JoJo King Crimson Question

Hear me out here: isn't King Crimson's ability pretty simple except for the fact that Araki straight up screws up in one scene, specifically the scene where he introduces King Crimson's ability? I think the fact that KC's first introduction portrays the stand power incorrectly is the cause of all the confusion. Specifically the bit in pic related.

So, to explain KC's power, say you fire a gun at Diavolo. He already has Epitaph, which means he knows when to activate King Crimson. You start pulling the trigger, he activates KC. King Crimson Time happens, in which all effects do not occur (I like to say it's "hypothetical" time, but that might be even more confusing for some people), so in King Crimson Time you've pulled the trigger and the bullet is firing, but the bullet can pass through Diavolo's head, since all effects are nullified during King Crimson Time. King Crimson Time ends, the bullet hits the wall behind Diavolo, but he is unharmed. You find you've already fired the gun, even though you don't recall doing so.

The bit I'm saying Araki screws up is that nowhere in my previous gun example are there two bullets at the same time. There's no overlap between the past and the future. The bullet is in the barrel prior to KC Time, and behind Diavolo's head after KC Time. But it's never in two positions at once. YET, when Araki first introduces KC, Buccellati sees HIMSELF, as in, his past self sees his future self. It's like what is in post-KC time appears at the same time as pre-KC time, which, of course, makes NO SENSE. People try to account for this, which is really just Araki and his somewhat inconsistent writing (which we should all be aware of when considering JoJo), so it makes more sense to disregard the overlapping Buccellatis altogether and explain King Crimson's powers without trying to take that scene into account.


…right?

I don't think King Crimson's first use of his ability was portrayed incorrectly. I like to think that what Buccellati saw was actually Diavolo giving him a glimpse of Epitaph and then used the time skipping power to appear behind Buccellati to donut him.

It's always like that. Araki tends to test things out before finalizing, in fact Josuke's original power was supposed to be Joushuu's screw power, but Araki felt that there's no way he could write that in with Joushuu's vision loss, so he went with the stealing bubbles. Other than that one moment, KC is pretty standard. He gets to skip through time and run away while leaving the end result unchanged, allowing Diavolo to carry out actions without consequence.

Part 5 is full of inconsistencies, don't bother figuring them out

Part of it due to the translation

Part 1. Dio kills Jojo's dog, dad, William Zeppeli, and Jonathan himself.
Part 2. What does Caesar Zeppeli and a can of soda have in common? They both go flat when they run out of bubbles.
Part 3. Avdol dies first, twice. Iggy gets kicked in by Vanilla Ice Cream. And Kakyoin gets turn into a doughnut.
Part 4. Yoshikage Kira kills Pineapple head, Aya, Yoshihiro Kira. Then the true hero comes and kills him. Ambulance.
Part 5. Dio sticks Jonathan's dick into everything and Giorno Giovanna is one of his many kids. Bruno is killed but becomes a zombie. Best girl Narancia dies, GioGio goes god mode and kills Diavolo multiple times. Polnareff becomes a turtle.
Part 6. Everyone dies. Even Jotaro.
Part 7. The President kills Gyro Zeppeli. Johnny kills the President in all parallel worlds.
Part 8. Gappy is the new Jojo and he has four balls because he's made of two people, Yoshikage Kira and Josuke Higashikata. Johnny kills himself to save his child and wife.

Here are some spoilers. Help curb the cancerous fanbase by deterring new people from watching it.

You know the funny thing is he did the same exact thing with D4C when it was first introduced. I still have no fucking clue what was going on with that who shot Johnny scene

This. Diavolo could share Epitaph with Doppio, it might be a separate ability of it to be shared with whoever Diavolo wants just to fuck with him.

D4C is pretty simple though, he gets between something and boom he can parallel world his shit up, or if he puts you between something he can toss you in a parallel world or so on. The who shot who shit was retardedly confusing though. Anyone wanna explain that?

