Can we have a serious discussion about Climate change and USA ?

What Burgers here think about Global Warming and what will happen in the next decades about climate ?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene
armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-coldest-winter-20172018/
armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-sun-is-cooling-faster-than-anyone-suspected/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Proof doesn't really exist. Scientific data literally doesn't go back very far. The Sahara has grass on it every 10k years. We're on a spinning rock in space and the rock is full of lava and it get hit with rocks and shit all the time. The climate literally always changes..and has always. There isn't proof we're doing jack shit.

Hedging bets is fine. But you don't go and send everyone back to the dark ages with watermelon commie taxes to achieve it.

For example if you tax companies (carbon taxation) then they shift the price to the people.. it doesn't fix shit.. it literally can only serve to increase cost for people

The best bet is to allow capitalism to find and create solutions and not be hampered by retarded commie schemes and forced green bullshit like batteries. Battery powered cars are a solid example of something that sounds good on paper but literally does more harm than it does good to the environment.

Stay out of the fucking echo chamber virtue signalling circle jerk

Climate changes all the time, it's hard to say if the current changes are due to human activity. Environmentalists fucked up by allowing the Left to turn it into an anti-western argument.

Does it matter? Maybe. Can we stop people all around the world from wanting to improve their lives using more energy? Probably not.

Cold sucks. I'd love the planet to be fully tropical.

Every American with a brain realizes it for the scam it is. To fleece Americans. Only idiot libtards are buying this propaganda.

Take it up with India and China, our shit isnt the problem

I am not going to pay a single penny to your global tax regime.

If the left were so worried about climate change they would present their solutions without including tax, governance, or any financial requirements. And, no, throwing a solar panel on my roof or wind turbine in my backyard is not a solution.

So, it is not true that there is an increase of temperature of about 1° since 1860 ?

>t. gogolène, l'ambassadrice bipolaire

But we can't do nothing without money ?

Even if it's real, I don't care. Some places will get wetter, some drier, some colder, some hotter. The climate changes. It has ALWAYS fucking changed. 15,000 years ago Seattle, Chicago, and New York were under a sheet of ice a mile thick. Now they are not.

Retard.

It doesn't matter if it has. The issue here is how to tackle it.

Option one is tax a bunch of shit and send us all back to the dark ages. Aka left wing policy

Or.. let it run its course and as we see day in, day out.. companies provide solutions when the technology is economically viable.

For ref. See telsa getting government money to pay for battery powered cars that are currently far worse to operate on the environment than any other car available.

That's called.. fucking retarded virtue signalling, echo chamber, Prius tier ass sniffing smugness bullshit.

Fucking french faggot

What people have to realize is that there is no precedent for most of the processes that humans have imposed on the Earth system.

So you mentioned climate change. One of the main results of paleoclimatology is that the history of the climate is basically the history of the carbon cycle. The closest think to a precent for the current pertubation of the carbon cycle is an event that occured 55 million years ago and is known by many names ("Terminal Paleocene", "Eocene Thermal Maximum 1", "Initial Eocene", "PETM"). It's a rapid warming event, between 5 and 8°C global warming, that occurred after a large amount of carbon got injected into the atmosphere by an unknown source. As a result, oceans acidified, there was local bottom water anoxia in several oceanic basins, there is a sudden precipitation-/weathering-pulse, mammals and soil fauna in mid-latitude dwarf, there is a strong turnover in faunal and floral assemblages, continental-scale migration of animals, terrestrial ecosystems being kicked around and a pronounced increase in insect herbivory.

The effects of this warming hung around for 100,000 to 200,000 years. But with an onset duration of several thousand years, the rate of injection during the PETM was likely an entire order of magnitude slower than the current one. Recognizing that we are in a no-analogue state means to recognize that no one *really* knows what is going to happen. The Earth system response could be qualitatively and quantitatively different from anything we can observe in the geologic record.

