What went wrong? Lack of centralisation? The outdated concepts of a small but elite army...

What went wrong? Lack of centralisation? The outdated concepts of a small but elite army? Less rule of law than lets say England?

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youtube.com/watch?v=Fkr-U2yvYO4
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ibu-XGHUWYY
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TW_hcZCY6QM
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YEONLGOSnZQ
youtube.com/watch?v=3OoSdnebLxw
youtube.com/watch?v=IwwXJ8u7eTM
youtube.com/watch?v=Mvu0QrOcocY
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomadic_empire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Steppe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_European_Plain
theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/russia-geography-ukraine-syria/413248/
youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8BmESMY-8
youtube.com/watch?v=8sUG8IFcm2o
youtube.com/watch?v=nXCqD2D3iwI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Horse niggers with better weapons and tactics.

Polish people have bodies of Asians, maybe you should visit so you can see the difference between Germanic and Slavic.

>shits on nearly everyone in the world
>"hurr why is everyone mad at us guys durrr"
Do you know how stupid you sound?

Huh?

...

...

Come and see then, Ill give you a good beating with my 89 IQ hands.

Stop with these threads. The commonwealth was a dead country.

Polska kurwo

The nobility, thats what

No need to be angry Marcel. Drop your folder and gtfo pls.

>king wants to pass a reform
>gives free shit to the szlachta so that they would support it
>fast foward a couple hundred years
>king can no longer do anything alone
>all free shit is already given out
>szlachta sells out the country because partitioners give them more free shit

I'm not Marcel and I'm not going anywhere.

This type of thread is a "what if" scenario from 3 centuries ago. Only Poles do this shit. Sage.

>ancap - the country (almost)

>What went wrong?

THERE'S NOTHING THERE

so, im a polack then?

>polish people have bodies of asians

Poles:
>broad shoulders
>wide faces and jaws
>strong brows
>long and straight noses
>big hands and forearms
>full facial hair even if blonde

>look like asians
How do I know you're either a self-hating piece of shit, western leftist cuckold or a shitskin? Show us your flag and be done with it.

>Lack of centralisation?
Right
>The outdated concepts of a small but elite army?
Yes and no
> Less rule of law than lets say England?
When it came to laws, Poland-Lithuania was ahead of its time
Far, far ahead. This level parlamentarism did not exist in western europe until 19th or 20th century.

This topic is way, way too wide so I will give you a quick rundown
>Dumb kings
Now, Imagine this
Poland was fighting against Ukrainian revolt, Ottoman Empire and Russian Tsardom at the same time
While we were at war with them, our retarded ( Swedish ) king decided it's time to invade Sweden
Yes.
You heard that right, we were at war with 2 empires and our beloved king decided it's time to attack another empire. Wooo-hooo

>Corruption
Basically it's a copy-paste Roman empire.
If you know how corrupted SPQR was then you will understand the corruption in PLC

>Retarded government type with retarded rules and retarded reforms that led to retarded problems
Electional monarchy was trash
It was a complete trash
Combine our retarded germanic / swedish kings ( The worst polish kings actually came from either Sweden or HRE ) with our retarded electional monarchy and insane corruption and you get the downfall of Poland

Political stasis caused by excessive privileges given to the nobility. Any member of the Parliament could halt the passage of any legislation by veto.

>What went wrong?
Nothing. Just add hungry and thats the only part of Europe where things are going in the right direction these days.

>American education
Mongols were irrelevant by the time the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth formed half way through the 16th century (OP's pic is the greatest territorial expanse, about 100 years after the establishment). Also Lithuanians and Russians separately BTFO'd the Golden Horde over a period of 100 years.
The main thing that fucked over the PLC was never creating an absolute monarchy. The aristocracy was constantly squabbling and had too much influence.

The Russians are the Golden Horde. And way to read.

The Mongols are a group of horse niggers but hardly the only ones. Cossacks were horse niggers. Prussians were horse niggers. The Sup Forums-/lit/ commonwealth was btfo because they occupied a strategically indefensible position on the European plain.

