Shirou and Gilgamesh had no history or connection with each other, so the fight lacked meaning...

Shirou and Gilgamesh had no history or connection with each other, so the fight lacked meaning, on top of just being a shitty fight. Why do Fate fans insist UBW is the best route?

>(You)

Nobody insists that

It's better than Heaven's Feel.

on one hand you have the most caster in ubw but on the other you have the most rider on heaven's feel, good thing HA exist.

Is a long and complicated history absolutely necessary for making a truly meaningful fight?

This.
Sakura ruined HF.

What are you talking about?

The whole point of Shirou vs Gil was that it was the proving ground for Shirou's desire to be a hero.

"Who says a fake can't surpass the original?" isn't about projections vs Noble Phantasms, it's about Shirou convincing himself that it doesn't matter that he's just copying Archer and Kiritsugu's desires to be heroes.

By defeating Gil, something that Archer could never do, Shirou proves to himself that he can become better than Archer and Kerry were.

>muh sakura

Nah, HF is the the best route by far. Throwing away childish ideals for the sake of the one you love is way better than "muh hero of justice".

Rather than Archer and Kerry, Gil is a real hero, the original one.

>the fight lacked meaning

Original vs Faker.

Shirou's win was BS. "but gilgamesh lost to a highschooler because he was arrogant lmao"

Do they need to be long lost lovers or something for a fight to be good?

The climax was Shirou vs Emiya, the rest just felt like filler.

Zero > UBW.

But he didn't beat Gil. Archer and Angra had to save his ass at the last second.
So he didn't prove anything in the end.

I thought UfoTable's UBW was much worse than Deen 2006's FS/N.

Does Op not understand the concept of a dramatic foil?

...

GIRUGAMESH~

Why's that? Didn't like the story?

This whole fight was utter horseshit, it completely ruined the entire route.

By having a fuck with Rin, a high schooler is now able to stand toe-to-toe with a servant of Gilgamesh's level? Pfft.

Im gonna take your bait because I feel like bantering tonight

The whole point is that Shirou and EMIYA are the only ones who can actually counter Gilgamesh because of their UBW. UBW is literally the most perfect counter to Gate of Babylon. Have countless noble phantasms being fired at you like arrows? Fire countless copies of those noble phantasms right back at them and deflect them.

So yes, by having a fuck with Rin, Shirou was able to project so many noble phantasms against Gilgamesh.

Also kill yourself for making me type this when I have studying to do

Why didn't shirou trace on Ea

He never defeated Gil.
Gil was just outright stupid. Had he worn his armor, he won't lose an arm. Not to mention everything he has in his arnesal

>Gilfags are STILL mad

Because he's dense as a metal.

Because it's the only one with a good anime adaptation.

...

Because of the red man.

Yet the most famous legend of Gil's is "But Gilgamesh got ousted by a snake because he was arrogant lmao"

It's not like Shirou outright says "If it were any other servant I'd lose for sure, but the one magic Emiya Shirou has can defeat you" or anything.

Some people, man. Good luck with your studies.

>Proto Arthur has just become more relevant player than Artoria (Vanilla) in Nasu's core Fate story

How does it feel?

Shirou is the exact kind of person Gilgamesh wanted to see rise up from the ashes of the destruction he planned.

It just so happened that they were on opposite sides of the conflict, and that Shirou's powers were the kind of thing that triggered Gil

What happened?

The same way I've always felt: "Prototype VN with routes for Saber, Lancer, Archer, and Rider when?"

lol

>Shirou and Gilgamesh had no history or connection with each other

Did you miss the whole "Real v Fake" analogy that ran throughout UBW?

Gilgamesh represents "real". He owns his weapons and his ideology is his own.

Shirou represents "fake". All of his powers in the forms of the weapons he projects are copies from someone else. His ideology is simply inherited without any real deeper meaning from Kiritsugu.

Despite Shirou being the embodiment of "fake", the route is at pains to point out that just because something is a copy that it does not make it inferior. Shirou fighting and overcoming Gilgamesh is to highlight this theme entirely.

Maybe you just suck at reading comprehension. UBW has been out as a route for over 10 years. You could have easily googled this shit you mongoloid.

Arthur was given a grand order (by Solomon) and Solomon's wish. The only other entrusted with something similar is your self-insert. Roman set up your meeting with him after his death.
He also can time travel and jump dimensions. Zelretchfags got even more BTFO as they were.
His Excalibur was confirmed never unleashed its true power, too.

