Can Russia in reality challenge western world order or is that just a meme?

Can Russia in reality challenge western world order or is that just a meme?

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They can. US hegemony is weakening. They are well poised for the new century. Stuffed with resources the EU needs and they are a solid ally to many countries.

America has zero credit in the middle east and parts of asia any more. Their hard power is respected for now.

It's critical to remember the "western world order" isn't monolithic, it's plagued with factionalism and opportunistic backstabbing. Furthermore, the dollar isn't going to last forever and everyone knows it.

politically of course
geo-politically or more accurately, militarily, not even close

>Stuffed with resources the EU needs
There only redeeming value because their a resource based economy
No Russia will not surpass us because they are leagues behind us economically

Just a meme. This isn't to say it won't remain a strong regional power, but it won't be able to assert itself over the US, China, and the EU, which is what it would need to do to establish worldwide hegemony.

Again, it won't be weak, but it won't be hegemon.

yes, plenty of resources and a huge landmass.

No

Who won in Syria?

Yes.

Russia was, is and always will be poor. No shekel = no influence

No. Russia is a small player nowadays and is only acknowledged because it has nuclear weapons.

True. The artic is also melting and they've begun asserting themselves there. Shipping lines could move North.

Dollar will last. Only competitor is the euro and EU doesn't want US weakened. Reminbi is not a competitor for a few more decades.

Russia will go over Europe easy-peasy, as Europe is killing itself from the inside.

EU won't be able to stop the Jesusland economy from cutting its metaphorical wrists if you know what I mean. Murica is turning into a second Russia.

No, current russian elites are not ideological zealots, like bolsheviks, they have properties in the West, educate and marry their children there.

No it isn't. Its just a swing right they habitually get every 10 years. Obamacare did a lot of harm. Its was the only way to bring socialistic kind of medicine. But its cancer in a freemarket economy.

Hopefully they don't attack Iran or the EU will peruse a separate foreign policy.

>Be Russia
>Alcoholism, AIDS, mafias and prostitutes everywhere
>Somehow get called saviour of the West
I like´em, but their society is a mess. Nowadays they bring few things to the table.

Militarily? No way. Maybe in the future, but they're FAR from it at this point in time.

Politically, in terms of soft power? Absolutely.

US has to increase aggression against iran. it's just a matter of time before we get the right kind of control freak who thinks the hormuz situation needs to be "resolved" for good, and then shit will hit the fan pretty hard even if outright war doesn't break out.

It's not a competitor for the next few years, but there are many plausible scenarios that could accelerate its relevance, especially if the US shits the bed in Iran as discussed above.

I would like to say no but in reality Obama turned our military into a social experiment and invested more money in diversifying and pc policing than actual development.
We had close to a decade blown in military expenditure with no real results, Russia has done nothing but advance in same said time frame and whats even moreso is their military is quite massive in comparison.

All that said their recent small arms are much more advanced than our current ones, their newest tanks outperform ours and the only thing we're distinctly leading in terms of technology is naval and aircraft which is a massive advantage but if it would be entirely dependent on whether we were occupying russia or vica versa.

Were it us invading Russia, it would be a stalemate with no foreseeable outcome unless nuclear option were used or we were able to hypothetically use nearby nations for airbase.
The U.N. and European forces are not relevant, not to say that the EU couldn't muster a legitimate military force, it could feasibly be the greatest military power to exist but the current government is too busy blowing money on similar Obama-esque worries.
That said, Russia is a very legitimate military force but they are however limited geographically, however, they have access to numerous resources and have a surplus of available nukes to fuck the world twice and back.
Nobody likes the ideal of nuclear war so in terms of modern warfare which is purely proxy war involving blowing up third world shitholes with first world weaponry, they're fully capable.

Russia lost the game of thrones the moment China became /ourguy/

Russia is more degenerate then west.

>be retarded
>fall for jewish propaganda
>somehow have the gall to even type

Frighteningly for places that aren't America, throwing the world into chaos always strengthens the dollar

America is the world's safe haven because oceans.

Massive turmoil on literally any other continent sends a wave of investment flooding into the US and people panic buying dollars

I really think Iran is a red line for Europe. France is already sewing up investments there. As long as Iran aren't flagrantly breaking the rules EU will back it. If Trump launches the missiles it will weaken the transatlantic alliance.

Iran should be courted as power broker in Middle east. Its time we consigned the Kingdom to the dustbin of history.