>Europe floods
>Middle East becomes desert too hot to live in
>China floods
>Africa becomes desert too hot to live in
>American East Coast and South (Niggerland) flood
>Australia becomes desert too hot to live in
>American lower West Coast (Mexico) floods
>Only countries left worth mentioning are Russia and US Midlands
>ColdWarV2.webm
Sounds glorious user, have fun underwater

>But we can't do nothing without money ?
Until you present a plan that does not include a tax or some form of financial factor that will be absorbed by some global entity I say fuck off.

Global warming advocates never seem to be able to reach beyond basically instituting some global government to control practically everything with a carbon tax or whatever they want to call it. You are not going to get people on board with global government no matter how many lies you push or claims of the end of the world you make.

Enjoy your Ebola faggot

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Unbelievable

Faggot

In fact, it is wrong. The climate didn't change in the last 12 000 years and if the climate change, like you said, your cities will disappear and USA will collapse... It doesn't do anything to you ?

Someone seems angry...

So, for you, climate change is a fact ? And what are the consequences of it ? Do you think that they are bearable or not ?

But it is the most retarded thing to heard. People only care about money and without tax money, they will never do anything.

I think man made cooling climate warming change is probably bullshit.
But even if it is 100% correct, thinking that it is something that human politicians will join together and fix is something only a retard would believe.
So whether it is real or not doesn't really matter.

Hard take global warming serious when all the (((solutions))) offered by the left to fix it amount to wealth redistribution schemes of punishing the first world countries whilst turning a blind eye to China and the third world not giving a fuck.

Also, I live 1000 feet up, hundreds of miles from the sea, I couldn't give a fuck if you coastal faggots all drowned.

>See telsa getting government money to pay for battery powered cars that are currently far worse to operate on the environment than any other car available.
That's called investing in future tech. Without government assistance, Tesla would have kicked the bucket years ago. Teslas battery technology gets better and better each and every year, and eventually, with proper investment, we will see a much more viable option in the future.

...

>Without government assistance, Tesla would have kicked the bucket years ago
And probably should have.

The early 1800s was in a large cold snap due to volcanic activity, so of course it would increase from then. None of these things are independent events.

>China gets to do whatever they want
And yet they are still shutting down coal plants, while Trump doubles down on fossil fuels like a fucking retard.
>coastal cities can all drown for all I care
What do you think would happen to the global economy if every single port city was underwater?

>Sounds glorious user, have fun underwater
The sea levels have changed drastically over the last million years. They have been nearly 450 feet (150m) LOWER than they are now. If ALL ice on earth melted, and the ocean got 5c warmer (expanded) the sea level would be about 200 feet (70m) HIGHER. So if you built a house by the beach, then it sucks to be you. 98% of the world above 200ft elevation would be just fine.

(Just for reference a million years, is only .02% the age of the earth.)

it literally doesn't

>climate hasn't changed in the past 12000 years
Is Islamic influence fucking with French education? That isn't even close to correct.

>t. didn't read the rest of my post
The free market will not save us. Why would it? What is profitable about researching renewable energy sources?

>But it is the most retarded thing to heard. People only care about money and without tax money, they will never do anything.
So you concede that you have not ideas to deal with "global warming" or whatever you call it now without putting in place a "carbon tax" or some form of global government? You see the kikeness of your position.... right?

>(((You))): We must do something about global warming.... I mean climate change!!!
>Me: Ok... what do you suggest?
>(((You))): Carbon tax will solve the problem!!! Just take money from everyone in the form of a carbon tax will surely save the world!!!
>Me: How will taking more money from everyone in the form of yet another global tax really stop people? You plan on taxing them into submission? Also, where will the money go? Surely you do not believe the carbon tax money will be spent properly.
>(((You))): Oy Vey!!! Goyims just submit to our carbon tax!!! We want you to pay to save the Earth!!! We have no real ideas other than taxing you into submission!!!

Fuck off faggot.

