What went wrong Sup Forums?

...

everything

>Too much Sasuke focus
>Both Naruto and Sasuke shouldnt have been literal reincarnations of the Sages kids and should have just inherited their ideals.
>Madara should have been the manga final boss with Kaguya being The Last's final boss.

Aside from that it was okay. I dont have the hateboner for the franchise a great many others do, not do a have a great adoration for it. It was a fun ride and I expected the plot to go pretty fucking wold by then end so What we got didn't really throw me for much of a loop.

>tfw reading Naruto for the first time and get to the part where Zabuza kills Gatou

he and haku are the best characters, aren't they?

Nah, that would be Shikamaru

greatest love story ever told

A lot of my friends got hooked on naruto backthen because of Haku and Zabusa arc.

Few volume after that, Rock Lee vs Gaara fight ensured they'll keep reading it till before timeskip at very least.

My only gripe is how much they hyped up this form.

He didn't use that Kunai, there was no reason for him to have it in his mouth, and he didnt even use those 2 rods for more than 1 attack.

>madara is final boss
>madara wins
>Boruto only takes place in naruto's dreamworld

I legit had nostalgia feels at the conclusion of reanimated Haku/Zabuza

I watched Naruto 'til Gaara vs Lee.
Good thing I never hooked in this series to see it fall.

It's funny: these are the exact changes I would make, as well. And it wouldn't have changed much overall or in the grand scheme of things, except maybe ending the manga a little earlier, which is probably a good thing, but my god, would it have made me and a lot of other people — if not most people — feel a hell of a lot better about the series in the end.

Yeah, i really love that they have their small talk with Kakashi and ended with Kakashi thanking them for being Naruto first real opponent.

Hell, both of them is credited for creating Naruto personal code.
>Do you have someone precious to you? Only when someone are trying to protect what precious to them that they can be truly strong

the last good fight was shikamaru versus whoever that one cultist guy was, and it was fucking amazing. after that though, almost a decade of asspulls and power bumps

At one point me and my friend goes, Read naruto only until before timeskip.

The rest if f*cking filler.

It needed more Sasuke and the show would have been 10/10

That whole arc was just the plot bending over for Shikamaru.

I re-read it last year and realized it's okay, I think not having to wait for it makes it more enjoyable. Even with all it's missteps it still came together into a decent enough ending, which is more than I can say for a certain other manga.

Also semi-related, Naruto got pretty bonkers toward the end, but I think One Piece is REALLY gonna get wild towards it's ending. Assuming Oda is able to get there, I'm expecting a huge world war with giants, giant moon robots, alien space pirates, chimeras armies, and a bunch of other crazy shit he's been teasing.

Naruto pre-timeskip was preety fucking good.

Then the mangaka forgot the fucking original theme and made Naruto LITERALLY a god reincarnated with god-tier genes fighting while throwing laser balls n shiet.

Somewhere it stopped being about ninjas and overcoming your weaknesses and became about power levels and magical powers with 0 drawbacks.

Also, it was inconsistent as hell. They did every forbidden technique in the book and nobody paid any price.
Literally the only scars Nurudu and Edgeman got were 1 arm(offscreen) from the last battle.

Sevens. Five of them.

Sakura and Sasuke. Take them out and this show would have been somewhat decent.

>Rinne Rebirth had no draw backs
>absorbing 10-Tails had no drawbacks
>Mango Sharringan had no drawbacks

It didn't even matter in the end. Sasuke got good eyes again just because. Gai got revived by Naruto-Jesus, etc, etc.

It not about not having drawbacks, it's about paying the supposedly high price of it. No, living the rest of your life in a wheelchair isn't a good price to pay when it was supposed to disintegrate you.

Open-toed shoes.

That Neji was right all along.

Shikamaru's fights are an endless cycle of "You did what I expected you to do, so you didn't do the the thing that you thought I was expecting you to do and now you are trapped in my shadow"

The fight where Asuma gets killed is much better because it takes Shikamaru out of his comfort zone since stuff doesn't go according to his plan and he has to make up shit under pressure.

It went wrong right from the start because Naruto was a complete mess of a protagonist. Both from a character and story perspective.

You're only tricked into thinking pre-timeskip was unsullied because so much of it was devoted to a bunch of far more interesting side characters.

