Help me figure this out

I'm officially a catholic, born and raised. I've been looking around for any alternative to the abomination that we've become. I went to orthodox liturgy this weekend and had some good discussions with people there. Here's what I got out of it.

Pros of orthodoxy
>Sign of the cross hasn't been corrupted
>Church organization makes it a nightmare for anything to get (((changed)))
>Liturgy is uniform, no bringing in aztec dancers or african singing during the worship
>People are fucking educated on the faith instead of being cultural christians

Cons of orthodoxy
>They are SUPER butthurt about catholics, particularly the Fourth Crusade, and don't seem to shut up about it
>Confession is between you and the same priest always
>Divorce is allowed under certain conditions, for which I have yet to hear an explanation

One of the guys I talked to said that his logic for converting (he had been Anglican) was that Jesus said that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against [the church]", and that since they are prevailing in other churches that they can't be true.

Does anyone want to offer his two cents?

Other urls found in this thread:

catholicbridge.com/orthodox/has_the_orthodox_changed_any_teaching_or_doctrine.php
bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-16/the-orthodox-church-stays-in-the-dark-ages
youtube.com/watch?v=F6EigDGD8J4
archive.org/details/ThePlotAgainstTheChurch_192
youtube.com/watch?v=MXnTbmPxv5g
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm23.htm
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

inb4 baptist fag

Don't devote yourself to a bunch of luciferian child traffickers user.
It's 2018

To which one are you referring?

Ive come back to the catholic church for the past 3-4 years but i am starting to think the same way. Every time i turn on the news theres old francis doing something gayer and more cucked. This cant be the catholicism of old that used to forbid premairtal sex, fornication, birth control, etc. Theyre even shilling gay priests ffs.

Non-denominational Christianity is better.

Non-denominational churches have women pastors you dirty heretic.

>Church organization makes it a nightmare for anything to get (((changed)))
That's the best trait of Orthodoxy imo
>People are fucking educated on the faith instead of being cultural christians
We have MANY cultural Christians, even unironically atheists
>They are SUPER butthurt about catholics, particularly the Fourth Crusade, and don't seem to shut up about it
There are many reasons for this, with crusades being the last one
>Confession is between you and the same priest always
No, you can go to another priest

>changing religions won't save you from your sins.

I think that the divorce part comes into play when your wife has been unfaithful.
Have you thought about checking out Lutheranism, user?

The "sins" have to actually exist for one to be forgiven for commiting them in the first place.

look up vaticancatholic on youtube. It is run by sedevacantist catholic monks who explain their position very clearly and have had debates on the topic

>Religion is a product of ignorance and incapability regarding accepting reality.

No doctrine has changed with Francis. He seems drawn to PC culture and adopting a more meek and merciful attitude towards past enemies of the Church but he has not introduced any new magisteria during his tenure. We have good, bad, great, and lukewarm popes. The actions of a single, fallible (in all ways with the exception of when speaking under the narrow terms of Ex Cathedra) man shouldn't be what tears you away from Christ's Church.

I read up on the divorce thing while I was waiting for the first reply to come in. I get it now.

Sedevacantist churches don't seem to be a thing though, aside from nutters who have their parents elect them pope. The SSPX gets talked about here, but they recognize (((Francis))).

It might be a european thing, I don't know. I haven't been around orthodox people long enough to see more than one person who looked like a thot. The "everyone knows the faith" claim was made by somebody I talked to. Prior to my visiting the church, the only orthodox person I knew was someone with whom I debated religion in elementary school.

Infidel detected

>what is Amoris Laetitia

Just become pic related and quit fagging around with loser Xtianity

Orthodox are worse than protestantised Catholics.