Didn't Al Gore say in 2005 that Miami would be under water in 10 years? I personally don't think the climate is changing but if it were and you people wanted to do something about it I would talk to India and China first.

You're never going to convince people to stop driving, stop international commerce or stop them from using the A/C. In practical terms it's a losing battle. In realistic terms the Earth will adapt like it always has before humans were here

and the rapefugees are good for erryone, yeah, yeah, sure...

Go tell Chinks and Poos they shouldn't drive cars or have electricity. Environmentalist sperging out on western countries are driven by anti-white politics and trying to gain power by any means.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene

>the sun's solar maxima and minima have nothing to do with the energy of the earth
>the variance of energy input has nothing to do with the energy of the system!
Euros can't be this stupid, right?

>98% of the world above 200ft elevation would be just fine.
Retarded
Short sighted
What would happen to the global economy if every single port city was flooded?

Maybe read the fucking posts you replied to, especaially this part:
>Climate changes all the time

What I'd like to know is how the paris climate agreement is supposed to solve anything when it classifies china as a "developing nation" and gives them huge leeway in enforcing any of the regulations.

Sure.

The world has natural warming and cooling cycles. The world has had many ice ages and warming cycles.

The world as we know it is cooler than it usually is. Now we're warming up.

But this doesn't work for all of human civilization. This will result in higher tides and most of the third world lives around bodies of water or in arid environments.

Jews want to destroy western civilization and replace it with a mass of slave workers whose time is worth nothing and who have no religion, culture or ethnicity in common to join together against them. The next great immigration cycle will be blamed on wealthy westerners who "caused" this warming and are killing the endless hordes of third worlderers. This extreme guilt is far beyond even what Syria is, which shouldn't even exist had the Jews not toppled the power force of North Africa and the Middle East, Libya.

So there was no such thing as the medieval warming period, nor the migration in the Roman Empire that shows it to have happened.

Nor did doggerland exist, right?
>euros imply a fucking epoch is the same as climate
My fucking sides.

Carbon tax would be a deterrent to companies who emit tons of CO2 into the air every year. The tax money would go into researching renewable energy sources. What about this is so difficult to understand?

(((climate change)))

I read the rest of your post. I get it, you are a Tesla fan boy that thinks if you throw enough money at anything you will be able to buy the outcome you want.
I don't think the free market will fix it if it exists. Nor do I think governments will. Your average believer doesn't really do shit personally to make a real impact either.

>if it were and you people wanted to do something about it I would talk to India and China first.
They will not go after China or India first because China and India doesn't give a fuck. Both have the occasional "green movement" style publicity stunt but nothing real. China would love nothing more than arresting some "eco terrorist" trying to make trouble.

Seriously, these climate change pushers know they can guilt some Americans and Europeans into accepting their carbon tax regime but outside the West they have no power. It is all a sham.

>Didn't Al Gore say in 2005 that Miami would be under water in 10 years?
No, no he didnt.

This.

It's really not a question of either if it is actually happening or if it's due to human activity. I just don't think any of the proposed solutions would actually work.

the effects of maxima and minima of the solar cycle are so small, that they're barely detectable. And solar output has remained invariant over the time interval in question.

I'm just repeating myself here because both of these points are easily discernible from the graph I posted.

the planet goes through natural heating and cooling cycles.
Man has little to no impact on the planet. It's a jewish ponzi scheme designed to pass carbon tax globally.

USA have the most prodigal way to use energy

If all people were living like Americans, it would require 10 planets.

No, I didn't say that tax is the only way, but that people will not spontaneously care about something if their money is not part of the party

You're not even able to read an article of Wikipedia

t.american education

>The tax money would go into researching renewable energy sources.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure.

The part where a government entity can avoid corruption to distribute money taken from companies based on an unproven theory.

Did you know water has almost 8x the warming effect carbon does? When are we going to regulate steam?

