Unconditional/univerasal basic income

Unconditional/univerasal basic income.
What are your thoughts on that?
youtube.com/watch?v=kl39KHS07Xc

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ
fivethirtyeight.com/features/universal-basic-income/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

It would have to been done with planning and tact, and not just given out to whomever. Idle humans are dangerous.

yes but only for whites

Its horrible and free money turns people bad.

...

Give the money back to the people that payed

Is it called "walfare"?

>Isn't it

I don't think his research was done with a confirmation bias.

How many people here on Sup Forums would use it?
I'm thinking most. Maybe >80%

it's an awful idea on many levels. It will fuck up pesions, health care and will distribute money to a lot of people, who don't need a basic income

maybe 20%

not me though

Who's paying for?

20%? You're hilarious.

Many western countries effectively have this already. But you have to go through this whole long song and dance of exploring your health and prospects but in the end you get a certain amount of money that's meant to sustain you. So removing the whole theatre around it might not be a bad idea.

But most of the Sup Forumstards are anti-leftists, why would they use it.

>unconditional
So it will appear out of nowhere, nobody will have to pay extra taxes for it, and it won't fuck up the economy?

Most of Sup Forums are virgins but they keep telling you to have a lot of white babies. Do as they say not as they do!

Rich people.
Plus cutting from the military spendings.

Maybe is an era where robots actually take our jobs.

with extra money i would probably buy some honey baked ham and maybe some fancy licorice

When man gets free shit, he grows weak and extremely dependent on those who give him free shit, loses ability to sustain himself and falls completely under control of his "benefactor".
Welfare is precisely what reduced murrican negroes to sad state they are in now.

Jews still exist
They will raise rents and interest rates to match whatever Ubi is

>Many western countries effectively have this already.
Not so many, only Scandinavian countries.

Controlling bydlo isn't a bad thing I think.
Most of the people are useless anyway, we can't rid of them but we can sustain them so they will sit in their boongalos and watch TV or something.

>conflating UBI with communism
Stop this. UBI is bad but you don't need to be wrong about it.

>Most of the people are useless
There are billion ways to make them useful. Men are certainly not equal and some are incomparably more useful than the other, but only some clinical retards are completely incapable to make contribution. Men left just to sit, eat and shit is a wasted resource.
Moreover, man's consciousness starts to rot due to such lifestyle, this fucking site being one tremendous collection of examples to that.
>we
Are you, by chance, some high-ranked government official? Because most people here are not and have legitimate concerns regarding their governments' attempts to control them further.

With the upcoming robotization and population growth, a large number of people will become useless. Of course, the government can create loads of completely useless jobs just to keep people busy, like the Soviets did, but I don't think that's a good option.

Why? UBI shares the basic comminist idea of taking wealth from the rich and giving it to everyone.

>Not so many, only Scandinavian countries.

and they are taxed to the living shit out . most Norwegian go to other countrys to buy cars because they are cheaper lol

>With the upcoming robotization and population growth, a large number of people will become useless.

Before the industrialization most people worked the fields. After the industrialization only a small percentage of people worked in the agricultural sector.
Talking about UBI because automation will make a lot of current jobs obsolete is like talking about universal basic food back then.

If Norwegians won't give bucks to niggers then niggers will take bucks from Norwegians. With knives and guns.

That's not how it works. Yes, you can buy cars cheaper in other countries but the fees on bringing them back make up most of the difference.

Requires price controls or inflation will eat it in housing and property and up the chain that relies on products in physical locations.

Problem: democracy would be dominated by candidates promising more and more UBI every election in order to buy votes until the monthly payments reach a level of absurdity.

Thankfully, if this video is true, there is absolutely no down side to UBI and there for, there can not be a consequence for handing out too much free money. So this will be a good thing, even when the government hands out $1000000/ month to everyone, no one would be poor.

It's a conversation that deserves to be had however the potential need for such a policy is still far into the future. But it doesn't hurt to start having the conversation now. I know the principal it behind Ubi is to replace all forms of welfare with the basic income. It's not enough to live on as an adult but it's enough to get you working and keep you working. Charles Murray is a supporter of Ubi which is interesting considering he's a conservative. Instead of a focus on government, he has a focus on society and what Society should look like. Murray believes that you be I will Foster responsibility and enhance moral agency. It's interesting.

