Is Sup Forums in favour of conscription for the ethnostate?
I am for it: >is the most cost-effective solution for a big defensive force >every able-bodied man becomes a protector of the nation >teaches valuable skills such as shooting, warfare and survival in the woods >cures men from NEETdom and gives them many friends for life >strengthens national unity >best protection against tyrannical government >creates a common inter-generational theme in every man's life 6 months is more than enough to teach basic roles and 9-12 months for specialized and NCO roles. Longer service time means more interesting and more prestigious tasks and employers respect more those with leadership experience. I myself did only 6 months and kind of regret not doing longer.
The common myth that ''professional soldiers are better'' is not true. Soldiers in professional armies usually have lower IQ because you mostly get bottom-of-the-barrel types voluntarily applying. There's nothing technically demanding in a soldier's job, it's application of tactics that matters and there's no way to teach that tactical awareness. You have to have brains to know when it's smart to do what.
>ethnostate You teens/failure 20somethings really show how pathetic you are when you throw around memey buzzword talking points. Get a life, you sad faggot. If you want to be surrounded by white people, buy a house in a decent neighbourhood. Broke bitch.
Nathaniel Allen
How are you going to survive the collapse if you can't even use a gun? Are you going to throw it away once it jams the first time and you don't know how to clean it?
Gabriel Ramirez
Outdated practice for thrid-world shitholes that nobody would willingly fight for.
Also, >hazing and brutal initiation rituals >government indoctrination >morale, training and gear are utter shit compared to professional armies >many of the draftees will develop a deep resentment for authority >getting shipped to some third-world hellhole to fight and die for corrupt elites
Nicholas Brown
Oh look, a triggered Pakistani!
Why hide in a neighbourhood behind large walls like a cuck when I could have a whole country or continent to roam without having my NAP violated by the sight of your dirty brown skin?
Brayden Brown
>hazing Only in third-world shitholes and Russia. >government indoctrination Defending your people is indoctrination? Sounds like you haven't had enough. >morale, training and gear are utter shit compared Not in wealthy countries. In poor countries, the professional armies have shit equipment. >many of the draftees will develop a deep resentment for authority No they don't if the conscription is planned in a good fashion. Norwegian, Finnish, Swiss and Austrian men do not have problems with authority in general. I for one learned the importance of authority and hierarchy, without them the world wouldn't work. >getting shipped to some third-world hellhole That's professional armies, with conscript armies you are going to have a harder time explaining interventionism.
William Flores
>make fun of finland on Sup Forums >some Finnish guy says he's going to place a curse on me >laugh it off and call him a mongol >wake up two weeks later with this in my mailbox
wtf do I do now?
Mason Edwards
You have to go. This is not a third-world conscript army that you can ''buy'' yourself out of. Being a millionaire doesn't exempt you from military service.
Matthew Rivera
How the fuck you did not know that you have finnish nationality?
Isaiah Johnson
Yeah. Why not
Wyatt Johnson
Can you stop LARPing about this "ethnostate"? It's pretty obvious this will never gonna happen even on a small scale.
Angel Perry
Also for arguments sake pretend that the globalists are not in power and we wouldn't have our fucked up demographics, but a true ethnostate. I don't expect anyone to die for refugees. In case of war, they can't physically force you to fight against your will, you know. If Finland got in a war with Russia, I wouldn't go if I felt that it was instigated by EU/NATO.
Glad to see sane cunts on Sup Forums too. It seems like many on this place are fans of militarism but don't like being the ones who would ever have to touch a gun.
Jacob Price
What are you talking about? Estonia and Finland almost are ethnostates. Just a few foreigners too many and the leaders are all globalists trying their best to ruin it. Ethnostate is not a radical idea, mutt.
Angel Myers
You're correct senpai. Our army is still undergoing deep changes and looks like, it's for the better. Many units actually give conscripts decent training and all that. Hazing is much less of an issue too, of course, there are exceptions, but it's a completely different world when compared to 90s.
