack of lazy welfare-niggers that, far from being grateful for the gifts they are being given, insist that they DESERVE said gifts due to some kind of victimhood/oppression inherent in "the system". My answer remains a big fuck you.
I want free money so yes
>t. Ancap who doesn't realize how shitty his life wpuld be if the police were privatized
Fucking retarded idea by complete idiots living in a dream world.
The real solution to fix our basic needs is to kill off half the world population or so (and not in the west obviously) so that we can live more sustainable lifestyles.
I support it but it can't be implemented with open borders. Get ready for everyone in the world rush to your country
The point is it is taxed back from the people who don't need it. It's supposed to limit the distortions caused by the gibs to the poor, since it will always be beneficial for them to go to work. The classic style gibs to the poor result in very high marginal tax rates for people with a low productivity, since you lose almost the same amount of gibs that you make money from your work.
this
it'll happen (hopefully) when robots can handle most all of the required production for survival
lay off the adderall kid and realize how ignorant you sound.
I think the only thing I'm willing to donate to commies and other socialist trash for free is a rope or bullet.
Earn your own wage and back off from mine, you lazy worthless parasites.
Worker here. Get off your ass and stop making excuses. Create a business that uses automation to generate revenue for yourself.
naturally as our economic power increases, our power to give without consequence shall also increase
There is no alternative to hard work. Investing is just code for "stealing from your neighbours or grandchildren." The only value to be found on cryptos is the thousands of grease balls spamming every forum possible with bitcoin propaganda. It is literally the same think investment bankers do with stocks, but far, far more volatile.
Shit will pop. Those you got in early will get rich. Those you got in late will loose everything and kill themselves.
I wont do be doing either because I'm not a thieving pseudo jew.
The problem remains that its wide distribution will drive up prices to the point it becomes unlivable. It will distort the labor market by driving down wages exactly by that value, and then companies will expect you to collect your UBI check to make up the cost saving difference. Certainly not as bad as traditional gibs which distorts labor but still bad.
Yes of course, the answer is to have EVERY CITIZEN start his own business. Brilliant, why didn't I think of that??
Wow. Amazing comeback.
Not yet! Too many people automation and UBI will be introduced after the great war when one law world wide is established.
>Implying the NS and busses are actually good here
Top kek
m8 your country is already giving me free money and I'm not even black kek
it's just that you people don't bother using the great education your country provides, so slavs come and take your high-paying jobs instead
such is life kaasbro
maakt mij geen reet uit oetz
UBI explained in one picture
In the end, it a welfare state that enourages you to work and discourages slacking off will work better.
Reminder UBI is communism.
>When the robot revolution happens, we have to.
hi mr reading his script
you never have to accept lying language that presents the idea government creates anything
a public dividend paid by taxing corporations for fair use of the public commons will do just fine without any idiot commentary about government trying to provide anything
government is only able to provide waste and nothing else
It would work in a white ethnostate or a strong first-world monoculture like Japan.
It will not work in most countries nowadays because of the demographics.
Robots will vastly change the viability of the subject in the future, but that same change will turn 99% of the population into serfs who get enough money to barely survive while living in a communal household.
UBI encourages work more than traditional welfare since their is never a disincentive to choose between working or losing benefits (the welfare trap)
t. brainlet
>Reminder UBI is communism.
so is the heath care plan provided to members of congress, as well as all systems of banking and christianity
Solomon was the first communist
Robots take over all the jobs, no more jobs left for the 8 billion people. Either we cull a large portion of our population (Niggers and Spics like myself) or UBI is inevitable
>UBI encourages work more than traditional welfare since their is never a disincentive to choose between working or losing benefits
yes but it presents a false narrative where the idea that government produces something it then provides to the people is a dangerous one
a public dividend is a far better solution
>robbits take all jobs
No they won't.
It shouldn't be livable in the first place. It should only make the marginal tax rate more stable. So unless you have a real reason not to work (e.g. a disability), it would only make it so that you won't lose anything if you go to work and therefore the 10$/hour would really be close to 10$, not something like 2$. The basic income model isn't perfect, but it is probably the simplest way to achieve this sort of negative tax effect.
The more I read about UBI the more I like it. It wouldn't be a comfortable existence living on UBI alone, You'd probably have to share an apartment, live with relatives, or live in a communal apartment. But that's the point. Its enough money to be survivable- but not all that comfortable.
- UBI would clear up a lot of administrative costs. A lot of welfare spending goes to government workers in administrative costs.
- I think fewer people would be "employed" dealing drugs if UBI were in place. Street drug dealers make less than minimum wage. I don't think they would be out there dealing drugs if they were given some money.
