Bleach

Why were the Sternritter fights so underwhelming? Which match ups would you change?

Giselle was the best Sternritter

No buildup, we saw a lot of the arrancar before we saw many of them fight

because regardless of what the captains did, the sternritter were always like 3 steps ahead of them.

Askin was better.

>Why were the Sternritter fights so underwhelming?
Because their powers and fighting style were something that would expect from a chuuni LN not a shonen manga

Remove their arc
Let Bleach die when Aizen gets rekt

What about the Soul King plot?

Because there are too many of them, not enough buildup, and their powers are ridiculously OP.

Is the drawfag here?

I'd have Rangiku + Tres Beastias vs Femritters. Rangiku wouldn't get zombified and run into Harribel's fracciones who came with Kisuke because they want to find Harribel. They'd get ambushed by the femritters and the fights would breakdown as:
>Rangiku vs Giselle
Rangiku has a strong reaction to her captain being a zombie. She reveals her bankai and it's a nekomata so she can take control over the dead, but she needs to know where a dead body is if she wants to control. The change from Seireitei to Wadenreich changed whose buried there so she takes Bambietta away from Giselle but in her weakened zombie state she wouldn't put up much of a fight, but that's fine because the dead Rangiku really wants needs to take some time to arrive:Gin. We get a zombie Gin vs zombie Toshiro match and Rangiku manages to get Gisellw while she's distracted from the fight between the two zombies defeating her and saving her captain.
>Mila Rosa vs Liltotto
Don't have too much of an idea on this desu, but it was a match up to play on Mila Rosa's devour release command and Liltotto's eating ability.
>Apache vs Candice
Purely based on personality
>Sun-Sun vs Meninas
This is the last fight to be concluded Sun-Sun is actually having trouble so once her companions are done with their fights they come to help her out summoning Ayon. The femritter fights are concluded with a brutal smackdown between Ayon and Meninas.

Haschwalth's fights seemed utterly pointless all-around. He should have fought Ichigo - he was the one who broke the Bankai, after all.

Lille Barro's fight seemed like it should have had more to do with 'accuracy' and guns, rather than multiplying birds and MAX INVULN cheat codes. If I could have Bleach be as complex and creative as I wanted, I'd have him fight with Hacchi. Imagine Hacchi finding ways to block the target by cleverly manipulating his barriers. Imagine Hacchi putting a box around a moving bullet and teleporting it in space to directly behind Lille's head - that kind of complex logic would have made the fight great.

Also, I really wanted Gerard/The Miracle's fight to be "sad", in a way - he'd get stronger and faster and more power of friendship-y after each defeat, rather than simply getting bigger. That's what would make him *miraculous*: he'd be like a shounen protagonist; getting up when nobody thought that he could possibly get up again, and proving stronger than ever before. If the fight had been done this way, his perfect match would have been Kenpachi. Still not exactly sure how Kenpachi lost against his big mode.

The only Vandenreich fight that actually appeased my tastes somewhat was Ichibei versus Yhwach. It was the highest-level fight that the series could possibly reach. No other fight in the entire series used force anywhere near the scale of their battle - if Ichigo had Ichimonji, he could've just 黒蟻'd Aizen/the Hougyoku and ended Deicide in one chapter. That's how different that fight was.

I wish we saw a bit more interactions between the SR.

>Rangiku has a strong reaction to her captain being a zombie. She reveals her bankai and it's a nekomata so she can take control over the dead, but she needs to know where a dead body is if she wants to control. The change from Seireitei to Wadenreich changed whose buried there so she takes Bambietta away from Giselle but in her weakened zombie state she wouldn't put up much of a fight, but that's fine because the dead Rangiku really wants needs to take some time to arrive:Gin. We get a zombie Gin vs zombie Toshiro match and Rangiku manages to get Gisellw while she's distracted from the fight between the two zombies defeating her and saving her captain.
THIS
YES
PLEASE

I don't like that everyone and their mothers get bankai, but Rangiku animating zombie Gin to fight zombie Hitsugaya just sounds too good.

