What did the Apples represent?

What did the Apples represent?

Why is there so much Christian imagery when it's explicitly stated that humans go to MU (nothingness) when they die?

Why is there a unique kanji utilized to spell Light's name?

What is L's real name?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_ethics
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gay sex
it's a destruction of Japan's colonial past
the Japanese language is decadent and depraved
L

Lucifer Leliel L-Hazard Lawliet

>What did the Apples represent?
It can mean many things depending on the context they appear. In the case of Death Note most of the time it's used to represent either Godhood or death.

>Why is there so much Christian imagery when it's explicitly stated that humans go to MU (nothingness) when they die?
Again, Godhood. Light seeing himself as a living God and the savior of humanity.

>What is L's real name?
Lawliet

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I find funny that the anime tries to imply that Light is wrong when his actions objectively made the world a better place.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_ethics

Having your morals only defined by rules is pretty naive.

>the ends don't justify the means
７０％ ｄｅｃｒｅａｓｅ ｉｎ ｃｒｉｍｅ

And he also stopped all wars.

Watch all of the opening and ending scenes 3,000 times

That's because the story is written by a retard. In real life a Death Note wouldn't decrease crime like that.

>We will never have a investigation anime about psychological battles and mind games again
Say what you want about Death Note, but it was extremely original.

When will they adapt Liar Game and change the ending?

It isn't in the case that those rules describe inherent ethical truths, which they very well may.

Anyway, if we can control anything, then we can only control our actions, not their consequences. It seems equally naive to me to believe that anything you do can be justified by its (uncertain) results.

Editorls suggested the apple because it looked cool.
Sometimes anime is just more symbolic for the western audience that it's meant to be for the japanese, just by accident. Like Evangelion

Why do you say that? Maybe it wouldn't be 70%, but It would DEFINITELY decrease crime and the Death Note can with a 100% chance also stop all wars.

they did a japanese dorama, and a korean one too

That's why you can only justify your actions when you win, or in other words, when you manage to achieve your goal. If you lose and don't achieve your goal, then your actions become unjustifiable, that's basically the rule of humanity since forever. Winners are the ones who write the rules and get to say who's right and wrong.

Death Note only kills people who get caught and reported. So just don't get caught/don't get your face seen, or don't make it to the TV report. Which they stopped after a few years, so in the end Kira was effectively killing based on fucking internet forum reports.

There are so many ways to fuck the Death Note it's not even funny. At least the way Light used it, by killing people who've been already caught and punished just because "death sentence scares people lol"

Light is a fucking retard

Christianity is not the predominant religion in Japan. So it's kinda foreign and exotic. But at the same time it's common enough that almost everybody in Japan can pick up the references. That's why Christianity references are often seen in anime/manga. Don't think too much about it.

Killing criminals isn't a bad action by itself though. It's arguably a good thing and giving the objective that Light had, it was definitely a good thing. Think about it, what society is really losing by having criminals and scum killed? Nothing really. But what it gains? At worst, crime decreases.

If a system of ethics is based on what is essentially chance, then it doesn't really seem like a system of ethics at all.

>equally naive
Then both are equally correct, check mate.

>Death Note only kills people who get caught and reported.
He also uses the record of his dad and the police to get the name of more criminals.

>So just don't get caught/don't get your face seen
Except for the fact that getting immediately killed if you happen to get caught is something that would hold many people off. Of course, crime would still happen, but if you think that people wouldn't be afraid of being immediately killed by the Death note you are a idiot.

>don't make it to the TV report
Again, you missed some of the major plot points of the anime, they tried to stop showing criminal's faces and name in the TV, but he used the police and his dad to keep killing.

>There are so many ways to fuck the Death Note it's not even funny.
Except L only realized that you needed a face and a name literally at the half of the show.No one knew how the Death Note worked, which is understandable

>Light is a fucking retard
You are retard.

>chance
What chance though? Again, you aren't losing anything by losing criminals, but you can gain something by getting rid of them. It's a win win situation, the only reason to no do it are irrational morals that don't have any pragmatic sense.

What if they're innocent? Light probably also killed "alleged" criminals

People do crimes for reasons. Mentally ill people need to be healed, some people who steal live in extreme poverty and so on. A judge can accurately decide what sentence they deserve so they can pay society back (death sentence is actually more expensive than live sentence). A teenager using the Internet cannot. Light is essentially saying judges are wrong and everyone (including, in his ideal future, lazy people) deserve death sentence and that's all. Which doesn't really work, jail is a strong dissuasion force too.

>He also uses the record of his dad and the police to get the name of more criminals.
Didn't they quit the police? It's very unrealistic to think he could've used the police records all that time. He used the net.