If you have doubts because of theological issues like for example with the amoris laetitia stuff. It's pointless to switch because Orthodox are even worse. They already have communion for divorced and remarried, they already accept contraception, etc.
Their claim of unchanging tradition is refuted by a quick look at their history.
Their Churches are a mess precisely because they reject the pope. They can't agree which Orthodox churches are in commmunion, who is a saint or a martyr who has dominon over which part of land.
If it's because of the liturgy, don't. We literally have the same thing and we have Latin rite.
Most traditional Catholics go to Latin rite parishes or use Byzantine rite of Catholic Church.

Even better would be to actually emulate Christ and stay. Pick up your cross, kneel when receiving Our Lord even when the rest is standing. Don't run. Don't give up.
This is not the first bad pope or heretical movement.

>There are many reasons for this, with crusades being the last one.

And it's pure hypocrisy.
As if Orthodox Church are pure angels with no skeletons in the closet.
What about the The Massacre of the Latins?
The persecution of the Maronites?
And on and on.

A controversial pastoral letter, that hasn't been stated in the criteria of Ex Cathedra nor does it does actual heresy. The vagueness is what everyone's up and arms about

RARE FLAG
Tell me user, why is it that you have the highest fertility rate out of any European country?

Francis is cultural christianity personified, and he relishes the role of the feels pope. I don't give a shit that the priority is marketing RC church, growing market share. I changed stated religion to deny RC shekels because of the shit he is spewing and no longer attend.

>nor does it do actual heresy
>four cardinals and 60 priests officially accuse pope of heresy over it

Religion - no matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney

There are indeed many people who have knowledge about faith issues but "everyone" is an exaggerasion.

The main reason is that catholics are always trying to (((modernize))) us and change our dogma.

But that's wrong. They claim that the open-endedness of its contents is confounding, and in this confusion, heresies have arisen. They charge the Holy Father with being lax in his duties to prevent heresy, not that he is guilty of heresy itself.

Youre a priest arent you?

I'm in the same boat user. My question is does the Orthodox Church recognize events like our lady of fatima or Saint padre pio? I know the time period of that previous said was before the cuck but I'm just curious.

Far from it.

Don't let old frank scare you off. He's a globalist plant. I believe he's been sent precisely to highlight the cultural Christian problem.

> 62 Catholics, including one retired bishop and a former head of the Vatican bank, published an open letter that accused Francis of seven specific counts of heretical teaching.

>The pope’s views on divorce and homosexuality, according to an Archbishop from Kazakhstan, had allowed “the smoke of Satan” to enter the church.

Did we ever find out the real deal with old joe ratzenburger? Was it dementia or was there creedence to the rumors that he had some bad past they were trying to bury?

>catholics are always trying to (((modernize))) us and change our dogma.

No they're not.
You changed your dogma multiple times yourself, though.
And even then you couldn't get all the bishops to agree on the same dogma, because you have no real magisterium with a final authority.

catholicbridge.com/orthodox/has_the_orthodox_changed_any_teaching_or_doctrine.php

In July 2017, a group of 40 conservative Catholic clergy and lay scholars signed and presented to Pope Francis a 25-page document entitled "Correctio filialis de haeresibus propagatis" (A Filial Correction Concerning the Propagation of Heresies).The document states that certain passages fromAmoris laetitiaand other "words, deeds, and omissions" of Pope Francis "are serving to propagate heresies".The document had 62 signatories when it was made public in September after the group received no reply. The most prominent signatories were BishopBernard Fellay, thesuperior generalof theSociety of Saint Pius X, which has been at odds with the Holy See for decades;Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, former president of theVatican bank; andJoseph Shaw, professor of philosophy atOxford University. Dr. Jacob Wood, assistant professor of theology atFranciscan University of Steubenville, said thatAmoris laetitiadoes not explicitly state any of the heresies alleged by the signatories. Rather, "The signatories claim that the pope has failed to stop the spread of heresy, rather than that he has committed the sin of heresy himself."CardinalPietro Parolin, VaticanSecretary of State, indirectly addressed the controversy, advocating for those who disagree with the Pope to dialogue with the church and "find ways to understand one another

>Tfw burger education and can't recognize the flag off the back

If you're gonna go full abrahamic retard, go orthodox christian.

