Fate/Zero isn't canon

I keep seeing so many secondaryfags/zerofags on Sup Forums and every where else and it's starting to piss me off.
Fate/Zero isn't canon, so stop saying its better.
proof:

VN:
>Kirei is said not to lie
>Kirei said all masters/servants except Kiritsugu/Saber and Kirei/Archer died in previous grail war
>Saber said that no one knew Archer(Gilgamesh)'s identity the whole grail war

Zero:
>Archer is revealed as Gilgamesh
>Waver lived

Also some other dumb shit from Zero:
>Keyneth says that Kiritsugu is a 3rd-rate magus for using reality marble on himself, despite the fact that most magi can't even use a reality marble
>Kiritsugu is somehow able to fight Kirei (whose abilities are compared to a heroic spirit's in the VN) until it comes to a tie

Other urls found in this thread:

typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Quantum_Time-Lock#Primary_Branch
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Was going to give a rebuttal but you bring up some valid points.

Let's just say that fate/zero is the timeline that brought about EMIYA. Which is none of the VN timelines. And F/Z is canon because everything Fate/ is canon because
>multiverse

>Claiming archer isn't an amalgamation of various future Shirous (similar to how Shirou from Hollow Ataraxia is a combination of each Shirou from all 3 routes)

this also explains why Archer has knowledge of events from all 3 routes

>Retcon
Done. Now fuck off.

>Nigger
Done. Now fuck off.

butcher is terrible

>retcon
>retconning the importance of reality marbles
almost as dumb as:
>reality marbles are the closest a magi can get to 2nd sorcery
>iskaandor can use reality marble
>iskaandor isn't magus

Dude, FGO retconned everything. Right now "primal branch" is something entirely different than you're thinking. And the worlds of Fate/Zero and Fate/Grand Order are stated to "lie near the center" of everything. So FSN itself is not canon. Fuck off.

Ionioi Hetairoi in the most literal sense is not a reality marble, it is a noble phantasm that behaves like a reality marble.
It does not deploy Iskandar's internal world, it deploys a shared world between Iskandar and his Companions. The terrain of Ionioi Hetairoi is not the shape of Iskandar, but merely a dream he and his men share.

or maybe:
>HF shirou self destructs because he activates reality marble inside himself
>kiritsugu uses reality marble inside himself
>perfectly fine
also why didn't kiritsugu just use his reality marble like normal instead of using it inside of his own body? what would it even look like?

>using shitty phone pachinko as source
nice bait, user.

Is this true?

>using non-canon phone game to prove that original game/VN which started the canon is non-canon
I didn't know there were weebs on Sup Forums that actually like japanese phone pachinko

yes, a non-canon phone game is attempting to dismantle the canon to get you to spend shills to buy more in-game points.

Yes; ignore every idiot who uses the word 'canon' in relation to the franchise. Essentially - leave this thread, and report posters.

found the secondary/tertiary fag

>Kirei is said not to lie
Nasu said he lies all the time. Shirou is just fucking stupid to believe him and the VN is from his POV.

>Kirei said all masters/servants except Kiritsugu/Saber and Kirei/Archer died in previous grail war
He was lying, as in Waver, El Melloi II, existed as a character BEFORE FZ was published (-Nasu- made him in CM II) along with Iskandar draft. Because well, Kirei fucking lies all the time. Also he had no clue of what happened after he lost his Assassin spies

>Saber said that no one knew Archer(Gilgamesh)'s identity the whole grail war
Yeah, because Saber knew that Rider found out, right? That's just her opinion/views. And she's an idiot.

There are contradictions but it's none of the one you say and most got retconned by Nasu in FHA.

Yes.
typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Quantum_Time-Lock#Primary_Branch

FGO is the main canon or say 'core' of the franchise. And in it, Shirou doesn't exist, isn't it amazing?

This. Kaleidoscope bullshit got BTFO by the based tree branches.

got sauce for those noodles?

Every other human character in the VN has "abilities that are comparable to a heroic spirit." One of the chief complaints I have about it.

Extella. Labyrinth. New Mats. FGO. MB manga. All referenced to it.

Deal with it. You're the secondary now.

>have ability comparable to heroic spirit
>somehow not seen as a sorcerer or modern hero
the well made canon by Nasu, the best at writing inconsistent bullshit.

>literally caring about Fate/ canon
Fate has so many plot holes, rule breaks, split universes, undone canon, rewrites and ignored concepts that it's all basically moot, an amalgamation of fanfiction rather than a proper series. Why even care?

>your secondary now
>secondary= not having read VN first/playing non-canon portable pachinko and thinking it is canon
nice try, nigger

Not that guy but I can source the second one.
Lord El-Melloi II's profile in Type-Moon Character Material, released August 20th, 2006. Fate/Zero volume 1 was released December 29, 2006.