Oh yea I agree it's a simple stand, but the who shot shit was a, well, interesting way to introduce it.

Probably a multiverse thing. He merged the universes together, so the kids from the Diego shooter universe, the kids from the Wekapipo shooter universe, and the Valentine shooter universe were in the same place.

Huh, that's pretty interesting. That would make more sense. A lot more sense. But at the same time, Doppio is the same person as Diavolo, so it still feels somewhat shoehorned in that Diavolo can suddenly share Epitaph with people (and it's been a while since I read Part 5, but wasn't Epitaph revealed later? I don't think it was even mentioned before the Buccellati fight. It seems weird that KC would be sharing powers that weren't even properly explained when power sharing also wasn't a thing that was allowed).

I guess what happened was that Valentine shot base universe Johnny, and he made Wekapipo and Diego shoot alternate universe Johnnys. That makes the most sense, doesn't it?

Yeah he initially describes his ability as allowing multiple universes to exist in the same places

>Part 5

>Leaving out abaccio

>Part 8

>made up of Yoshikage Kira and Higashikata Jouske

>Higashikata Jouske

>not Kujo Josefumi

You should probably kys

That's weird, since that's explicitly what his ability is NOT.

Yeah, Epitaph's ability wasn't introduced until the Metallica fight but it has always been part of King Crimson's design from the start so it wouldn't be too far off for Araki to had probably plan this since its reveal. Hopefully, if there is a Part 5 anime then David can add extra scenes to foreshadow stuff like this.

I feel you'd need an in-depth diagram to explain that shit

Well, more like he probably had the idea that KC had the powers of Epitaph when he wrote KC, and just named it Epitaph later during the Doppio fight.

It's weird how certain things seem thought out, but others just aren't.

King Crimson basically works like Code Geass's Rolo, but people also sleepwalk during it

no

That makes…no sense.
Rolo's powers are a lot more like The World's. At least, I think so. It's been a while since I've watched that show.

People are always memeing about KC but the real offender is MiH for sure.
Have you seen how many faggots get it fucking backwards? It's insane.

What's so confusing about Made In Heaven? I thought it was pretty simple. You speed up everything but humans.

It's a bit weird though how that's supposed to somehow make you remember your life in a past universe, now that you think about it, since Pucci's whole deal was conviction through knowing everything that was going to happen, which doesn't really seem from Made In Heaven's fast-forward world resetting, at least not directly. So I guess you're right, it is a bit confusing.

It's not really Made in Heaven they don't understand but all the alternate universe shit in the last three chapters. SO many people think it just erased the first universe entirely because they don't pay attention to any of the rules it works by. The first reset is the same as the original except Jolyne and Jotaro were replaced and everyone else knows the future with no power to change it, and the second reset undoes this and removes Pucci instead, but because Pucci never existed Jolyne and Jotaro lead different lives and Part 6 didn't happen. Sure it's not explained explicitly but all the rules are there and there's no room for interpretation on what objectively happened, though plenty of room for interpretation on what it means.

You have to show someone one JoJo anime episode to get them into the series

What episode do you choose?

Jotaro vs. Daniel D'arby

I miss Diavolo.

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You're meant to just accept that it just works. No ifs or buts, it just works.

I can agree that Araki did over complicate the explaination of KC's power

EDIT TIME

Didn't he also change how Giorno stand worked at least 3 times and literally benched a character because he had no idea how to make him lose?

Araki was all over the place in part 5, by far the worst part.

i'm always kind of confused as to how part 6 would go without pucci's influence
would jotaro and jolyne just manage to escape the prison first time they tried
would weather report fuck his sister

these are all questions we will not get the answers to

Jolyne didn't go to prison in the first place. Remember? The only reason she was there was because she was framed by Pucci working with Romeo and his lawyer.

This is probably the single best episode you could show someone. Concept is bizarre but still makes sense out of context, doesn't spoil anything big, and would still be appealing for people who aren't big into anime.