To what are you referring, good sir?

>the gates of hell shall not prevail against [the church]", and that since they are prevailing in other churches that they can't be true.
the Gates prevail vs the church! what?

Just do the proper sign of the cross then. That's your responsibility. I do it you can too. The Eastern church changes very quickly, they rapidly capitulated to allowing contraception and divorce. The liturgy is all vernacular so not uniform. Eastern Orthodoxy is the thinking man's protestantantism so yes they will be quite educated on faith, however they use a lot of weasel words to obscure their rejection of Rome and theology vastly differs from parish and patriarchate to whence there is often no uniform dogmatic theology.

If you are butthurt about what the media says about the Pope then just go traditional Latin mass or Eastern Rite Catholic.

>bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-16/the-orthodox-church-stays-in-the-dark-ages
This was the last attempt, there have been countless others on the past (which included monks torturing etc) but i believe you already know about them.

>not declaring the false "Pope" Jorge Bergoglio a heretic and declaring a one-man war on the Vatican
You're kind of a pussy, I'd reckon, so Baptist would probably be your thing. Meanwhile, I'll be over here trying to save Mother Church from the kikes and commies with the rest of the real men.

Which is why record numbers are leaving the church because of him yes?

>they rapidly capitulated to allowing contraception and divorce
From what I have read elsewhere during this thread, this is only within the Moscow Patriarchate which has been controlled by the KGB for a century. Frankly, something else I like about the ortho is that any damage is localized

>(((Leonid Bershidsky)))
>have to give shekels to actually read the article

lol, that's the best you got?

>non-denominational Christianity
Are they even Trinitarians? Might as well become a polytheistic Freemason Mormon.

>Church organization makes it a nightmare for anything to get (((changed)))

It also makes it impossible to define doctrine or determine what a valid council is beyond a majority vote. Its why you have all kinds of issues regarding contraception and divorce

>Liturgy is uniform, no bringing in aztec dancers or african singing during the worship

Video related youtube.com/watch?v=F6EigDGD8J4 bear in mind there are 50 million of these guys which is almost as much as there are Orthodox Christians outside of Russia.

>People are fucking educated on the faith instead of being cultural christians

Mate you are dreaming, its a huge problem in all mainstream and cultural churches. A lot of people simply are that faith because thats part of being Russian or Greek no different from many Catholics or mainstream protestants. The overwhelming majority of both dont go to Church weekly or read their bibles.

>particularly the Fourth Crusade, and don't seem to shut up about it

Stop hanging out on the internet then, 99% of Orthodox followers have no idea that even happened.

>Confession is between you and the same priest always

Why is this a con?

>Divorce is allowed under certain conditions, for which I have yet to hear an explanation

See point 2.

>and that since they are prevailing in other churches that they can't be true.
The Catholics and Oriental Churches can make just as valid a claim. Likewise even protestants arguments can make some sense here.

No idea. 5 years later he's still kicking so I'm not sure I buy the health excuse.

You don't have to read it, just wonder why some jewish atheists team up with Catholics in "concern" of why the Orthodox church won't become (((modernized))) like them. Can't you just leave us the fuck alone?

>>The pope’s views on divorce and homosexuality, according to an Archbishop from Kazakhstan, had allowed “the smoke of Satan” to enter the church.
Vatican II allowed the smoke of Satan to enter Mother Church, Jorge Bergoglio and those responsible for him are merrily spreading the fire.

How many monks were tortured for contraception to become permissible?

>because of him
Is a stretch

Record numbers are leaving because we're in a cultural tailspin of degeneracy and moral relativism. And despite some remarks by old Francis the position of the church has not changed.