Askin was the only good sternritter. Others were forgettable shit.

zaraki vs the kid, Giselle vs mayuri and MAyuri vs hand were pretty good, other not so much

>I don't like that everyone and their mothers get bankai
Same, but I always hoped Rangiku and Yumichika would get bankais because they more or less introduced their zanpaktou spirits and their relationships with them that if they achieved bankai it would indicate character growth for the two of them.

Zombie Gin would be disrespect to the dead. Gin shouldn't even be dead, much less risen-again.

1000 years to train these retards and they end up killing more of eachother than their enemy. Shitty kubo writing.

such a waste. too many of the fights went 'oh no a scary ability! too bad i have just the ability to counter it lol'.

sadly rangiku wasnt powerful enough. i liked how her shikai was ashes though. strong death theme.

This 100%.

I don't even remember the strong girl with the pink hair doing anything.

Gerard Valkyrie's fight was such a huge fucking disappointed. Literally just got bigger and wouldn't fucking die. Kubo's writing is piss.

>sadly rangiku wasnt powerful enough
How? As far as feats go she's one of the stronger Vice-captains. She just never got a fight that kept focus.

because she cant keep focus. she has a weak affinity with her sword.

Almost like browsing a thread on a certain website at times.

That's the exact reason why she should though. She, and Yumichika, both actually want to achieve bankai, and Rangiku states after Gin's death that she will motivate herself to it, the problem is she butts heads. That's the obstacle, and when you give characters and obstacle you want to give the expectation that they will overcome it. This is why Rukia and Hisagi getting bankais bother me, because neither of them struggled or worked for it or had any self actualization.

>This is why Rukia and Hisagi getting bankais bother me, because neither of them struggled or worked for it or had any self actualization.

Rukia had tons of development over the course of the series to warrant achieving Bankai. Hisagi had at least as much reason to achieve Bankai as Rangiku did, and will likely be explored more in the upcoming LN.

>Bambi>Yoruichi
Askin had shit taste.

>Rukia had tons of development over the course of the series to warrant achieving Bankai
Not really. By all accounts she's the only one to lose to a fullbringer. My point is still that, with Renji's flashback with Ichibei, it suggests there was no real work to get it, just Ichibei telling them the name and suddenly they can walk through most sternritter while everybody else still ate dirt most of the arc. If Byakuya had stayed dead after teh first invasion I wouldn't be so mad about it, because the she'd have something new to develop and grow from, but that didn't so we just got "nee-sama acknowledged me" for the third time.

HIsagi didn't either. We ever see him actively want that power, just Kensei pushing him towards it without any real weight or character to it. Because Kubo doesn't like Hisagi, he just knows that the fans like him. If there was any reason for Hisagi to achieve bankai it was to get over his unwillingness to use his full power which he still has after achieving bankai because he never used it despite all the opportunities he had in the arc. Dude became a waste of panels in the grand scheme of the series.

>By all accounts she's the only one to lose to a fullbringer
And the only non-Captain to defeat an Espada; besides in terms of emotional development over the course of the manga, Rukia overshadows any other Vice Captain, even Renji.

>with Renji's flashback with Ichibei, it suggests there was no real work to get it
You're overlooking that we literally saw both of them training their Reiatsu in the Royal Realm with Ichibei way prior to the flashback you're referring to.

>If there was any reason for Hisagi to achieve bankai it was to get over his unwillingness to use his full power which he still has after achieving bankai because he never used it despite all the opportunities he had in the arc

Achieving Bankai and Mastering Bankai are two different things; just because Hisagi could use Bankai doesn't mean he could control it (given the nature of his Zan). Also I don't really see how this is any less noble than Rangiku wanting to achieve Bankai; Tousen was to Hisagi a lot of what Gin was to Rangiku, minus the romantic aspects.

Rukia and Renji had a shortcut in the RR.

Renji had already achieved Bankai before going to the RR.

Rukai had already achieved Shikai long before the manga began, its not that unexpected she was able to obtain Bankai and had likely been working to achieve it for a while.

