The arc that ruined bleach's potential

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Pretty much
Bleach didn't turn into a shitfest overnight but SS arc was when it jumped the shark

i still dont get where SS people go when they die and why children grow up in SS

such a shitty heaven and also your soul can starve and die again there. The only thing worth doing there is becoming a shinigami

But Soul Society was the best arc.

It would've been great if it had ended right after that. It would be legendary, I'm sure.

>i still dont get where SS people go when they die
They reincarnate on Earth
>and why children grow up in SS
Kubologic

I remember watching the anime up to the end of the Soul Society arc, only to see Orihime getting captured right after.
That was anime original shit though, wasn't it? Either way, that was enough to make me drop this and never touching it again.

>Kubo did Soul Society again right after it, but tried to write off as different by having a different girl get kidnapped, replace the Shinigami with Hollow Shinigami, make another Renji but name him Grimmjow, make another Byakuya but name him Ulquiorra, and make another Kenpachi but name him Yammy along with keeping Aizen as the villain like before.
Kubo is a H.A.C.K. He always was one.

No, Bleach had like 4 arcs worth reading:

Pre-Reaper (1-8)
Soul Society (9-20)
Arrancar: Hueco Mundo (21-32)
1000 Year Blood War (55-74)

See image for what I mean

>Kubo did Soul Society again right after it, but tried to write off as different by having a different girl get kidnapped
Except that was a B plot. The next arc (Arrancar: Hueco Mundo) was a rival arc about Grimmjow and Ichigo trying to one up each other. Orihime was a B plot.

>Replace the Shinigami with Hollow Shinigami,
Except Arrancar are Hollows with Soul Reaper Powers. The point was to give the main character and Soul Reapers an opponent that was a step above their pay grade.

>Renji but name him Grimmjow
Fuck you, Grimmjow is nothing like Renji. Renji was constantly jobbed (Save for Grantz) in part 1 and only became useful in part 2. Grimmjow was a main villian in his own arc that was far more entertaining than what Renji did for YEARS.

>make another Byakuya but name him Ulquiorra
Ulquiorra is Byakuya but extremely emotionless. I agree.

>and make another Kenpachi but name him Yammy
Yammy was the Nappa of the Espadas. NNoitra was the Kenpachi

>keeping Aizen as the villain like before.
Actually, Aizen was the character in the backgrounds manipulatiing Soul Society. In Hueco Mundo he only sat around a drank tea.

Seriously, try actually pointing things out correctly before saying shit.

Souls don't starve. They can eat if they want, but it's more about water than food. Food is just a pleasantry. They explained that in Volume 8. If a Soul is getting hungry that means they are becoming closer to that of a Hollow.

They introduced shikai AND bankai in the same arc, made ichigo acquire bankai in 2 days, defeat renji and kenpachi, save rukia, set up aizen as big bad, and also this hoguoku nonesense ass pull out of nowhere to give us a reason to care about where aizen is hiding, byakuia's bullshit reason for wanting to kill rukia was because his parents told him to obey the law so he doesn't care about his wife or his attatchment to her at all so that we can have him as a good guy after this arc.
all that left the series with not much to present except muh hollow mask and soul society 2.0

Except for the fact that the Pre-Reaper arc already established a shit ton of things:

>Arrangers are in volume 3 as an epilogue to Grand Fisher
>A little taste of Vizard action with Ichigo having a Hollow Mask along with his Soul Reaper outfit.
>Quincy took over 25% of that plot
>Old Man manifestation and Inner Hollow's dual identity takes over
>Isshin's backstory and how he met Misaki (a Quincy)

And I'm cutting out the Substitute Soul Reaper thing and the Fullbringer stuff just for the sake of your side of the argument.

Kubo had bigger plans.

But Bleach was never good? :^)

was that chart ever finished?

No, it stopped right at chapter 681. But you get the jist of it. 75% good moments, 25% bad moments.