Sede pls go and stay go

>lurking this thread
>so much heresy

I recall something about St. Damian of Molochi (sp?/to hell with google), and one of the lepers asking him 'do you believe I have to be Catholic to get into heaven', to which the Saint replied 'I believe Catholics _can_ go to heaven'.

If you go for Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then you're on the right track. Everything else in this age of universal corruption, division and distraction, is a part of the Cross.

>You don't have to read it

I'm not going to just accept a clickbait article written by a jew as truth because it would be convenient for you.
Can't you you just use your brain for a second?
Was it the Catholics who made you change dogma about divorce?
Was it the Catholics who made you change dogma about contraception?
How?
If you are the true church, how is it possible that heretics can make you change your dogma?
You're not making any sense.

I just wanted to point out that the Ethiopian Orthodox church in your video is part of Oriental Orthodoxy, which is unrelated to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Novus Ordo comes straight from the rectum of Satan, served up by homosexual waiters in a restaurant owned by the Jews.
archive.org/details/ThePlotAgainstTheChurch_192

sede pls

>Ethiopian Orthodox
I should mention, oriental orthodox =/= eastern orthodox. I'm talking about the eastern orthodox here.

>99% of orthodox followers have no idea that even happened
When I visited the sermon was literally nothing but "The Latin Church wasn't there this, and they don't believe that, and they burned down Constantinople, etc. etc.!" I don't know if this is normal but if it is they probably know about it.

>Why is this a con?
Because if I have a regular priest at my local parish I don't like to have to admit to him that I masturbate to traps (I don't, but what I do is almost as bad).

>See point 2.
Has nothing to do with point 2.

One of the people at the orthodox church I went to converted from catholicism immediately after Vatican II. She said the church has gone exactly where she expected it to, and that it's 100% the fault of the Jesuits. and then she recommended me an author.

>Oriental Orthodoxy,
Which according to a growing number of Orthodox is Eastern Orthodoxy and that the schism was based upon a misunderstanding.

To say it is unrelated to Eastern Orthodoxy is pretty disingenuous particularly given their close history and similar lines of argument.

>written by a jew
Well, it's up to you to choose your friends. And i don't think you know what dogma means because we never changed that.

Contraception within marriage is fine, though. It's fornication, and the ease with which it can be done using contraceptives, that is the real issue in society.

And also I read that in this guy's voice for some reason

>masturbate to traps

Why would you gib specifics like that?

>lalalala I can't hear you

Pathetic, you have nothing. You're just sticking your head in the sand and are hoping the mean Catholic will go away if you ignore him.

Guaranteed replies

Are you an autist? How i'm i ignoring you? Do you know what dogma means?

it's ur bread

youtube.com/watch?v=MXnTbmPxv5g

Here we go. This is what I'm here for.

>it wasn't the real dogma that changed

You sound like a marxist apologetic

You seem confounded.

>I should mention, oriental orthodox =/= eastern orthodox. I'm talking about the eastern orthodox here.

On what grounds do you reject the Oriental Orthodox?

> I don't know if this is normal but if it is they probably know about it.

Its not.

>Because if I have a regular priest at my local parish I don't like to have to admit to him that I masturbate to traps

Fair enough.

>Has nothing to do with point 2.

Sorry I meant point 1. Church ogranisaiton means its almost impossible to get consistency on matters like this.

Then t ake a look at bizarre things like the Toll Houses which some Orthodox jurisdictions believe that when you die you soul goes into the sky where faces a series of tests by demons of varying levels before you can reach heaven.

pls sede

...

Christian dogma is summarized in the the Symbol of Faith and you are the only ones who changed that. All the other things you are talking about are rules from the churche to help people with their lifes and to become good Christians.

You know that guy was based on a real person

Do you think remarrying divorcees isnt something which is a radical changing of the sacrament of marriage? How come?

>Toll Houses
Are you the one that made this?

And this is all that Orthodox really have.
Hurr you make the sign of the cross from left to right instead of right to left.
And then you call me autistic.