Eli Hughes
>both >lists three things
Ryan Wood
I don't know how happy I am about that. In the theoretical chance I would ever have to meet Russians, I'd prefer them to be poorly trained. What is stopping the ending of hazing? Do the generals not care, or are they powerless to stop it? You'd think that they would care, I've heard that many intentionally injure themselves only to avoid service. In Finland it's unheard about, only the lowest 20% of bodily/mental fitness are exempted, and most men don't have a problem with entering service.
Also is it true that only 20% of Russian men do their service, or am I reading this picture wrong?
Gabriel Butler
Hhahahahah leave your snow hut sometime and see Helsinki for yourself(pic related). You are clearly retarded, the fact Estonia or Poland is mostly european is not because of some ethnic, or anti-inmigration policies, it because niggers don't want to go there.
Cameron Williams
Literally joining the Army this year so I might be biased
Zachary James
would nut here
watch a youtube vid on how to
Nicholas Jenkins
>would nut her
Caleb Diaz
I don't want to serve in the army.
Samuel Barnes
Hey nigger, afraid of being deported? Just wait for the ethnostate.
That explains it.
>societal collapse >thinking YouTube works No
Lincoln Scott
i will probably get conscripted after i finish uni and yes army is best red pill you can get nothing will teach you and give you experience like army and our army is literally based >no fags >no tranies >no niggers inb4 fighting for isreal, nigger please you dont have to serve there forever finishing basic training is enough and you can quit after it but experience will remain forever.
Justin Martin
you and me both
Connor Russell
also is this from a yle doc? post source
Justin Johnson
It's a waste of time and it's full of degenerates.
Alexander Anderson
pretty cool bro. I'd do it. but then again i'm not a finnish citizen. at least you won't be fighting for israel's interests. I'd love to join the Marine Corps, but fuck israel
Carter Smith
>thinking YouTube works yes it does
>societal collapse if it comes what makes you think you will ever get to your military issued weapon
serving is for cucks better get a gun and practice yourself
also the pic doesnt give me any better view of your army actually russians will eat you for dinner
Cameron Howard
dear finland, once you start your ethnostate, would you help us get one too? sadtimes ahead if something is not done
Benjamin Smith
true its a waste of your time
Zachary Nelson
yeah check out this leftist protest in helsinki in 2015 i count 3 non-finns, two appear to just be walking away from the scene and one might be a street vendor.
John Diaz
So long as we have a commissar backing us up, otherwise we'll lose too many men to morale.
Caleb Howard
For it, if the following is met: >No secret operations >No blackening of files
Conscripts aren't likely shoot at citizens/their brethren
Eli Jones
Dude, don't fall for the "white" bullshit. We're meds, we're good.
David Lee
>lots of uncut guys >young men >communal showers >friends for life >group wank sessions >condoms optional I am in favour of this idea
Nicholas Baker
That girl is called Pirita. It's from a YLE series called ''Naissotilaat'' (female conscripts). They follow around the conscripts for 9 episodes, I guess. I haven't watched it. They're 3 women and 1 genderless swampmonster. Some guy on Ylilauta is editing it and going to upload it with only the attractive girl doing stuff. Nobody wants to see that swampmonster.
im not crying about meds, meds awesome, im talking about the neverending influx of blackies on "boats" that we're suffering
Ryder Bell
i remember being a conscript soldier back in the 90s good times
Jayden Jones
They're gonna drop, stuff like that takes years. At least we're doing something now, I heard the immigrant arrivals are dropping. Plus our military is gonna cooperate with Lybia.
Andrew Rivera
Learning warfare is not a waste of time.
You know we have regularly military exercises with professional armies and Finnish conscripts always BTFO ''professional soldiers''? Goofing around on free time has no effect on how you train from 6:00-18:00.
What is gay for civillians is fraternity in the army :DD
Kevin Gonzalez
Not with today's welfare regulations. It only works if you can beat the ill mannered shits half to death.
Noah Ross
Well, right now the hazing problem generally revolves around the apelike behavior of Chechens and other kind of Arab-like Muslim mountain niggers.
Also, don't worry, Russia is never invading Finland again. Too costly and overall meaningless. You're not joining NATO, right?
