What's your argument that business owners can't raise their wages ?

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>stop creating businesses

btfo

>ITT people that have never run a business

Any business owner that takes someone that looks like that seriously should be humiliated indeed.

>you mean you make PROFITS from hiring staff?!
>next you'll be telling me you sell things for more than you bought them
>what, you account for fucking groud rent and utilities in your proces too?!
>fucking shit I literally can't even

Those overheads will take care of themselves

>these are your future economics grads

>why does dramatically increasing the cost of labor dramatically affect their bottom line
This is why that thing in the picture can't get anything better than a minimum wage job.

liberal here. most people go into business to make money. if you want to make money working for a business timing and your skill are the deciding factors.
It is a great time to ask for a raise. Unemployment is under 4% in a lot of markets, and this is literally considered full employment. Employees have a lot of choices on who they want to work for and this should drive wages up.
Now the opposite would be in 2008 right after the crash, when 700,000+ people were being laid off a month.

Want more money ? Have skills, don't be afraid to ask for a raise or leave.

>be company
>have relatively skilled employees, already paying all employees more than $14/hr
>minimum wage goes from $8/hr to $14/hr
>can't hire or keep high quality employees at $14/hr, have to raise wages
>$14/hr employees now earn $21/hr
>$21/hr employees want to be paid more than the entry level employeess
>$21/hr employees pre-wage increase now earn $26/hr
>This ripples up the entire payroll
>payroll costs are up 35%
>can no longer afford having an administrative assistant for every department, lay 3 off
>can no longer afford to have a barista serving employees free drinks to keep them happy, lay barista off
>to avoid other layoffs, no longer offer free snacks and lunch-and-learns
>CEO decides we need to cancel hardware upgrades, everybody stuck on 4-year old PCs
>irrational neckbeard senior sys-admin quits in mountain dew code red fueled rage
>hiring new sys-admin now costs $135k/year
>wtf
>at $14/hr, McDonalds can afford to hire college students instead of niggers
>Niggers even poorer than before
>leftists screaming 'if you can't afford to pay all of your employees $20/hr, you should be ashamed'
>mfw

Yes business owners, trust the multicolored hair SJW...

I've seen alot of people harping on stores for raising prices and cutting voluntary benefits of employees here in Ontario, they don't seem to understand that most fast-food restaurants are franchise-based.

Because it will rise inflation. Workers cannot do shit to wages, consumers can though. If the cost of living is too high then it is the duty of the consumer to haggle the prices down. Consumers are literally in control of inflation. If we increase wages then wages will chase inflation and we will get nothing more than higher prices.

Well.. blame liberal tax policies. Liberals bitch to tax businesses to death. When in reality, they are creating a group of businesses that can afford the higher taxes and wages. While others just flounder. It inadvertently makes bigger businesses stronger with less to compete against.

And given that the min. wage hike is happening in mostly liberal states, they probably have shitty business tax programs as well. You can't tax businesses to death and expect them to pay insane wages. Liberals. Come the fuck on.

> I hate Wal-mart so I want taxes to make them pay more but really I am just hurting small/mid sized businesses and making it easier for Wal-Mart to make more money

>force people to work harder for more money
>criminal

If you're not a high schooler or college student, and have no skills or talents whatsoever and you can't get anything better than a minimum wage job then you are a useless eater who contributes no real value to society and you don't even deserve to be paid minimum wage.

Those people who are unhappy with their wage are free to leave the position for a higher paying job. If the business in question wants to retain their employers, they will raise their wages to remain competitive.

That deosn't ever matter, the fact is that the fast food industry has two of the largest job occupations in the world; cooks and cashiers. Anybody can cook and anybody can make change and that is why they are paid so little. These are jobs anybody can do. Now if you want to work fast food or retail and make money then you need to be deeper in the company like truck driver, warehouse worker, merchandising, accounting, tech support.

>Capitalism is so based
>here's why
>be me
>my grandpa paid off his property of 5 acres and one (3bdr) house in 1971
>my dad and his siblings (2 brothers and 1 sister) all lived with my grandpa till their mid 20s
>they never paid rent and saved for 6-9 years, while working and living there
>now, me, my 3 brothers and 2 cousins live in grandpa's house
>there are 5 additional cottages on property, for living (each cottage cost the family a mere $12k-ish)
>we all work skilled labor (the highest earner is getting $71k a year, while me [a mechanic] is getting $43k a year [after taxes])
>each of our monthly bill/expenses for the household is $90 a month
>we have been living like this for 4 years
>our family has done this type of family fund saving pool system for 45+ years
>debt & rent is alien to us
>the pooling, saving and investing we've done has accumulated a MASSIVE amount of wealth and prosperity
God Bless America.
>living alone in a apartment, worrying about making ends meet
Hell no boy, family is key.
>true redpill: generational family pooling

>can no longer afford

of course shit businesses will shit the bed, this is literally you argument? "SAVE THE SHIT BUSINESSES"

Businesses are not obligated to provide a living for the stupid/unskilled/untalented.