It was a very good battle shonen up to the end of Soul Society, even if the setting was the retarded. The build up from the battles against fodder hollows to the epic fight against Rukia's brother (forgot his name) was great. Had it stopped there it would probably be fondly remembered as one of the best Jump manga, sadly it had to turn into a 40+ volumes shitfest right after they rescued Rukia.
The anime was even worse, the filler arc with the dumb vampires that came after SS was absolutely terrible and lasted for ages.

>Except that was a B plot. The next arc (Arrancar: Hueco Mundo) was a rival arc about Grimmjow and Ichigo trying to one up each other. Orihime was a B plot.
It was all literally Soul Society in the desert. The structure was set up the same. Girl taken, gotta go get her where the enemies live. Shinigami (Now called Arrancar.) blocks their path. Aizen masterplanning behind the scenes.

>Except Arrancar are Hollows with Soul Reaper Powers. The point was to give the main character and Soul Reapers an opponent that was a step above their pay grade.
Yeah, so hollow Shinigami like I said. It became basically the same thing.

>Fuck you, Grimmjow is nothing like Renji. Renji was constantly jobbed (Save for Grantz) in part 1 and only became useful in part 2. Grimmjow was a main villian in his own arc that was far more entertaining than what Renji did for YEARS.
Grimmjow served the same purpose as Renji, a rival antagonist in the arc Ichigo had to fight against. (The only difference you can say is Ichigo was fighting a cat, not a monkey) And their personalities aren't that different either.

>Ulquiorra is Byakuya but extremely emotionless. I agree.
Glad we can agree on that.

>Yammy was the Nappa of the Espadas. NNoitra was the Kenpachi
Yammy was some kind of OP fuck like Kenpachi, the difference was Kenpachi was that upon his introduction while Yammy was most of the time shown as some goon.

>Actually, Aizen was the character in the backgrounds manipulatiing Soul Society. In Hueco Mundo he only sat around a drank tea.
He was still manipulating stuff is the background in Hueco Mundo. Everything that went on in that arc was part of Aizen's plan.

>Seriously, try actually pointing things out correctly before saying shit.
Kubo gave us the Soul Society arc twice, nigga. That's all there is to it. You noticed everything started really falling apart for the series when he had to make up some original material for arcs like Fullbring and Blood War.

Yeah, I was there for the ride. I just hoping the last couple of chapters had gotten an update. Guess most of the editors were Rukiafags

Shhhh.

>Fuck you, Grimmjow is nothing like Renji
I agree. Grimmjow was was very similar to Kenpachi, not Renji.
Renji is good character with a great story and an actual personality.

>Renji is good character with a great story and an actual personality.

When Kubo decided to give everyone a long backstory, that's when Soul Society became just "Japan with magic" and everything else was thrown out the window. From that point on, it's not about SS being the afterlife, it's about teaming up to protect the magical kingdom because reasons.
and yet the SS arc is still the better part of Bleach because it's the only one that has some form of stakes and obeys its own rules

Bleach was a shonen of fights even in that first arc, and the problem was that the fights weren't very good.The hollows of the first arc were so typical.
The first hollows that got interesting were the Menos. And when they had to fight shinigami instead of hollows was even better

Isn't it finished as it is?
Not much happens afterwards other than Ichigo and JewWatch removing each other's plot armor while spewing the same "it's hopeless you can't defeat me" every big baddie in Bleach has been saing since the first chapter.
and Ichihime too

You would not recognize a good character in your life. What is a crime is compare Renji to Grimmjow. Grimmjow is so typical and unoriginal, but teenagers and fangirls love him, of course.

How to write like Kubo
>reveal the the good guys that another parallel world of sorts exists
>reveal to the good guys that there is a team of ultra stronk fighters in it
>the team has :
>loud girl who yells at everyone almost nonstop (Rukia, Riruka, Hiyori, every female Quincy)
>tougher fighter who just wants to beat shit up and goes "tch!" (Renji, Zaraki, Shinji sort of, Bazz B, Grimmjow, Nnoitra)
>cold, emotionless guy with buttloads of powers (Ulquiorra, Byakuya, Haschwalth)
>weird guy that is both the occasionnal comedic relief and the most overpowered of the lot (Kyoraku, Starkk, Nakk Le Varr)

>the arc that saved Bleach is the arc that kiled Bleach

What did he meme by this?

