Opinion on Oliver Cromwell?

Opinion on Oliver Cromwell?

The more I read about him the more conflicted I am. On one hand he was a strong leader who defended his nations interests, protected the faith and fucked up the Irish but on the other hand he was a Parliamentarian, messed up the monarchy and fucked with the Scots.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Souldiers_Pocket_Bible
olivercromwell.org/faqs4.htm
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He was an ass....

What are you, a Catholic?

My impression is that he did his best to do the right thing.

He let the jews back in, fuck him

the only thing he did wrong was letting jewsback in
Ohter than that literally /ourguy/
Puritans are BASED
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Souldiers_Pocket_Bible

May Cromwell and Trevelyan burn in hell forever and may not a glass of whiskey cross their throat, a pretty girl cross their glance or their descendants see anything other than utter poverty.

He let the Jews back into England, setting the stage for the destruction of Western civilization.

Afaik, he invited them back because he was under the false impression (the same impression Luther was under until he became woke) that Jews would convert to Christianity and become normal people. His problem was underestimating Jews.

>Irish
Opinion discarded

>Said the leaf

Cromwell was a monster by anyone's standards. Even the English eventually decided he'd gone too far and posthumously executed him. He even banned Christmas for fuck's sake. He's one of the most contemptible figures in history. He practiced scorched earth colonization, pretty much for no reason whatsoever, since he had a far better equipped and trained army.

this, letting the usurers in is unforgivable

>In September 1649, he justified his sacking of Drogheda as revenge for the massacres of Protestant settlers in Ulster in 1641, calling the massacre "the righteous judgement of God on these barbarous wretches, who have imbrued their hands with so much innocent blood."[59] However, Drogheda had never been held by the rebels in 1641—many of its garrison were in fact English royalists.

Motherfucker didn't particularly care who he slaughtered.

>Cromwell was a monster
fuck off he was a hero for the ENGLISH people

I mean, seriously, even Loyalists in Northern Ireland don't like him, and he aligned broadly with their agenda. That's what a loathsome cretin he was.

Again,
>Irish
Your fucking republican schools teach you that he was a monster.

What was that?

my opinion has been finalized

Empire fetishist Leafposters always crack me up. You're kind of like the mirror image of plastic paddies or weeaboos or something. You think you're some far flung son of a great empire, but you have no idea where to direct this belief, so you settle on extreme and bizarre interpretations of history which not even the most ardent imperialists in Britain attempt to express these days. It's fairly pathetic desu. Have you ever even been to England?

Is there a term for this? Engleafs?

Go home, taig, you're drunk

History teaches us that he was a monster. I mean, his almost autistic devotion to Anglican protestantism and contempt for his fellow man pretty much indicate there was something seriously mentally wrong with him, and as I said before, *even the English decided he was a cunt and went to the trouble of EXECUTING HIM when he was already dead*.

So if you're such a Cromwell worshipper, where do you stand on the monarchy?

Fuck the Queen, surely, right?

Not for any of the reasons you think. That was done because the monarchy returned and Cromwell has fucked the monarchy.

I'm not a Cromwell worshipper, I made it clear in my OP that I'm conflicted on the man, I'm only defending aspects of his personality against stupid Irish bullshit.

kill yourself

His reputation on his death and immediately after was abysmal, both in the UK and Ireland. Drogheda, the Christmas fiasco, pissing on the British traditions and ruining the Anglican Church were the main charges. Alongside regicide.

After the Glorious Revolution when Charles I descendent's genuinely did convert to Catholicism people began looking at him again. Carlyle liked him, people focused on him as a proto-Democrat and republican idealist.

After the Victorians his reputation started to go downhill again, or at least become more measured. In Ireland he is hated (actually partly unfairly, most of the massacres as someone has mentioned here were of English settlers so the genocide charge is false), and in England most historians like him but temper that with he was a bad guy. Anti Catholicism and Democracy bumming are common in British historians.