Fuck off, Twilight Barkle.

>>irrational neckbeard senior sys-admin quits in mountain dew code red fueled rage
I have done exactly this once.

...sigh....

Oh good, you understand a lesson from the first month of the first year of an economics class. Now you think you're an economist.

faggot that's step 1 in analyzing the impact of a min. wage. You need like a dozen more steps

I was more so bringing it up because people are attacking the owners of the locations even though they are practically small business owners and not corprorate millionaires.

>open a business
>pay your workers more
>do it, faggot

Fill in the remaining steps then, smart boy

ok, but what do you do when your dad is a fucking nigger, literally, and had nothing to do with you, and your mom had substance abuse issues and beat the shit out of you during your childhood and then killed herself before you became an adult?

Yeah, capitalism wasn't so nice to me

>what's your argument

Basic math.

You're not an intellectual. You're a fraud.

Doing things the right way. Good job user.

The prices of most things went up in the months leading up to the minimum wage raise though, the money is worth less

The only silver lining I can see is that the value of previous debts went down

no. That's a lot of work. I'm tired of people demanding that everything be spelled out for them. You know how long it would take me to explain everything? I'd be sitting here for 30 mins posting just to answer your question on a basic level. Fuck off.

I have a master's in econ and it took me a fucking long time to get it. If you aren't educated in economics, admit your ignorance and recognize your opinion is worthless, then either stay worthless or go and educate yourself.

These retards think your supposed to work at Tim Hortens all your life. if the government really cared for these "poor workers" they would lower taxes instead of passing the bill to the businesses.

>Capitalism wasn't so nice to me
No, user your parents weren't so nice to you.
Shitstains like those should never be allowed to breed.

>masters in econ
>doesn't understand burden of proof
>thinks appeal to authority is a legitimate argument to make
You probably work at Taco Bell.

And the brainlet runs away in shame when confronted.

>...sigh....

Unfortunately there will always be an underclass because humans are all inherently unequal.

I have 7 people that work for me

I only hire skilled talent

they all make over $50/hr

not a hard concept

He already admitted to being half a nigger.
Brainlet confirmed

The employee can leave and work somewhere else. Business owners don not draft people to work for them, and it is against the law to force someone to work in a job which doesn't pay him what you feel is enough. Look it up, if the employee is worth more, someone else will pay him more.

Yes no more illegal immigrants making less than 14/hour.
I fully support this and anyone who tries to pay immigrants less should be publically humiliated.

Honestly, i can't argue that.

We opened a business once, and picked a good location (booming area). Our biggest problem was finding good help. The people that wanted to work, were already working, and I couldn't match the wages the oilfields paid. Thus, I had a huge turnover rate.

I couldn't really pay much more than what i was, but I found a way to keep a few people that hired in. It's a balancing act.

Be the starting point.

But its ok to pay illegals less than minimum wage to work in the fields and mow lawns?
Liberal logic

Yeah, of course you are not SUPPOSED to.
But the reality is that many people HAVE to work at places like that because there are only so many positions that pay higher wages.
At the end of the day somebody is going to have to mop some fucking floors, flip burgers, guard warehouses etc etc etc and those people need to be paid a wage high enough to where they can live and save for retirement.

>leaf
Like you had a chance anyways

What's the SL line?

No they really don't you commie bastard if you end up flipping burgers in your 30's you fucked up its not up to society to provide for you because you failed to provide for yourself.

So your profits come from hiring noone at no wage?

Oh god.


Okay. Where do I even begin?

-Look at the economy: what proportion of economic output goes to wages vs business profits vs government taxation and spending

-Look at government spending, how much does the government spend on welfare programs and redistribution programs, look at the cost of poverty

-Look at the savings/spending rate of different income groups, the bottom quintile vs top quintile. What does the top quintile do with its money? Does it import more goods? Does it travel more? Probably. Look at the bottom quintile - do they spend their money on domestic services? Probably

Look at business profits. How much will they decline by this min wage hike? Look at bottom quintile wages, how much will they increase?

Now look at labour productivity, marginal labour costs for low wage workers. How likely is it that those businesses can/will implement labour saving technology?

You have to look at all of that. Every example is different and you have to analyze it on a case by case basis. I'm not saying it's always better to raise the min. wage but in some cases (probably quite a few) it would actually benefit the economy as a whole because it would actually increase domestic consumption and can decrease government spending on poverty/wealth redistribution, paving the way for tax cuts.

