Is it immoral for doctors and physicians to put such a high price on their skills?

Is it immoral for doctors and physicians to put such a high price on their skills?

its more immoral for anyone to waste time replying to this thread

go fuck yourself niggers

just as immoral as medical schools putting such a high price on teaching those skills.

No

it's immoral for them to save OP if his life is on the line

faggot

this more so than anything else.

I fully expect a doctor who spent at least six figures on his education and 8 years of his time to learning the profession to be able to charge high prices.

There is a way to fix that. Make Med School last a week. Residency a week and a half. Fellowship 3 days. You, too, can be a cardiothoracic surgeon in less than a month. Problem solved.

Its not immoral to charge a lot. Its immoral to regulate and require licensing and prevent access to drugs and techniques. All of that is a 20th century meme and its wrong. In the USA you need a license to cut hair and its the same thing.

Not really immoral for the actual surgeries but god damn the cost just to wait in a hospital room for a few hours pre and post surgery is insane.

Well that's not relevant in Canada, soooo...
I guess OP's in the right about us universal healthcare fags.

>cancer status = not cured

if i was running the show I'd make sure they don't get paid a dime until they get that shit sorted out, lazy millionaire niggers can't get anything done...

No. More work should be rewarded with more pay. And diversity hires in health related professions should not only be discouraged but also illegal.

The amount of affirmative action in medicine is astounding in the US. I recently got accepted into med school as a white guy with a 3.99 GPA and a 508 on the mcat. I know a black girl who got into the same school with a 3.4 and 500...

It's the same in the NHS. I know a guy who works in the radiology department of my local hospital and he said he works with a couple of black girls who have the same job title as him and earn the same money but they don't have a fucking clue what they are doing and he ends up having to carry them all the time.

Nigger, we fucking kill ourselves studying non stop for 10+ years throughout med school and the residency, something you could not do to save your own fucking life.

We deserve what we charge, in fact, we don't charge enough.

I have a friend who is in medschool aiming to become a surgeon, He will spend atleast 9-11 more years in school and he started in January.
I think he deserves better pay as he both studied for so long but also that his proffession is extremely demanding at times and can be very difficult.
Only a fucking commie could think he don't deserve a good pay.

Is it immoral for bakers to put such high prices on bread?
Is it immoral for carpenters to put such a high price on chairs?
Is it immoral for tech giants to put such high prices on phones?

Oh what's that? Those prices aren't high at all because it's a free market that naturally leads to consumer benefit, and only the involvement of government via regulation ruins it? Hmmmmmm.

no its immoral to expect someone to be your servant. anyone can charge anything they want for your services. its immoral to have a corrupt financial and banking system with a fiat currency and fractional reserve banking.

Much of what we pay goes to malpractice insurance and other expenses. Most doctors aren't really making that much. The insurance companies on the other hand...

oh hell no. the one's that should be ashamed and have a voluntary day of the rope are the lawyers. the huge number of lawyers in this country (and probably all over the west) is the worst cancer we suffer.

>ones

Considering that they paid hundreds of thousands to acquire those skills, no.

Yes honestly. It's also immoral for the cost of their training to be so high and also for the verification/gating process to be so easily bypassed while having such a low bar that many doctors with critical conditions like alzheimer's or downright brain tumors are allowed to perform surgery and nobody is allowed to take over/correct them when it's clearly causing them to fuck up a patient, nevermind sheer incompetence and literally bought degrees.

desu the insurance fucking deserve it given how incompetent the average doctor is.

if you hire a plumber and he works on your pipes for 5 hours then says "yeah idk, its fecked mate, thet'll be $5000" you say you will pay him because he did work? same with a doctor - if they cant do a job to a satisfactory degree, they shouldnt get paid. in no other job do you get paid for trying

Still one post by OP, saged

Criminal defense lawyers still get paid when they lose.