The only thing that could have saved Bleach was ending it before it turns sour.
And sour it turned.

You're in the wrong genre

The only way Bleach could've been good post SS was if the shinigami kept being the antagonists of the series. Fight me faggots, you know I'm right.

And what do you want to say by this?

If you are saying that the first arc was better than the Soul Society arc, and that it should have continued with the same formula you must be kidding.
The Soul Society was something that it had to be explored, and the human world, characters included, wasn't so interesting.

Bleach developed its potential during the SS arc. It was from here that Bleach could have kept that level, but unfortunately, it plummeted after, and that has already been discussed ad nauseum.

This. And it could've improved after that if it was fleshed out.

Blood War was good until Monk's defeat

>the setting was the retarded

It was made increasingly obvious that the Shinigami were never intended to be the true antagonists, both by how they were characterized and throughout the arc's development.

You're an user who is good at noticing typo.

Should have ended after Aizen

Nah, last two arcs were fun, regardless of the lackluster ending.

I think that it was a mistake that after the SS arc the focus was on Ichigo and the human world and not in the Soul Society. To see some volumes about the shinigami, explaining more of them, whom we still didn't know much, it would have been great.
This is the same that it happened after the Arrancar arc, in the Fullbring arc. I suppose Kubo wanted to have the focus on Ichigo because he is the protagonist, and in the fullbring arc because he wanted to keptIchigo without powers, but it didn't feel natural.

Kenny is best captain, unohana is the cutest

That's exactly my point. The fact that they weren't completely evil is what would've made it good, plus all the different allegiances and motivations they had were interesting. By the end of the arc right before Aizen reveals he's the big bad, SS was practically on the brink of civil war. I like Aizen and all, but once all the blame for the conflict was put on him, it made the whole arc inconsequential and worthless.

In other words, you wanted antagonists who weren't antagonists? How would the story progressed past Rukia's execution then? The manga would have never progress past Soul Society.

They make an even cuter couple.

Dunno I wanted an ending that would explain everything and would satisfy me but meh it was way too much rushed

I lost interested in anything relating to Ichigo before the last arc even started, so I'm not surprised that you were disappointed. Anyone who reads battle shounen for the MC is a pleb regardless.

I think in Fullbring arc Kubo thought he could have a fresh start and try out something different, but it didn't seem to work out so he pulled a U turn and brought all the old stuff back out of nowhere. As for Ichigo, his problem is that he has no personality other than being the hero, so no one really cares about him unless he's kicking ass.

>Renji is good character with a great story and an actual personality.
No im saying that they put all the powers that ichigo can attain in one arc which made the rest of the story feel empty and watered down

the soul society arc was filled with plot twists that are obvious cash grabs to get you to continue reading
>ichigo infiltrates the shinigami base! where the strongest shinigami are! how wild is that
>ichigo fights renji! epic clash between rivals
>ichigo fights a captain called kenpachi! he's a real beast and will be a tough one to beat!
>a captain got killed! whoaaaat there's a traitor in soul society???? :O
>we know ichigo just got a power up but here's another power up bankai
>supposedly really hard to get but ichigo will get it in 2 days so that you don't get bored and stop reading
>ichigo just got bankai but also here's another power up! hollow mask powers wooo don't ever stop reading
>woooaah remember that captain that got killed? he's back and he was plotting this all along!
>woaaat?? there's a thing called hoguoku that is supposedly a really op item trapped in rukias body?
>holy shit more traitors this is epic keep reading pls

they used up all their cards and potential power levels that ichigo can achieve in one arc, and that put them in a tough spot where they had to come up with retarded shit that adds insult to injury like "his mother was a quincy all along so he can use quincy powers now!"

the unohana twist was a bit weird but was awesome nonetheless

>"his mother was a quincy all along so he can use quincy powers now!"

As if it wasn't obvious you were a speedreader...

Aizen-taicho is, like, totally dreamy.

