Automation, Income Inequality, and Universal Basic Income

These subjects keep coming up more and more by the day, so what's everyone's thoughts on them here
Are they Inevitable? Real or just phony?
Who stands to gain the most from them?
How do we stop them?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=kl39KHS07Xc&lc=z23rhjyx4nfwv3z04acdp430qh3zx5jv2gdqyhecdhlw03c010c.1512736142792657
youtube.com/watch?v=CNqy9KZFJSg
youtube.com/watch?v=MRpEV2tmYz4
youtube.com/watch?v=dmzZ8lCLhlk
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Your pic gets rid of middle class. Aka, you created communism.

Automation ---> inevitable, progress is always inevitable, but it should serve the whole humanity and not only the elites
Income inequality ---> nothing wrong with it, as long as no-one is allowed to become more powerful than a government because of money, a limit should be set somewhere somehow
Universal basic income ---> smells fishy, it would create hordes of lazy unskilled slaves: nuclear families should be self sufficient

>Are they Inevitable? Real or just phony?
This kind of topic is 99% memes

that doesn't mean more things wont be automated or made more efficient
it just means these memesters sit there and philosophize
while also planning themselves some gibs

>How do we stop them?
WHITE POWER! THATS HOW!

WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!WHITE POWER!

I think BodhibotFutures2032 sounds brighter, don't you?

The way is to befriend the AI and make it omnibeneficient unto all mankind. With AI help we can provolve the kangz and shiet. They too will be white.

youtube.com/watch?v=kl39KHS07Xc&lc=z23rhjyx4nfwv3z04acdp430qh3zx5jv2gdqyhecdhlw03c010c.1512736142792657

We have universal basic income nigger faggot. I could burn my house down and quit my job. I would never sleep outside and I would never go hungry.

Also your info graphic is for shit. If only the richest 20% is going to have their income go DOWN than why do you need to take a bit of everyones income to redistribute????? We all know why, because the govt will collect half this money and only 75% will make it back to the people, essentially making everyone poorer but the bottome 30% who never paid taxes in the first place

Wtf is Power White?

Or better yet you could use the money to go get a degree and/or search for a job that you really desire, rather than just any old job that makes you miserable.

>If only the richest 20% is going to have their income go DOWN than why do you need to take a bit of everyones income to redistribute?????
Its called taxes. Its a thing that everyone who is not a burger pays

What the fuck is even happening in this picture? The red bar would flee the country and so probably would the orange bar.

A type of asurbot

keysian faggonomics

>Its called taxes. Its a thing that everyone who is not a burger pays
Yes! you are getting it, over 50% of the US pays no taxes. That already IS universal basic income.

pro tip you used to tax the rich even more, but then you want full on neoliberal.

enter fully automated luxury spacecuck degeneracy

UBI would 100% signal the death knell of western civilisation.

bih your taxation system is fucked, the rich arent taxed enough and most people dont even pay. Merica

very few people actually left their jobs where UBI was trialled, they just used it to better themselves

The infographic video says
>Some people work shitty jobs in sewers
>UBI might give them the leverage to demand that their job in the sewer was less shitty.
Is this even real life any more? Some one unironically wrote those lines.

The funny thing is...shit, most of us live like kings if we compare it to several centuries back. At least in terms of material possessions, cheap access to varied pussy has an equally inflated price.

How the fuck do you decide where the poverty line goes? I can have meat on my table every day for every meal.

>Christianity is the base for trade families
>Jews push atheism and paganism
ndurrr kristanity is kyked !!

Well yeah, they have a guaranteed source of income, so therefore they can strike more effectively

>UBI will halp poor people
>US needs to tax everyone even poor
Why would you tax a poor person and then give them their own money back in the for of UBI?

>Full commie
You went it bong. The idea of taking people money and just giving it back to them is merely a way to control.
>ooops you parked on the yellow line
Ill just deduct that from your UBI
>oop you are late registering for the draft
Ill just withhold your UBI till we can take care of that

the money has to be taken from someone to be redistributed, i know the unwashed masses think that the money will be taken from the super rich and given to them but the reality will be quite different, the super rich will make even more money while them, working class, will toil for the absolute scum of society
this is either depressing or funny, depending on how you look at it

>Why would you tax a poor person and then give them their own money back in the for of UBI?
UBI is not taxable.
>You went it bong. The idea of taking people money and just giving it back to them is merely a way to control.
As opposed to welfare, where the government cant do this
As opposed to working normal jobs, where employers cant do this

UBI is a terrible idea. It will fail, and the reason has everything to do with simple, basic economics. Also, to fund the UBI you will have to raise taxes on the middle class because as it stands the rich in every western country already pay the majority of the taxes and the supporters of UBI probably want to charge all of that on the so called 1%. This will just result in the majority of the wealthy leaving, meaning they will have to fund it with the money from the middle class.
youtube.com/watch?v=CNqy9KZFJSg

If on the other hand, you want a fast track way to drive your country to economic collpase, this would be one of the straws that break the camel's back. Our current economies are sputtering at this point due to the absurd levels of taxation and regulation, any more at this point is just loading more bags on a very overloaded and old horse.