- UBI would put a lot of money back into local economies. The retail apocalypse is happening because of a lack of money.
>government is only able to provide waste and nothing else
Tell that to the national parks service. If you ever visit the grand canyon, just be glad there aren't billboards and stripmalls littering the landscape.
UBI - (((communism))) through (((capitalism))). I can only get behind UBI if the recipients are required to do Universal Basic Work. Report to a UBW center full of stationary bikes and treadmills that feed the power grid.
Ubi
>give everyone 500 bucks
Result
>everything cost more
Requirements
>increase ubi
Result
>everything costs even more
Fucking idiotic concept.
I think its pretty much guaranteed there will be a Universal Basic Income within the next 10 years or so in America. The wealth that the 1% maintains is staggering. By taxing them down, we can sustain and educate MILLIONS of US families on a few hundred bucks a week.
AI is a meme. Robots cannot do human work.
Capitalism and welfare for the people, bailouts, tax shelters and communism for the wealthy.
It's the Republican way.
>roads
>private roads do not exist
In the US, all of the railroads were private until Amtrak. Most rails and rail lines still are.
>defense
You spelled Military-Industrial Complex wrong.
>so what does Sup Forums think of Universal Basic Income (UBI)?
Considering it would get rid of welfare, food stamps and unemployment, I think it would be a money saver over all.
Slavs are niggertier
That's literally the economie explained in 1 picture though, not just UBI
UBI only works in high functioning countries with stable, homogeneous populations.
If we had National Socialism, it would work fantastically. Realistically, the only places in the world where I see this working are South Korea and Japan.
Stop with these threads. Get your own money you fucking niggers
Seeing as socialism inevitably leads to the collapse of the system, you cannot say that UBI "works" at all.
I'm pretty sure the economy at large gets its input from, ultimately, the sun.
With that, the economy will collapse very quickly. It is bad enough with the niggers and women on welfare.
>user is so frustrated with his obesity he wants to put the whole world on a treadmill
oh you
No thanks I already pay 40% in taxes to nig and spics
so you get 40% extra user?
A terrible idea.
If everyone has $5 more in their bank accounts each month, then all else being equal, the market merely adjusts accordingly and everything becomes $5 more expensive to match the proportional increase in demand.
Not to mention the "free" money has to come from somewhere. Meaning one or more of the following:
> Increasing the national debt (in the U.S, we're already somewhere between $165-220 Trillion of debt)
> Deflating currency (in the U.S, $1.00 in 1900 now has the purchasing power of about $0.03)
> Decreasing the incentives for productive people to be productive
if we're at a point where robots can do everything, why have a currency at all? If there no longer exist a scarcity of resources, it will be utopia.
However, this will never happen and the UBI proponents are retards.
It's not a terrible idea just because you and some communists who advocate for it don't understand it.
they can't even put a lid on illegals, how are they going to keep something like ubi from not going bankrupt? if we are going to talk about ubi lets first talk about getting rid of all these blood suckers in this country who are here illegally. We can do this without violence. We just all need to be against illegal immigration, regardless of party or partisan politics.
I know so many in LA who are not legal and just suck on benefits. I know people personally who have lived on section 8 for decades, they have managed to buy a home when it was all said and done with, gee I wonder how that happened.
Everyone else who doesn't abuse the system just gets fucked for the most part. if we had a country that could at least fight for the workers, and strong immigration laws, then we can all be fucking prosperous without even needing ubi.
fuck anybody whether democrat or republican who supports illegal immigration and still refuses to put mandatory everify.
put your money where your mouth is mr trump
what makes you think I don't understand it? was anything I said wrong?
>was anything I said wrong?
Pretty much all of it. The basic idea is not creating money from thin air but removing much of the bureaucracy involved in social security payments and give people with low productivity better incentives to work while keeping the incentives of more productive people the same. There is a certain cost neutral level of basic income that can be associated with any social security benefits you might normally have and that level would probably be slightly higher.
However, it seems the main focus in the basic income discussion has been on the actual level of the basic income with the left typically trying to go for higher cost and the right for lower cost models in relation to the current system, which really isn't that relevant in regard to the actual concept of basic income.
Get off Sup Forums you commie scum. All who believe in UBI, socialism, or Communism should be sterilized.
>REEE COMMIES GET OUT
>bumps commie thred
flag of the unlikely allies ladies and gents
It would work in a homogeneous society. Spics and niggers don't need anymore free shit.
>americans think spics and nigs get anything in murika compared to yurop
get on our welfare level m80s
>economie
Typical UBI brainlet everyone. I'm ashamed to be in the same country as you.