Think about it: didn't it feel weird when Naruto actually started to act like the main character in shippuden? When the main protag feels odd when in center stage you know you've messed up.

nothing, it sold over 200 million copy

>madara

Swap out one edgy uchiha and eye-hax focus for another. What's the fucking point? At least Sasuke had some sort of connection to Naruto.

Something that really bugged me about Madara is that we learn his ultimate goal (through Obito) before we really get introduced to his character and personality.

Once the latter two factors start getting light shed on them there's this real dissonance between them and that ultimate plan. The whole lotus eater thing just doesn't seem to fit Madara at all.

It's a problem that pervades the whole series with the more we learn about antags the less sense it makes for why they were working with the other bad guys in the first place.

It all just feels like amassive clusterfuck of terrible writing.

a story about hard work and defying fate became a story about elite lineage and fated conflict.

People always say this, but when was that ever actually a plot point in the series? It was really only a thing when talking about Rock Lee. Naruto never worked hard for anything. He took constant short cuts and plot contrived power ups.

Naruto was always about bonds and the power of friendship

Naruto stopped being a fuck up when he began to work hard.

I can't tell, are you agreeing or disagreeing with what you're replying to?

>practiced for a few hours
>mastered a high class skill
>was only able to do it because of the fox and natural born talent
Where's the hard work?

Just pointing out that the main theme of Naruto, according to its author is "bonds" rather than hard work like some people claim.

>it sold over 200 million copy
with minimum 40 yen royalties percopy, that would give Kishi somewhere around

8 billion yen or somewhere around 71 million USD to kishi.

That's not counting merchandise, anime, and movie deals.

>Naruto, according to its author is "bonds" rather than hard work like some people claim.

It's mostly salty Rock Lee fags that pissy about Naruto went of from "hard work pays" rails.

Talent was a thing too from when Sasuke was introduced, but so was hard work, which allowed Rock Lee to beat someone talented who was also portrayed as working extremely hard in his own right.

The gap between talent and hard work became really dumb as the sharingan progressively stopped just being the talent to copy abilities and instead became a hax that let people summon gundams and create unquenchable fire.

Then he became the wunderkind and Child of Prophecy while actual underdogs like Lee were left in the background.

Madara was cool because he wasn't a whiny little bitch like Sasuke, Pain or Obito.

No "sorry, I was just confused ;_;" crap, he was bad to da bone.

Because Naruto is the fucking main character and Lee is a supporting one.

Is that so hard to grasp? You might as well complain that Goku got to be stronger than Krillin.

Almost every Akatsuki was like that. Most of them were forgettable.

too much Uchida

it's like Uchida is the only family that matters

They were pretty cool, except Itachi who is a huge Mary Sue.

>which allowed Rock Lee to beat someone talented

Loses to Hyuga.
Loses to Gaara.
Loses to Bone guy.
Loses to Sharkboy clone.
demoted to extra in Gai vs Madara.
Lost Sakura to sasuke.
Not sure whether he is actually married when everybody married & breeds

Being Rock Lee is to suffer.

Yeah. It was a really shitty story about "bonds." The first lesson Kakashi teaches is about the importance of teamwork, but by Part II it's the Naruto and Sasuke show with everyone else just being in the way. Japs have such a half-assed approach to the "power of friendship" message.

Then he shouldn't have let Guy take over his role in the series.

Nothing more cancerous than the Naruto spammers that spam the same shit thread everyday.

It actually the only thing that turn me off during FMA ending,
>Take my alchemy, i have power of friendship...

Sigh...

I can't believe that it took until the fucking Bort movie to show Naruto and Sasuke do actual teamwork.

...

Itachi was actually a character; everyone else, sans Obito and Kisame, was a character design and a power set. I feel the same way about Madara; without being an OP Gary Stu no one would care about him.

>Naruto and Sasuke do actual teamwork.

The entire last arc is team 7 vs madara/kaguya.

You have the shittiest taste in the universe.

You probably think The Boss from MGS3 is a good character.

It made sense in FMA though.
Anticlimatic as fuck, but made sense.

WHAT WENT WRONG?
Hunter x Hunter kept on going on hiatus and so Kishimoto struggle to tell a story

>was a character design and a power set.

Lookie here, i screaming my character design!
I wish Kishi could be more subtle with his character introduction.

And it mostly involved Naruto and Sasuke throwing shit at Madara/Kaguya separately.

I hate the fact Naruto ended up being 'talented'.