>besides in terms of emotional development over the course of the manga
The problem is it's the same two plot points over and over again. Either acknowledgement of Byakuya or getting over Kaien's death. With losing Byakuya's actual death we lost a new avenue for Rukia to develop as a character.
>You're overlooking that we literally saw both of them training their Reiatsu in the Royal Realm with Ichibei way prior to the flashback you're referring to.
That's not exactly the same thing as training for a bankai. Which was still down in a manner much faster than Kisuke's three day training and begs the question why they didn't bring more people to train since it made such a huge difference for Renji, Rukia, and Byakuya.
>Achieving Bankai and Mastering Bankai are two different things
That's still no excuse not to try. It didn't stop Ichigo or Renji for fighting what they believed in. Iba even has that speech he gave to Ikkaku about not fighting to your fullest in a war is selfish.
>Tousen was to Hisagi a lot of what Gin was to Rangiku, minus the romantic aspect
>The romantic aspect
That's exactly why Gin is more important to Rangiku than Tosen was to Hisagi. Tosen and Hisagi weren't all that unique of a captain/vice-captain relationship either.

>The problem is it's the same two plot points over and over again.
How is that any different from Rangiku?

>That's not exactly the same thing as training for a bankai
see >That's still no excuse not to try. It didn't stop Ichigo or Renji for fighting what they believed in.
Hisagi isn't Renji or Ichigo. His whole thing is 'to fear one's own weapon' out of respect for it's power, and his Zan spirit is a complete bloodthirsty monster.

>Tosen and Hisagi weren't all that unique of a captain/vice-captain relationship either.
And Gin and Rangiku weren't all that unique for an unrequited romance.

>I don't like that everyone and their mothers get bankai

Considering how 99% of the squads are jobbers even after decades of training and shit. I guess.

After that much time of being a death god, you would think they would all have bankais. Or at least be much much stronger like Kenpanchi or Yorichi.

>How is that any different from Rangiku
Rukia gets complete resolutions while Rangiku's were left open
see That proves my point, they weren't training to use bankai then? I don't get what you're trying to say here.
>Hisagi isn't Renji or Ichigo. His whole thing is 'to fear one's own weapon' out of respect for it's power, and his Zan spirit is a complete bloodthirsty monster.
He's also afraid of dying to. the problem with these philosophies is that they're terrible for someone who intends to fight on the battlefield. He should've been the one to join Squad 4 if this was the case.
>And Gin and Rangiku weren't all that unique for an unrequited romance
>unrequited
You don't know what this word means, and within Bleach it was unique.

I think the mortality rate for nonseated/ low-seated officers is pretty high. You have to remember the vast majority of Shinigami never achieve Shikai, let alone Bankai. High-ranking seated officers and Captains/VCs are very much the exception in terms of power, to the point where the military strength of the Gotei 13 pretty much only counts the Captains and their respective VCs.

>Rukia gets complete resolutions while Rangiku's were left open
Okay? What does this have to do with achieving Bankai again?

>That proves my point, they weren't training to use bankai then?
My point is it's irrelevant. Rukia had as much reason to achieve Bankai as Rangiku did, moreso even. The difference is that Rangiku isn't as major of a character and was admittedly not ready for the responsibility of being a Captain.

>He's also afraid of dying to.
[citation needed]

>He should've been the one to join Squad 4 if this was the case.
Clearly you missed the 'bloodthirsty monster' thing...

Ulquiorra or Grimmjow?

Starrk

I only liked mayuri vs pernidas and the chicken fight, the latest only until the "we can only kill you with one sword in the universe, luckily, we have it!"

Neither.

Even the Mirror Sword technically couldn't kill Lille, that's how powerful he was. It did, however, manage to break his connection with Yhwach, and give the reader quite a good piece of Soul King lore.

Woah, fuck, this is absolutely correct.

Ulquiorra was rad.

