Protagonist: I don't care about this complicated stuff, I just know that I have to stop you!

>Protagonist: I don't care about this complicated stuff, I just know that I have to stop you!

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The average villain is just an asshole dressing himself up with fancy rationalizations. The average hero is going to look dumb trying to preach to him, because he's not prepared to do that.

Ideally, a hero shouldn't have to say anything. Just punch the villain in the face like Saitama.

On everything but a bad day he listens to their backstories and motivations. He doesn't give a fuck, but he lets them say it.

>I must stop this war! war is WRONG!!!
>proceeds to kill thousands of people

That's not a paradox.

The whole point of Saitama as a character is that he's a mediocre hero even though he's the most powerful being in existence, specifically because he doesn't have a logical or moral drive to do good.

"Rationalization" is buzzword of the worst sort. If you can't disprove the opponent's justification on a rational basis then you have no right to criticize their position, and "rationalization" is just an excuse retards use to do exactly that.

Something about omelets and eggs

>Protagonist: I don't care about this complicated stuff, I just want to go home

>Guts
>Home
Pick one.

>character explains something not complicated in the slightest
>it somehow has to be dumbed down even more with MC replying with something like, "I don't really understand but all we need to do x then y right? YOOOOSH"

>get put in amazing magical world
>receive amazing gifted abilities
>everyone loves you
>surrounded by bitches that all want you
>"I just want to go home and live a normal life"

When the villains use sophism as their main method of conversation, you don't have to give a shit what hot air come out of their windpipe.
Just crush them like the drug addicts they usually are.

>I don't give a shit about the world, I'm going to save my sister, even if she kills everything around her.

>that doesn't mean the ends justify the means!

Yeah, I like that he doesn't moralize and will listen if he cares while still stopping them. It's so stupid. Preaching is dumb. Do you really need to explain why blowing up the world is wrong? And in shonen it's coming from children, which makes it even sillier.

To be fair, it IS for children, but yeah.
There's nothing to argue. If you do villainous/criminal things, you don't deserve a hearing. You deserve punishment.

>I don't give a shit about the world, I'm going to save my girlfriend, even if she kills everything around her.

The problem is most of the time there's no conclusive evidence that is even the case, just a general assumption within fiction that anything a villain is doing must produce a bad outcome. Even when their logic is sound some bullshit will usually manifest without warning to loosely gratify the hero's opposition.

Fate franchise is a pretty good example of "moral" characters shutting down any sort of dialogue and getting their way by force, regardless of the possible consequences.

>If you do villainous/criminal things
I love how the moment people are faced with moral relativism they conjure an imaginary "law" when there isn't even an actual applicable legal institution to back their appeal to authority fallacy.

Let's say the the villain, as often is the case, IS the law. What is your answer then?

Pupa?

Nope

how else are you going to stop a war, dipshit? the enemy can't fight if you kill them all.

That's called "winning" the war, not "stopping" it. You're not taking the position that "war is wrong" but the position that "go us, fuck you." An eminently reasonable position, but not the same one.

>what is economic domination
>culture subversion
>coup d'etat with puppets in place

While that's mostly true, technically "winning" means ending the war on favorable terms. "Stopping" could feasibly mean ending the war forcefully, but not actually gaining any benefit by doing so.

I'm not really sure where the semantics of this matters though, it's not like disliking war and wanting to achieve peace through force are mutually exclusive. In fact, that's basically the protagonist of Youjo Senki's main objective.

>All the retards in this thread thinking that moral is objective
How does it feel to have the mentality of a kid?

BY TURNING THE WEAPONS INTO DUST

>Protagonist: I don't care about this complicated stuff, I just know that I have to stop you!
There's a bunch of anime like this, but the best example of this in my opinion is actually a game, Nier. Nier. It actually deconstructs the trope

Is not that nier doesn't care about shadow lord's goal, he denies it, even if he knew about the gestalt project it would be muh yona anyway.

He's so powerful that he doesn't even have to care about opposing opinions. It would be like an emperor caring about what some petty thief is motivated by.

My issue isn't the lack of objectivity, it's the fact that brazen ignorance and irresponsibility is all to often portrayed as an endearing attribute in a protagonist.

For once I'd like to see someone go "I don't care, I need to save/stop X no matter what!" and cause a fucking catastrophe in the process.

I think someone shooting you is amoral

do you agree?