What difference does it make?
see socialism and inflation
also, get a fucking job.
Seems inevitable, considering how quickly we are replacing jobs with automation. We're going to need to either halt technological progress for the sake of keeping people working in jobs they hate, or implement some sort of UBI so that being employed is not a requirement.
It's easy to say "if they can't get a non-automated job then fuck them, they can live on the street", but even as a selfish asshole you need to realize that this would greatly increase crime across the board.
Irrelevant. Future civilization will consist of Crypto Lords like myself ruling over the ignorant nocoiner hordes.
>we need immigration because there aren't enough people to fill the jobs
>we need UBI because all of the jobs are going to disappear
Liberals, everyone
Universal Basic Income is like Universal Health Care. They're both illusions. There is no profit in keeping the lowest rungs of society alive. Both notions are to placate the masses and distract them from depopulation tactics.
Without universal basic income we already have NEETs in society. Having universal basic income would make the problem worse.
Also it punishes productive people and rewards lazy people.
It would also slow economic growth.
In the end it would be a terrible idea,
Universal Basic Income (UBI) as trying to be implemented as test in countries is a scam, since they offer like 500 euro, which is nothing else than social benefit. The theory of UBI states that it should be salary, which enables quality life and therefore enables even enough money for person to finance own business, which is the final goal of UBI. With 500 euro per month you can even buy food and clothes, not house, especially not start own business.
Point is to replace them, UBI allows you to take more risks, like moving to another city because you don't need to be so absolutely terrified of having nothing to fall back on.
If you are worried about welfare leeches, well, they are already not working so
It's more corporate welfare. Automation creates abundance. Prices are kept high because of artificial scarcity, protectionist trade, and the fraudulent concept of "intellectual property." The biggest shills forcing the idea on the population are billionaires that made their fortune off the system, and don't want to see a future where they're irrelevant and people can make ends meet by being self sufficient and working vastly shorter weeks.
what if UBI would be paid in crypto user?
UBI and welfare is entirely capitalism you dumb faggot. Socialism doesn't has, nor needs credits, it has everything it needs. UBI is a solution to start new business and models like this exist all over the planet in form of programs to help people finance business or buy a house, literally nothing else. Problem is they pay you 500 euro instead of 10000 which should be minimum for UBI.
I suppose there is slight difference between 75% unemployment and 100% unemployment but both will result in the nation going down in flames so it's sorta academic to argue whatever robots will take all the jobs or just most of them.
A large amount of the appeal of UBI is the belief that it may remove the "welfare trap" that occurs in today's systems.
The welfare trap, being that it encourages passive/lazy behavior since welfare benefits only last as long as you don't exceed a certain income threshold. The problem being that the people on welfare don't have a significant amount of opportunity to actual increase their economic standing past what they would have received in welfare. It isn't uncommon to take a job that's above the welfare income limit but actually make less than you were on welfare.
Whether or not UBI actually works out to eliminate it is completely academic right now. Nobody has ever attempted such a thing at such a scale to give good answer of good or bad.
UBI is in work in many countries, but they pay you 500 euro per month and you can slice wooden figures as a business with that kind of money.
Thing about these people, who open receiving UBI would instantly drop out of society, is that they are probably worth pretty fuck all to the society right now.
"Hmmm yes, I make 10k per month working but thanks to UBI, I could instead live in sovietcube, eating tuna and noodles, for the rest of my life, fucking owned" said nobody ever.
Hell, it could help rehabilitate these people if they realize that they can work week or two per month and get actually reasonable chunk of extra cash and their perception of work shifts from something they hate to something that's ok
Also vaccines. I want to see free market solution to eliminating infectious diseases, since the most effective strategy is for everyone else to get vaccined except you.
It's going to replace one problem with another worse one. Right now people are just barely supported to work shitty jobs. If money is guaranteed and it's only at a point where you need to work to live a decent life, it gives total control of your life to the government and corporate colluders. It's similar to how seniors are sensitive to inflation because of social security, but since this is for working age people it can be used to coerce people in ways not possible with current welfare.
If robots take over everything it would be kind of foolish to still use money. If everything can become robotized that doesn't means it will become. What will really happen is rich people having everything robotized and you not being able to buy a robot, instead of robots repairing robots and creating everything. The goal of people is not to produce better society, the goal was always enslavement so that others are below you. How can elites feel above if robots do everything? They can't, so that solution is out of question.
I’m actually a very simple person who works 12-15 hours a week. I am even able to build savings like this, I am frugal because I value my free time over everything else.
I would absolutely drop out if given UBI. I simply don’t share the wants and desires of most consumers so I barely even spend money on something that is not consumable.