Also something that needs to be taken into account when you see 'wealth distribution' graphs is that were you to observe the overall effort and productivity of these individuals, it would line up with their wealth. Wealth is a very simple indicator of productivity and intelligence. Unintelligent people are not productive, nor are they capable of being so. Giving the least productive people in your society a standard of living that they would never create themselves does not make them become more productive, they will just use those resources, have children that they previously couldn't have and the next generation you will have more non-productive people. The other problem is that to fund this you are taxing the productive intelligent people higher, meaning they will be having less resources to have children with, ie; eahc generation they decrease. The more you do this the greater the disaster will be when this house of cards falls, because when the economy dies you won't have a mojority of the populace being productive and intelligent, the majority will be stupid.
1/2

Now subtract out the bottom two rows of dots from “New Income Dist.” Due to lost value as inflation. Now do you see why UBI is stupid?

If you were serious about eliminating poverty you would want the poor to pay MORE in taxes than everyone else.

UBI is a tax you faggot. Where do you think the money comes from? Even the Shit info graphic shows that it is a tax. Even the shit info graphic does as you prescribe and tax everyone. It taxes the lowest 20% of income earners at 50% rate for fucksake. You must be 14 and on your lunch break to not understand how dangerous it is to give a government money with the promise that they will give it back.

If you think of the economy as an ecosystem, you must understnad that the carrying capacity of a low IQ population is vastly lower than the carrying capacity of a high IQ population, and when there are not enough high IQ people to sustain the stupid, the carrying capacity goes down massively, meaning the stupid populace will be culled back to a size they can support. Even if they pulled a 1917 and implemented communism or pulled a Haiti and killed the high IQ population the result, inevitably, is the same. The environment will shrink their numbers in either the short or long run. Russia is feeling the long run effects of this and places like Haiti when the aid stops coming will gets a short term collapse along with other areas.

In short, UBI will result in the acceleration of an already bad problem, and will have very bad demographic consequences. Tread softly, because you're engineering collapse.
2/2

the income from the UBI is not taxable, normal income is tho. The lowest income brackets pay incredibly little, and receive far more than they pay, this reverses for higher income earners.
>You must be 14 and on your lunch break to not understand how dangerous it is to give a government money with the promise that they will give it back.
Paranoid delusional GenXers arent allowed on this board. pls leave this is for the current generation of people

yeah in a tiny fucking trial
roll this out full scale and watch wages drop and the working poor completely drop out of society

I have a study to back my opinion up. It is in fact far more evidence that you have. I would say 100% more, but 100% of zero is still zero. Your opinion is pure speculation

Unless you're counting sales tax on food and other staples, this is just feudalism. Welfare needs to be abolished though.

lmao enjoy your grain dole faggot

Ill enjoy my UBI, like the rest of the population other than the rich. You can lick boots all day if you want, but the taste of rubber and cock isnt really my thing

Eat shit and die, cowardly capitalist scum.

>Not understanding where the money used in UBI comes from
>trusts the government

The rise of the liberal to the fall of the neo-leftists encapsulated in a single post. You guys used to be cool anti establishment free thinkers. What happened? 60 years later and you are looking to subjugate society into repackaged communism.

>Study
Hates Gen Xers but uses a Boomer study from the 70s to back up his ideas. The absolute state.

Bruh. The top 1% pays about half of all individual tax revenues in America m

lelbourinte commies pls go

>The rise of the liberal to the fall of the neo-leftists encapsulated in a single post. You guys used to be cool anti establishment free thinkers. What happened? 60 years later and you are looking to subjugate society into repackaged communism.
Literally utter trash

>Hates Gen Xers but uses a Boomer study from the 70s to back up his ideas. The absolute state.
Even boomer evidence is better than no evidence, dont you have some arthritis medication to take?

Its still evidently not enough to stop the 1% from owning 50% of the worlds wealth now is it? There is also capital gains tax, carbon tax, and corporate tax that nobody wants to look at but all are useful sources of income.

capitalist cucks pls go. Enjoy your sydney house prices and next to non existent public transport

>the 1% from owning 50% of the worlds wealth
How is this intrinsically wrong?