Matthew Barnes
Also, yeah, a lot of people prefer not to serve, but I wouldn't say that only 20% of able-bodied males are conscripted, the issue is that many males are just unfit to serve due to medical reasons (or they bribe doctors to make it look like it on paper)
Anthony Flores
1/19 never returns home
Jonathan Bennett
t. confirmed for never having served.
>hazing and brutal initiation rituals
Kui sa just 90date algul ei teeninud, siis sa ei tea millest sa räägid.
Agreed on all points. I'm surprised your service was only 6 months, though. I did 8 (the shortest possible) and felt that it wasn't long enough for us to really get the hang of some things.
Owen Cook
Strictly speaking I think it's far from ethical and it gives the political elite a lot of power. That's fine if the political elite are your friends, but often they're not. Maybe if your army is an independent entity that can stage a coup at any time it would be better.
Also I think it's just untrue to say we need massive standing armies. Massive standing armies are only good for invasion, and a proper ethnostate only needs a defensive force. The point of a defensive force is that it's NOT big. Defense is an order of magnitude cheaper than aggression and it needs way fewer people. You can keep a larger reserve force if you want, depending on how aggressive your neighbors are.
The other issue is that if a government has access to infinite manpower, there's less incentive for them to invest in military technology that reduces the need for manpower. A military with the ability to draft people will not economize the lives of their soldiers effectively.
Less strictly speaking, we've lost all male rites of passage and this is a cultural problem that conscription would help ease. My dad has often said the only way to solve the inner city black male problem is to conscript them for a couple years, and I think there's truth here.
Michael Long
Why the hell would you have to do that? There's no hazing in Finnish Defence Forces and everything works great.
Wouldn't the generals do something to stop them? Are people afraid to report abuse? And yeah, I hope we are not joining NATO. I don't want to die in a war for globalists. For the reason you said, our military is ridiculously strong for what value this frozen wasteland could ever deliver to Russia.
>#Peacekeeping_operations Not warfare, you nigger.
Nathan Gonzalez
Absolutely not.
Our all volunteer force has enough issues already without throwing in shitbags that don't want to be there into the mix.
I don't want some libtard whiny little soyboy watching my back when I'm downrange.
Dominic Gray
Conscription into public works projects, yes. 2 years. Work 2 more earn your post secondary education.
Julian Sanders
>I'm surprised your service was only 6 months, though. I did 8 (the shortest possible) and felt that it wasn't long enough for us to really get the hang of some things
I don't know how it works there, but in Finland there's quite strict specialization in most branches of service. I'm a signalist in anti-air forces, and I got no no real idea about most of the infantry tactics and equipment, but I got quite a good hang of building miles of wired connections in the woods and cursing at the assault rifle that's always in the way.
Christopher Moore
I did some joint exercises with your Navy about 10 years ago. Y'all do have a very high average for your service members, I have to say. I was surprised to see Somalis in Helsinki, but everything else about Finland was cool.
Jack Brooks
>stronk womyn soldier grrrrlz
Holy shit kill yourselves.
Anthony Miller
Mandatory National Service - 6 years active duty, 4 years reserve. Can be reevaluated later. Absolutely ZERO gibs/benefits until after honorable completion
Brandon Sanchez
Another look and that map said 20% of population, so it takes account women. Which means
Hunter Thompson
>Wouldn't the generals do something to stop them? Are people afraid to report abuse? And yeah, I hope we are not joining NATO. I don't want to die in a war for globalists. For the reason you said, our military is ridiculously strong for what value this frozen wasteland could ever deliver to Russia. Actually, the reason for improvement is actually that, people are not silent about bullying anymore, and officers are risking not just their salary and rank, but they're risking jail time. Preventing the existing hazing at this point is possible pretty much only by limiting the conscription of mountain peoples. And regarding the hypothetical war between us now, at least Russia these days has toys like tactical (non-nuclear) ballistic missiles with high precision and a shit ton of other stuff, so our performance probably wouldn't be as pathetic as it was during the Winter War. Although something tells me that fighting the Finnish infantry in the snow would still be nightmarish.
Charles Sullivan
I am not You wouldnt use a hammer as a shovel Some people are fit for service. Some are not. I dont believe it creates friendship, it just breaks men into an indoctrinated system. Don't get me wrong here, I support the army, but they brainwash the people in the system. It doesnt create much room for free thought, which is critical for innovation. More focus on STEM is something I support. Less focus on arts and whatnot.