>Okay? What does this have to do with achieving Bankai again?
For Rukia she already resolved her guilt over Kaien and was acknowledged by Byakuya. She should have gotten new plot points for the last arc that spurred her on to growing stronger.
For Rangiku we see her trying to learn it all the way back during the arrancar arc but she butts heads with Haineko, after Gin's death she resolves herself to get stronger. If she achieves bankai it shows how she has changed and overcome her sorrow over the loss of Gin.
>Rukia had as much reason to achieve Bankai as Rangiku did, moreso even.
I never meant to imply that Rangiku deserved it more than Rukia, just that Rukia earned it in an unsatisfying way. It should have been Byakuya's death that inspired her to grow stronger and achieve bankai going after As Nodt to avenge him.
>was admittedly not ready for the responsibility of being a Captain.
Five characters have bankais without ever becoming or being captains. And Rangiku is looked up to by other vice-captains as their senior and depend on her. And there's an interview int eh second databook that now after the fact suggests Kubo was going to include somethng re:Rangiku being considered to succeed Isshin as captain.
>Clearly you missed the 'bloodthirsty monster' thing
Anime filler doesn't count. At no point is it implied that Hisagi houses a bloodthirsty spirit or personality, and even if that were true Unohana and Kira already do that better than he does.

>She should have gotten new plot points for the last arc that spurred her on to growing stronger.
>If she achieves bankai it shows how she has changed and overcome her sorrow over the loss of Gin.
So really you're just mad that Rangiku didn't get any focus after Hueco Mundo, okay.jpg

>It should have been Byakuya's death that inspired her to grow stronger and achieve bankai going after As Nodt to avenge him.
People still think Kubo was going to kill off Byakuya? Pathetic.

>And Rangiku is looked up to by other vice-captains as their senior and depend on her.
Since when?

>Anime filler doesn't count.
Zanpakuto spirits are canon though.

Because Kubo didn't have the guts to kill the Shinigami.

Byakuya not dying then coming back to own a bunch of Sternritter without breaking a sweat was beyond retarded.

>Because Kubo didn't have the guts to kill the Shinigami.

Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake, ect. say hi

Yeah, the real problem is that Kubo didn't have the guts to kill any of the REALLY popular Shinigami.

Thats only a problem if you hate popular characters, like most of Sup Forums.

>So really you're just mad that Rangiku didn't get any focus after Hueco Mundo, okay.jpg
Yeah she and a lot of other characters didn't get resolutions. That's a natural thing to be mad about in a story. I'm also mad that Harribel didn't get rescued, that's why I included the Tres Beastias in my suggested change, but you didn't come at me for that.
>People still think Kubo was going to kill off Byakuya? Pathetic.
He had no reason not to other than upsetting fujoshits. Byakuya surviving lead to a good number of sternritter firghts not happening because he dealt with them off-panel.
>And Rangiku is looked up to by other vice-captains as their senior and depend on her.
The fact they all use the -san honorific with her, and she helped Momo and Kira get through their issues.
>Zanpakuto spirits are canon though
There was no guarantee they'd be the same as they were in the filler.

>Yeah she and a lot of other characters didn't get resolutions. That's a natural thing to be mad about in a story.

Hey, at least she got to share a fight with Toshiro, thats more than I can say for a lot of characters. Also if you hadn't noticed, not a single Sternritter was below Captain-tier; expecting any of the VCs to 1v1 a Sternritter is pretty foolish. Don't really know what you're deal with the Tres Bestias is considering they were completely outskilled by Quilge.

>He had no reason not to other than upsetting fujoshits.
He had no reason to kill him off either; Sup Forums naturally blew things out of proportion by making up false claims about editorial interference.

>and she helped Momo and Kira get through their issues.
Wow, two people look up to her. And they only use -san cause she's a cake.

>There was no guarantee they'd be the same as they were in the filler.
Shunsui's zan spirits say hi.

>expecting any of the VCs to 1v1 a Sternritter is pretty foolish.
Nemu, Renji, and Rukia say hi.
>Outskilled by Quilge
So was Ichigo, but then he manages to kill another sternritter on his way out of the Garganta so there's still a fair amount of difference in power levels among the sternritter.
>He had no reason to kill him off either
He's the first antagonist, having him die to the new enemy and beg his former enemy to save everyone dropping his usual pomp to do so.
>Wow, two people look up to her. And they only use -san cause she's a cake
Orihime and Toshiro rely on her too I was just keeping it to VCs. That's still more respect than Hisagi gets.
>Shunsui's zan spirits say hi
same design I'm talking about personality here. And at no point in the filler arc did they imply the young spirit was made to house Nanao's zanpaktou.

>Nemu, Renji, and Rukia say hi.
All three were Captain-tier in terms of Reiatsu.