Embers left from the golden era of shonens and kid shows, can't have a protag being smart because of nostalgia and other stupid reasons.

What if he was trying to rape the shooter?

Yet he's less of a hero than Mumen Rider.

With Saitama's mindset he's less of a hero and more of a mercenary. He's very similar to someone like Metal Knight who has very questionable, self-serving motives for helping the association.

It worked for nier.

is rape worse than murder?

Dooming what was left of the human race, killing all the baby shadows and paving the way for the watchers invasion as side effect.

Obviously

Where have you been in the last 10 years?

Its not too bad when used right
Not every hero or story has to be in constant conflict. Whats wrong with a good ol' hot blooded protag? Though I feel they've been done wrong and shittily the last few years

And now robots get to continue his fight.

Nope, Nier is the very definition of a retard MC who doesn't know, nor wants to use his head or be reasonable in any situation. He never tried to learn what shadows are, he never tries to learn what the goal of the shadowlord is, despite various events in the game showing him that shadows are actually sentient beings who think and have feelings. He never stops to ask himself why Popola has so many leads and always puts him on the right track. He's stubborn, tries to solve everything with brute force and thinks that he's justifiable in doing whatever he needs for the sake of his own personal quest.

He's basically every dumb protagonist of every game, anime and movie out there and in the end, his retard way of acting comes to bite his ass and dooms the world, which is what would probably happen if the fate of the world was in the hands of a stubborn brute who can't see anything beyond simplistic ideas.

When the "complicated stuff is"

>people suffer so I will kill all the people to stop suffering!

I don't blame the hero for disregarding it.

that LN with MC is sister is some kind of cthulu abomination?

You make a good point, a shame taro won't bring him back for that karmic justice, would love to see that.

That was the main reason I couldn't take Heaven's Feel seriously

Yay, Shirou learned his own worth and went out of Kiritsugu's shadow! And he's going to sacrifice himself and the whole fucking world because of his fanatical devotion to a single girl who he only suddenly loves because of plot contrivance!

I don't remember Nyaruko being an imouto.

>Antagonist: I have some sort of strange view of how things should be because *bad thing* happened therefor I'm allowed to murder people!

stepped out of his shadow, not his spectrum of autism

>I think someone shooting you is amoral
Depends on the circumstances and society. Moral is relative exactly because of this, you can't simply answer ''X is wrong'', ''Y is right'', It's based on things like personal perspective, society consensus, culture, circumstance, time period and so on.
But what I'm saying is exactly that moral isn't objective, which is why the MC thinking of himself as always being on the right side and replying to the villain's arguments with his fists instead of counter arguments AND fists is stupid.

>For once I'd like to see someone go "I don't care, I need to save/stop X no matter what!" and cause a fucking catastrophe in the process.
That's basically Nier . I'm pretty there's anime examples as well, I just can't remember right now.

You just need friends

no the LN with magical academy and the MC has some kind of hero armor(which is a loli) and the villain had some kind of devil armor and the love interest has two guns that acts like a vampire.

>for that karmic justice
What do you mean? The karmic justice is that he and his daughter will die by the Black Scrawl and the whole world will perish because of his actions. The only one who will survive is Emil basically.

Kogami and Makishima is a good exemple of decent villan vs protag

please stop talking about a game I am too poor to play. cause you're making more interested in the game.

>OP: I have an opinion. It could be shit but I NEED to say it.

Taimadou?

yes!

Don't you have money to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360, user?

Every single Fist of the North Star villain except for Raoh

It reaches its peak when Souther working child slaves to death in a pyramid made on his honor is justified by him being sad about his master's death, and Kenshiro seemingly agrees

nope. not even kidding. im saving up now but I still don't have a job. plus ive never had those home consoles. just the handhelds.

Just wanna him to see the suffering he imposed on the human race for shits and giggles tbqh
Nier ain't that good to play, no shame watching a LP.

I actually have the game and want to play it so damn but but holy shit I do not want to buy one just to play a decade old game.

I'm just going to pray that Automata on PC does well enough to motivate them to port Nier to PC.

...

one that's not loud,annoying, and unnecessarily talkavite to the point they read the on screan dialogue?
are you recommending me any?

Get a 360 and mod it. That way it can be a retro machine too

>He's so powerful that he doesn't even have to care about opposing opinions.
Doesn't sound very heroic to me.