>In fact, it is wrong. The climate didn't change in the last 12 000 years and if the climate change, like you said, your cities will disappear and USA will collapse... It doesn't do anything to you ?
An anonymous French fag told me I'm wrong on the internet with no references. Me BTFO! Cites HAVE disappeared you fucking retard. There are thousands of ruins form "sunken cities" all around the Mediterranean from when sea levels have risen in the last few thousand years. We have had 17 ice ages over the last million years, long before man was anything but a very rare primate.

I'm gonna make billions of tons of sulfur hexafluoride and dump it into the atmosphere so you can see what REAL globull warming is like.

Anthropogenic global warming is politically motivated psuedoscientific fraud that has become a religious cult for the left.

You are implying climate must remain static during an epoch. That is beyond retarded.
You are a mudskin aren't you? Only one of those kind could imply something so ignorant.

Oui, mais pas pendant l'Holocene

3 planets actually and dropping every day.

>slight tilt of earth is enough to go from freezing water to liquid
>solar cycle doesn't variate enough to affect global temperatures
I thought Germans were suppose to be smart. Use some common sense; how could a star so much larger than our planet NOT affect the energy of our planet? You do know that almost all of the energy in the earth's system comes from the sun, right?

Climate was stable during Holocene... Yes...

>Carbon tax would be a deterrent to companies who emit tons of CO2 into the air every year.
AKA a punishment according to your agenda. You will never get this enforced outside the West. China and India does not give a fuck about your bullshit agenda. They are only willing to give lip service. You will only be hurting the US and Europe.

>The tax money would go into researching renewable energy sources.
>Believes tax money will be spent properly when every government on Earth have long histories of misspending and misusing taxed money

>What about this is so difficult to understand?
So you are dumb enough to by into the idea that a global scale governance collecting a tax on all "CO2" emissions and that they will spend it properly... you leftist are truly useful idiots.

How about I say that this carbon tax and global governance is controlled by people to the far right of Trump. Still ok with the idea? No liberal progressive eco types. Would you be so trusting of your climate change and carbon tax agenda?

Why is it that all the climate skeptics cannot understand that the timescale over which the climate is changing is the important part?

We do have data from various sources (Ice cores, tree rings, sediment analysis) that shows that the current rate of change is an order of magnitude beyond what has ever happened in the last few million years, yet you retards always seem to brush this aside.

Stable compared to other epochs. Do you not understand relativity?

None of those time scales account for variance in the sun, which is so ignorant I refuse to believe it is accidental.

Sorry, chum.
Not everyone is going to convert to your apocalyticist cult.

And so stable

>No, I didn't say that tax is the only way, but that people will not spontaneously care about something if their money is not part of the party
So be a good climate change supporter and give us the world saving agenda. Go ahead and tell us what we can do to save the world that does not result in a tax that will disappear in the global "EU" like bureaucracy that so many climate chance pushers seem to want.

Apocalypticist...
Pardon my spelling error.

Nigger, if this is due to a normal solar cycle why is permafrost and ice that is hundreds of thousands of years old only melting now?

America spends more than the rest of the world on preventing pollution. You all can fuck yourselves if you try to point the finger at us.

You didn't answer the goddamn question.

I'm not saying there will be an apocalypse. That doesn't mean this isn't very unusual, or that there isn't a problem. Not all problems=end of the world.

You do realize the climate within an epoch does oscillate? To imply climate remains static throughout an epoch is to imply that winters must always be relative to each other in regards to temperature, which we all know is false.
Oh and let's not forget this gem
>stable for 12 thousand years
>destabilized in less than 30
This seems to be the hubris of human importance. We are not that relevant to the earthly cycles.

Because we are coming out of an ice age? Do you not understand epochs either? How did doggerland flood if not for warming?

Would be easier to control the climate by pressing technology to the point where we could actually control it than trying to do random things that we don't know whether or not they'll have any effect desu. Trying to stop the tide from coming in with a bucket is basically what modern green movements are doing.

Muh 11 year solar cycle is what's causing it!