That's taxation. Communism is not high taxes. It's the goal of a stateless and classless society. Taxes just redistribute while communism and socialism are different distribution systems entirely.

Fun fact: in Russia it's much more cheaper to buy used cars in Japan even with all that costoms clearing fees, that's why 95% of the cars in the East part of the country are from Japan (even police cars).

Do you think the UBI can work in the US?

No, tens of millions of Mexican scammers here waiting to sign themselves and their ten kids (half of them imaginary) up for it.

It's a massive policy change and a massive overhaul of the entire American welfare state. I'd be less concerned about its economic feasibility than about its social impact. I think it would foster some resentment among Americans particularly those who pay taxes. It's essentially a massive income redistribution scheme which we already have but instead of narrow programs design for select groups the entire country would be a single pool.

It's a commie fag plot.

I already pay for their food stamps, cash allowances, health care, and WIC. They want a paycheck for that on my dime? Yeah, nah.

>Politicians could just promise more money

Solution: Tie it to inflation at a fixed rate, make it an amendment to the constitution that the sum can not be changed without a convention of the states.

UBI is a brilliant concept even the right should be on board with because we can use it to our advantage. Instead of the government subsidizing companies directly for things, we can instead subsidize the population and allow them to decide what companies rise and fall.

We need not offer single payer, where a fatass alcoholic can see the ER on a daily basis and bankrupt the system. He can simply blow all of his UBI on his health insurance rates, and be forced to still have to work to survive to feed his habits.

I believe we should start UBI as soon as possible, and abolish all social safety nets in its place. $1000 a month should be sufficient, enough for a smart person to survive on, but not enough to keep them out of the work force if they desire nice things.

18+ and legal citizen should be the requirement for UBI. There should be no income brackets or anything else. Everyone gets the same check.

((((((((((free))))))))))

How is it income redistribution if you receive a check that's equal to a poor person or a billionaire?

It's probably the worst economic idea in history.

UBI works. I don't have time to dig up studies right now but I posted them in a previous thread. In one case crime went down by around 40%

What do you mean 'use it' if UBI was introduced then its for everyone

Video title
>free money for everyone?
emphasis on the question mark, idiot

As my house is paid off, I will immediately quit my 6 figure job and live off others as a parasite. I will no longer contribute to the economy, to our tax base, and take advantage of such a monumentally stupid decision as opposed to be victimized by it.

you make a compelling argument, thought i was against it but now im starting to reevaluate. In your view would universalized health care be axed as well? (in countries that have it of course)

Your choice but wouldn't that be a very unrewarding life?

I make $90k a year at 25. If some poor idiot commies think I should get additional free monies I don't care, I'll just take that money and put it into index funds and accelerate how fast I'm able to blow by them in wealth.

I think at that point you would have already pulled your weight in society (not much different from an early retirement).

>I believe we should start UBI as soon as possible, and abolish all social safety nets in its place. $1000 a month should be sufficient, enough for a smart person to survive on, but not enough to keep them out of the work force if they desire nice things.
>18+ and legal citizen should be the requirement for UBI. There should be no income brackets or anything else. Everyone gets the same check.
i'm okay with this and would enjoy it very much

Even if some people disagree with the concept of a social safety net altogether, almost everyone can agree that UBI is a much better alternative to the current welfare system.

By paying out everyone the same, you've fulfilled the need fo the safety net while not discriminating against anyone based on income.

UBI+flat tax would be the ultimate system.

Talk about devaluing the dollar, stupid niggers

Wrong, it would be the same amount of dollars in circulation now

There is an unkind phrase when it comes to cats, and it holds true for too many Americans: feeding leads to breeding. I wish we could have safety nets in America, but "gibs" culture is too strong and multigenerational.

Nobody has ever given me a fucking thing. Not like I asked.

But that's fine. I've always been smart enough to to take care of myself.

That's what's wrong with this world. The smarts are taking care of the stupid. We are fucking with nature. The weak should die.