Angel Young
Good to hear if boatguys could do their job too. Yeah sadly Helsinki got their first batch of Somalis in the 90s already.
Calm down there big boi, Pirita is much nicer to look at than real soldiers.
At least it would be hardcore.
Jack Hughes
It's pretty similar for us. I was in infrantry recon myself.
>cursing at the assault rifle that's always in the way.
I remember that shit too well from doing the same thing in basic. The worst was dragging the wire high up in the trees where it inevitably got stuck. And then later undoing it all. Thank fuck we only had to do it a few times.
Colton Martin
Ignore it. They cant do shit. Worst case you revoke your Finnish nationality. Who cares, its Finland
Julian Miller
I was a professional soldier and I feel like I would be better than conscripts. >t. six years as a navy hospital corpsman
Blake Miller
As long as the non whites get conscripted first and only when they die do they get replaced.
Jack White
he won't be able to visit finland in the future though, without possibly facing a short jail sentence.
Then again the likelihood of him ever visiting finland was probably nill
Elijah Hughes
In an ethnostate- yes. In a multicultural Netherlands as of today- No. In a metropolitan country- no. In a country like America - no. Conscription can only work in an ethnostate, and not in vague, diverse metropolitan societies. Forcing conscription in the latter would be the same as slavery, while conscription in an ethnostate is just family duty.
Matthew Hall
>is the most cost-effective solution for a big defensive force Its not. You spent millions on people who will never actually fight. >every able-bodied man becomes a protector of the nation That should come with being a man, not with a service. Your society is fucked if you have to force men to become men. >teaches valuable skills such as shooting, warfare and survival in the woods So the things that come with being a man again. Since every man interested in those. >cures men from NEETdom and gives them many friends for life It doesn't. You clearly never served. Neets in army are fucking pain for their unit and usually bullied into faking illness in order to be commissioned. >strengthens national unity Not enough. >best protection against tyrannical government Or best supply of meat for it. >creates a common inter-generational theme in every man's life Should come with being a man yet again.
I think conscription should be a requirements if you want to vote. But your arguments for it are absolute ass.
Luke Flores
What makes you think you're not fit? We had ridiculously weak guys in our company that managed to do their job with honour. Also weird persons in general. I myself did recieve a few good friends that I still regularly meet years after service ended. I know others do too get friends from there, everyone that wants. Only ~15-20% of our men are not fit for service, or they decide to go for a 12 month civillian service instead.
I did not get the feeling of ''brainwash'' from army. Sure it's kind of shock the first week that you actually have to oblige the orders of higher-ups, but it's a non-issue for everyone but the anarchists. There was not really ideological brainwash. Tons less than in school. And in the army you are adult enough to think for yourself already.
Jace Edwards
Some units pretty much just sit around all the time (field kitchen, battle support, etc), but for my company it was training every single day. I just felt that in order to make things 100% perfect we could have used a bit more time.
>that pic
I'm surprised how everyone in the Finnish army seems to wear wellies. We had those as well, but I only remember one guy preferring those over boots.
Isaac Mitchell
I want a finnish girl but will she stab me to death with mora in my sleep and steal my bitcoins ?
Josiah Mitchell
you cannot cash out bitcoins so no use stealing them
Chase Lee
Mohammed pls
Ayden King
>muh free though >t. limpwristed faggot Biggest meme ever. Just because you aren't actively brainwashed, doesn't mean you have free though. You consume more Hollywood and corporate propaganda daily than entire regiment in a month.
Adam Turner
Many countries in Europe had conscription until they stopped being an ethnostate (somewhere in the 1970s). Those European countries today still resembling one may still have conscription but expect it to go once you become multicultural
unless you are almost settled in live and fine with it (good tier: gf, house, job, "future") i'd say go for it user, finland should be quite a good land to spend a couple months Any idea when your 6 months (or more) would be? winter+spring sounds brutal weather-wise,
Jeremiah Carter
>Opportunity to rejoin the land of your ancestors and to protect it.