oh fucking please. most doctors are hacks these days. neural networks are much better at diagnosis. robots are better at surgery. hell, going to the doctor only costs so much because of all the fucking tests they give you and all the overpaid support staff that doesn't know what they are fucking doing. my son needed surgey to remove a tumor, benign thankfully. misdiagnosed 3 times from scans and months of doctors saying it was just fluid build up and not a high priority. by the end, total cost ~$100,000, of which I only paid a couple hundred because of my extremely good job. pay the surgeon for the two hours of surgery, sure. so pay them $1000 an hour. pay the anesthesiologist, sure, especially with a kid, give them $1000 an hour. Ok we're at 4k. A couple scans, let's call that 500$ a pop, ok we're at 5k now. Blood work, let's throw in a couple hundred bucks for the neural net blood tester, fuck overpaid untrustworthy labs. Add nursing staff on top of that. One nurse took care of my son before and after his surgery, for probably 1 hour of her time total, part of which involved her pulling the IV out wrong and making my son bleed all over the place. Call that another couple hundred bucks. We're at 6k tops. Call it 10k after administrative work. How the fuck did we get to 100k?

FYI this all happened in one of the highest rated children hospitals in the world, inb4 ghetto hospital.

someone who studied alot should get paid alot? not let the market determine their works' value? you're the communist here. actually not even communism would do that, you're just inventing things. you want to pay people for subjective hardship?

better hospitals = higher prices, that makes sense then. However to say most doctors are hacks these days is retarded. Just because machines can do certain jobs better doesn't mean we can consistently rely on them yet. You are basing all your criticism on doctors on your own horrible experience, but sometimes they get the job right and some of them do care to try and get a good job done with the time allotted them.

lawyer, theres an honest job

Not really. It takes a hell of a long time and a hefty investment to get to have those skills. That, couple with the high culpability in case something goes wrong, mean it's alright to charge what is charged. Besides which, most healthcare expenses are NOT to pay healthcare professionals, but instead on drugs and hospital bills.

t. medfag

I know right, without highly trained doctors the human race couldnt even exist. who would deliver all of the babies?

Plumbing is always fixable, and at worst you change your whole plumbing. Diseases aren't always curable, and you can't change your body. That's a bad analogy. That said, when a cure isn't possible you should seek to provide comfort, so saying "eh, it's fucked, have a good day" does make a shit medic.

Medicine isn't just obstetrics you know.

If you study so hard then why dont you know shit?

MDs are the women of higher education.

Go to an engineer when you get sick then, nigger.

>undergraduate school is expensive
>medical school is more expensive
>drug companies have to pack R&D costs into their drugs
>insurance companies reject claims whenever any mistake is found on paperwork
>this practically requires a lawyer to review the forms and coach staff on filing them
>lawyers are really fucking expensive

And this is just clinic problems. Inpatient work has another shitstorm on top of it.

By his logic a women's studies phd should earn much more than a plumber, or someone who hoses shit off the concrete floor at the dog kennel.
>b-but i deserve it

If there were a legal binding waiver you could sign to give up your rights to a malpractice suit, prices would drop by a third easy.

yea its being passed to 6 specialists and 4 labs to decide whether or not you should cut off a mole. its making sure 12 people are involved in the process of you getting pills to stop shitting water.

the human body is less complex than a late 80s sedan and aside from specialized tools and a few skill based procedures there isnt much an army medic cant do with a few months of training in his kitchen.

There are outliers, but for the most part medicine is about pajeets taking xrays and handing out ibuprohpen and antibiotics for 99% of things

I do, dipshit.

Because hospitals like those overcharge people with insurance to pay for the uninsured. So literally, ghetto hospital.

>100k
>physicians are literally 4% of the bill
>it's their fault
The exorbitant prices are hospital costs, not the physicians' salaries. Blame pharma, hospitals and equipment manufacturers for being jews, not your personal physician (though he might be one).

>the human body is less complex than a late 80s sedan
If medicine is so easy why aren't you doing it?
>for the most part medicine is about pajeets taking xrays and handing out ibuprohpen and antibiotics for 99% of things
For the most part patients didn't even need to go see a physician.

>>rrreee physicians are too expensive
You go study medicine then. Charge very little. BTFO the overcharging physicians by getting all those patients. Medicine is very easy!

>if medicine is so easy why dont you do it
read my first post.

radiology is putting pressing a button behind a paywall. There should be MRI machines set up like tanning salons where people can go get checked at a competitive price. anesthetics being regulated are the only thing keeping (((dentists))) in business. even in the early 1900s the town doctor was usually whoever was the smartest and the person people trusted. now its a racket

>radiology is putting pressing a button behind a paywall
That's a technicians job. A radiologist's job is making sense of the images and providing a good medical report for the soliciting physicians.