It's really fucking complicated - nothing exists in a vaccuum. Ceteris paribus is something you use in the classroom, it doesn't apply to reality

Most businesses are seasonal and struggle anywhere between 5-7 months out of the year to stay afloat.

You want higher wages? Cleanse the country of all of its impurities that have caused the value of the dollar to go down. Primarily illegal immigration, kikes, and HIV-B visas. We're way to overpopulated which causes a bigger demand for things like housing and food, which reflexively drives prices up, then more taxes are needed to take care of all these extra people.

Less people= value of everything goes down because of lack of demand which makes the purchasing power of the dollar a lot stronger.

If you weren't born in America get the fuck out

Liberals and their arguments are never consistent across the board. When they're talking about minimum wage, it's always 'a good business should be able to pay a living wage to ALL its workers. period. (clap hands emoji)' but when they're talking about illegal immigrants it's always 'but...but... think of the impact that will have on those poor farmers. They NEED those illegals because white ppl don't want to work a minimum wage agriculture job. It will hurt businesses'. Maybe if the farmers didn't have the option of hiring an illegal under the table for $5/hr, they'd pay a living wage in order to attract the non-illegals who demand a higher salary...

Sorry you were born into a family of degenerates. Try again next tme Canuck.

That's another thing I don't get about raising the minimum wage. Let's say a burger flipper makes $8/hr and another guy makes $15/hr busting his ass at a different job but is actually happy with his pay. Minimum wage is raised up to $15/hr, now the burger flippers are making the same as the guy busting his ass.

Is the guy busting his ass going to get a major pay raise as well, or is he all of a sudden now making minimum wage? Because if that was me I'd be leaving that job to go work at McDonalds where I can fucking slack off drunk at work or whatever for the same pay.

supply of labor

hey bro im a casual at a supermarket in australia and i make $22p/h why cant amerifats just increase wages and be profitable? lol

>THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN MAKE MONEY IS BY AVOIDING OVERWHELMING EXPENSES?
>SHAME ON YOU

Yeah and your cost of living is higher then ours. its almost as if people have more money prices go up.

>can decrease government spending on poverty/wealth redistribution, paving the way for tax cuts.
Why not get rid of government spending entirely and lower the minimum wage? That way, it brings in a lot more competition, yes?

Inflation will rise, wages increase for common low skill jobs and wages in medium skilled work also rise. Or worse wages are basically depressed in medium skilled jobs.

>▶
Graduated college. Never read Das Kapital.

Or you can lower consumer prices and keep wages the same which would be more profitable.

allegedly

for most businesses, especially smaller ones in the food-service industry, wages and staff expenses are usually the largest expenses.

Most small businesses survive on very small margins and increasing min wage to $14 (i don't know where this is, but I think it's in Ontario) is a dramatic increase in a huge expense for all businesses, and hurts smaller ones that can't afford it more than any large corporation

Businesses paid what they had to.
Yeah, some choose to pay more so they can keep good staff and get rid of useless people more quickly.
And now those businesses that paid a bit more than min wage are going to be paying the new min wage.
Costs will go up on everything to make it work, and the cycle will continue when the next round of useless eaters will demand min wage increases.

I don't disagree but I think inflation and illegal immigration is more of a problem

The US dollar and Aus dollar do not have the same value, the tax structures are different as well, and the price levels are different. Making $22 an hour in Australia is probably equivalent, in buying power after taxes, to a $10 an hour job in the US.

>settled for master's instead of ph.d in econ and b.a. and mathematics
Don't worry. When we start hiring we'll start you out as temp for minimum wage so you can write us a thesis on it.

We don't need minimum wage.
We need a living wage.
And its not 15 dollars an hour, nor 14
More like around 10, at most. If not 9
It should be raised, but not drastically.

Businesses that have a low profit margin in order to compete with other companies would be the ones hurt. I wouldn't consider providing products at a lower cost than competitors and getting put out of business by the government shit.

The PPP - purchasing power parity - of australia is 166% of the US

on average, most things in australia will be around 66% more expensive than they are in the US

And to add, those bourgeois faggots need to realize that having a phone, a new car, and an internet connection, as well as going out to eat and or drinking coffee from starbucks is not a "must".
Nor socialists, nor marxists support this shit
Those people need some new term to identify them. Soyboy works fine, but what do we call women?

You do need a minimum wage, it is used as a measuring stick to gauge consumer prices. Or instead of raising wages you can lower prices. Lower prices would take the inflationary pressure off of wages and make the wage go further.

>but what do we call women?
Useless.