At leas the Persians have culture.

Its just because hezbollah is just Irans proxy puppets, and Israel hates hezbollah, so then America has to hate Iran. neocons literally wanted to go to war over this shit, despite Iran being the one of the few decent countries in the middle east

They've been doing so since 2013 and have been successful so far. Russia always punches above its perceived weight.
For 40 years they dominated half the relevant globe under a retarded ideology and through sheer use of force. Then they lost 1/3 of their land, half of their population, 60% of state wealth to Jews who transferred it overseas, and any respect or dignity their people ever had, became essentially Wiemar Germany for 10 years, and then 10 years later riding the oil wave they are back.
It's still a shithole, but the near future now belongs to Putin and that shithole. They don't have to construct much, just destroy and subvert the decaying western international system.

But hey at least remember how triumphant the 90s were for us

For as long as our covert ops can persuade your governments to keep fracking banned, I guess we can stay afloat by selling oil and gas. Maybe even start a few more regional wars and claim more land. But as soon as those resources stop being in such a great demand, we'll likely crash just like the Soviet Union crashed.
Shipping lines aren't that big a deal, you still need icebreakers for those trade routes. And you don't save that much time to really justify it. Right now the only things that are profitable to ship through the Arctic are oil and gas that we export.

Not at memeing

>Who cares about economy am i right?

tradingeconomics.com/

Spain almost has a larger economy than Russia

and if the oil price goes down to 25 USD for an extended period of time Russia would collapse

>who cares about economy
>excludes GDP PPP
Lying to yourself like this has never helped anyone, especially American foreign policy.

Syrian Army

1) Yes, Obama was a total mistake, his actions resulted in for example war in Ukraine => sending a signal to the whole world that "you should not remove your nuclear weapons if only usa asks you to do so, develop nuclear weapons because usa words are worth shit"

2) distinctly leading in terms of technology is naval and aircraft
See, thats the problem. USA is a Sea/Ocean power. it lacks projection power on the land. USA can't advance easily into the land futher than into western germany. USA can't even swim into baltic sea as from the military point, this is a locked area. The only way for USA to fix this is to turn Poland into strong ally that will project American power, just like usa did with south korea or japan.

3)The U.N. and European forces are not relevant, not to say that the EU couldn't muster a legitimate military force
Its kind of true. We don't have real military force but USA don't have this force either. I mean futher than 200 km into the land. Also destroying opponent is not the solution. Sure thing USA could nuke China but the question is what happens next? No1 has the power to "conquer" for example china. Its just simply way 2 big. USA couldn't even "conquer" afghanistan and its draining lots of money.

4) You need to understand basic thing that is the core of the for example Mackinders Theory. If USA/World won"t "contain" Russia, nothing will stop Russia from becoming Ultimate World Power. I know that sounds funny for some but that is the truth. See for example Mongol Empire. Its the geography that defines how the world runs.

5) Knowing the basics of geopolitics you would know that USA will always have conflict of intrest with Russia. Therefore every single US president who declared "reset in relationship" with russia, simply embarassed himself.

youtube.com/watch?v=vuEJw_vUxFc

Challenge in what way?
They can't replace it, but they can simply hold out and increase their relative power once it collapses.
Which will happen, if things carry on the way they do.
You perhaps misunderstand them, their motive is a return to 19th century great power politics, they aren't planing to replace USA as a hegemon.

>US hegemony is weakening.
Russian power evaporated in 1991 and it never came back.

>They are well poised for the new century.
Their terrible economy coupled with their terrible demographics sure do make them the next superpower.

>...they are a solid ally to many countries.
If there‘s one thing that can be said about Russian foreign policy with certainty, it‘s that Russia has no allies apart from hopeless shitholes like Belarus, Kazakhstan and Syria.

>muh gdp says the amerifat
>shitty suburban house for two costs 1 drillion dollars
GDP isn't everything. Yes, their military power index is the 2nd most powerful, but i don't see them "challenging western world order", they're not communist anymore and at this point they're just a normal country that just so happens to be really big, packed with resources and well-armed. I don't see why would USA and Russia go to war, maybe as allies.
Amerifat LARPers with guns are making you believe Russia and America are two warring nations when in reality they're just having power trips whenever they hold a firearm.

