> 45 percent of jobs today will be automated out of existence in only 20 years.
> As a society, we underestimate the ability of the poor to make decisions in their best interest.
> We want to prescribe who gets what, how much, and under what conditions.
> For example, Michael asks, “If you ask a child whether they’d prefer to give a poor person a cow, or give them money?” They typically respond that it’s better to give a cow. It feels better.
> We are also hesitant to give cash for fear that it will lead to increased substance abuse, or lead to laziness.
> However, well-documented studies consistently show that cash transfers tend to:
> Cause a decline in the purchase of alcohol or tobacco. > Lead to an increase in the hours worked. > For example, in Sri Lanka, a study of one-time transfers found that men’s annual income had increased by 64–96 percent of the grant amount after five years.
> In Uganda, 4 years after a small one-time donation, recipients were earning 41 percent more than those who had not received the donation.
UBI is only feasible once everything has been automated. If you implemented UBI right now who would pick up the trash?
Elijah Lee
Sure it's Sup Forums but c'mon, it's Christmas
Carson Harris
Well since you're able to throw free money around, you can throw /more/ of it at the trash pickup job. Supply and demand could still work, you'd just have a floor.
I'm still hella leery about UBI - I think anyone with enough ambition to do a well-paid trash pickup job could be doing something better.
Oliver Reed
what is so hard to understand about kys kike. Those shitholes are not able to survive on their own and keeping Niggers alive with transfer payments doesn't help. Neo colonialists like you are responsible for the suffering of million of people who wouldn't have been born without (((charity))), or lets call it money laundering and robbery of productive countries. Again. Kill yourself useful idiot and take your propaganda somewhere else
Jacob Cook
It's interesting how it's the very bottom that it (maybe) works for - I've often experienced that a little success can give you the motivation to succeed more. Will this carry over though to where you /expect/ this income, where you're not grateful or surprised by it at all? Doubtful. I like Dostoyevski's line (via JBP his own self) that, if you gave man a perfect world he'd fuck it up just to feel his own ability to act. Also, people would be disgusted with themselves for not amounting to anything, not overcoming themselves, imo.
Evan Lopez
You're saying, feed one starving African, produce ten more starving Africans?
Yes, but, aren't you interested in the fact that UBI might just, a little bit, in some circumstances work? I thought it would do nothing but demoralize the recipient, like welfare does to American blacks. This is causing me to mull.
Aaron Gray
Because it's the first time I've heard of UBI working. One other experiment - maybe in Denmark though I'm not sure - was a failure. And, we're going to have to look at something like UBI (or mass sterilization of the useless) in the future.
Anthony Ward
If you already have a UBI why would you go and do a shitty job? If you just start paying premium for trash picking this means there's no way you automated more complicated jobs so you'll have to pay even more for those and your currency will collapse. You need full scale automation.
Cameron Lewis
Sometimes if you want to have a nice discussion you have to have it with yourself I guess.
Thomas Torres
>45 percent of jobs today will be automated out of existence in only 20 years.
that's a very big claim, amd im pretty sure that equates to a study taken in a few highly developed western countries.
give someone a job even if it is digging ditches for the sake of it and it gives people a sense of purpose.
in africa they say if you do not work you do not eat. they want to work too,
looks like everyone will watch anime and shitpost in the future sadly.
Adrian Robinson
? No, why? Doesn't mean you can buy the latest brain plugins or trips to other countries. Just that you have insect protein keeping you from starving.
Adrian Hernandez
I can /totally/ see shitposting as being a major pastime in the future - we all know that it is already.
Ditch digging is kind of back-breaking work, for just a sense of purpose. We'll see how it all unfolds - maybe not too much to say about it yet I guess.
Jordan Myers
>"Free shit well received," say researchers. Fascinating
Joseph Sullivan
>Sometimes if you want to have a nice discussion you have to have it with yourself I guess. I find erotic stories more to my liking.
Cooper Wilson
Uh, no, you still have to reach a minimum standard of living in order for UBI to be UBI. If it's only enough to keep you in a coma drinking cockroach protein then it isn't really UBI the same way minimum wage can't be 5$ a month even though that would be enough to buy you a cockroach a day or whatever. Assuming I have the neet life with UBI why would I go out of my way to pick up the trash, unless you severely raise the wages which would cause the collapse of the economy and of UBI itself due to the inflation mentioned earlier?
Robert Evans
People who want to make more than just the UBI.
Cameron Lopez
Not everyone would be content to sit in a commie block playing video games all day and living off ramen.
Cooper Rodriguez
So, when are you moving to Africa to take advantage of this wonderful social program?
Julian Perez
Fuck it, bring it on. 1) It's not like I wouldn't WANT it to work. 2) It's not like I haven't been trying to push society over a cliff anyways.
Asher Lopez
Yea so instead of getting a proper job or wait for one while you're being paid to be a neet you would rather go pick up nigger trash filled with cockroaches and AIDS that you need 1 week of showering 10 times a day to feel like you're finally clean. Just so you can have a few more cents. Makes sense.
Andrew Walker
There are communities in the US that use collectively owned business assets to fund basic income programs for their members - Indian tribes with casinos. But overall it hasn't improved tribal members lives, and in many cases lead to more tribal members in poverty; it kills the incentive for young Indians to get the entry level jobs one needs to get a better job later on.
And these reservations end up having to hire non-tribe members to work at the casinos & other businesses while there are plenty of tribe members doing nothing, which does not bode well for applying these programs to a whole nation.