>Except for the fact that getting immediately killed if you happen to get caught is something that would hold many people off. Of course, crime would still happen, but if you think that people wouldn't be afraid of being immediately killed by the Death note you are a idiot.
If anything would kill you (including small cases), people would just riot and do vandalism by hiding their faces as a way to protest. Years of jail are very dissuasive too.

>Except L only realized that you needed a face and a name literally at the half of the show.No one knew how the Death Note worked, which is understandable
People know it's about the faces. They all saw the reportage.

>You are retard.
No, Light is.
>I have a notebook that can do pretty much anything so I'll use it to get in a slapfight with an autist and kill indiscriminately so maybe people will become afraid of me instead of manipulating higher politicians to make significant changes

The Death Note's dissuasive value would cease after a few years, really. Societies where stealing gets your hand cut are not devoid of crime, they just hide their crimes better.

cigs and liquor, just like he said

If I remember correctly he only persecuted those who'd intentionally committed a crime so I doubt he'd just kill possible criminals

I don't think that it's incredibly hard to imagine a hypothetical scenario in which leaving criminals alive would benefit society. Unless you're arguing that Light was all-knowing, there is an element of chance involved. Also:

>don't have any pragmatic sense
>implying that morals have to be pragmatic to be correct

Means to a end, society don't lose much by losing them, even if they are innocent. But as a whole, society gains safety and comfort with Light's actions.

Thing is, if you aren't ready to do everything in your power, including amoral things, to achieve your goal, then it's better to not even try, as anything that you do is literally irrelevant if you don't achieve results.

>death sentence is actually more expensive than live sentence
meant death sentence is more expensive than perpetuity

>What did the Apples represent?
Humanity

>Why is there so much Christian imagery when it's explicitly stated that humans go to MU (nothingness) when they die?
Because it's exotic for them

>Why is there a unique kanji utilized to spell Light's name?
Dude kanjis lmao

>What is L's real name?
Something Something Lawliet

>But as a whole, society gains safety and comfort with Light's actions.
How much are you affected everyday by crime? Will you ever see a single on in your entire life?

Now, how much are you affected seeing hundreds of people get murdered by an invisible, arbitrary force that gets baited on TV in front of the whole world by a single guy calling it a faggot?
Anybody sane wouldn't feel "safe" and in "comfort" knowing a faggot like Kira is doing whatever he pleases

L Lawliet

>Something Something Lawliet
That something something is actually L
The guy was literally called L

>the Japanese language is decadent and depraved
why they don't change it though?

See, here's the thing. Apart from the more complicated ethical questions concerning a hypothetically pure-intentioned Light, the series shows us that he's anything but. Let's not forget that boredom and pride are two of his major motivations. In this sense, he's not really much better than a common criminal, if at all.

I'd rather wake up and not see reports of murders and robberies, if I'm doing nothing wrong why should I fear Kira?

>asking a traditionalist country to change their language

You'd just see reports of murders, robberies AND Kira murders.
Kira murdering people is scary in its own thing. It's well established he's not a benevolent and yet an unstoppable force.

>Didn't they quit the police?
I think that only happened when Kira threatened everyone, but you have to understand that L division and his Dad still had access to confidential files and more information than what was released to the media.

>people would just riot and do vandalism by hiding their faces as a way to protest.
Maybe, but how much time do you think that would last? Many people did protest against Kira In the anime, but it was almost pointless because nobody knows who Kira is and the killings kept happening anyway. If you remember correctly, Kira found much resistance at the beginning while people began to almost accept it as time went on and many people thought of it as a good thing, which is believable.

>They all saw the reportage.
If I remember correctly, L thought that it was only the name. The face thing was discovered later.

>Years of jail are very dissuasive too.
>Societies where stealing gets your hand cut are not devoid of crime
Except for two facts: First, Death Note is more efficient and fast at killing all over the world than any society ever was. Second, death is the greater and most fearsome punishment. Even people who are imprisoned for the rest of their lives are said to want anything but death sentence.

>The Death Note's dissuasive value would cease after a few years, really.
I think that's exactly the opposite, it would find resistance at the beginning, but after some decades people would start to simply accept it. People get used to pretty much everything.

As for what you said about how he uses the Death Note, yes, he could have used in a more influentional way, I don't disagree with that. However, you have to understand that he did what he did, as the author stated already, so that the manga could be about a battle of wits between two ''geniuses'', the moral aspect is secondary.

I highly doubt you are from 2006

I'm from 93, user

>asking any country to change their language

it doesn't work like that

>How much are you affected everyday by crime?
If I lived in Japan? Probably not much. However, if you live in somewhere live Brazil or Mexico I think that crime pretty much affects you constantly.

His real name was L, L Lawliet.