Dude I didn't read it for Ichigo. I wanted explanation about Soul King, his relations with YHWACH and his parts

>tfw people thought SS was going to wind up being the Big Bad because of all the shady shit that they were doing
>Ichigo becomes aware and joins up with Aizen to stop them
I miss all the speculation. Definitely the best part of Bleach.

Maybe the new novel will explain those details. Maybe.

I think the potential of the world Kubo created had pretty much ran out after the SS arc. In my opinion he should have come up with completely new concepts and a new faction made of magicians/aliens/whatever along with a new setting, anything else than "muh stronger hollows and desert world".

RG is still shady. Especially Ichibei.

We will see but that kind of things should have been in the manga
Nice digits

Yeah that wasn't explained in detail but Kubo did give us plenty of context clues, if you want a definite answer than expect Narita to deliver where Kubo couldn't.

I'm still kinda mad the editors decided that we need two volumes of Szayel fight instead of Ashido and the Menos forest.

Fights peaked at Ichigo vs Ulquiorra. Kubo set the bar too high with that one.

Hueco Mundo was a good arc though, its only real flaw was poor pacing.

Ichigo v Ulquiorra holds up, but the last arc had a few gems like Zaraki v Unohana and Mayuri v Pernida.

Even if Ashido was in the manga we'd have still had two volumes of that fight, with even worse pacing. Forest of Menos was garbage even in the anime.

>the soul society arc was filled with plot twists that are obvious cash grabs to get you to continue reading
All the series have continuous plots twists and, of course, want to grab the attention of the readers, you are only stating something evident.

If Kubo had had better ideas he would continue grabbing your attention with more plots twist sand powers up,s but you simply don't like the plot twists and power ups that it had after the SS arc, that, yes, THEY HAPPENED.

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He said eventualy, not definitely.

what i mean is that he shoved a lot of the potential of the series in one arc

True

An antagonist doesn't need to be evil to fit the role, they just need to have a reasonable conflict with the protagonist. Ichigo and co. invaded SS just to save one girl. Sure, they didn't directly kill anyone, but they caused quite an uproar. Aizen even said himself that he used the confusion caused by them to do all his evil shit while everyone was distracted. On the other hand Ichigo is justified for what he's doing, and you can at least understand why, but the same can be said for SS, since most of them are just following orders and the laws placed, and some of them don't even agree or care. But in the end if you just attacked a country like that, it's unrealistic not to suffer any consequences after.

My bad this took so long internet was down.

>that yachiru was zararakis weapon all the time

I still don´t get it really. I just wish there would be a side story just about zararaki. At first he was just introduced as stupid battle-maniac, over the time they shown that he was such a fucking maniac that he actually closed his power to have fun.

But how the fuck is yachiro the sword? And why the fuck did the sword became a kid?

And antagonists like this are more interesting and relatable

I feel like Kubo had this in mind ever since Zaraki was introduced, but he doesn't explain it correctly, so it's stupid and makes no sense

Thank you that's the point I'm trying to get at.

>but he doesn't explain it correctly, so it's stupid and makes no sense
Could be said about many things in the manga

To this day I still don't get why the chapter with the bankai reveal was full color. Not that I am complaining

Classic Kubo, even his title doesn't make sense.

What would you choose instead of Bleach user ?

I can agree with that, and it worked out well for that arc, but again, if Soul Society remained the antagonists instead of Aizen (or Kisuke, as was Kubo's original intention) where does the story go after Rukia is saved? Did you honestly expect Ichigo to keep fighting Captains for the remainder of the manga? You forgot to answer my main point.

What more is there to explain? The last arc showed us that Zanpakuto in human form are indistinguishable from Shinigami, and given the circumstances by which Zaraki obtained his sword it's not unreasonable that it would have already developed it's own sense of 'self'. No matter how you look at it, this is textbook speedreading.

that´s what I also thought. I mean they introduced the everyone is afraid of zararaki and his blade but suddenly a little child is there and is not afraid.

Man the whole thing with the "health doctor" also beeing a fucking killing machine and also wielder of the title was so fucking nice.