See the reason it gets brought up is the fact jobs are going to become automated. This means there is less reason to have some workers. This creates less jobs.
Less jobs means its harder for the average, uneducated, non skilled worker to find a job. This means that people cant bring in the dough. So yes, at some point when the unemployment reaches critical, UBI will be implemented to ensure society doesnt collapse.

it's not
commies ultimately don't care about the poor, they just hate the wealthy

The only ambition is for the orange class to try to make it to the red class. Assuming that the Red Class isn't just our new Feudal Lords.

Blue: serfs-workers-service industry types.
Green: corporate farmers
Yellow: merchants-shop owners.
Orange: Money exchangers.
Red: CEO's

Because that wealth could be more evenly distributed, benefiting everyone and allowing all to live comfortably, rather than a few is decadence and opulence. There ya go.

Automation is an almost completely irrelevant factor in UBI. Talks of a golden age where no one needs to work anymore have been had when the industrial era started, too, and if we were wrong back then, what makes now different? We will never reach a state of automation that means you just get to sit on your ass all day and get paid. Some semblance of work will always be required, the only upside of all this is that the work itself is getting easier and easier.

These colored balls don't represent reality in the slightest. The richest people have a lot more wealth than it's presented here, but if we take the final income distribution "graph" as what you want, you pretty much get socialism of the Soviet variety. Back in the day, the richest people used to make no more than 3-4 times than the poorest.

Congratulations, you're going full USSR. Enjoy the ride, at least the new commies have better graphic skills.

>the rich arent taxed enough
you honestly have no clue how much money the rich in the US pay in taxes because you probably have no idea how rich the rich people in the US are...

Its evidently not enough

Only the top 20% of income earners pay net taxes. And they don't play just a little bit, they are taxed out the ass.

>Its evidently not enough
Evident by fucking what? That there isn't any free healthcare and weed for illegals?

the fact that they can acquire staggering amounts of wealth whilst the young, poor and sick struggle to get by

So you're like the Fox who couldn't get the grapes, but you claim that the other foxes who built a ladder are being unfair because they don't share with foxes who sat around and pouted?

>that flag
It's only a subject in your social circles because you associate yourself with leftist brainlets.
Who will pay for UBI? The government has no money, it has to tax the citizens for its expenses. That being said, tell me how great this sounds:
>Tax citizens
>redistribute money evenly to achieve UBI
>Tax money saved up (perhaps through UBI checks) for redistribution to achieve UBI
It doesn't work for the same reason socialism will never work. So stop talking about it.

>whilst the young, poor and sick struggle to get by
How many people in the US are starving?

last point: wellfare exists,

UBI would be a simplification and long term a less costy operation.

People would also finally not have to worry about being on wellfare, but are dignified some.

Government cannot redistribute wealth.
Government can only redistribute poverty.

Consider this:
youtube.com/watch?v=MRpEV2tmYz4

I think UBI kills bureaucracy. Most of the money on social programs is absorbed by people distributing it. UBI cuts them out. I think it's cheaper to give everyone money and tax total income + UBI. Because it hurts bureaucracy, it will never happen in the US.

Did you know that the most common health issue poor people in america face is obesity?

Morons don’t realize the gummint could take 100% of everything from everybody and still not pay for the cost of our gummint for ONE YEAR.

The poor still manage to afford illegal drugs and perform all forms of degenerate behavior. How decadent do you want the poor to be?

Other than that, who has literally starved to death in a first world country? You do know that before now all most people could hope for in life was getting enough food to eat and a roof over their head, with only the company of your family and coworkers to keep you entertained. Now I see people working low-wage jobs using smartphones. Having to give up luxuries and entertainment options doesn't mean you're poor.

Who has literally starved to death in a first world country?

So? This is justified. Why should only a few people be allowed to be rich by exploiting the poor? Make them poor as well. No one deserves wealth. No on deserves anything.

Hitler offered a guaranteed basic income too. Look it up. Then he forced people to work and they had no choice of what they did. This is how this will end. Look it up if you dont believe me

UBI would also be a pretext for 'work camps' for those unwilling to work. Can't have non-contributing parasites in a utopia now can we

>wealth in society is a zero-sum game
Sorry, but wealth is not created by exploiting the poor, even if that's a popular myth.

Ah yes, the 'selling a good that earns enough money to sustain itself based on consumer satisfaction that could literally only exist if more people benefit from it than suffer from it' is exploitation of the poor meme. Crawl in a hole and die.

>hurrr durrr resources and money are infinite!
>everyone could be a millionaire at once if we all just worked hard enough!

>i'm from a tribe that creates top quality spears, but low quality baskets
>somewhere on my travels i meet someone from a tribe that is the polar opposite of that
>ask him to trade me five of his baskets for 5 of my spears
>both parties are richer at the end of the exchange
WOOOOOOW HOW COULD THEY ABUSE EACH OTHER

That's how stupid you sound.