>We are fucking with nature
We crossed that line a long time ago. And why do you think nature is inherently good, nature is shit

I can't wait to use my UBI money to pay tech companies for things I won't actually own at increasingly inflated prices!

You shill faggots need to quit spamming the board with this bullshit.
>you have to go back

Nature is inherently good because it makes you fight against shit that will kill you.

We wiped you fags out,but you watch all the sandmonkeys and niggers take over your country. You didn't even lift up a spork.

You don't even know what it's like to be a man. Damn....

>Nature is inherently good because it makes you fight against shit that will kill you.
Okay, then leave your house and go live in the woods you stupid fuck

Or get a skill and live around whites?

You couldn't carry my balls in a wheelbarrow. Are you a nigger?

I don't mind cutting any and all welfare to cull the weak leftist scum. And now with crypto, you can just not pay taxes, and that may finally be possible. And with sexbots, the roasties won't even be able to sell their bodies for scrabs of bread, ahhhhh the future is finally here...

Universal healthcare would simply come from the fact the government gave you a check for $1000. If you want healthcare, you can spend your check on it. If you don't want healthcare, you can go buy an iphone, it's your choice.

So yes, forever abolish public option healthcare with it.

It wouldn't make a difference.

The dollar is not a finite currency, it is backed by our economic power. This is why bitcoin is exploding in value while the dollar continues to decline.

Really made me think.

Unemployment isn’t very high barring some catastrophic simultaneous market crashes, so it’s kind of like a pipe dream. In a magical world where corruption doesn’t exist and altruism is the defining human trait, concepts like UBI, communism and the redistribution of wealth could theoretically work on paper. In reality, though, UBI makes no sense as value cannot be generated out of thin air, someone has to create it. If you have everyone on the planet 1 million dollars is now everyone rich and a millionaire? Or would that devalue the currency, cause inflation and everyone is back to square one.

>If you have everyone on the planet 1 million dollars is now everyone rich and a millionaire? Or would that devalue the currency, cause inflation and everyone is back to square one.
Good thing nobody is suggesting that then

Replacing health + pensions + Newstart with a flat universal income would be practical and fair

I would work anyway, but I really like the idea and would want to give it a try

IIRC Switzerland had debates about it, but it was never implemented

here ya go, relevant quote I remembered.

14 mil americans on disability. almost 5% of the population.

Good answer, god we could save so much money with that system.

(((universal basic income)))

if that is what you want, move to cuba and start living the dream today... but bring toilet paper as they are out of it..

So if I'm just going to get money for being alive, why would I want to do anything?

I mean, anything I would want wouldn't mean anything to me because I would have enough money to just sit at home and eat.

I mean, whats the point of living?

>I mean, anything I would want wouldn't mean anything to me because I would have enough money to just sit at home and eat.
This logic makes no sense. Most UBI proposals are enough to take people slightly above the poverty line. Are you saying there would be nothing worth working for as long as you have food?

Why is it that you feel you deserve something from someone else?

who pays for it?

Anybody but OP. That's the way this works.

>Who pays for this wonderful free money?

>rich people

Okay, so what happens when there's no more rich people?? As you're just taking their money and giving it away.

So you do this for a little bit ,and then poof, no more rich people. Now what?

Who produces wealth under that system?
See

Restructuring/getting rid of the multiple current welfare systems and endless departments providing them

>If people can just get paid for doing nothing, then no one will want to work!

You can see where that argument comea from, but it doesn't hold up in reality.

Here in Australia, we have this thing called Newstart, which is like welfare, except you can be on it indefinitely. It's $1000 a month, and all you have to do is put your resume in to ten places every 2 weeks.
It could possibly be the most generous welfare system in the world. So if the above assertion is correct, then Australia should be a land where unemployment is high, there would be a huge number of jobs going, and businesses would be throwing themselves down at the feet of workers begging them to take jobs regardless of experience or skill.

But that isn't happening. There is a surplus of workers down here. Places like coffee shops can get 100+ applications for menial work, and businesses can confidently demand highly skilled workers for positions.