Literally the one that got me in, the OAV version.

Either Echoes or Let's Eat Italian.

And yet part 5 had the most consistent-quality fights and the best fights in the series. Pretty weird to say he was all over the place when there's not a single bad fight in part 5, the only "meh" ones were Soft Machine and Baby Face. Every fight was gripping and dynamic as fuck, Grateful Dead, White Album and Green Day are going to be spectacles animated.

>by far the worst part.
Not even close.

>By far the worst part
>When part 1 exists

Don't get me wrong, the worst part is still amazing, it's just not as good as the others.

But, being fair, the translation I read was absolutely atrocious, with shit quality scans.

>by far the worst part
It's not even close to being considered a bad part

Why don't you read the new scans on bato.to? They've significantly improved the part.

Benching Fugo for being OP is a myth, in the post-scriptum for Part 5 he said he did it because his original plan was for Fugo to be a traitor but he was depressed at the time and decided not to go through with that plotline since he thought the story was getting too dark. He got over it though considering the kinds of shit he wrote in 6 and 7. With Fugo's only reason to exist in the plot gone he decided to write him out at the most convenient spot.

I love part 5, but I wonder how much it would improve if he wrote it now.

Post more comparisons

I wonder if the anime will do a little more with Fugo.

Bruno seeing another him is just Diavolo showing him Epitaph's power. There is still only one Bruno, in exactly the same way that there is only one person depicted in pic related.

Got you covered senpai.

Jolyne never went to prison because Pucci never conspired against her. Weather never fucked his sister because without Pucci he wasn't in a pair of twins and the woman never swapped him with her dead baby, since she said she could only bring herself to do it by rationalising it as the original parents still getting one baby so it was fine, meaning Weather was actually raised by his proper family and his sister was just his sister you can still headcanon him fucking her if you want. And Jotaro was a better dead since DIO never found his friend and never wrote about it in his diary so Jotaro never read it and thus didn't have to be on guard and distant for the rest of his life waiting for someone to inevitably catch him with his guard down.

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Hopefully they do more with the whole crew in general.

You watched Pat and Woolie play Minecraft just now, didn't you?

Of they go 39 episodes again there'll be plenty of time for extra scenes in almost every episode, unlike Part 4 due to it being 19 chapters longer. Part 6 would be great for this too, considering it's only 3 chapters longer than 5.

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I doubt it. The anime usually avoids adding or changing too much.

Why do people try and explain KC's ability when we all know it just works?

worst is not at all the same as saying bad, worst is just a comparative term

Because I read it in Italian and it actually makes perfect sense. The moment I understood it was like euphoria and I want everyone to know that feel.

I'd agree usually but part 4 changed a LOT for the better. They added a lot of scenes too, and the stuff they changed was significant, like switching Cinderella and Quiet Life, or the entire July 15th arc.
Even then it's definitely not the worst part, parts 1-3 are good but they lack the quality all parts after them have.

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>the entire July 15th arc
What did they change? I read the manga years ago so I don't really remember.

Part 1 and 2 IMO are definitely not as good as 5, but 3 was kind of an experiment, and yeah I agree it's still somewhat inferior to 5.

They crammed all those fights into one in chronological order. There was no crossover between then and they were all treated as independent little arcs.

They pretty much reconstructed the arc and strung it all up together so it weaved in between fights as one huge penultimate arc. They also added scenes to hype up the arcs and made Yoshihiro out to be a much more competent villain by showing him finding Kira and then going around with the arrow to create the last few Stand users to orchestrate an all-out attack against the crew. It was really well done with the exception of them cutting out a chapter of Superfly,
Agreed completely.

Yeah. The thing that makes KC so "complicated" at first I think is exactly that kinda of Panel, where the affected one can "see" his future self.

It's literally the same thing that happens in ASB and EoH.

If they instead just showed the target suddenly just finishing an action with no recolection of even starting said action, it would be simpler.