In my view, he was a social disaster, as confirmed by the response in his lifetime, but a fiercely competent general and leader, a religious maniac, and he possessed a certain kind of vision for the future that was authoritarian and in a way modernist. Calling him a Fascist is annoying but does happen, but he is interesting.

Oh, and he readmitted the Jews to England after 400 years of Jew-free civilisation. Which is ((()))

>During 1648, Cromwell's letters and speeches started to become heavily based on biblical imagery, many of them meditations on the meaning of particular passages. For example, after the battle of Preston, study of Psalms 17 and 105 led him to tell Parliament that "they that are implacable and will not leave troubling the land may be speedily destroyed out of the land". A letter to Oliver St John in September 1648 urged him to read Isaiah 8, in which the kingdom falls and only the godly survive. On four occasions in letters in 1648 he referred to the story of Gideon's defeat of the Midianites at Ain Harod.[46] These letters suggest that it was Cromwell's faith, rather than a commitment to radical politics, coupled with Parliament's decision to engage in negotiations with the king at the Treaty of Newport, that convinced him that God had spoken against both the king and Parliament as lawful authorities. For Cromwell, the army was now God's chosen instrument.[47] The episode shows Cromwell’s firm belief in "Providentialism"—that God was actively directing the affairs of the world, through the actions of "chosen people" (whom God had "provided" for such purposes). Cromwell believed, during the Civil Wars, that he was one of these people, and he interpreted victories as indications of God's approval of his actions, and defeats as signs that God was directing him in another direction.[48]

The guy was legitimately unhinged. I'm not even a republican, and many aspects of Anglo-Irish history and relations are exaggerated. Not Cromwell though.

Which parts exactly?

The part where he cast both Britain and Ireland into turmoil which lasted decades, just because he was such an autistic dickwad, or the parts where he believed he was the representative of (((God's chosen people))) on Earth? Maybe it's the part where he decided to go in raw on all the cultural traditions which defined both Britain and Ireland, and fostered a mutual hatred which lasted for centuries beyond his death, because "muh catholics".

olivercromwell.org/faqs4.htm

Also his false reputation as a Republican ignores how he dismissed multiple parliaments (bare bones etc) that he set up to run the country, and having deposed the King for being an anti-Parliamentary autocrat, became one himself.

Now I don't like democracy and do like authoritarianism but the experience of Cromwell put the British of radical politics to this day to some extent.

He's still in front of Parliament though. Think they put him there as a warning to the Queen...

Thanks

t. Paddy who lives in Canada, back in 5 days to plough your already wrecked slags

Some of us are proud of our history faggot

where in Canada
I'll smash your face in bud

Christmas clamp-down may not have been personally ordered but it perfectly sums up his puritanical and socially invasive attitudes, which are poison to English people.

I am not detracting from his reputation as a soldier and a statesman in the early days, but the Protectorship was a fucking disaster. Only the Victorians have ever thought otherwise.

Bring it on, taig

>likes that he fucked with the irish
>dislikes he fucked with the scots

you really cant have an opinion if you dont know who and what your talking about

you are hon hon

As sympathetic as I am towards radical Protestant theocracy (I'm not joking) he was a republican and that is not something that can be forgiven.

GTA

Bring it cunt, I'm stocked and loaded

Oh I know. Trying to analyze him through the lens of any particular political ideology is completely futile. His motivation was purely whatever extreme and retarded philosophy would allow him to piss in as many people's business as possible, with himself on top. Nothing was ever good enough, Christian enough, or pure enough for him.

Even look at his features for goodness sake. The small eyes, thin lips, lack of creases on the upper lip. If that isn't foetal alcohol syndrome I don't know what is.

Respect this, but Cromwell is a bit dubious. I actually sympathise with Charles I a lot, and II, they were maybe a bit too decadent to be taken seriously in the religious time they were in but they were good people in my reading of it. Cromwell was brilliant, but puritanism is not a British trait at all. Anglo Protestants are moderates by nature.