>don't even know what i'm talking about
Indeed.

Relatively, India.

>some unseen all-encompasing force is indiscriminantly murdering all criminals and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it
>still commit crime
70% is too low of an estimate.

>Why is there a unique kanji utilized to spell Light's name?
You mean a unique pronunciation? Probably because Raito sounded cool. The kanji itself is one of the most common ones.

user, i have no idea what you're talking about

>only kills people who show up on tv and have correct names/faces
>people who'd go to jail for life anyway
More like 30%

I've been here since 2007~8, if that's what you were pondering.

To which I still do not understand the relevance of considering the topic at hand.

>Will you ever see a single on in your entire life?
t. first worlder

It's more like changing a language in this day and age, with literacy close to 100%, would be a daunting task.

Light operated in first world only.

Depends on the change we're talking. I know Brazil changes it's grammar every 6 years or so. But a complete revamp of the Japanese language is too big of a request. Especially since it's so ingrained in its culture.

that's my point, I doubt it
you would have killed yourself by now

> I know Brazil changes it's grammar every 6 years or so.
Which is almost always, pretty pointless.

Fuck off favela monkey.

Watch, in 200 or 300 years Japanese will use a Latin like alphabet. Coding and computers are shaping the way language and professionals learn.

>you would have killed yourself by now
Are you feeling well?

You are free to doubt whatever you want.

So "the Japanese language is decadent and depraved" but let's not change it just because? Okay

Maybe but if you remember correctly, he started killing all over the world after some time.

I'm fine, thanks for asking, I guess

Are you? Why do you care so much about since when I've been here?

And how was that even relevant to my post to begin with?

Can we all agree that Naomi Sora episode was the best? Light outsmarting her was priceless and so fun to watch.

Because the guy was imposing his imperial japanese bushido morality upon the entire world when 'crime' varies between countries.

If Light was born in singapore, he'd be executing people for chewing gum in public, think about that.

...

...

>What did the Apples represent?
Nothing. They represent nothing. Even the author came out and said so, which makes sense since there's no interpretation you can justify for these apples symbolizing anything.

Apples symbolize death and are commonly associated with Greek Gods. Also, take what the author said with a grain of salty, manga and anime artists have a common practice of downplaying their own work for some weird reason there.

>just don't get caught/don't get your face seen, or don't make it to the TV report
And how would the average person find out about that? For all they knew Kira could have been a literal god who sent death from above.

>I find funny that the anime tries to imply that Light is wrong when his actions objectively made the world a better place.
I hate Light and he wasn't always right, but yeah pretty much.

It was a lie to push light over the edge.

How are the BD rips? I have TSR releases archived, does it worth to change to blurays?

True but you must justify this from within the work itself.

That shit made me so frustrated lol

>outsmarting

If you mean the writer making her do something she explicitly didn't want to do despite twenty minutes before simply to get her out of the way despite it not making any sense for her to do so, then yes.

How so? The anime made the scene pretty convincing. She didn't want to give her name at the beginning, Light tried a bunch of things but ended up outsmarting her in the end, that's pretty much the point

>Anime is about a note that kills people
>MC is constantly killing people
>Shinigamis are said to be the God's of Death
>Apple represents death
>Kira consider himself a living God
>Apples are commonly associated with greek Gods

> she explicitly didn't want to do
Yeah because human beings are perfectly logical machines that can't be convinced and don't ever change their minds.

Bullshit. The only thing he was doing was preparing the streets for future generations. He could had killed half the population but there were going to be more crimes.

If I recall correctly, she considers everyone (including those in the police and task force) suspects but gives Light her real name because he reminds her of L.

What did happen when the prohibition was abolished in USA? Criminals found a new way to make money, many people commit crimes because they are forced to. Light was just writing in a notebook and killing some fags, he wasn't doing anything to solve the world's problems.

It's not only because of that, he successfully bullshits her at the end.

Except that his actions do benefit society in the anime. In this case, it's objective because he decreased crime in 70% and stopped wars, so he did solved many world's problems regardless of his methods.

>society gains safety and comfort with Light's actions
You can't be this delusional. How was Light solving the starvation, the economy, etc?
He was just playing like a kid with his new toy and calling himself god.

The bullshit leading up wasn't convincing her, though. The fact that she's supposedly a veteran FBI agent. She literally only trusts L (none of the rest of the task force either) but gives up her real name to someone she doesn't actually trust. Her change of heart came because he reminds of her of L, but he's not L, so she still shouldn't trust him.

Though this is a series where they have Raye carrying a legitimate FBI ID instead of a fake for some reason.

>his actions do benefit society in the anime.
>in the anime
>the anime
The anime is the product of some japaneses, not a deep study of society, user. Light was only successful because the author said so.