Everyone read this, this is objective truth. I like you user

Military expenses as percentage of GDP are 5.4% for Russia and 3.3% for USA, while GDP PPP is 3.8 trillion dollars for Russia and 18.6 for USA. So absolute numbers for military expenses adjusted to purchasing power would be 205 billion for Russia and 614 billion for USA, still three times bigger not in our favour. And other countries in NATO also have their own military too.
I doubt demographics are of any relevance, with all those millions of rapidly reproducing muslims, particularly immigrants from central Asia.
You are right about the allies though, there's Iran, Syria, North Korea, and parts of the Soviet block. Maybe also Venezuella, Cuba and some other Latin American commies.

>this is objective truth
It isn‘t. It‘s what you‘d like truth to be.

russia will fucking smear american forces in a modern battlespace if ever given the chance

whilst amrikki has been focusing on becoming pozzed, counterinsurgency, and airspace control rossiya has been honing mastery of electromagnetic warfare. american forces won't even be able to utilize radio in proximity to hostile elements of this nature because the emissions will be triangulated and then struck with some manner of munition. to be employed as infantry in the coming years against a competent, digitized opponent will not be very fucking entertaining

Returning to earth guys, US military spending alone accounts for almost half of the world, so it's able to pulverize any army in one night.
But the army is at the service of politicians, so it is enough to win the cultural war.

...

Do you think corruption is native to only Russia? US military expenditure is larger than Russia's, but not by the stupid amount represented in military expenditure. Think dozens of Sochi's happening every month, you just don't have as much money to siphon of like that (since you can't just keep printing it out of thin air lol), neither enough well established """private""" military contractors and their "premium" prices.
Military is where the real money is made for our humble public servants et al.

feed me american airmen

...

*dies in bvr*

>small player
>largest country in the world

*chases off a raptor*

>Be Romans
> Spend absurd amount on army
>Get btfo'd by some Germanic barbarians
It happens every time through out history, a poor and more hungrier nation has less to lose and more to gain, while the wealthier nations get complacent and fearful of things to lose. A war between US and Russia is a coin flip since all war is. But the US is at a disadvantage due to it has a lot to lose and US military morale seems to be in the shitter as well as it won't be as simple as to bomb some sand niggers with planes 24/7.

*contributes to greenhouse effect*

The only problem Putin has with the current world order is list of Great Powers determining it, not the order itself. He did a pretty good job of putting Russia on that list already, and whilst our position is still shaky due to crappy economy, we are quite capable of fighting for our spot under the Sun.

Not openly, no, but through the backdoor with subversive manipulative tactics, sure. Slavs are generally corrupt lying cunts and Russia in particular has always been a female-majority country with a rotten national character.

During the recent Zapad drill they practiced invading Europa. Scandinavia and the Baltics are fucked. Germany would be bombed.

Since Trump wont help us anymore it is only a matter of time before they strike. God help us all.

It's a meme
Their nuclear arsenal is for defense not for making demands and that's the only thing they've got going for them

Is learning Russian good for anything? You guys think I can get a qt3.14 Russian gf with big tiddies if I speak it?

They would if they had a port that didn't freeze over half of the year/ wasn't blocked by a potential enemy

Nahh even Putin knows it. But Russia balance . Too much power in hands of USA is not good . Bipolar even tripolar world is better

You do know they will rape us soon right? You are next...

Trump will help but you gotta pay.

The Russians complained of their loss during the Afghan war, as did the Americans in Vietnam.
The cold war was not all about pan-pan, there is another way to win.

Its coming right back swiss nigger. Russia have always been a Great Power. 90's saw the greatest transfer of wealth in modern history. The rise of London is pretty much due to stolen Russian assets.

Their biggest issue is putting in place a successor to Putin.

After Stalin and Khrushchev they were run by mediocrities. Had Beria succeeded the USSR may still be around

We will pay if possible. Just bought some planes from you as a downpayment....

I'll be impressed with Russia once their space program gets in gear.

>inb4 muh Soyuz

Besides all the shit NASA has already done, we have companies that are landing rockets vertically on sea platforms, and one that's going to send a fucking car into Mars orbit. Getting back to the ISS is small potatoes compared to what's on our agenda.

The Russian space industry is in absolute stagnation.

>he think US is the world order
Dude, countries are irrelevant. PEOPLE. NAMES. thoses are who control the world.

You think Rotschild, Morgan, Rockefeller, Soros have loyalty for a country? Not even Israel. They create war between countries and system to stay always in power.
Who you think that give Marx the money to start the Communist Party? Yes, the biggest capitalist of all.