Because whether or not Zero is canon can change how F/SN VN is presented when they finally get to remaking it.

Google up "a priest white lie." Kotomine claimed he had the Holy Grail in the Chapel and he didn't. Nasu called that a lie. He lies multiple times in the VN if you're familiar.

For Load El Melloi II character sheet, google "fate/complete material II: character material." Iskandar (draft) is there too, and yes, he's meant to have been Rider's Master. He survived (so Kotomine lied or he didn't know). Nasu wanted to include Waver in the VN but he couldn't do it, he calls him "the one who will effectively end with the Fuyuki Grail War". Keep in mind that, because we know in some of Nasu's blurbs of El Melloi Cases and mats, he always intended to write a continuation with Waver, Rin and Waver's disciples in the Clock Tower against the status quo of those asshole magi. Zero served, partly, as his backstory. Apocrypha and other works have him meeting Iskandar and becoming El Melloi II no matter what, it doesn't need to happen in Fuyuki, it's one of the things that must happen. He's far more pivotal in the Fate universe than Shirou.

Do I need to source that Saber isn't a mind reader to be aware Rider found out who Gilgamesh was? It's not like he ever told her.

Published yes, but the character was older. He existed since his early drafts of FSN (after he abandoned Prototype idea).

FSN isn't yet confirmed a primary world, unlike FGO and FZ. Unless you want to say it's FZ sequel.

no that's enough sauce for my spaghetti, thank you very much.

>playing a shitty noncanon porn dating sim makes me a primary

kek

I believe Nasu retcon Zero status of leading up to FSN a while ago in article. I do know it has been brought by Japanese fans every now and then.

He retconned everything. FSN isn't even stated to be a primary world unlike Zero and FGO.

KEK

Zero's story is so low key to FSN that it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever.

He says it's a little different.


>In regards to the myth that this world follows about the conclusion of these two people, even if Stay Night and Fake are the same, the process is subtlety different.
>If I dared to classify the differences between each of the works:
>Zero has "the same conditions as Stay Night but the worlds are slightly different."
>Apo is "partially the same but is now a completely different world."
>El-Melloi case files is "exactly the same however the thick Sanda Maokoto atmosphere makes for somewhat different, rich, magecraft things."
>Then, Strange Fake is "the same conditions, the same conclusion was met, however for some reason the worlds are completely different."

In short Zero is a tiny bit off from what Stay Night was set in. Things like Gilgamesh and Saber clashing noble phantasms in a sea of fire, and Kiritsugu shooting a master in the head after his servant died (which Kayneth was sort of made to satisfy but does not match perfectly).

>thinking playing shittier non-canon portable pachinko made only to rake in the shills = primary
being stupid enough to throw your money at a phone pachinko doesn't make you any better
>shitty canon porn dating sim was the original
original = primary

>butthurt retards who wasted their already worthless time playing a shitty eroge

The etymology of "Secondaries" comes from the superior ability of these individuals to delay gratification, and thus receive two marshmallows. This ability highly correlates with success, education, health and weight control. In this context, it refers to their ability to wait for a superior release in a superior medium (anime).

>In these studies, a child was offered a choice between one small reward provided immediately or two small rewards if they waited for a short period: approximately 15 minutes, during which the tester leave the room and then return. (The reward was sometimes a marshmallow, but often a cookie or a pretzel.) In follow-up studies, the researchers found that children who were able to wait longer for the preferred rewards tended to have better life outcomes, as measured by SAT scores,[2] educational attainment,[3] body mass index (BMI),[4] and other life measures.[5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

It is not surprising at all that bitter "primaries" who are often unintelligent, overweight, and unsuccessful at life, would attempt to turn it into a pejorative, following in the model of "normalfag"

>inb4 'le redman spam', that only matters to good writing

Nasu is entering Lucas territory here what the fuck is he thinking with all these changes.

>posting years old pasta
Ew, stale.

...

he is already the Japanese Lucas

His been that for awhile desu
While very sad it is his work so can't do much.

>is his work so can't do much
we can nuke japan again

It sounds like he considers them separate worlds though that are just remotely similar. Which is way different in his previous talks about it being straight out prequel to Fate Stay Night.

that's because Japanese Lucas is trying to shill the fuck out of fate by pumping out garbage and saying it's canon.

Yfw you don't speak moon nigger and just ignore FGO and it turns out that it's essentially retconned everything and FSN isn't even in the primary canon anymore.

>Keyneth says that Kiritsugu is a 3rd-rate magus for using reality marble on himself, despite the fact that most magi can't even use a reality marble
You're not supposed to use a Reality Marble on yourself. In the eyes of a top-tier magus like Kayneth, Kiritsugu is wasting his Reality Marble by making an improper use of it.
Heck if he used it "properly" he could litterally create a space in wich he controls time. He was one step away from becoming Dio.