>There should be MRI machines set up like tanning salons where people can go get checked at a competitive price.
Honest question: why do you think that's not being done? There is no price fixing in medicine.

Regulations are what makes the monopoly. No government enforcement of patents, medical licenses, etc., and free market gives good care at decent rates.

>i am a medicine
>why do you think that's not being done?
because its illegal dipshit.
never go fulll retard, we could have had fun bantz but you killed the mood

What part of providing cheap medical service is illegal?

>There is no price fixing in medicine.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
MY SIDES

There literally isn't. Go study medicine and set up your own practice. You'll see you can charge whatever you want.

Look there are shit doctors all over the place. But if you're to make this a rock solid argument you need a fantastic doctor well liked, minimal tests for rare and uncommon presentations. A literal gift to the profession. The Doctor that other doctors all go to see. Spends as much time as possible with patients, many 48-72 hour shifts b/c of compassion for fellow man.

Even then That guy would still have high prices.
And it would be moral to give it to him. If only to compensate him for time away from his family and loved ones.

you can go to mexico and get full body MRI for 300 bucks put it on a thumbdrive and take it to any physician of your choosing

I dont make the rules. If another country is willing to throw money at me, sign me up.

t. Brit med student that plans on relocating to US on completion of studies.

>purposely ignore the fact using an MRI machine without all the red tape is illegal

i told you we are through user, dont reply to me or my cats posts ever again

This. This is why we need free medical school and higher education.

Example:
>drugs typically need government approval
>cheap generics require testing compared to the name brand
>the name brand is at complete liberty to provide samples for testing or not
>if the generic goes to market as a replacement to the name brand, they get in trouble
>this happens regardless of independent GC or NMR work
This is what happened with Imprimis trying to sell a generic alternative to Daraprim. They had to get around it by their own brand of trickery.

The way medschools and teaching hospitals are run is dictated by professional organizations for doctors, which rate keeping established doctor incomes high, through perpetual qualified labor shortage, as more important than patient lives or humane treatment of med students.

It doesn't take ten years to get the level of performance an average doctor is capable of. Maybe the elites among them need all that training, but the average doctor, up to about the 80th percentile, performs at the level of a two-year certificate holder with two years on-the-job training. There should never be a shortage of them, and they should cost about as much as an ambulance driver. A good third of them are grossly incompetent or unethical and shouldn't be working in medicine at all.

Guess (((how))) it turned out this way. Have you looked at (((who))) tends to grab the top positions in the advocacy organizations and boards of the medical profession?

We need to cut doctors off from all special legal privileges and presumptions of competence, make them compete on the open market. Healthcare is the most absurdly overregulated industry.

You're fucking retards. Do you have any idea how much a human cadaver costs?

Depend. Did they make some oath about charging fair or cheap for their services? If no, then they can charge whatever they want

200 bucks where I live

obviously you are aware but the oath says to take no money...

last time i visited, it was free!

90% of your work, unless you're in surgery, could already be done by a machine. You're just taking basic information (vital signs, imaging, PMH, labs) to figure a diagnosis, then you prescribe based on standards already made. And if you need help with the last part you can ask a pharmacist.

A doctor might make 2 or 3 decisions in his career that couldn't be made out of a textbook.

Good, let him operate on you too.

applying for physicans assistant school (masters) at 31 now, wondering if I'm doing the right thing constantly for the long term?

people are always like, why not med school?! because i'll be almost 38 when I start earning money again plus another 1/3 of loan debt more than the masters would cost

>A doctor might make 2 or 3 decisions in his career that couldn't be made out of a textbook.

and 2/3 times theyll still fuck it up but thats ok because everyone pays for their malpractice insurance.

Is it immoral for a doctor to sell a medicine for slavery? Free market hes deciding he values his life more than all his money

It's a good job if you're okay with being in a subservient position for your whole life, which I suppose most of us are.

No. It's incentive for them to study hard, build their skills, and grow at medicine. We will always need healers. Whether or not I trust a nigger or poo doctor is another thing though. Better to take care of yourself though. Big pharma is crooked as pigs cock

Indian doctors are usually smart as shit, they have to be to get in to this country to begin with.