>So was Ichigo
What? Ichigo in Bankai completely outclassed Quilge in Volstandig.

>He's the first antagonist
And? Kubo had literally just killed off Yamamoto, killing off Byakuya in the same two chapters would have been a total waste.

>same design I'm talking about personality here
Personality is an aspect of design, and there's no reason to suspect some sort of drastic change there.

>And at no point in the filler arc did they imply the young spirit was made to house Nanao's zanpaktou.
I shouldn't have to explain to you how retarded you're being right now. Kubo would never give the anime staff that massive of a spoiler.

Ichika lewds when?

I wish Ichigo had become a sternritter and bullied Rukia

Any new translations from the novel?

No buildup, no stakes (or just poor presentation of them), poor caracterization (Bazzbee and Jugram excepted), a charismatic but ultimately empty villain forced in by a prophecy.
I suppose Kubo wanted to show he could manage an arc without kidnapping a female team member to move the plot along, and he failed spectacularly.

>killing off Byakuya in the same two chapters would have been a total waste
You're right, and kubo really used Byakuya well afterwards by making him so strong he walked through most of the Sternritters he faced. I like when fights have no tension.

I really want to see characters like As Nodt and many others animated

bambi was best

>wanting more needlessly drawn out Sternritter fights

No thank you.

>Also, I really wanted Gerard/The Miracle's fight to be "sad", in a way - he'd get stronger and faster and more power of friendship-y after each defeat, rather than simply getting bigger.

That sounds funny and sad at the same time. Reminds me of Mask de Masculine in a way. Wonder how a fight between Shonen Hero Gerard and Mayuri would play out.

I'm not the only one that liked Bazz-B, right?

He was fine as a character, it's just that his fight with Haschwalth was kinda off.

>That sounds funny and sad at the same time. Reminds me of Mask de Masculine in a way. Wonder how a fight between Shonen Hero Gerard and Mayuri would play out.

The same way all his fights would end He would get Nemu to take the fall for him

So what happened to the Vandenreich after Yhwach's defeat? All the Stern Ritter are dead as far as I can tell and Uryu is a doctor with no interest in fulfilling his duty as heir to the throne of his people. What did all the surviving Quincy do? Go back to living in the shadows? Did they find a new leader?

You answered your own question.

Didn't they all get auswahlen'd? Are there any Quincy survivors other than the Ishidas and the Kurosakis?

After Askin, he was the only SR with s good character arc

We still don't know if Ryuken is missing and neither do we know if all Sternritter are dead. Shaz is definitely alive and Askin and Lille were both also mentioned to be alive the last time we saw them. Some other Sternritter might also have survived like BG9 or the the little traitor trio.

The last Auswahlen was only for the Sternritter who still had power left. So only Gerard, Haschwalth and possibly Askin were affected. The Soldat, Sternritter that were still alive and Ryuken were all ignored. So far there is nothing that indicates that the Quincy are extinct again. It would also be very unlikely, since the Shinigami would have to kill an equal amount of human souls to balance the number of reincarnated Quincy, if they were all killed.

When someone says an author can't kill off his characters, they aren't talking about the ones that only got a few panels of screen time or were only important in the moment that they died.

They are taking about the beloved characters, the plot relevant characters, the ones that will actually have some impact on the reader if they were to die.

Yamamoto is the closest thing to this who actually died, and out of a cast of hundreds, one isn't really much.

Too many Sternritter. There were only 12 Arrancar that mattered if we include Nel. There were 27 Sternritter.

Even those Sternritter that got some build-up were not developed enough for us to care if they lived or died, and there was a serious lack of infodump about their powers, like Giselle's.

The very worst thing was Bambietta not getting to fight Uryu.

Yes, but just by graduating they should be good at something and not wastes of space. Fuck, there is almost no kidou or similar stuff after SS either.

Power scales in Bleach are some of the worst I have ever seen.

People cared a lot about Askin, Bazz-B, Giselle, Haschalth, Äs Nödt and Bambietta. Though in her case, her development began after her death.

Giselle's power have been explained really well though. It's probably the Schrift with the most explaination.

If anyone could become a Captain it wouldn't be such a prestigious position. There is a Kidou Corps but its relatively small and very specialized, like the Omnitsukido. There certainly is a power scale, not nearly as bad as DB though.