Apparently he spends his after Britian fall days world saving mode rather than sleep in Avalon as Artoria.

Gilgamesh being an arrogant fuckwit is a well established trait in his original epic you silly fuck.

>Had he worn his armor, he won't lose an arm.

Would you put on a bullet proof vest to go out and swat a fly? No, you wouldnt.

Same analogy can be applied here. Why would Gil armour himself against something that he never believed could have posed even a tiny threat to him?

Don't forget Excalibur was also confirmed weaker than Goetia. Even Arthur's which is stronger and also has the same function (Roman told him he couldn't prevent or fight the incineration).

So Goetia >>>> Sefar.

HF is hot garbage. The theme of "stop being idealistic and accept your shit reality" might be enjoyed by some but by and large its a negative and pessimistic message.

He didn't have a reason to wear his armour in Fate route, yet he wore it. Didn't have a reason to wear it through *all* of Zero, yet he wore it.

>He didn't have a reason to wear his armour in Fate route, yet he wore it

Yes he fucking did. He was going after Saber. He is very much aware of her skill and ability.

No he wouldn't he'd have lost because the story calls for that.

Gilgamesh even admits that Shirou defeated him. He won the battle but lost the war.

The thing is that his ideal was shit and was going to force him to throw away his great reality with the one he truly loved. Kiritsugu and Archer both realized it was bullshit in the end, so the thematic conclusion is for Shirou to grow out of the ideal and become an actual functioning human being before it's too late.

Does Second Magic even exists when everyone can time travel and dimension jump as if was some kind of easy shit?

>ITT fatefags claiming HF is the best route because there's no anime adaption yet, making it the only possible route to feel elitism over

>shows up wearing his armour
>skewers Caster, smashes Saber into the earth with Ea
>Shirou does some annoying bullshit, Gil gets bored and leaves
saber is surely the key to all of this

>functioning human being

He became a puppet with a borked personality and a body that doesnt work

Sounds like "functioning" to me

You mean as compared with a hollow empty man who never fixes himself and is doomed to die like a machine as in UBW?

UBW shirou is a perfectly functioning person, he just still believes in something.

Sounds like somebody neither read HF nor KnK. Touko's "puppets" are pretty much perfect body replacements.

Here's your (you), secondary-kun. Now fuck off.

Did you somehow completely miss the fact that even archer never truly became that machine he describes himself as?

He was described as being happy even when he died. It was only afterwards when he had to go do that whole counter guardian thing that he became scornful and bitter. And UBW shirou is going to be living a much healthier life.

>UBW shirou is a perfectly functioning person
Literally the entire plot revolves around how he isn't that. He just covers his ears and refuses to do anything about it until HF.

No, the plot was that he wasn't being functional and then over time he makes a reconciliation of himself and his ideals.

UBW is reconciliation
HF is abandonment.

And Kiritsugu and Archer showed why abandoning it is the only reasonable option. The ideal's fundamentally fucked.

That doesnt happen though.

>perfect replacements
>body dies or something if he doesn't receive huge amounts of mana

GARcher is the reason UBW is the best route, every other argument is invalid.

Serve this post also as a claim for my husbando.

Good thing Sakura has precisely that.

>archer was happy with his life
>kerry mutilated his ideal and regretted it ever since.

You havnt read them more like. The only Touko puppets that are perfect are the ones of Touko.

They found Shirou's puppet body in one of Touko's old abandoned workshops and it is very pooly fitting.

Thats why the are looking for her in the epilouge

Sakurafags dont even know their own route

That's just your taking it negatively. There are numerous positive ways to interpret it, too.

I've always seen it as the story of a boy who lived for others learning to live for himself, too. The Shirou that hangs onto his ideals is a romantic idea, but I think the notion of a boy learning something as simple as "it's okay to be selfish" has its merit.

I wonder what would have happened if Shirou summoned Gilgamesh instead of Saber.

I know Gilgamesh was technically already around when the new grail war started, but I'm still curious how they would have interacted with each other when they're not trying to kill each other.

>archer was happy with his life
That's why he wants to kill Shirou, right? What Kiritsugu regretted was sacrificing Irisviel and leaving Ilya behind for the sake of his ideal.

Archer's big revelation was that he did not regret his life.

UBW Shirou has support of Rin and the full knowledge of what led to Archer. He lives a fulfilling life.

Hell, even when he lives 100% comitted to his ideals after the Fate route he has a long and happy life and finds Avalon.