However, I think what makes KC be so "famous" is exactly that fucked up perspective. Once you know how it works, it isn't actually complicated at all. Kinda like D4C. Fucked up presentation of a not so complicated hability.

D4C was explicitly stated to be able to make different universes exist in the same at first, but then that ability was never used again afterwards and it only did travelling between universes. It's kind of like Diver Down in that sense, it was originally introduced with it's power explicitly stated to be storing kinetic energy in objects but then never uses that ability again and only ever changes the structure of things from the inside. I get what you mean though.

So why didn't the priest tell Diavolo about condoms?

He's Catholic, contraception is bad.

He thought he would stick his penis in the tailpipe instead.

I want the communion of Jotaros

Im pretty sure KC just makes people sleepwalk and preform the actions they would have done according to Epitaph at the time of activation

Nope, it literally erases time.

According to who?

The manga? Diabolical himself says this in KC's first appearance. How does Diavolo avoid bullets in KC vs Metallica if everyone is just sleepwalking? He'd still get shot. He makes everything but him stop existing for up to 10 seconds and when they resume existing they're all exactly where they were in Epitaph's prediction. That's why Diavolo can't hurt or be hurt, because no one else exists in that time. Why would you assume the complete opposite of what we're explicitly told and shown?

>Doppio is the same person as Diavolo
No he's not.
Doppio and Diavolo are two completely different people that only share a body.
Neither Doppio or Diavolo is insane.

>waah, how dare new people enjoy something I've enjoyed longer than they have

>doppio
>not insane
Literally hallucinates and talks to objects.

What? Diavolo was just some kid and then his soul split into two parts, sharing the same body. He's schizophrenic. They're not "two completely different people".

The thing that really infuriates me is people who think Parts 1 through 5 didn't happen in Ireneverse.

They have two completely separate souls. His psyche split but Doppio has his own soul unique to him for unexplained reasons.

It's literally the same person, they have a split personality disorder.
Even if there are two souls, they're one and the same.

Exactly. I honestly don't know how people arrive at that conclusion when EVERY rule Made in Heaven has and EVERY explanation Pucci gives revolves around things being unable to change.

>the manga?
>explicitly told
You meen the notoriously bad English translations? Okay
>shown
The entire reason for the confusion and all the theories/analogy is that it literally doesnt

>how does he avoid getting shot?
If someone were to shoot at him, they would be shooting at where he would be in Epitaph's plot line, letting him just not be where he's shooting

Doppio is the real villain

No, the fucking manga itself shows him being directly shot at, NOT MOVING, but avoiding the bullets by erasing the .5 seconds they would have hit him in.

I'm talking about in the Italian translations which were officially done. Besides I'm pretty sure the new English scans are saying he 'eradicates' time instead which is the same thing. Where are you getting the idea he just makes people sleepwalk? Why call it 'time erasure' (literally how it's translated in both Italian and French) then?

Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying, he and Diavolo are the same character, that has always been Araki's intention.
If you don't consider then two sides of the same whole you get two incomplete characters.
To size it up, Diavolo never even showed up in a volume cover with his own appearance, only in Doppio's body.

Doppio is Diavolo tho so it's not like he's sharing it with another separate person
Can he share it with another person?

>Diavolo never even showed up in a volume cover with his own appearance
A shame because I really like his design, and there's only one piece of art Araki drew of him outside the manga.

Can this guy be reported?

>diavolo was a stumbling autist as a kid

He is as an adult too, dunno why you're that surprised.

He was a stumbling autist and total fuckbait. No wonder he wanted to run away from his past.

I think the music in Jojo always goes unappreciated, I fucking love CNBT and funny valentine's theme from ASB. They need to reuse that in the steel ball run anime

Post handsome

> older doppio
> Somewhere inbetween Dop and Diavolo
user my dick can only get so erect please tell me you have more like this

I don't, but I wish I did

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