I also live in the GTA

>GTA
confirmed shitskin fuck off

I associate that kind of puritanistic protestantism with Ulster. English protestants are moderate, Ulster Protestants are bible thumpers

>Scots try to invade England
>Fucks up the Scots

Why is that bad? Pleb

Little pussy bitch

Come fight. I'll even put birdshot in the 12g and leave the cumshot as a kneecap

reported to OPP
have fun losing all your guns faggot

>z

>guns
Just like a fucking irishman. I thought we were gonna slap fight like real men

Good luck reporting an Irish IP and the rerouting through Canadians fagboy

As usual, Canadians being little bitches. You cunts are so easy to tell what to do, no wonder you're cucks within your own country

>real men
>leaf
Doesn't really ring through Chang

Lmfao, you also live in Canada, retard. I wasn't born here either. So how am I any different than you as far as being Canadian?

Canada's history is being America's hat. Go bow to queen bootlicker. At least Ireland has remained free for it's history.

Utterly despicable. You can thank the Puritans for all the progressive moralizing we have to deal with today. And Charles I was a good dude.

>Ireland has remained free for it's history
mutt education

Canada is a British / Irish / French colony

Napalm dodgers will face the rope for unlawful residence

He started the process of opening up England to the Jews, but it was a process and not only Cromwell. More than anything, he was a crypto-Jew himself, and that's why he was willing to genocide the Irish

Lol. Good one Chang or is it achmed?

He was all about Jihad before Jihad was cool.

Smelly, dumb
Roundhead scum
Betrayed his king
He's a bum

Messed with the Clan's " North of the Wall " ? );

>Defended the faith
You protties should all have died with Charles V. A pity he didn't finish the job.

Canada is British and French, not fucking Irish.
I was born in Germany and am an ethnic German.

>[WORLDSTARS IN GAEILGE AND ENGLISH WITH FRENCH SUBTITLES]

>At least Ireland has remained free for it's history.

We're OK with it down here, neighbour.

It makes sense why you're so tense. A word of friendly advice: Germans are very good at starting fights, but not so good at finishing them.

You Americans are lovably stupid. You are like that retarded cousin everyone pretends to take serious. Never change.

There are 5 symbols on the roof of Canadian parliament

Scottish Thistle
Welsh Dragon
English Lion
French Fleur de Lis

and

Irish Shamrock / Harp

Your very parliament is covered in your subservience, both on the ceiling and in the art everywhere in Ottawa.

LOL you leaf retard, and it says that right on your fucking banner.

I don't even know what country your flag represents. Maybe if you post here more you will become relevant. ;^)

Ireland was a part of the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland during much of this country's history.

This is, in all seriousness, how you get Americans. The US as we know it is a child of Cromwell and his followers.

Who let the mensa into the thread?

The South, maybe. The rest of the country is such a mixed bag, the legacy of the puritans is lost on it

Jesus Christ, user.

The Irish who settled were protestants. The relatives of modern Ulster Prots, not your kin. Irish Catholics didn't come in any great quantity until the famine.

Comfy thread bros, gives me hope.

Ambassy of Oral-B. We are a repressed people, driven from our lands by the British.

The Brits should be thanking you for King Billy

I should have specified the Colonial and immediate pre-Revolutionary periods, but yes, point taken.

Toronto alone was > 50% Catholic after the exodus in 1850

1850 was also UKofGBaI

You also fail to realise that there is little to no animosity between N.Irish and S.Irish today. I sat 6.5 hrs home in a plane and 1.5 hrs in the airport drinking with 2 Proddies from Belfast. Good lads. Had a blast. They're on the same flight as me going back, so we've agreed to meet in the airport and have a few more drinks on the way back.

You are completely ignorant in all aspects.

>Opinion on Oliver Cromwell?
the fact that you can go around openly scheming against the power of a king and not get immediately killed is telling.
I'll have to read shakespeare to get a grip on the time period for any further opinion.

Cromwell is one of the greatest figures in English history. He wasn't without his flaws, but he laid the foundations for England to become a world power by firmly establishing the concept of representative government, as opposed to autocracy. This was one of the key features that made England stand out from the rest of Europe during the critical period that would lead to the beginning of the industrial revolution.