It is still concidered a heavy sin tho but the church is not here to judge people, that's up to God, but to help them even if they are sinners.

we oughta get the BLM niggers to start attending mass and have them whoop it up with "AMEN!", "GLORY HALLELUJAH!", "YOU PREACH IT FATHER!", "LAWZY JESUS IZE SEE THE LIGHT!" seriously, do it for the lulz

No, but regardless of the low grade memes its a nice illistration of some of the issues you get in the East Orthodox Church once you scratch the surface and get past the Orientalism.

>It is still concidered a heavy sin tho but the church is not here to judge people

The bigger issue is changing a sacrament and telling the people that this change is acceptable in the eyes of God - in essence doing what you consider unforgivable in Catholicism.

I'm starting to lose patience here. That's what dogma mean, not anything of what you said but exacly this, the Symbol of Faith is the Christian dogma.

Which is only true about Catholics who follow the Latin rite by the way.
Catholics of the Byzantine rite make the sign of the cross just like your average Russian or Greek Orthodox.
It's even customary for Latins to use the three finger thing when entering a Church.

cannot take this site seriously when it says that orthodox "changed on the immaculate conception" which wasn't a thing in the roman church until like 1860? not sure how orthodox can 'change' roman additions and proclamations made after the schism..

retarded text

When I was a kid there was a priest in Tanzania who would do a mission here every summer, he pulled this kind of stunt. He even tried to teach people Swahili. Never did succeed. Ultimately he was banned from the US because he got his paperwork crosswise

>unforgivable in Catholicism
until recently

Catholics of the Byzantine rite are orthodox in all but name.

>to the abomination that we've become

Stop reading headlines and read the actual statements.

The hole story is based on 2 real persons

>changing a sacrament and telling the people that this change is acceptable in the eyes of God
Yeah except nothing of these happened.

>the liturgy is all vernacular so not uniform

it's uniform in its meaning you dolt.. you do realize you can say the same thing but in different languages, right?

Use your brain and realise it's all bullshit with no actual evidence to back it up

Oh nevermind just noticed your flag. Go about your business dummy

>Catholics of the Byzantine rite are orthodox in all but name.
Except for the dogmas they believe in. Which are exactly the same as those of the Latin rite.
Otherwise their Church wouldn't be able to be in communion with Rome.

>Non-denominational Christianity is better.
isn't that just modernity and the destruction of tradition but with a little bit of flavor so bugmen don't feel so bad about the meaningless of their life?

It was accepted dogma before
It wasn't 'official' until the Church felt compelled to define it (something like that) from the Chair

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm23.htm

don't know what Belgium is on about tho
didn't click it
don't know that url

Wasn't Filioque one of the causes of the schism? Yet the Byzantine rite leaves it out. That's the first thing I notice.

>155388214

Many things that the autists take issue with are clarifications and taking things to their logical conclusions by having extensive theological debates.
There is a difference between not being clearly stated by scripture and being contrary to scripture.

>Gah, look at all these corrupt bishops trying to change Catholic attitudes towards divorce, birth control, and homosexuality
>Let me convert to a religion that is permissive to divorce, completely reversed their position on birth control in the last century, and are very likely to do the same with homosexuality


the eastern autistdox church is only viewed as appealing by edgy, doctrinally illiterate Catholics because it is "foreign" and "exotic".

If they really read into it, they would find that it is an airy fairy mystic corruption of christianity that is full of ambiguous doctrine that keeps changing (like birth control, as mentioned)

You can rant and rave about papa Frankie liking immigrants or whatever, but at the end of the day, I'd rather stand by the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church established by Christ.

I believe it's you who has been corrupted. Listen to your heart and not the propaganda spewed by Sup Forumstards.

>t. brainlet

>Yeah except nothing of these happened.
Except it did when it introduced the "you can remarry up to 3 times and its ok rule"

/thread