>What is political science?

>The Sup Forums-/lit/ commonwealth was btfo because they occupied a strategically indefensible position on the European plain.
>collapse from within
> btfo because they occupied a strategically indefensible position on the European plain

Go away burger
No one needs you and your shit-tier education

You're a retard and don't know shit. Shut up.

...

Proof that too much decentralization and autonomy is a bad thing. France was also diverse in the 18th century but the French Revolutionaries continued the royal policy of centralization and took it further by getting rid of all the provinces and local nobility and now France is one big country stretching from the Pyrenees to the Channel Sea.

Bump

This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Germanics are slender and feminine, and slavs are literally war orcs. Take a break from Sup Forums and actually look at how germans and slavs compare in athletics and weightlifting

youtube.com/watch?v=Fkr-U2yvYO4
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ibu-XGHUWYY
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TW_hcZCY6QM
youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=YEONLGOSnZQ
youtube.com/watch?v=3OoSdnebLxw

If you want something BIG and more detailed you should watch this 2 vids

youtube.com/watch?v=IwwXJ8u7eTM
youtube.com/watch?v=Mvu0QrOcocY

>german, russian colation raped them they were jelly

He's not asking what if, he's asking why it went down the shitter.

Dumb polacks let in all the jews from all Europe, and gave them freedom.

Daily reminder.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland

They trusted the eternal kraut

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomadic_empire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Steppe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_European_Plain
theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/russia-geography-ukraine-syria/413248/

How the fuck do horse nigger rape babies not understand their own homeland?

They needed a good ally. They were surrounded by expanding powers who's most obvious area of expansion was them.
The only alliance in the long term I see working and helping is with the ottomans.
A France-Ottoman-Commonwealth triple alliance would have been quite the force.

>triggers poles everytime.

The European Plain

hoping to civilize this guys (see pic) was the only mistake. They literaly sold their ass to tatars and mongols just to attack poland that was feeding you and civilizing you. few decades later russia gave you a final lesson after you lost most of the brightest chimping out against PLC

We didnt actually need an ally, if we were an actual strong country we could effectively defend ourselves without help. Keep in mind that the prusso-austro-russian alliance was formed only to divide Poland equally because it was just a waste of space.

The reason it didnt last long was because peasents didnt have any national feelings, they were just slaves of land owners, they probably didnt even know somethin like poland exists, they knew only about their village and land owner who they belong to. In addition that most of land owners dindt care about this country and they supported partitions so they could get richer.

I'm 56% white and only have a meme education that I took out $150,000 in loans to get, but even I understand the impact of the European Plain's geography on the rise and fall of historical empires.

>American education
Except that's complete bullshit, Mongols never controlled Lithuania or Poland. The black outline is the greatest extent of the Mongolian Empire.
Your links also have nothing to do with your meme image.

You're a retard. I never said the Mongols controlled Poland. Mongols are one group of horse niggers. But because Europe is flat from Germany to the Urals, that area was always dominated by mobile armies that could move and strike with forces. Maintaining a defensible position was almost impossible which is why those borders are always changing.

It's east to capture a city, but it isn't easy to hold it. So what happens is that cities on the European Plain would get plundered, but eventually you run out of sheep and cows to steal and women to kidnap and rape. So then your nomad empire is forced to rebuild the cities and farms. Then once you've built something worthwhile some group of niggers on horses comes and rapes and pillages you.

That is the history of the European plain and any answer to why a particular state in that area collapsed between the domestication of the horse and the invention of the machine gun is overly complicated and obfuscates the real answer.