Given the option to live on meagre or even a subnormal income and do nothing, or work and earn as much as possible, the vast majority of people will choose the latter.
The social safety net poses no real danger to the economy for this reason

This is destroyed by bringing down the quality of life of hard workers. As you tax the middle and middle-upper class to death to offer more and more gibs for the lowest classes, you make being part of the lowest class more attractive.

Consider here in the US where Welfare provides a better lifestyle than minimum wage in many places; people simply stay on welfare because why take a downtick in quality of life for working at minimum wage?

You have to incentivize hard work; your assertions only hold true as long as the gibs are pitiful and not as luxurious as whatever you receive for work.

As you continue down the slippery slope of socialism these two points get closer and closer until they invert and then you're done as a workforce.

:)

an economy lasts through labour creating products that are traded with other people. money makes this easier, so you don't have to trade specific items, but just the value of them.

when there is less labour, how do products get produced for the people who can now afford them without doing labour?

why do farmers exist? to work labour to make produce to trade for value to buy other products or services. when the middle-man (labour) is cut out, why does the farmer exist?

>>when there is less labour, how do products get produced for the people who can now afford them without doing labour?
In studies done so far with UBI on average people reduced their working hours by like 5% on average

You're somewhat right.

That's why the current welfare system needs to be scrapped and replaced with UBI.
UBI is a system that doesn't punish you for earning more.

With the current system, you get 1000 dollars a month if you aren't working, and if you do get a crappy job waiting tables or something, you might only get 1800 a month. Only 800 dollars more. The system punishes you for earning more.
With UBI, you would get 1000 dollars month if you arn't working, and 1800+1000 dollars a month if you are. UBI incentivises hard work better than the current system.

If you combine UBI with flat tax, you get a system that has a social safety net, but doesn't punish you for earning more. It is the ideal system.

I appreciate your civil response.

Now, my chief issue with UBI is the underpinning notion that society is better off with all people alive. Why is this so?

Wouldn't society be well-served by the Aboriginals of Australia and the chimps of the US dead? Why should a human being be provided for, or permitted to engage in society, purely on virtue of geographic birth?

Why do we come into this conversation under the powerful pretext that all human beings, simply by virtue of existing, should be provided for?

I would posit that they should not be; that much of our problem as a culture and society, is born of permitting, no, EMBRACING, weakness, laziness, lack of ambition.

Why should those who lack a meaningful contribution to society be permitted to survive and be a quantifiable detriment to culture and society?

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

>studies
link please. also are these studies estimates or real life trials of UBI done in an entire country?

also what country? i googled it just now and it seems like finland is trialing it. finland is essentially homogeneous european. how will it work in say the UK, where the people who are being imported now don't even need to do their shitty kebab store jobs to buy goods & services.

how does it work there?

>protip: it doesn't

A Capitalist bullshit scheme. The world should just go full communism instead.
See pic

Your pic fails to address the failing of socialism/communism that the human being would choose to sit on their ass and eat cake instead of bake cakes for 10 hours a day so that the cakes can be given to people sitting on asses.

Try again.

eventually we'll have to have UBI, because welfare doesn't work. so we'll either be getting rid of welfare and the safety net completely or have a UBI

>Your pic fails to address the failing of socialism/communism that the human being would choose to sit on their ass and eat cake
Wrong, human beings aren't degenerate slobs like you project. Humans follow their passions. Those that love to bake will bake under Communism.
>so that the cakes can be given to people sitting on asses.
Communists will simply democratically decide to exclude them from society then. People work under capitalism, people will work under communism. Nothing will change, just the reasons for working will.

Keep in mind that people would only be getting the BARE minimum to survive.
>link please
fivethirtyeight.com/features/universal-basic-income/
They have done trial runs in Canada as well. FYI Im slightly skeptical myself, but it does seem to be superior to welfare. The author of the bell curve is also a supporter of it, so make of that what you will.

You have some lofty ideas about society should be ordered, which I could almost respect.

But anyway, history has shown us that sudden sweeping changes and "revolutions" very rarely work out, so things need to be incrementally implemented and studied. By trialing UBI and working towards flattening the tax, we can move towards a fairer system.