The HF Good end is the worst good end for Shirou.

You havnt read the vN, have you? Archer remembers that he never once regretted his life. Its the major development of his character

It works well enough to keep him as a normally functioning human being as long as he has sex with his girlfriend now and then. That's more than good enough. Try again, Rinfag.

He wants to kill shirou because of things that happened AFTER his life.

And kerry was broken before zero even began, he had found another reason to not kill himself with Iri but that was it, that's why he wanted the grail.

>h-he didn't regret his life, just the eternal suffering that came as a direct result of it!
Nice try. Also, pretty sure the Realta Nua end isn't canon.

>Rinfag

Hilarious.

And it doesnty work well at all. Its a desperate stop gap. Thats why they are desperately trying to find Touko who is canonically the hardest person to find if she does not want to be found

They make do but dont kid yourself. The puppet body is not a good thing

Read the fucking VN you mongoloid

This revalation got its own fucking unique CG you dense cunt

>calls people Sakurafags
>expects anyone to believe he's not a Rinfag
Hilarious. And considering what a miracle it is that he even survived, it's ridiculous to complain that he doesn't have a perfect body. As long as Shirou and Sakura have eachother, they're perfect.

I'm not the user you're arguing with, but I don't see why you're so certain that HF Shirou's life is so dreary just because he takes a different path.

I'd say it's a great unknown. It's a brave new world for Shirou, and I have no idea how any can be certain as to how he continues onward from that point. The unknown can be scary, but what lies beyond it isn't necessarily worse than what is known.

Personally, I hope (and firmly believe) that Shirou lives a good, regret-free life regardless of the answer he finds. I see no reason to believe they're mutually exclusive in this.

He proved to gil he was worth, contrary to the "faker" ideology. Plus before going oom he was dominating the fight.

>HF/Sakurafags once again demonstrating their hideous lack of knowledge around F/SN

You mean the CG right before he goes back to his eternal suffering and loses all his memories of UBW, making it all meaningless?

>ANYONE WHO HATES THE WORST EXCUSE OF A HEROINE IN THE NASUVERSE MUST LOVE HER SISTER!!!!
>Wormfag logic 101

He still does not regret how he lived.

Its an irrefutable point and a key one about his character.

>le worms worst girl xDDD
Yeah. Definitely a Rinfag we're dealing with here.

...

Haven't really read/watched anything fate related, but considering rest of the boards considers fatefags obnoxious I decided to drop by only to notice that you guys hate each other even more than the rest of the board hates you. Good thread.

While we're on it - was it ever specified what the hell kind of body Shirou had when they pulled him out of the wreckage? Rin says something about it being 'not quite right' or something, and they got the puppet body after that, so what did they first end up with?

>As long as Shirou and Sakura have eachother, they're perfect.
>as long as Shirou is inprisoned in a bad puppet body that affects his personality; magecraft and freedom , its perfect

Sakurafags come accross as yandere as the character herself.

Even the anime gets that part.

>Emiya
>forgetting

You do realise he doesn't go to the throne of heroes like everyone else right? And they've basically retconned them forgetting at this point anyway.

Him becoming a CG is a direct result of how he lived. That's an irrefutable fact if anything.

>HF idiots actually believe this

The very scene where Rin sees Archer off points out that he'll lose all his memories when he returns to be a counter guardian.

And you know what? he was fine with that in life and during UBW he realises that he's actually kinda fine with it overall. He'd just distanced himself from his dream and meeting Shriou revitalised that.

And he doesnt regret it.

What part of this are you failing to understand?

Also Archer is fully aware of what happens when he gets summoned. Thats how he is aware of his counter guardian role in F/SN in the first place

My god you are thick.

It's literally proven by your own posts:

He never regretted his life. He regrets becoming a Counter Guardian.

The only thing "proven" is that HF fags insert their own headcanon into the route and try to dismiss or ignore actual canonical plot points.

But have fun with you image macro. You sure told us

>he was fine with that in life
Only because he didn't understand what it actually entailed. If you think Archer doesn't regret it, you missed the entire point of UBW. He was trying to kill Shirou for a reason.

Because he's entirely convinced that he hates himself. But then he realises that he actually -doesn't-

The only one inserting headcanon is you, with your whining about how Shirou finally leading a decent life as an actual person is suffering just because his temporary puppet isn't completely perfect.

Again, the -BIG REVELATION- is that he doesnt regret a thing.

Why are you fighting against the literal story?