I think the main point is that Poland was invaded by Mongols like your map shows. And yes he's right, the East European plain is a perfect avenue for invasions.
That's not the only reason the Pol-Lit fell but it was a contributing factor

Are you mentally ill or have a room temperature IQ? You realise the PLC didn't exist until 1569? That is over a thousand years after the Huns.
>East European plain is a perfect avenue for invasions
But that's not why the PLC was disintegrated. This Mutt is spouting some nonsense that isn't supported by any noteworthy scholar. The PLC collapsed because it couldn't organise itself to face more centralised threats in the form of Prussia and Russia. There was too much Parliamentarianism and autonomous regions. The whole place needed to be forced under one absolute king or system.

Too many poles,not enough Lithuanians

Ukrainian cossacks were mainly Orthodox and Poles tried agressively to turn them catholic. If only that multiculti paradise of PLC respected minorities more......

My IQ is roughly the boiling point for ethylene. And you are incapable of reading.

Greek Catholic is best Catholic

catholicism is shit. If pope says you must be raped by muslims, what do?

>But that's not why the PLC was disintegrated.
>That's not the only reason the Pol-Lit fell but it was a contributing factor

So can we agree that PLC needed an absolute monarch or something like the French revolution, enforce one official language and one type of administration.

To Honorius the heretic, anathema

Liberum Veto

its not exacly true. Its true that plain makes it easy to attack certain areas, but keep in mind that there are many rivers and other obstacles that were helping with the defense.
It is a well known statement in geopolitics that: "when Poland is weak and divided, geographical location of Poland is a curse but if Poland is strong and united, the topography of this area is a blessing"

Mackinder 1904 - heartland theory - *adjusted to the present day countries "Who controls Belarus, controls whole eastern europe". "Who controls Poland, controls whole central europe". "Who controls both eastern and central europe, controls whole eurasian continent and therefore controls all the world".
All the geopolitical strategists in the world are taught this theories and pretty much every single one of them relays on them.
The geopolitical goals remains unchanged for every single country within last 1000 years, the only thing that changes are the circumstances.

Now you will understand the reasons behind Intermarium / Visegrad group / Three Seas Initiative

thats mainly theory pushed by russia. In reality the reason behind the conflict was smth related with bohdan chmielnitsky killing someones son or smth like that. PLC was just about to recognize full rights to the ruthenians (they already had ruthenian nobility). turning PLC into Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian commonwealth but cossacks destroyed everything.

>"Who controls Belarus, controls whole eastern europe". "Who controls Poland, controls whole central europe". "Who controls both eastern and central europe, controls whole eurasian continent and therefore controls all the world".
That explains all the Jews living there in 1939.

You are stupid. check this vids to get the real knowledge. PLC was exacly the same thing what USA is nowdays. Being a Pole didn't mean that you had Polish dna or smth. Being a Pole meant "having rights". PLC was a multicultural state. Jews were being oppressed everywhere in the west and Poland was granting freedom to everyone. We even had tatar refugees who in return for paying with blood (fighting in wars for Poland), were granted full right as Polish citzens.

And you're obtuse.

Prussia, Russia and Austria got power. Meanwhile Pole landowners just argued with each other.

>PLC/Intermarium being the key to world domination

So what's our common future for us East-Europeans? Neither Russia or the West want some united entity or string alliance in Eastern Europe. They will do everything in their power to subvert this area and divide it.
Are we just going to be used as puppets?
Belarus is firmly a Russian satellite. Ukraine seems has been left to the mercy of Russia.

What a shit map. Transylvania were almost independent during that time. Wallachia was a damn different place. I'd beat up the mapmaker.

That's what the Three-Seas initiative was created for - to foster Eastern European cooperation and put up resistance against German imperialism.

Here, read this ama, and other ama's made by this guy. He is a Bulgarian who used to work for EU in Brussels. He knows sooo much. *as an example check the date on when he said about macedonia (if i remember well) changing its name in order to end the long lasting conflict and than compare it to when this "news" was published in global media.