His whole shtick was supposed to be hard-work>talent.

And you probably think the same of the remaining Cobra Unit. They have about as much characterization as the Akatsuki which is none. That's what they remind me of really: video game boss fights. But in a video game its far more acceptable since people are there for the gameplay; no one actually believes that said boss fights are good characters.

There's the bomb guy, the puppet guy, the voodoo guy. Just like playing Mega Man on the old NES.

>His whole shtick was supposed to be hard-work>talent.
No, it fucking wasn't, every important fight he wins since the beginning of the series is due to the overpowered demon stuck up his ass.

Naruto's shtick was "muh nakama" "muh understanding my enemies" and "muh unpredictability"

Naruto manga would be infinitely better if Sasuke was female and Sakura was male.

So Naruto would have a crush on a guy at the beginning of the series?

Eh, combo attack of Rasen Shuriken with Amaterasu, combining Susanoo vs Kyuubi, team tagging Marada limbo's clone, several 2 person combo move against kaguya...

Naruto wouldn't have a crush on anyone. Or maybe a little crush on Sasuke.

No, we just gonna have 70 volume of just fuck each other already Naruto, sasuke, and the world will be saved.

In the end Naruto would friendzone Sasuke and she would have to settle for Sakura. Sakura would be stay-at-home dad.

Like that would ever happen

Yeah, now we'll have 100+ episode of just fuck already sasuke&naruto proxy.

power levels going out of Control and turning naruto into Jesus Christ.

Orochimaru's curse seal ruined the series. It should have been resolved after the chuunin exams.

Should have killed all of those fallen people in sasuke chase.

They have great death written there and got retconned.

Naruto only ever learnt one justsu. You never feel like he's progressed ability wise as he always relied various godlike powers that were given to him. I remember the bitter disappointment i felt when shippuden started and naruto hasn't progressed.


I feel like author was cautious or just not imaginative enough to have his main character use any interesting abilities.

That'd uh

That'd be Tobi

>Not sure whether he is actually married when everybody married & breeds

Nigga

Metal Lee

>rasengan and all its varieties
>shadow clone
>that wind jutsu he used to hide the army
>mastered senjutsu
what the fuck are you talking about

Is there anyone who was more shafted by plot and sharingan bs than my man Deidara?

Pain arc
>Pain fights Tsunade
>kills her
>nukes the village
>kills Hinata
>Naruto goes bananas
>defeats him
>Nagato ain't talk no jutsu'd and doesn't revive anyone
>Nagato stays alive

5 Kage Summit arc
>stays the same but Naruto doesn't have an heart attack when he hears Sasuke is gonna be killed

War arc
>much shorter
>no Edo Tensei
>Nagato is the one who fights the 5 kages
>Obito kills Kakashi and takes his sharingan back
>final villains are just Obito and Nagato

there, I kinda fixed it

No the last arc is Naruto and Sasuke attacking with no coordination or even atempting teamwork while Sakura plays cheerleader to the chosen ones.

>removing madara
thousand times better than pain

guess Kabuto needs to do something so just reviving Madara would be somehow okayish

>muh unpredictability

Up until the end when he started learning super moves by the bucketfull 90% of his shit was the same clone tactics and Rasengan combo.

>Kakuzu has more than half a century of battle experience, fought the 1st Hokage, has multiple hearts


>Fooled and defeated by a genin using his shadow clone

>Kakashi didn't have a child.
>tfw no mini-Kakashi who doesn't have a sharingan crutch.

Enormous power creep and bullshit amount of fancy abilities for edgy eyes and magical cells. The final arc was a power-up bargain sale, to the point of most super special techniques becoming plug and play.
Absurdly forced MUH PARALLELS.
Many things made no sense in hindsight. Especially Obito was unbelievably inefficient.
Too many traumatized kids among villains and MC part-timing as psychotherapist.
Convoluted lore, especially when build bottom-up - aliens, gods, primal chakra monsters, magical trees, billions of super special eyes, reincarnations. It all obviously wasn't preplanned but mashed into story as it was going, completely straying from the initial premise of ninjas doing ninja things.
Super special snowflake treatment of Sasuke, Jesus Christ, how much does everyone love this murderous psychopath? Also making Itachi a horrible Mary Sue, everyone who opened their mouth to talk about him ended up slurping on his cock like an educated prostitute.
Uncreative "fix the world by forcing humanity into collective X for its own good" plot.
Main villain hyped for half of the series as the baddest motherfucker to ever walk the Earth going down like a bitch to get replaced by some literal who. Seriously?
Removing Orochimaru early. This magnificent bastard was a great villain and one of the best things this series has created. Him being Sasuke's bitch after revival was a huge disappointment.
Naruto's development could've been better. Shounens really need to stop with the eternal idiot MC.
Speaking about shounen tropes - good ol' DB style romance, where author just announces that these two are now a couple. It really wouldn't hurt to develop romances gradually, not just shove them at the end. Well, Hinata at least got her movie, but I still can't comprehend why Sasuke would end up with Sakura for any other reasons than pleasing shipping autists.