Just type in no commentary, should do the job just fine

oh ok. thanks

Funny that there's also a LN where everything goes to shit because the MC couldn't let go of what was right for his love and she goes crazy because of it.

More like women.

Ok /r9k/.

Well, you definitely should buy a PS3 once you have the chance, not only because of the flawed masterpiece that's Nier, but also because of other really good games, such as Demon's Souls and Catherine. Persona 5 is getting will be in the PS3, so you don't have to worry about that also.
>Let's play
Don't do this unless you have no other choice.

Well he did say he had no job so i went on the more economical route.

arent we on the ps4 pro now? but honestly I would much rather get a gaming computer

I know and it's reasonable enough. It's just that it pains me to see such a unique game like Nier being wasted in a LP.
>Gaming computer
It's much more economical If you don't mind pirating games. However, I much prefer console exclusives. Well, or at least I used to, because there's very few console exclusives these days.

He's not wrong though.

>It's much more economical If you don't mind pirating games
you could do that?
to be honest if I was to get a console it would be for nintendo. the only time I really wanted a ps4 was when jojo came out. nowadays its like meh, it will be on pc anyway. or this is just flavor of the month

>you could do that?
Torrent is a blessing.

>to be honest if I was to get a console it would be for nintendo
Well, you know what's best for you. I don't particularly like Nintendo games and their consoles are the most frequently and easily emulated by the PC anyway. But the PS4 is only truly appealing if you have interest in either P5 or Bloodborne in my opinion.

hopefully most of you are reading maoyuu maou yuusha, right?

I thought you couldn't emulate the Wii u on PC? and they said Sup Forums was a waste of time.

tried to pick it back up and catch up, almost felt like throwing up , you have to pace yourselves with that series otherwise half the stuff they saying will go over your head. but I im done with anyway , its 3some ending best ending in my book.

cemu.info/

It's still in experimental phase and most games don't run at a stable rate, however, It shouldn't take long for It to work in a more functional way since that's generally the case with every Nintendo console. The Wii emulator functions extremely well though, played Xenoblade emulated myself.

...

>ut but holy shit I do not want to buy one just to play a decade old game.
Maybe this will convince you to change your mind:
youtube.com/watch?v=NGNa6g7mpNM
youtube.com/watch?v=V1CjxQXXA7o
youtube.com/watch?v=oUn-kezLzeY

Guts in highschool uniform when?

damn Im 2 gigs short of minimum. for now but bless you user

>Main Villian: I don't care about this complicated stuff, I just know that I have to DESTROY WORLD!

After all enemies die, there is will be a piece.

You're welcome, user.

basically the villain of BNHA

shadow of the colossus too, basically an old greek trope from orpheus.

>What is a propaganda?
>War is a bad, so let's just kill all the ''bad guys".
Seems legit.

tripdubs of truth

Isn't SOTC way too ambiguous for us to say? As far as I know, the game never tells you that the being you're releasing is evil or good, it leaves to your interpretation.

I suppose that the trickster god aspect of dormin, along with the warriors banishing and sealing him away, and the sticky end of wanda basically sent me a bad vibe, but you're right, he could be basically benevolent in normal circumstances

Stupid reason to be honest, but fun.

Who are more right here the bad guys or the good guys or money > all?

Enemy must die is the only true answer. World is a cruel place, kill or be a killed.

That thing that makes me really think that he's malevolent or bad for humanity as a whole is the colossi's behavior. None of them, except for arguably the small ones and the last, show any aggressive behavior or try to do direct harm to you, they mostly act in passive and defensive ways, which makes me interpret that the colossi are benevolent beings, whose existence serves to seal the dark spirit.

I wouldn't call the MC of SOTC dumb and clueless though, he seems more like the type who knows the consequence of his actions full well, but still decided to go with it, because it's just that important to him. Also, I don't think his actions have such bad consequences, at least not compared to Nier.

Man, you're reminding of how good SOTC is. The ending is so bittersweet.

yes I agree with your characterisation of the colossi. Most appear to have been crafted/grown out of pieces of masonry, so I assume they're man-made. Wanda probably did know that what he was doing was quite wrong, as he is being pursued by the clan warriors *chiefly* because he stole that holy sword. I don't think he knew what was going on at the end, and was essentially sacrificed by dormin.

makes me think of the old equivalent exchange thing whenin dormin takes a life to give a life.