*** Long story short:
- ThreeSeasInitiative ends german dreams of MittelEuropa just as well as Russian imperialism. They will do whateven it takes to destroy this project just as they were doing it in the last centuries.
but...
- It is the most important intrest for USA to keep russia and germany separated from each other. Its basicly life and death for USA. Three Seas Initiative as well as V4 are pushed by USA with the speed of light. In return we will have to block Chinese and Russian influence.
- Western Europe is decaying for decades now and it has nothing to do with any of the unity projects in eastern europe. We are taking over the lidership in many areas.
but...
Here is the catch...
USA don't want some kind of Superpower to rise there, superpower that would influence both east and west to the point where for example russia would balcanize.
We will see what the future will bring.
Right now, the core of eastern europe is Poland and Romania. (due to manpower etc etc etc). You can tell things are advancing fast as our 2 countries recently bought patriot missile systems etc. there is constant presence of Romanian troops in Poland and vice versa. Here you have a vid of Polish troops being moved to Romania.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8BmESMY-8

>The Russians are the Golden Horde.
Pan-Slavism didn't start until the later 16th and 17th century and didn't spread until the 18th century. So your Russian boogeyman didn't develop until way later after the dissolution.

Mongols were not the only horse niggers, that you are correct with, because whether it is the 1st Goth migrations stretching to the Scythian territories or the Slavs before their first migrations which also source from the Scythian region, both groups therefore had direct contact with Turkic and Mongol people in Central Asia and got a few horse riding lectures from them.
However this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is why the Commonwealth dissolved, where the answer is the upper most echelon not having complete control over the nobility and the nobility overpowering them and trying to become their own kings in their own rights until dissolution happened.

Okay thanks of the info

youtube.com/watch?v=8sUG8IFcm2o

The next big step, huge "Its happening" moment will be in 2022 when our whole block of countries will stop buying russian gas and oil. The one that we will be buying instead is way cheaper for many of us, this will greately boost our economies.

>bodies of Asians
Wait
WHAT?

>Poland was fighting against Ukrainian revolt, Ottoman Empire and Russian Tsardom at the same timeWhile we were at war with them, our retarded ( Swedish ) king decided it's time to invade Sweden
No you idiot, you're mixing things up.

>memeflag

youtube.com/watch?v=nXCqD2D3iwI

Battle of Chocim - The 2nd biggest lost battle in the whole history of Turkish empire / Ottoman Empire

No matter how heroic and strong would our army be, we simply couldn't handle any more enemies. This has always been the case, they always attack us all together, never a honourable fight 1 vs 1.

>What went wrong?
The same things that went wrong with Spain. Attack on religion, ridiculing tradition, countrymen and attempts to thwart traditional, decentralised structure of the country

In Spain the reaction to that was carlism, in Poland, partitions. Enlightenment started a blind war on tradition as an obstacle to "modernization" and emancipation of peoples, and in catholic countries there was a strong reaction to this

Anyway, this country was always on the outskirts

>No matter how heroic and strong would our army be, we simply couldn't handle any more enemies. This has always been the case, they always attack us all together, never a honourable fight 1 vs 1.
what a bullshit. In 17. century this country fought with multiple enemies and won. Germans fought on 2 fronts against Britain, France and Russia, and could handle them all. Nobody fought only your "honourable" fights 1v1, this is a shallow justification coming from a shallow person who lacks knowledge about the history of his own country

Is this a joke? we have very broad shoulders and barrel chests

spierdalaj marcel ty śmieciu
>This is Marcel, a well known, paid troll. He will now post 100s of bait pastas and manipulated graphics that will show Poland as some african tier country. He never even changes his graphics names so you can easily check the Sup Forums archives with posts debunking Marcels stories

==========Sage This Thread, don't let Marcel earn any $ ==============

>and attempts to thwart traditional, decentralised structure of the country
The dissolution of the Lithuanian Duchy came as a result of the Lithuanian court not feeling that the Polish part defended them well enough from the Russian conflict and instead banking it on the Swedish arm for defense; which is a perfect example of precisely one of the biggest risks of decentralization: Lack of melded national value creating the risk of division from differences.