Deidara was not like that, and he became the most forgettable one. Only fun dude was Kisame.

Honestly a mini, no Sharngan Kakashi would be strange to see fight.


Most of the top tiers has a gimmick of some sort: Kekkai Genkai, Jinchuuriki, 8 Gates, Sage Mode. One major ability or power that shapes their fighting style.


Mini Kakashi could be kind of like the 2nd Hokage or 3rd Hokage (neither of which we saw enough of). They didn't have any gimmick, they were just strong. Hiruzen studied hard to learn a shit ton of jutsu, and Tobirama was just a tough guy that used strategy.

Shippuden

Tobirama was a senju which in itself was fucking hax he created almost all top tier jutsus like edo tensei, kage bunshin and hiraishin.
He was a genius at creating jutsus.

That's what you get when you try to out-edge the edge. In fact he pretty much suicide bombed into Sasuke while not even clearly losing the fight yet. Blondy retard is the only person to blame for his own death.

Senju hax is real, but really what it offers is extra chakra & durability, which is entirely different to a distinct technique or ability like the other examples.


Yeah I know he created the jutsus, but I meant in terms of his fights from a viewer perspective.


Think of it this way: Sharingan users have basically all their fights settled by sharingan techniques, rinnegan users heavily use their techniques (it is literally all Pain does), Might Guy uses the 8 Gates, Shikamaru always uses his shadow jutsu, Choji expands, etc.


A strong character without a central theme or gimmick to their fights hasn't really had that much focus as far as I can remember.

Hiruzen master all element (kekkai genkai element aside) and so far the only character shown manage to do so.
He is known as the professor due to knowing (maybe even able to use as databook 4) every jutsu in konoha. again bloodlinelimit aside.

His extreme mastery of jutsu is possible reason on why his student Orochi also obsessed with jutsu.
Hiruzen even lament that he should've taught orochi more things other than jutsu mastery.

His fight against orochi and semi revived Shodai and Nidai while respectable, is considered lame and bad compared to his prime according to his nyoibo Enma. Then again, in his prime he is known as God of Shinobi and the strongest Kage in his generation.

>Hiruzen master all element (kekkai genkai element aside) and so far the only character shown manage to do so.

tough, both Kaguya and hax naruto later able to do so too.

>Madara is just an extremely powerful edo tensei to give the old-timers some limelight
>just acts as a super weapon for the villains
>never was part of the dumb keikaku and is just in it to teach modern people to fear the Uchiha
Here. All the Madara badassery people want so badly without all the retardedness.

>while not even clearly losing the fight


Everything he tried was countered by Sharingan

Mini bombs? Sharingan

Land mines? Sharingan

Most of his techniques in general? The Sharingan could read his hand signs and therefore figure out how to counter his techniques by using electricity, mostly in the form of Chidori, which cannot be used effectively without Sharingan.


Even Sasuke's escape from the suicide bomb was Sharingan hax that involved genjutsu on the giant snake.

He live in different era.
He live in constant war era or first shinobi war and then second shinobi war.

The long war actually propel him to create batshit jutsu from edo tensei to the continues explosion jutsu which killed everyone nearby (including several kage and possibly tobirama himself). It stated the continous explosion "reset" the battlefield.

Way too much Sasuke

the thing is from the beginning you could tell Kishi thought Sasuke as cool and awesome unironically

this spirals out of control when he has Sasuke advance as one of Naruto's antagonists, so it makes characters look weak when they whine about him for several years despite being an asshole (and criminal?)

Sasuke being an Uchiha also meant that clan got too obsessed over so you were tired of hearing about them and how super-awesome-special they are before the story ended

Deidara is the greatest.