So yeah, Kayneth is right.

>Kiritsugu is somehow able to fight Kirei (whose abilities are compared to a heroic spirit's in the VN) until it comes to a tie
And Tohsaka is able to fight an actual Heroic Spirit with chinese kung-fu, while Shirou's teacher is able to make a surprise attack on Saber (probably the best melee Servant of the fifth war) and beat the shit out of her just because he is from a clan of assassins.
A magician specialized in magus-killing keeping up with an exterminator from the Church isn't that dumb in retrospect.

>Being this fucking buttblasted that a pachinko retconned their hentai game

Holy kek

>B-but its mobile
Its more creditable than an eroge

>Canon canon CANON canon Canon Canon CANON canon Canon canon canon CANON CANON CANON Canon CANON canon Canon Canon CANON canon Canon
Niggas
did you know
the japanese do not have a word for canon?
Any official content is official content.

user, it's gachapon, not pachinko.

money > credibility

Nobody gives a shit because Zero is a whole lot better than anything else in Fate so far (maybe Strange fake will be close). Lets be honest, Fate is pretty forgettable outside of Zero, with the only real appeal being waifubaiting.

Sup Forums only disagrees because Zero is the most popular entry (well apart from GO now, which is waifubait to the max).

Maybe he is talking about the feel of the different works rather than parrallel universes ? Like Fate/Zero is essentially the same as FSN but the world of FZ is slightly darker wich makes the world slightly different.

Also Even if it's all "parallel universes" it doesn't really matter. I only wish they went back to "normal people faced with incredible things" rather than "super powered heroic spirits doing crazy shit"

>Kiritsugu is somehow able to fight Kirei (whose abilities are compared to a heroic spirit's in the VN) until it comes to a tie

With Avalon's healing counteracting the massive damage he was doing to himself with his magecraft.

>Keyneth says that Kiritsugu is a 3rd-rate magus for using reality marble on himself, despite the fact that most magi can't even use a reality marble

By magus standards, yeah, 3rd-rate is fitting. He's very specialized and good at using what he has, but he's not a particularly strong magus and he only has a small portion of his family's crest.

>I only wish they went back to "normal people faced with incredible things" rather than "super powered heroic spirits doing crazy shit"
The story of Solomon is kind of like a scaled-up version of that logic.

Some of the japanese comments I seen about it see it as Nasu referring to Zero as a parallel universe that doesn't necessarily lead to Fate Stay Night.

I don't know what made him change his mind about Zero being Fate Stay Night prequel despite saying it was for so many years, but whatever. At this point he just going to retcon whatever he feels like.

Time Alter is not a Reality Marble. Time Alter is a bounded field that tampers with reality in the same style as a Reality Marble, but it is not one. It is just a magecraft inscribed on the Emiya magic crest. It is not Kiritsugu's internal world, which would need to relate to Severing and Binding.

I just take solace in the fact that FGO is keeping Typemoon away from fucking with Tsukihime for the time being.

Just wait for the Fate/Go collab event my friend. Your precious powerlevels are going to be torn apart to make way for more Solomon wank.

FGO fucked with Tsukihime's timelines pretty well with the whole Human Order thing. Now it cannot take place in any world with a Grail War.

Of course it's not canon, since it contradicts how Sakura has been a virgin since the release of Realta Nua.

New Melty Blood manga though?

Melty Blood has already been assimilated into Fate/Go. Just give up already.

Actually you're wrong. Ionioi Hetairoi IS a reality marble. What you're talking about definitely is a thing, but Iskandar's NP is certainly a reality marble. Aestus Domus Aurea on the other hand, Nero's NP, is the one that behaves like a reality marble but actually isn't.

But will we get F/GO characters in the new game though?

As much as you want to beat the shit out of Gudako, no.

Fuck. I wanted Riyo Gudako vs Neco Arc.

It isn't in the most strict definition. It is not a true koyuu kekkai, it is not innate to Iskandar's self. Rather it is shared between all of his men, which is why the bounded field will break if half the army is destroyed.
It's just a shared dream that apes the part. Very, very closely, mind. A united ideal is rather similar to the filtered concept of a person. But in a real Reality Marble the terrain becomes the soul and the soul becomes the world-egg, but the desert of Ionioi Hetairoi is not Iskandar's soul.

Thanks. There's far too many
>lolol Kirei never lies
faggots and I can never remember how to educate them

Who cares about this when Edmond Dantes CD drama will be out soon?

>I have never made H material

Probably something he chants to himself every night

But he did retcon Arc out of Fate and did cover this shit in the MB manga (which he calls a FGO spin off, by the way - that's it's value).

FGO wasn't the only work that 'retconned' that (read: it never was, that was just baka gaijins assumptions). The only remotely important thing to the Fateverse that happens in FSN is Fate route because Arturia is at ease so Merlin releases Fou. The rest isn't relevant. Shirou was never an important character to the history foundation unlike Waver, who will and must meet Iskandar in every timeline, even if he's not in Fuyuki because he will eventually change the Clock Tower.