>companies should be forced to pay a minimum amount
>we don’t need a minimum wage
Commies are so fucking brainwashed

Full time minimum wage employment is not a poverty wage.
Some morons seem to think if you don't have a comfortable middle class lifestyle immediately in your twenties there MUST be government intervention.

Tbh, a $2/hour raise isn't gonna make much difference for the payee or the employer... Over an 8 hour day that covers a cheap lunch and a coffee.. The dangerous implications of the min raising will be noticed in larger companies who are obligated to provide benefits to their full time (37+ hours/week) employees, who when looking at their bottom line will likely decide that they have to cut back in benefits to make up for the wage increase via not hiring anyone for a full-time job, and instead will only hire people on as part time.

I already know a lot of people who work 2 or 3 jobs because they can't wrangle a full time one and it doesn't sound fun

I imagine a national $14/hr wage will be the final push to make robotic burger machines economically viable.

So lol-goodbye to a majority of fast food staff.

LOL holy fuck that is not what PPP means you fucking retard. If avg Aus PPP is 166% the US, it means the avg Aus can buy 66% more shit with their income than the avg American

I don't care about the (((companies)))
That is a difference between me and you, the kike
Why do you care so much that some faggot kike CEO is forced to give up his 400k salary, and cut it down to 380k? Does it offend you?
I am not pushing 15 dollars an hour meme for reasons i outlined, i merely say that its rational to have a wage on which you can survive (Bare minimum)
If you make more, good for you.

What a shit argument.

Making cashiers and cooks obsolete would actually help them as it would make them harder to find. The fewer of them there are the higher people will pay them for their services. Really everything comes down to those two occupations because they are the only ones asking for more money. Janitors are usually lumped in with handymen and have some skills, they get higher wages.

Automation will cut millions of people out of jobs.
Not just burger flippers
Warehouse workers, truck drivers, drivers in general, factory workers, cashiers, retail workers, list goes on
Those people won't have money. Stock market will collapse. So will those businesses
To be honest, this is doom for all of us.

We already do, its called cost of living and companies already make adjustments for them based off of what region they are in. COL is higher in cities while lower in rural areas however rural areas are cheaper to live in. Its better to get a job that has these adjustments already in them

A country wide min wage is a retarded idea.
There's such a big difference if you earn let's say $4000 in NYC or Iowa.
It's the difference of rock bottom lower class to solid lower middle class.

Basics of business: If you pay someone $10/hour he has to net you at least $30 per hour else you're better off doing the job yourself or going out of business. $10 goes to rent, admin, benefits, maintenance, reserves, expanding, taxes, and other shit, $10 are your own salary (you want at least a salary on pair with your employee right)

So if your employees only net you $30/h and you have to get $42/h out of it yeah you either cut hours, benefits, turn to government financed scams like the 420€ jobs in germany or go out of business.

Maybe in the long term. The short-term will be a massive unemployement wave as a dozen people per location are replaced with robo-cooks and kiosks.

Each industry has it's own set of challenges in regards to automation implementation. But as far as I can tell, the only one really standing in the way of automating away fast food jobs is the cost of entry. Literally the only reason we still have fry cooks at McDonald's is due to humans still being cheaper than machines.

>what do you do

You be the grandpa of his story.

There is no law, philosophy, or society you can create that will lift the stain of your upbringing; only you can, from the inside out.

Cashiers and cooks are the ones mostly affected by automation as their jobs are the easiest to do. The other jobs are much harder and still require lots of human interaction. It will still take many years before other medium skilled jobs are cut.

There average rent is way higher then anything in my city, there bread costs more, there milk costs more, there hydro bills are higher. the cost of living in Australia is higher then ours, also our dollar is worth more.

two problems though, no one on this board is skilled, and they're all afraid

Dammit man, use numbers like a normal person

The "non-shit" companies you're so excited about, the ones that can weather the storm, are mostly large companies; corporations and multinationals. The local places, small chains, and mom-and-pop stores that compete on a small scale for your business will be hurt the worst.

It's not about shit or non-shit, it's about scale and cash reserves. The idea that a minimum wage increase would cull away inefficient or unworthy companies is false.

this has been happening every year for over a century, it's called technological progress. Stop being such a retarded fucking inbred cunt.

We live in our cars here in Canada because Trudeau is a cocksucking idiot

wow I like that quote, thanks

Even big brain niggers stumble on a diamond of truth after a hard rain

They should be ashamed of their inefficiency if their revenue depends on cheap labor

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

The average Australian earns slightly more than the average Canadian, taking into account everything, including differences in prices.

I'm sorry you don't understand what PPP is, but that's not my problem

there isn't one

there's no right to have a profitable business