If you control both sides, you always win.
The one time someone try to challenge them, he lose in the WWII

As if the russians would want another chechnya + how would it be that much worse for us? Do you seriously think that the SWEDEN YES! meme came out of nowhere? honeslty if the russians where to invade i would defect just to save Sweden from the social democrats.

>Just bought some planes from you as a downpayment....
ja...sehr gut

NASA are great for stealing credit in big announcements. There funding has been getting slashed and they stolen credit on multiple occasions from the ESA.

Chill NorwayBro. Its not that bad, at least not yet. Trump/USA is pushing the ThreeSeasInitiative and "Intermarium" projects and we are preparing for inevitable russian invasion. If everything goes well Poland will have additional 100k regular troops and 100k national guard on top of what we have now. Our military is being modernized as well as Romanian military as this will be the core of the defensive. If somehow USA manages to free Ukraine from Russian influence, than eastern european forces will be enough to easily stop russian invasion without any american/nato help.

it is not. idk where did you take that bipolar/tripolar is better out from. I guess ur russian living in Italy. Only in the world with 1 hegemon there is peace. If there is more than 1 leading power, there will be wars in the rimland area. This "bipolar/tripolar" world is better is just russian wishful thinking to rebuild USSR

>Trump will help but you gotta pay.
No USA bro. You want to be leading world power, than its your concern. You have no idea how many people is questioning your lidership. If eastern european countries would hesitate for a moment that you would secure our borders, we would have signed a pact with China already by now.

Technically Russia has meddled in our society for decades and we are still seeing the effects of this today but to be fair, it was the USSR that was led by Stalin and the Bolsheviks. Putin has reformed Russia and is promoting pro-western civilization values and Orthodox Christianity is on the rise.

The Soviets have put us on the list of great powers, not Putin. They were the reason we got any say in international diplomacy, we've got veto power in UN decisions, and kept it by inertia. Right now the only thing that keeps us from losing any say in world affairs is the western/chinese dependency on energy imports, as with the fall of communism we've lost almost all foreign allies (and with them both diplomatic power and military bases) and our economy crumbled too with the fall of USSR, so we can't go the way China goes using their immense economic power to influence other countries. Oil and gas remain the last bargaining chip that we have.
If you even think about getting a mail bride, you are a pathetic permavirgin. But generally you don't need to learn the grille's language, if you are still interested.
There's some value to knowing any major language though, it opens up travel and communication possibilities and allows you to access media that was never translated.

Meme. Definite meme. Historically, they've always been weak and addle-minded, their climate their only saving grace in military confrontations. The Germans pushed their shit in so hard Stalin locked himself in a bunker and cried, only when they stole some modeling of Panzer IVs and winter came did they start having effective methods of counter-offensives against the German army.

They are, by far, one of the lamest countries in history. It took an overcompensating manlet killing all political adversaries and genociding millions of his own people to even approximate the rest of Europe and the United States in development.

Not to mention
>Beat by Poles
>Beat by Finngolians
>Pic Related killed a little over five hundred Red Army soldiers alone

Bring up the Finngolian hero 'The White Death' and watch Slavboos and Slavs themselves shit their pants in fury.

Andropov was pretty good, shame he died so quick.

>Heartland theory
This pole knows whats up

Russia is a major power to be certain it has a 1st world Military that is only second to the United States of America.

However when you look at Russia from an economic point of view, the picture is not as rosie.

GDP (as of 2016)
>USA - 18.57 trillion USD
>Russia - 1.238 trillion USD

US has a far larger and more diverse economy, while half of Russia economy is dependent upon oil and gas sales for revenue. With the fracking revolution in the US, this has put considerable pressure on the Russian Economy. US can practically give natural gas away. Russia need oil above $45 to stay out of the red.

Take Syria, Russia had to withdraw its forces because it cannot afford to to keep them their, Russia is hemorrhaging money.

Also

>Try to assimilate Afghanistan into the glorious Motherland
>Turban garbed guerrilla fighters on horseback drive back your war machine, inhibiting your expansion for the next century
>Scream in the Kremlin for that whole century

>But generally you don't need to learn the grille's language, if you are still interested.
I'm just memeing but I'd be open to the idea. I like to try everything once ya know.

>can I get a gf with big tiddies if I speak Russian.?
You can get a Ukrainian gf with language skills of a Neanderthal. Balance in Bank account is all.