Alexander Carter
Well, along with the inflation would be /deflation/, an increase in goods. Ie, the economy just got richer. Remember, robots are doing all the work.
Benjamin Morgan
>robots are doing all the work.
What? We started this by saying jobs are not automated yet, so that's false. As I said earlier UBI would be fine if there was full automation. If there was full automation then it wouldn't matter if you want to pick the trash or not since a robot would do it for you anyways.
Christopher Fisher
Lmao only low iq retards can't get a job that pays over 100K (only way you can support a family). I'm not trying to give away my money senpai because you didn't study in your younger years, go to a great college, and get a good job
Austin Price
Good post! I suppose Saudi Arabia's example is along the same lines.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of - that when you really are sated, you just lose ambition and any reason to make anything of yourself.
Ok sure, UBI takes you above cockroaches. But what if they're flavorful, savory /bars/? Peanut butter, cookie dough, beefsteak, whatever? But there would always be things too expensive for UBI, because of lack of materials if nothing else. Trips to the moon, say, or a more spacious apartment.
Jayden Martinez
> in 20 years, 45% of jobs will be lost. Plebs who don't go above the UBI will be stuck with boring food, and small accommodations. Probably. But as long as the earth is finite, there will be plenty of 'dynamic range' of rewards, to induce people to do work.
Jose Hernandez
I have been trying to tell the white nationalist who want to deport all non whites from western countries with force regardless of citizenship that AI/automation could completely fix the problem over night once it gets distributed to the 3rd world. Think about it, why does a Somalia go to Europe, well, his country is a shit hole but with mass Automation and future tech like embryo selection by IQ, that desire to go to Europe will be completely eliminated. All white nationalist have to do is have patience and by 2030 the race problem will solve itself.
Logan Baker
Also, an argument is, they could make their skin white etc etc. A counter argument I've seen is that this would be available only to the rich, which is true, at least at first.
I don't know, I'm selfish, but I don't want to see brown people around me no matter how smart they are. And I don't believe it will be as quick as 2030.
Carson Diaz
Give me UBI and 100% I will quit my job, sell my car (keep my motorcycle) move to some old person's extra bedroom, subscribe to some video game like WOW or something and spend the bare minimum on sustaining my life.
I would contribute zero to society. I would not even sweep the sidewalk in front of the old people's house.
I hate working, if you didn't guess.
Christopher Roberts
>Let's copy africa
Don't see how this could go wrong.
Jack Lee
I get what your point is but your examples are trivial. If everything was automated and managed by a superAI with some sort of unlimited energy source, traveling to the moon would be trivial. Your point is that human greed or ambition (not saying these are negative traits) will always exist so you would always want that which you can not have. That's probably true but it depends on the power of the ideologies that dominate a post-UBI post-superAI culture and it really is a completely different topic than discussing if you would do shitty jobs like cleaning african restaurant toilets when you could just save up your neetUBIbux in the current state of affairs. We either discuss one or the other. Picking up the trash in that utopian world would be absurd since the value of your work would be close to nothing because a robot is already able to do it (probably better) than you, so you might as well aim higher. In the current world if you just implemented UBI without automating everything you would end up having to raise the pay for shitty jobs which in turn would force you to up the pay for all jobs which would cause you to having to raise UBI and this cycle would go on until the economy collapsed. Mixing both worlds just makes the conversation harder so I assume we're keeping the utopian fully-automated world out of this?
>in 20 years, 45% of jobs will be lost
Speculation.
Carter Brown
>year 1850 "50 percent of jobs will be lost due to automation in the next 20 years, better give free shit to all the scum sucking parasites!"
Matthew Hughes
>By the year 2000 everything will be automated, people will go around in flying cars and jetpacks
t. 1950
Thomas Robinson
Well, almost every culture round the world considers European features to be the most attractive ones; if wide spread genetic engineering becomes available I expect that children will get whiter & whiter looking each generation.
Thomas Fisher
If you had any intelligence (I know you do) you'd get tired of it, or you'd want to socialize.
I can remember wishing I was a goldfish or an auto mechanic when I was doing hard homework at 4am one night. Just find a better job.
You know, the future may be like an old-folks home, with organized physical, mental, and social activities to keep people occupied. *shudder*
Jack Martinez
Socialists cherry picking whatever studies they can to push their agenda.
Socialism is the opposite of freedom an d prosperity.
Leo Diaz
The trash pickup example was, I assume, someone's (yours) example of an undesirable job that can't be automated yet (in 20 years, whatever). Dealing with the intermediate state, before complete automation. The argument was, why could motivate anyone do such a job if they can live in VR and live and be fed? It was just an example. If no need for such jobs exists, well there's no need for that whole line of argument.
> want that which you can not have. ... it depends on the power of the ideologies that dominate a post-UBI post-superAI culture
Nah, I think it's human nature. Fuck, African Americans live better than African kings of old and they'll never be happy.
> up pay for shitty jobs yes > up pay for all jobs ok, we have so much 'money' that we give it away - UBI. > up UBI No - why? Their needs are met, they've opted out. If they want more they have to work for it.
>>in 20 years, 45% of jobs will be lost >Speculation. Yes, of course - that's just what the article posits. It's not hard to imagine something like that so we go with it.
Ayden Collins
THIS IS NOT UBI. THIS IS CHARITABLE WEALTH DISTRIBUTION. UBI MUST BE GENERATED WITHIN THE COUNTRY, NOT FROM OUT OF IT.
This study literally says, "We gave a bunch of people large amounts of money across the world and they are spending it! UBI WORKS!"