All things to be done, need money, and people will not give money freely to make durable dvpt.

You speak like a millennial seriously, you want things to be done, without using money.

Tax or not, it doesn't matter. If people do not pay in time via taxes, they will pays sometime later when they will pay heavy cost for gas.

There two obvious differences between your post and the topic under discussion:

1) A seasonal cycle due to Earth's orbit (what you're talking about) =/= a change in the irradiance of the sun (the actual claim). If the difference between the two isn't obvious to you, one way to illustrate it is this: The seasonal cycle is compensated across hemispheres, i.e. when it's warm in the NH then it's cold in the SH (and vice versa), so when you average the *annual* surface temperature, this cycle disappears and has no influence on global temperature. An increased solar irradiance on the other hand is an exogenic forcing that would, if it were to occur, result in a global increase in surface temperature.

2) "The sun can't effect global temperature" =/= "the sun doesn't effect global temperature right now (at least not in a significant way". The first position which you are arguing against doesn't, as far as I can tell, exist anywhere.

>Do you not understand epochs either?

I understand that there are no data to support change ever having happened this quickly before, which indicates something is different.

Also, we shouldn't actually be coming out of the ice age insomuch as having a warm period within a larger ice age. If anything, based purely on solar cycles it should be getting colder.

>I'm not saying there will be an apocalypse. That doesn't mean this isn't very unusual, or that there isn't a problem. Not all problems=end of the world.
Thanks for clearing that up. Now that I know things aren't actually dire and I am being lied to by a bunch of over dramatic alarmists I now have managed the impossible and care less about this issue than I did before.

Even oscillating, stable during 12 000 years.

And unstable today.

>memes instead of debates
Typical of your types. Also typical of your types to not understand trends.
>temperature fluctuates throughout the year
Normal!
>temperature fluctuates throughout the millennia
Normal!
>temperature fluctuates throughout the centuries and decades
THE SKY IS FALLING!

Bullshit. The change almost perfectly coincides with the solar cycle.
Also do recall we haven't been taking true temperature readings before around the 50s. War technology is what allowed us to be so accurate.
>what is the medieval warming period
>what is the flooding of doggerland
>what is the Roman warm period
Leave it to a plebbit frog to be so ignorant.

What is the temperature of the earth, Francois?

Answer this you dumb fuck

Sure thing. Climate change is real. People don't make nearly as much of an impact as they think they do. People can't fix something our planet has been doing in it's own for millions of years. When you can make a machine that can start and stop rain at will then I'll agree we finally have the technology and influence required to stop climate change. Until then you just have a god complex.

Increase of 1C from what temperature to what temperature?

I am giving you a chance to outline your solution to climate chance that does not require the installation of a global carbon control governance with some form of carbon police to enforce the agenda and the best you can give is to claim I "speak like a millennial".

This is why your climate change agenda gets nowhere. People see through your scheme and they are not buying it. No global government and no global carbon tax.

Either present another plan or fuck off.

The solar cycle is around 11 years. So why does it track an overall upward trend? By your logic is should oscillate, which it does, but within a pronounced overall upward envelope, which is the concern.

Why does this same stupid thread get made every day or so? We are near the peak of the Modern Warm Period ... same process as the Medieval Warm Period and the Roman Warm Period. Go to the beach and enjoy it.

The whole point of the global warming meme is to ban mineral fuel use for 3rd world. So it will forever stay in pre-industrial or early industrial age and would never become post-industrial 3rd world.

Nobody can give less of a fuck about climate, than the current first world.

The ban of "green" politicians on nuclear energy and employment of ultra-toxic processes in production of solar panels and wind turbine blades clearly shows.

1st world must be glassed and all the first world elites must hang. Starting with UK and France.
Only warm island states like Monaco and Malta can go earlier as exceptions. Anything as warm or warmer than Isle of Man.