>We simply had no spare man to fight the swedes off.
The Swedes ON THEIR OWN wouldn't be a problem...

This, probably just a larping Swedish twink.
Most slavs I met (although quite ugly) were muscular as fuck, looked like ogres that could snap you in half like a twig,

lol, triggered xD how about you read my post you retarded ignorant

But the federal structure was dissolved in 1791 and the country moulded into one. The problem is again the war on tradition done by the "modernizers" and "progressives". This is essentially a counter-culture

This is the problem you had in Spain in 1936, which was a war between catholics and leftist ideologues. It's not only a political issue in narrow understanding, but a cultural issue

Surrounded by powerful neighbours, one century of almost unending conflict and nobility that liked shekels more than their own country. Lack of military reforms and political system that made it nigh impossible for shit to be passed also didn't help.

1791 was way too late.
Tradition is only proportionally as sturdy as it is proportionally difficult to make it fight against itself. Decentralizing administration is one thing, but having a decentralized culture (Polish culture and Lithuanian culture as separate entities even in the most banal sense) is precisely the major crack in the stone.
Our attempts at Yugoslavia tried to mend that problem precisely borrowing from the lessons of the Commonwealth among other examples by trying to imply 1-tradition-1-culture "Yugoslav" rather than "Federation of Croats, Serbs, Slovenes, Macedonians, etc." with the country name, but as usual in the Balkans we always do things halfheartedly and we didn't erase the religious and ethnic divides to try to create one monolith so the thing fell apart. Our fuckup was trying to base everything on tolerance of differences rather than assimilation.

- army was feudal based on cavalry with extra shitty infantry
- free trade with europe, economy was based on risky agriculture and grain trade with western europe, grain was the only relevant export and source of income.
- constant revolts
- 99% of population lived in poverty, cities were not developed. it was forced to import everything
- it occupied some russian lands, so russians were eating plc part by part, they conquered plc in less than 200 years.
- meme nobility that have lost connection with reality.

you don't get what I say. It wasn't just about centralization or decentralization, but it was the beginning of the whole "modernization" obsession. You know, french revolution, anti-christianism, atheistic humanism and this is what was being brought in by the "enlightened" camp

They translated Voltaire, brought Encyclopedia of Diderot to P-L, they ridiculed political tradition and religious customs in newspapers, they called a major newspaper after the british "Spectator", they went into universities and attacked theologians and scholastics as, you know, backwards and not modern enough, they closed a lot of philosophy departments

They couldn't agree with one another, because 18. century was the beginning of the ideologization of the continent a mindless attack on religious customs, this is when the idea of "laicite" begins to take its shape. Many of the enlightened camp were anticlericals, but not only on a superficial level, but on a deep level, they disliked whatever tradition and religion there existed, similarly to jacobins in France, only they were less brutal of course and their actions were stopped by partitions ultimately. In Spain those "enlightened" radicals were called "afrancesados"

>hey translated Voltaire, brought Encyclopedia of Diderot to P-L, they ridiculed political tradition and religious customs in newspapers, they called a major newspaper after the british "Spectator", they went into universities and attacked theologians and scholastics as, you know, backwards and not modern enough, they closed a lot of philosophy departments
This was so terrible for Britain, France, and Germany, right?. Another problem with the PLC is that it didn't modernize fast enough, which is, once more, a consequence of being too decentralized and having a squabbling elite.

Modernization is fine in terms of industrialization and personal liberties to a rational extent (and as far as i remember the Commonwealth along with Prussia are two European countries that pushed pretty liberal and modern laws for their time), it's the Communist (Utopian Socialist) shit you have the problem with specifically which is what i was hitting at the whole time in terms of decentralization.
Religion is fine in the sense that it shouldn't be hated like Communists do it and it shouldn't be put on a pedestal to the point where it can't be perfected with change and modification and hinders some vital aspects of progress as it started happening with Muslims following a golden age of still unstable but a wee bit more restrained Islam.