Dont forget USSR was taking 75% of for example baltic states gdp.
>Oil and gas
Well and thats what we are afraid of the most. As we all know "the more you push russian to the wall, the more dangerous he becomes". Action = Reaction. Russia has been leeching on eastern europe for far 2 long, the extremely overpriced gas, using it as political tool etc it all is going to result in pretty much most of "ThreeSeasInitiative" countries not buying russian oil/gas any longer after 2022. Also Countries like Poland didn't charge a single euro for transporting oil/gas to western europe through our lands (commies forced this "great" deal on us) and this will change even though nordstream 1 is probably enough to fill all the western europe demand.
So like i was saying, 2022 will be very dangerous year for both of us. What will Putin do after Russia will lose so much money on gas/oil sales? Will Russia Chimp out or not?

Genuine best post.
Putin claims to be nurturing middle rank bureaucrats... Succession will be the biggest challenge.

>90's saw the greatest transfer of wealth in modern history.

Well, on this we can agree.

To be fair, we haven't had much luck in Empire building in the middle east either.

>russia will fucking smear american forces in a modern battlespace if ever given the chance

>mfw

World Order will never be. Russia is on our side over this. This is why Fake News pushes against Russia.

hubris tastes like shit when you eventually have to eat it

>Putin is promoting pro-western civilization values
like free speech and a non-authoritarian government? lol

Sure thing russiaboo.

I wonder what would happen if we ever revoked russia's veto, would they pussy out or would they put their man pants on and try to nuke us

The funniest part is how you don't realize this specific shill is chosen because it will probably never happen.

Pro-commie shitposters get to keep shitposting because it won't be proven right or wrong.

This is a common meme spread around because propaganda agencies were run by Andropov's man after his death.

In reality Andropov was every bit the man of the retarded inbred system Khruschev set up that Brezhnev was. Even Chernenko, who is barely remembered, did more to try and save the USSR from soviet politicians than Andropov by fighting corruption in a number of republics.

Not saying Andropov was bad, he did some nice things, and he was better than Brezhnev, but by no means was he the salvation USSR needed. And obviously Gorbachev wasn't it either.

It's a meme created by the globalists

this. russia is well positioned given its excellent diplomacy

>it won't be able to assert itself over the US, China, and the EU

no one can. not even the US can take on russia + china + EU

Could the USSR have been reformed? Why couldn't the USSR been like China. Its something I often think. What if Yugoslavia didn't break up. How would the USSR react to Islamism. How far ahead would the space race be.

He's laughing at you because you think the most powerful military in the world just sits around and watches Netflix while Russia, whose economy is in complete fucking shambles and has NO money to even compete at the level of spending that we do for advanced technology, would stand a chance against the US. America wouldn't have to send one pair of boots on the ground to destroy Russia in your modern battleground fantasy world. Canadians should really stick to what they do best, by continuing to vote in leaders who legalize sex acts with animals.

>Mackinders Theory

wow, i didn't know educated people actually browse /pol. 10/10

>America has zero credit in the middle east and parts of asia any more

the US is officially a rogue state and the largest threat to global security

>The Soviets have put us on the list of great powers, not Putin.
We were on list of great powers for a while before that, mate. Nickolas has taken us off and made us the Sick man of Europe for the Era. Soviets din't simply restore our status, they made us a Super Power. And than Starting from Khruschev we went first into stagnation, then decline, to the point that under Gorbachev we stopped being a Superpower, then we even lost our Status as Great power, and then Yeltsin, traitor that he was, made sure we almost seized to be a State at all, turning us into poor parody of one with bandits running free and no rule of law to speak of.

Putin first restored our statehood when he successfully resolved Chechnya Crisis, then, starting with his famous Munich Speech, continuing in 2008 when Georgia went apeshit crazy, returning Crimea and making Russia's voice heard in 2014 during Ukraine Crisis, and finally cementing it in Syria with the fall of Aleppo and defeat of ISIS.

The problem is that it all was, and continues to be, founded on what amounts to resource export economy, which is a shit footing to have for any state, forget a great power. Early on in his career he promised that we won't recognise Russia in 20 years, and whilst he certainly was able to restore order to the country, economy, that was destroyed between zastoi, perestroika and prihvatizacia, is still shit and will remain shit so long as we have neo-liberals like National Research University Higher School of Economics plants in Central Bank running it.

Delete This!!

>Country with most valuable natural resource stockpile.
veoh.com/watch/v127360482xdGrrMbN