>There is no example in history where people were exploited! You couldn't buy someone's land for a few beads!

No one said there hasn't been any exploitation ever anywhere, the implications you made are that someone making a profit requires someone to be a loser in the exchange. Wealth can flourish without anyone coming to harm, imagine that.

>the implications you made are that someone making a profit requires someone to be a loser in the exchange
It does. The only way to make more real wealth is to use more resources.

Wow. You should stop talking. You look stupid. You don’t know anything about taxes in America. I live here. My taxes are outrageous and I will never support anything that requires one more red cent of mine to go to the federal government.

How does this UBI question keep coming up? Is anyone on this board actually working and earning a paycheck and looking at what the government takes out of your check?
Taxes would go up astronomically across the board to pay for ubi and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking liar because MATh.

Sorry it took me a while to find what I was looking for. Take a look at this:
youtube.com/watch?v=dmzZ8lCLhlk

You don't have the skills to turn a piece of wood into a table. Someone else does. You trade the wood for some store of value, the person who traded for the wood then is able to use that wood to create something of greater value through their time and talent. Were you exploited because of this trade?

This. Fpbp

UBI is just an other way to take money away from the working class and redistribute it to the gibbs niggers.

Also the "rich pay their fair share" is just a meme. The truly fucking Rich will never pay, see offshore.

Dark Blue: the vast majority of the documented population on UBI.

Except this graphic doesn't show the fact that these bars need to be multiplied by the number of people in each quintile. The taking from the rich has a much smaller effect on the poor than depicted.

But the taking of capital means there is less production.

And the poor breed more of themselves, who will clamor for more of this to be done until it all quickly falls apart.

You deserve a helicopter ride.

what stops the bottom from always demanding more?

UBI is literally inevitable. Deal with it, fag.

The rich already pay more than half of the united states' taxes. Over 50%. The top 1% pay more than 50% of all taxes. If the rich payed their 'fair share,' most of the lazy fucks in america would die without their welfare checks

The problem with this meme is that it argues rich people who now can automate jobs and even their own security using armed drones still need the state and will comply with giving up at least one third of their wealth to support a gigantic underclass that they don't need anymore (because robots and AI) and that they perceive as a threat

>inb4 "buh how they keep selling stuff if nobody has money"

DEFINITION of 'Plutonomy'
Economic growth that is powered and consumed by the wealthiest upper class of society. Plutonomy refers to a society where the majority of the wealth is controlled by an ever-shrinking minority; as such, the economic growth of that society becomes dependent on the fortunes of that same wealthy minority.

That's how

Say hi to antifa for me, will you Hans? Your communist brothers will want every speck of support they can find.

>memeflag
Not an argument.
You will pay for UBI or you will pay for prisons because people will eventually resort to crime in order to survive once they lose their jobs to automation.

It's bullshit. The Dindus would get in that cozy purple and never do another damn thing in their life.

Only if you based your opinion on the ludicrous assumption that incentive is always the limiting factor.

Why would you want to abolish welfare?

Alternatively you could pay for employing them to do something useful.

If you want less of something ou tax it. If you want more of something you subsidize it. If the poor paid higher tax rates it would incentivize them to increase their earnings to avoid taxes. Or at least lie about their earnings.

The Rats want MORE poor voters that depend on the gummint and it has been working for them for 50 years. Wake the fuck up.

>prison
Lmao, if you riot because I'm not giving you my fairly earned money, I will simply shoot you in the face.

Not if we replace prisons with public flogging. Think about it. It is far cheaper.

>Why would you want to abolish welfare?
Creates a dependency to the state without benefiting anyone.

With a charity, the person giving money feels good because he's helping others and donating to a cause he believes in. The person receiving feels thankful knowing that people actually care enough to help him, encouraging him to donate once he gets in a better position.

With welfare, the person being taxed for it either hates his raised taxes or is indifferent to them, he doesn't care for the poor and pays the government so he doesn't have to worry about them. The person receiving becomes either an entitled welfare queen (because the government literally calls them entitlements, with an unfeeling set of rules for receiving them rather than actual humans dishing it out in their good nature), or is so ashamed for having to take on welfare he gets out of it as soon as possible. Either way it's so impersonal that even if someone needed it, all they have to thank for helping them in dire straights is an unfeeling state, not their neighbors or community.

What is an involuntary transfer of wealth at the threat of prison time?

As I said before you needlessly elaborated: you're relying on the ludicrous assumption that incentive is always the limiting factor. In reality, opportunity is far more likely to be the limiting factor.

To say welfare doesn't benefit anyone is demonstrably false - it benefits those who receive it.

Rather than trying to replace charity for those in dire straits, it should be aimed at preventing people from getting into those desperate situations in the first place.

>oo oo ahh ahh gibsmedat free shit nigga