>Believes tax money will be spent properly
It's not about the money but the tax itself, used as a deterrant for oil consumption which in turn makes renewable energy profitable. The obvious problem is that an economy which taxes oil loses against competition, so it must be coordinated on a global scale. It will never happen although there are a lot of investments in green energy in China for example, those people aren't stupid so there must be a reason. I don't have a stance in climate change, but I think our main issue right now is pollution and the fact that we will soon be covered in plastic. Taxing or prohibiting plastic packaging and incentivizing glass, paper and cardboard alternatives should be #1 priority. No one talks about that like in the 90's and instead switched for this retarded co2 stigma.

>Even oscillating, stable during 12 000 years.

Quit lying.

The graphic first (correctly) says that this comes from a single location in the center of the Greenland ice sheet, only to then claim that this is "scientific global climate temperature" (lmao) with the added >le libtard XD meme annotations. What they on the other hand forgot to include is the information that the GISP record ends in the middle of the 19th century and that the Arctic has warmed by between 3 to 4 °C since then.

Meanwhile, anyone who actually wants to find out something about the real world can look at actual global reconstructions, which show that the temperature rise that has already occurred has already brought us out of the centennial temperature variation of the Holocene.

But if you don't take you own posts seriously, I don't see why anyone else should.

Germans are smart, but they love to drink the kool-aid.

>a make billions of tons of sulfur hexaflu
le French Merchant is like a little Christmas Gift to me. Thanks burger, and thanks for your incredibly hostile tone towards europeans.

>Why does this same stupid thread get made every day or so?
Of course you know why but to reiterate.

Those who push the climate change agenda are primary on the left and they see an opportunity to put in place a global carbon control structure based around their claims and enforced by what would be a punishment of disobeying in the form of a carbon tax. They want the global carbon control governance to be ruled by primarily leftist who believe their own agenda. Once in place they will literally have world wide control over the production and anyone who resist will be taxed out of existence.

Basically, the left sees an opportunity to install a one world government based on their own made up agenda with its own self funding carbon tax. Any resistance is labeled as anti-environment.

>INB4 Oy Vey!!! Goyim you want to save the planet don't you?! Give us your money in the form of a carbon tax and we will safe you!!!

Because retards in denial are giving arguments ?

You're unable to give one serious argument. You're just playing with the sense of word.

You seems like a big retard in denial to don't understand the concept of a global increase of temperature.

I have actually studied theses question during my graduate. It was part of studies. So I think that I'm less ignorant that a fat burger about theses questions.

"I want to change things without USING A SINGLE PENNY LOLLLLL "

Yes, you're a millennial

Holocene is the name given to the last 12 000 years and characterized by a very stable climate by scientists, by people that are experts in the domain of meteorology. They are FUCKING EXPERTS about climate and THEY FUCKING STATE that the fucking 12 000 years WERE FUCKING STABLE and so they decided to call this PERIOD OF TIME the fucking HOLOCENE.

So, fucker, I don't give a shit what do you think.

We're gonna freeze our asses off that's what...

armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-coldest-winter-20172018/

armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-sun-is-cooling-faster-than-anyone-suspected/

I already have seen many politicians, activists and retarded leftists defending global warming, but whenever someone from the non-Jewish dominated media lends the microphone to real climatologists, they say global warming is the lie of the century.

>It's not about the money but the tax itself, used as a deterrant for oil consumption which in turn makes renewable energy profitable.
So you are admitting that the alternative energy sources are not profitable/viable on their own. So you will punish/tax everyone into submission.

You are literally setting the framework for a global government based on your own twisted and flawed agenda.

>Yes, you're a millennial
Come on climate hero... give us the secrets to saving the world that doesn't involve you grabbing all the shekels.

...

Even if it's true that we are causing global warming (which there is some debate about), it doesn't matter much.
I'm with Scientists like David Deutsch who say it's impractical to try and keep entire countries well behaved.
If we're worried about global warming, we should be finding ways to reduce it, like using the carbon in the air for something useful instead.