I was drooling over the wokeness in your post until I noticed your flag.
Tell me, is the US medical system similar to your description? It answers a lot of questions that I have had about the US medical system, I have honestly been wracking my brain trying to come up with the true honest redpilled answer on how to fix it. Once again, Sup Forums is always right.

>we deserve
>dominican rep
Fuck off nigger, you're a glorified medicine man.
Fucking coconut island nigger faggot

Just wait until sex robots and synthetic limbs and shit. That human upgrade shit from deus ex and halo is going to be real. I want to go back to school and learn everything I can about tech in general. Automation will make welfare queens of us all. I don't want to be left behind

I meant mainly to describe the US medical profession, but Canada's is the same deal. In Canada, we have to compete with US doctor incomes, because our doctors can easily move there. The systems are connected.

But look into it: the history of the medical profession organizing to kill competition, raise barriers to entry, and deliberately undersupply the market.

I don't know. There's a skill of critical thinking that indians seem to lack. Don't get me wrong; the better your internal computer the better. It's just I've found poo docs to be the masters of bandaid over a gunshot wound type of people. Probably to do with the pure number of people in streetshitter land

It is not immoral within the frame of capitalism because these are highly complex professions that take a whole chunk of your lifetime on this earth to master, so there should be a reward.

Whether if capitalism itself as we know it is moral or not is another question

It is more so if they themselves are responsible for limiting the number of doctors, as it is in the U.S. with the A.M.A..

Is it immoral for an insurance company to charge $200,000 per year for malpractice insurance?

Everywhere I have read something about medicine it seems to have been scrubbed by ((them)). Where might I find the other side of the story? No Alex Jones please.

I figure American healthcare is just a product of privatization. Get what you pay for. There is stories of folks in Canada who get cancer and don't get the proper surgery for a malignant tumour until 2.5 years later, and by then you it's too late. Government in Canada is extremely slow. Americans have lightning fast service from what I hear, but niggers and mexicans are the ultimate hypochondriacs and ruin the system. I understand pay to play. The cronyism also plays into this whenever you have similar people bitching about their bullshit (all the $$$, time, studying for med school) and folks create basically a mobster style union that creates a monopoly. Sometimes I wonder if the Dr Nick type guy might be the right answer for some people.

>Is it immoral for doctors and physicians to put such a high price on their skills?
There is nothing wrong with demanding fitting payment. Withholding treatment from those who can't afford it however is the same as causing harm.

The individual has the responsibility to act in the interest of his people and those who don't act in the interest of their people have no right to live amongst them.

I have suspected this all along, but the question is how do we take down the medical mob? I am seriously pissed off about it. My wife and I are actually planning a vacation to Mexico to get some dental work done. I officially have boycotted the medical jew in North America.

yes
doctors are supposed to donate a percentage of their time to hospitals where they do not make any money, or 1/100th of what they make
these days colleges and society convince people that doctors should be these rich people driving expensive cars and having big homes
instead of doctors having a desire to help others first and foremost, they instill them with the meme that they should help themselves first

pharmaceutical companies incentivize them peddling certain drugs to patients (opiates, vaccines, etc) and doctors play along because college told them so

rand paul was right at the recent HHS hearing about how pharmaceutical companies and hospitals charge amounts that are unheard of, and the FDA won't let anyone manufacture generic drugs from numerous companies to lower the cost, and the government won't let people buy drugs from other countries with better standards than ours

healthcare is a big business and the kikes have gotten their hands into that pie, and desire to charge insane amounts so that insurance companies can charge more, and so on

if normies would get mad at the pharmaceutical and healthcare industry, maybe they'd see results
but the kikes convinced them that government should pay the expensive bill and we should raise taxes to pay for it

That is all correct. It has, however, 0 effect on a physician's price. It makes treatments expensive, sure, but that's hardly our fault - besides which, a good doctor takes into consideration a drug's/treatment's cost before prescribing it. Do you blame the plumber for a pipe's price?

>medics want to be rich rrreee
Then you go study around 8 years, have a profession with incredible responsibilities, and still opt to charge low.

The oath also says to not cut up people.