Same with Ichigo and his "he is also one of the hollows", which was fucking great. But no then he need to do all these stupid nazi-blood and the SS guys in there and ruined it even worse. It just should have end after Aizen.

>It just should have end after Aizen.
fucking this

the thing that don´t make sense to me is, why is she calling it now? Why isn´t there any dialogue after that with him and her. It felt so fucking rushed.
It was a nice moment, but it still need proper explanation. Why is it in human form and in sword form, why never calling that she was the sword and so on. You can´t tell me that this was perfectly done.

You're expecting Kubo to 'tell' you something that he's already 'shown' you. It's funny that this seems to be the most common criticism of Kubo, when in almost every other genre "show, don't tell" is the golden rule of storytelling.

>hey guys look here are swords who can get human forms
ok
>hey guys look, the little children was actually the soul of the sword all along and there is not a real reason for that, but I have shown you that it is the sword right so it´s all ok
no.

The thing is each arc had Ichigo adopt the powers of the enemies he's facing at the moment.

I consider that pretty creative since he was at least able to master each ability except the Quincy ability because of the mighty rushing.

I know you're purposefully ignoring a decade of foreshadowing and purposeful subtext within the same arc it was revealed, but at least try to be subtle about it. You can't take something that literally everyone here predicted well before it was confirmed in the manga and say "well clearly there was no buildup here".

For Ichigo, mastering Quincy abilities wasn't as importing as understanding the nature of both White (both his Hollow and his true Zangetsu) and Old Man Zangetsu (Yhwach, technically his 'fake Zangetsu' but becomes his secondary Zanpakuto).

I am not saying the build up wasn´t there. It was just too less. I mean the little girl literally vanished after zararaki had his (the thing before bankai). But she still didn´t vanished after zararaki could hear the voice.

Also it was just like " ok here you go, that´s the secret" but nothing more. It just felt, that sometimes you need to explain this shit, why the fuck didn´t she tell that she was the sword all along and what his bankai now actually is? Just becoming a demon?

>I mean the little girl literally vanished after zararaki had his (the thing before bankai). But she still didn´t vanished after zararaki could hear the voice.

It's called Shikai, first of all. The fact that she didn't vanish until he released it is how Kubo let the audience know those two incidents were connected.

Your complaint can be summated as 'instead of figuring it out for myself by reading, I want the author to explain everything in detail so I don't have to actually read the manga'. That you can't even remember what Shikai is called further outs you as a speedreader.

Hollow powers were just as badly rushed. All that drama with Ichigo 'going berserk' and then getting scared of using his mask afterwards was completely disregarded and wasted

>"it's hopeless you can't defeat me" every big baddie in Bleach has been saing since the first chapter
Literally every other shonen does that trope. Also Byakuya and Ginjo were the big baddies of their respective arcs who didn't do this.

>All that drama with Ichigo 'going berserk' and then getting scared of using his mask afterwards was completely disregarded and wasted

Which is why there was an entire arc about learning to control it, as well as numerous sub-arcs about learning to accept his hollow as a part of him.

Speedreaders are in full force today, it seems.

SS arc was the best one in bleach is even iconic in japan culture, everyone know about the BAN-KAI! escene.

Yeah, I'm referring to all the angst after that

As in after losing control to Ulquiorra, there's a whole span where he's scared to use his power, his mask changes, etc, a bunch of personal drama that gets jammed aside because Kubo's pacing is awful and he needed to pull a Hyperbolic Time Chamber out of his ass just to wrap up the mess that was the Aizen Arc

Do you mean when he defeated Zangetsu the first time or when he killed Ulquiorra? It was basically resolved after Zangetsu and OMZ taught him the FGT.

Bleach started off badly. Shit makes no sense.

>complaining about the best part of the Deicide arc

I'm sorry your taste is such shit, user.

Fuck you talking about? SS arc was hella hype, getting to see all the Captains.

>supernatural fantasy manga
>shit makes no sense

You're in the wrong genre.

I think his latest Bankai was going to use his Quincy abilities he was saving for later.