> the starvation, the economy, etc?
I didn't said he solved all the world's problems, retard, I said he gave more safety to society, which is a fucking fact, as stated in the anime.

And what you said is literally irrelevant to any kind of discussion on the matter since we're discussing fucking Death Note. The anime tries to paint his actions as being wrong, even though they have objective benefits to society in that world.

> The fact that she's supposedly a veteran FBI agent.
So do you mean that FBI agents can't be fooled?

I thought the anime made the scene convincing, she gave her false name at first, he tried a bunch of stuff and managed to convince her at the end. You can claim that in a realistic scenario, she wouldn't give the name, but it's fiction for a reason and on top of that, it's anime, you have to use your suspension of disbelief if you want to last more than a week in this medium. If you can suspend your disbelief to be convinced about the existence of fucking Shinigami, then you can also be convinced that a FBI agent would make a mistake.

No, user, I don't mean to imply that.

I don't think the believing that shinigami exist in a world and thinking that a character has contradicted her own beliefs are things that I have to accept at the same time, especially if I find the contradiction unrealistic. In this instance, she never actually has to give her name when he tells her that he needs it for her to join the task force. She can simply head back to the station with him and take it form there with a verified member of the task force, not some high school student from the street. (While we also keep in mind that she wouldn't trust a member who was verified anyway.)

I recognize that it's fiction and don't take it too seriously since it's just an anime, but I'm simply saying that I didn't find him fooling her all to convincing, just as I didn't find the Penber revelation too well done either.

light pls

>I don't think the believing that shinigami exist in a world and thinking that a character has contradicted her own beliefs are things that I have to accept at the same time
First, people contradict themselves all the time. Second, it wasn't a random contradiction, he convinced her to do said contradictory action, which you can claim to be unconvincing, but in my opinion, someone as manipulative as Light convincing someone, even if it's a experienced person, is more believable a Shinigami falling in love with a model for example.

>not some high school student from the street.
That's all more reason to not suspect Light, don't you think? The way he acts with her and shows himself, it will make look like he is inoffensive and isn't a bad person at all. On top of that, no one would think that a high schooler is this good at manipulating people and faking emotions. Also, if you stop to remember, he discuss the investigation with her for quite some time. He talks with her and makes her feel comfortable at his side, which causes her to trust him more and by the end, he gives a excuse for her to give the real name.

In my opinion the follow up was tense and the conclusion was satisfactory. It would be retarded if she just handled him the real name without any difficulty, but the anime made sure to paint her like a careful person and that Light had a hard time dealing with her, but in the end she got fooled.

Again, you can say that's not convincing. But really, let's stop to think about the anime, If Light was to really act like the smart person the anime paints him to be, he would NEVER kill the guy on TV and L would never discover his method. He would also prefer to avoid L rather than face him. But really, if that were to happen, the whole thing would be boring as fuck, it wouldn't be interesting.

>don't take it too seriously since it's just an anime
That's not really what I meant. It's just a different way to approach your fiction

Just to conclude, It's funny because Penber and Naomi bits are some of my favorites parts in the anime, as I prefer when Light is more proactive in the situations.

If I were to list dumb things that I don't like in the show, it would be the entire Mello arc, Yostuba arc and the whole Rem killing himself for Misa thing.

Since we're wrapping this up, I'll just reply in brief some closing thoughts:

>First, people contradict themselves all the time. Second, it wasn't a random contradiction, he convinced her to do said contradictory action, which you can claim to be unconvincing, but in my opinion, someone as manipulative as Light convincing someone, even if it's a experienced person, is more believable a Shinigami falling in love with a model for example.

Yes, people do contradict themselves, though we have to take into account 1) the person themselves 2) what they are contradicting about themselves and 3) why they did it.

>That's all more reason to not suspect Light, don't you think?

I believe that because she didn't trust anyone within the police force, it would make more sense not to trust anyone in general, especially once she says that she only trusts one person.

>In my opinion the follow up was tense and the conclusion was satisfactory

I will re-watch the episode some time in the future and reconsider with an open mind.

>as I prefer when Light is more proactive in the situations.

I actually like a defensive Light. And agreed upon the final three things you listed, though I'm not as annoyed about the Mello arc as many others.

Thanks for the quick discussion, user.

Well Light was obviously diabolical, but it's left to the audience to agree or disagree with his actions. The people in the law oppose Kira, that's a given. But the masses agree with him, for mostly good reason. Kira helped untold millions of lives that would have been disadvantaged, shattered, or lost otherwise. DN never takes that away, even until the end. Even if the mangaka through Near state their belief that no one man should have power over life and death, they don't go so far as to devalue everything. Probably didn't want to overreach themselves, a humble approach.