Things I would have changed?
Civil war in the Quincy organization Yhwatch was the baddest of the bad asses and won. No he's not gods kid.
He's just a broken powerful as fuck psychic that even after dying was strong enough to summon and control spiritual power. The kind of thing the shinigami feared.

Ichigo isn't a quincy's kid. He's just the child of a powerful psychic who the quincies wanted.

The thing about the white ichigo being the true face and nature of his zanpaktou? I like that shit. That was fucking awesome.
The thing about the other guy being Yhwach. Nah man. Nah.
Just do the whole duality thing where his true nature is the white hollow but the black hollow is..I dunno. Maybe his fathers zanpaktou keeping it in check.

Too many reality breaking magic attacks.
All of them should have had sword and bow and arrow type deals.

Them taking over HM so they have a place to stage an attack after soul society basically destroyed their greatest warriors and the king of HM who had a hard counter to all quincies powers?
Yeah that is good.

The revelation that Uryu, even though he was relatively strong as fuck was basically the equivalent of a low level soul reaper to the quincies? That was kind of cool.

Captain commander shouldn't have died like that Maybe he did use his bankai against Yhwach and fought him to a standstill and lost. But not before he almost kills him.

The fights with the soul reapers should have been an outright war against the sereitei. Something akin to them attempting to overthrow the unfair rule of the soul reapers or something.

Liked the soul kings palace. Did not like the boring ass soul king. Really wish he went through with making the soul king a god level hollow.

This. Gin skulking around the corners of the spirit world doing this and that and sending Rangikou anonymous bottles of liquor would be good.
Him saving her from zombie shota captain would be pretty good as well.

The only difference between light novels and manga to begin with is pictures.

What you need to remember is that the average Shinigami only needs to be as strong as Karakura Town Ichigo, fending off weaker hollows and performing soul burials. Menos are incredibly rare and any hollow Adjuchas and above will rarely appear outside of Hueco Mundo.

Should have stayed relatively low level and just concentrated on spells and unique magical abilities that had to be overcome with cunning and luck.

Occasionally being broken powerful enough to over rule kidou spells and magic should have been woven into the canon.

Notice how Harribel had no bearing on the story after the reveal of her capture?

I would've brought back Starrk/Lilinette and had them fight seriously and beat a higher-ranked Sternritter.

You mean exactly like Grimmjow did?

Chad fights Mask de Masculine and wins over Mask's fan, inspiring him to become a pro wrestler instead of a boxer.

You mean James right? Him and MDM were the same person.

When i first saw starrk resurreccion i though that they could switch the form, like Starrk becomes some kind of winchester rifle and Lylinette gets a cute outfit, but oh well

this

Yeah, but it'd be like once Mask got angry and turned out to just be an asshole, the horde of James started to cheer for Chad instead. Renji's fight was pretty boring anyways, and this gives Chad something to do.

I think you missed the point of Mask De Masculine; from his own perspective hes the hero of the story, so James will always cheer for him. Also, Chad wouldn't stand a chance against Mask, period. His powerlevel capped in Hueco Mundo.

What are you talking about? Most of the fights were good. Only Gremmy, Lille and even Gerald wasn't all that good.

Otherwise than that, all the major characters got good fights.

because there were so fucking many of them that you forget about most of them, all the fights also felt rushed as fuck and were just them beating everyone up but no not really here'e my plot armor.
tl dr
Quality over quantity

HEY BLEACHFAGS

let's get drawin

reply to this post for requests

>Gin skulking around the corners of the spirit world
Why do people think that if Gin survived Rangiku would let him sneak off again?

Kuukaku fishing with dynamite.

Orihime cooking something to Ichigo and Tatsuki, both of them nervous about the outcome

Last chapter Karin wearing Kukaku's outfit.

Yamada trying to princess carry any girl from Bleach, I don't care who, but he's struggling.

Something from the new Brave Souls event like Gin and Rangiku eating dried persimmons together, or the drunken rock-paper-scissors tourney.

Ichigo watching how Orihime is healing Aizen's severed arm. Aĺl of them feel uncomfortable.