And as far as his flaws are concerned, most of them are hugely over exaggerated as a result of propaganda against him. The amount of misinformation surrounding Cromwell's life perhaps greater than any other person in English history. For example:

>He even banned Christmas for fuck's sake.
Cromwell didn't personally ban Christmas. During the civil war Parliament - since all it's less puritan members had left to join the king - tried several times to ban Christmas. This was before Cromwell came to power. After his victory in the civil war, he probably approved of the ban on Christmas, given that as Lord Protector he would have had the power to veto it, but it was still Parliament that originated the ban. It was hardly an unusual step for hardcore protestants - the Scottish kirk had banned Christmas as far back as the 1560s, over eighty years before Cromwell came to power.

Also the Tudor Dynasty was a mistake. Henry should have never broke with the Catholic Church

>Cromwell is one of the greatest figures in English history
So much so, that you literally dug him up and post-humously executed him.

We bullied everyone and kicked their asses. Our mistake was teaching the Brits our glorious ways of banking and finances. We are but a small tribe and weren't able to stop the Brits once they stole our tech.

Gave me a chuckle. You're not so bad.

Louis XIV should've send reinforcements to England and have crushed the opposition. Real shame their was too much rivalry between the monarchies of Europe.

Gross. Terrible take.

>You also fail to realise that there is little to no animosity between N.Irish and S.Irish today. I sat 6.5 hrs home in a plane and 1.5 hrs in the airport drinking with 2 Proddies from Belfast. Good lads.

Nice sample size stats Prof. Potato. I'll buy you a beer if you drag your flag around Ulster on a Sunday afternoon and confirm that no animosity theory of yours. Hahaha.

Cromwell had more power as Lord Protector than Charles ever had as a King

there*

12 years of practising English and I keep fucking up the basics.

Thank you for letting us steal the East India Company flag though - that was bro-tier.

I go to Belfast every year for NYs and always have a great time. 5 years running. I've worked with everyone from ex-UVF and to ex-IRA, and we're all the same. I've sat down in a pub with both the former and the latter together, and everyone just went home having a good time.

Your idiocy is because of what you believe from your isolation chamber on the internet. You are ignorant and stupid, like most Canadians.

Sorry McShane - gonna need to see some proofs on that.

My ancestors battled him.

This. I like what he did to the Irish, but reversing the expulsion is unforgivable. Imagine world history if he hadn't let them back?

k, thx Canacuck who has never met a white person, let alone an Irishman

> inb4
Be silent among your betters Chink

>He practiced scorched earth colonization
Cromwell's time in Ireland was actually limited to a small number of sieges in the first year of the Irish war. The long guerrilla war - during which BOTH sides practised scorched earth tactics - was conducted by other English commanders since Cromwell was urgently needed back in England. He didn't even take the post of Lord Protector until the final months of the conflict, so he didn't have direct authority over those commanders.

Nor was it a tactic practised to enable colonisation - in the 17th century most armies didn't have adequate supply chains and were expected to 'live off the land' (i.e. loot whatever areas they passed through for supplies). English and Irish, Royalist and Parliamentarian - all sides tried to gain a many supplies for themselves as possible, and deny as much to the enemy as possible. It was just how warfare was conducted in those days, and wasn't carried out with any especial prejudice against the Irish (in fact, the conflict in Ireland was practically humane compared to what happened during the 30 years war).

Cromwell viewed the Royalists as having incited the Catholic Irish. Which by the time he arrived in Ireland was entirely true. Cromwell's dislike of the Irish is somewhat understandable when you know the context. In 1646 Charles I had been defeated and captured. The Civil War - the bloodiest war in English history, which had been hard fought by Cromwell - was over. But while Charles was negotiating to keep his crown - which Parliament and Cromwell were still willing to consider at that point - he secretly negotiated behind Cromwell's back with the Irish and the Scots. So the Irish and the Scots rose up in support of Charles, starting the second phase of the Civil War. You can see why Cromwell would be pretty fucking pissed.