>All this shitposting and falseflagging about canon because some butthurt about a mobile game

It's not like you fucks used to complain about F/SN and F/Z 24/7 before anyways

Is Fate the series with the most bait edits?
Because I feel like that says something about the fanbase

I dunno. FSN itself seems to fit the credentials because the Human Order is strong there, since all Fate titles emphasize humanity's will to conquer itself despite its destructive tendencies.

And since Shirou was the one who gave her that peace technically, it can't be said he isn't important.

Plus FGO isn't over yet, so I would say the other two heroines will get their shine as well. There is a ton of stuff he can still do with cameos with the Tohsaka Sisters as well.

Parvati when Nasu? Parvati WHEN?

No, it saids something about the hatebase.

These things often overlap.

It's already confirmed there's not a main world, just parallel ones who are gathered in the primary branch. FSN could be part of the primary branch. We have confirmed FZ, FGO and (in this latest campaign) Prototype/Fragments as part of it. Prisma wasn't labeled that way as far as I know.
Sakura becoming Pavarti would just made HF more and more irrelevant, you realize? Saber (summon) has Shirou's lion stuffed toy while Sakura or Rin would just slut it up to the self-insert. But I wasn't trying to start a waifu-route war (because HF is my favorite), my point was that the only event in FSN that was remotely important to affect the universe is Arturia's peace in Continuation of the Dream. This directly impacted the plotline for Merlin released Fou as consequence and instructed him to search a beautiful sight and write a happy ending (something he quotes to Mashu before he makes his sacrifice in the end). It has little to do with FSN in itself, but rather Arturia's peace of mind and acceptance to go to Avalon was kind of important. Time locks and that.

ONE of the melty blood manga.


Nobody cares about powerlevels.

> Now it cannot take place in any world with a Grail War.

Good.

Why would anyone want it to take place in the same universe as fateshit? Maybe there's some alternate pseudo tsukihime world that takes part there but the original doesn't and that's all that matters.

Pachinko is irrelevant.

>Fate/Zero isn't canon
Good, I never gave a fuck about stay night anyway. I wish it was it's own thing, not related to stay night at all.

Can't even refer to the Nasuverse as the "Nasuvere" anymore because it's no longer a shared universe. That's where the new canon completely lost me.

Instead you just have one universe with magic ghost battles and another universe with vampires, and both become considerably less rich for the change.

>Muh mature show for mature adults such as myself!

Nice canned response.

Please tell me you aren't actually proud of being a fate primary.

The first time we nuked it we got anime, is this really a good idea?

>Fate/Zero isn't canon, so stop saying its better.
It is better, canon or not.
>implying that I give a fuck about some shitty vn done by a bunch of hacks

Even urobutcher is better than this garbage

>muh magus killer
>muh edge
>muh darkness

>when they finally get to remaking it.
Right after that vampire/meme eyes of bait perception vn remake

I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's better than vn.

>the guy is literally broken and cries numerous times during the thing about his actions
>edgy nothing peronell

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's inferior to the VN.

Well if there was anything that is consistent, it's Sakura loving Shirou in damn near everything, and either refusing or being oblivious to any guy hitting on her. Was even outright immune to Diarmuid's Love Spot while even Iri, Medusa, Rin, and Medea were at least affected. I'd bet Parvati!Sakura would get a special thing where Parvati notes that this vessel has unnatural will towards one person. Sorry Shiva, though her bring that devoted makes her perfect as Parvati's vessel.

As for the rest I pretty much have to shrug at that. If Fate's True Ending is more "canon" for FGO, it doesn't matter much to me or invalidate the epic that the story of FSN is as a whole. I'd be pretty disappointed if Nasu did try to say nothing else mattered, but I don't think that is the case.

kys

I think that people exaggerate things a tad, but Kerry was pretty stupid about a lot of things concerning the war, and tries to cover up

The "cheating" with Maiya to punish himself for eventually killing Iri was stupid, letting the Einzberns experiment on Ilya in the womb was stupid, not questioning them more about the ritual and banking all his hopes on it were stupid, and not telling anyone or leaving any notes about the bombs he left under Mount Enzo to seal the evil of the grail was unforgivably stupid.

I mean, thanks to him, Shirou lost his parents, Sakura AND Ilya had even more hideous experiments done to them as grails with Sakura getting pieces of his wife grafted into her. Hmm, maybe that is why Sakura and Ilya have weird chemistry.

He made a lot of bad decisions, too many to name.

A universe with DAAs without servants

and a universe with servants without DAAs

Basically sums it up

But how else we know if Shiki can kill servants and Akiha can drain servants to become tempo!servant?