>almost a decade of educational requirements
>tens of thousands of dollars in loan debt
>extremely expensive malpractice insurance
>be treated like a private contractor by most employers, leaving you on the hook for your own insurance and payroll taxes
>mountains of ever changing gov't regulations to deal with
You know the funny thing is that if you lowered taxes, repealed Obamacare, passed trot reform, forced colkege. Professors to be accountabke, and kicked the humanities out of univeristies, your medical costs would be dirt cheap.
As usual, the problem is gov't.

>Do you blame the plumber for a pipe's price?
Well, the plumber selected that pipe knowing the price would be paid by the customer...

Donated over here.

Indeed. And as I said, a good doctor will also take into account a certain drug's cost, and its alternatives, before prescribing them to a customer. Are there shit doctors who purposefully (or through incompetence) don't do that? Of course. Just as there are shit plumbers.
I mean it: the great cost of healthcare in the US has very little to do with physicians. Most (common) medication are cheap. It's hospital bills, some imaging exams (such as MRI), and (rare) drugs that really ramp up the costs.

Uh, what is a “weatherman”?

Yes.

I like you, you get it. It's why I would never go into such an industry, nor will I give respect to those that do unless they are deserving of it. Protip: Most ain't.

>American healthcare is just a product of privatization.
"Privatized" but not free market. Government's greasy fingerprints everywhere.

Private emergency rooms are obligated to provide treatment to everyone, regardless of ability to pay, with no government compensation to the hospital for non-paying patients or criminal penalties for abusing it, so the hospital has to make it up by charging others more. Heavily tax-deduction-subsidized insurance companies are allowed to negotiate "discounts" relative to uninsured customers, and since most people are insured, they're effectively negotiating higher prices for the uninsured, so needing some relatively minor emergency care when you're uninsured means the hospital can take your house and car and garnish your wages. Then there are the drugs: the government pays for most of the research, but the drug company has to pay for jumping through all of the government's regulatory hoops, then it gets a government-enforced monopoly for twenty years and gets to set whatever price it wants during that time. On top of that is liability, with arbitrary, unpredictable decisions and huge "pain and suffering" settlements decided by clueless juries told to judge complex technical matters utterly beyond their understanding.

Insurance is at the heart of the disaster. The patients don't have to stop and think about whether something is worth the cost, the doctors and drug companies don't have to stop and think about whether the patient can afford the price, and the legislators don't have to stop and think about whether allowing huge, unreasonable settlements will stop doctors from practicing... they just get liability insurance and pass the cost along to the health insurance companies that normally pay their bills. Everyone's making decisions about spending money that's not coming out of their own pocket, or out of the pocket of anyone they interact with personally.

I don't think so, long education and you want the best care you can get.
People being paid more do a better job, and if they fuck it up you can sue so you get what you pay for

I do work in the pharmaceutical industry to help people with very specific illnesses that they would perish from if they miss a single dose from our medications. I have done an order that had about 3 pounds worth of medication and the total cost was close to 2 million. I see the drugs come in like they were candy. As far as I'm concerned something is up. People that tend to do the least amount of work get paid more than those that break themselves to make sure shit gets done, and at the end of it all those that get paid more always blame those below them forgetting the things they told them a week ago. This is life where I work at and things are breaking all the time, they get nickle and dimed by their business partners, don't even know why they call them partners, it's more like parasites.

I mean they spend $2,000 on a "business" computer whose performance for its primary purpose is less efficient than my "cheap" $500 rig.

There is a strong lack of communication which leads to mistakes and errors that cost the company an ass load of money and furthermore, no one actually seems to know what is going on even in corporate.

The shits are expensive, doctor's jobs are hard because of government, and at the end of the day, the money that is being moved around IS morally wrong for such a thing.

They don't put a high price on their skills, the fact that their service has been paid for in part by the government artificially inflates the price of the service.

Not long ago, surgeons were butchers, psychiatrists peed on your head, and pharmacists were monks with expensive herb gardens.

Plus patent law monopolizes gives the drug companies a time-limited monopoly. In that case, the drug companies do control the price and adjust it to their liking.

Far more immoral the amount of malpractice suits and the costs of insurance for it literally causing hospitals employing these "overcharging" doctors to go out of business or be almost entirely unprofitable solely because you idiots know nothing about how expensive everything incolved in your care is.