Sounds pretty gud
Aaron Miller
Sure, but for the money that was spent on you, they could had trained 10 guys that might have been slightly less skilled but together would have a bigger impact in times of total war.
America is so big and wealthy it's an exception for nations that I think should have conscription. It's not like America will ever face the need to have all the men at the gates. Or China. But all other nations do need all their men.
I do agree with that.
Lucas Robinson
Men who shy away from military service shouldn't be able to vote or reproduce. Your ancestors were warriors coward. Honor them and learn to fight for your people.
Benjamin Nguyen
Estonia is 30% Russian minortiy, yet conscription works just fine. It's actually great for integration. We had guys that could speak only Russian and after a few months they had all picked up the language and everyone got along great. Some of them even went on to become professionals.
Camden Kelly
Learning to fight and conduct war is not a waste of time. You can't learn that on youtube. Good men who are not degenerate are needed in the military. They raise the quality of it and when you get rank you literally can do something about your subordinates degeneracy.
Jayden Collins
>I'm surprised how everyone in the Finnish army seems to wear wellie 30% of Finland's land area is swamp. We do have regular boots though too. I guess it depends a lot on which type of ground you train on.
This desu. All ''propaganda'' in the army is anyways ''hey isn't it nice to be the backbone of the nation?'' -tier, nothing that should shake the mental balance of a healthy young male. If one's free mind can't stand military, they didn't have a free mind to begin with and they have long since been brainwashed to the core by school, media and hollywood. Those are legit powerful sources of propaganda.
Brayden Smith
That is what compulsory community service as an alternative to the military is for. Best done in some ambulance service ... enough blood, gore and human misery for a lifetime. Good for character development...
Mason King
there would be a mass exodus of those who have no intention of ever doing anything of value for society. The immigration to citizenship clause would need to be removed; where a "path to citizenship" is much more difficult than anchor babies, "turning life around", and "looking for a better life".
Austin Jenkins
For that kind of state, it's a good idea. Just make sure you also have a small core of professional soldiers too (especially for the most skilled jobs), who, if war breaks out, should be put to work training more professional soldiers immediately rather than being sent out and killed off immediately.
Carson Ross
I know plenty of Cletus retards like you who think they can fight because they can shoot targets at 25 yards in their backyard. This is not the same as actually practicing war fighting as a job. You learn a fucking lot and learn how to use a great variety of weapons effectively at great distances, not just pappys shotgun.
Christian James
>How are you going to survive the collapse if you can't even use a gun? Are you going to throw it away once it jams the first time and you don't know how to clean it? You do realize you don't need to LARP with teenagers for 6 months 24/7 to be able to do those things, right?
t. learned on my own (and at the range)
Daniel Morales
It was worth the money to train me. I had to be more of a Marine than the Marines to make them trust me. I can save your life and outshoot most of the rank and file.
Nicholas Sanders
Agreed. >Starship Troopers when? >Want to know more?
Nolan Myers
>The common myth that ''professional soldiers are better'' is not true. No, they're better individually, but that doesn't really matter. When war starts, it becomes a game of attrition. You need to focus on sustaining rather than winning the war with a prepared but irreplaceable elite force. Unless you're just invading one small country, you'll lose if you go in front heavy like that.
Carson Moore
Well, they can reproduce. You want to be a 'citizen' then you serve.
Levi Martinez
There are a lot of non-fighting roles in the military too.
I have huge distrust for all these DIY-soldiers that learned the same things on their backyards that I trained 12 hours a day for 6 months under professional training.
Sure you did bud. All the biggest gun-nuts seem to be those who are too cool for conscription. I wonder how could that be?
Parker Garcia
It would be fantastic if political worth would be tied to military service. It would create a society of real men, instead of what we have now, societies where leftist-intellectual cowards are rewarded. Can't remember which Greek philosopher it was, but he was right about that a philosopher has to be a warrior to be a brave thinker.
Yeah that's what I meant, a first world professional soldier is obviously individually more skilled than a conscript. Especially for a gorilla war tho it's better to have a million reservists than 20,000 professional soldiers.
Brandon Richardson
>I have huge distrust for all these DIY-soldiers that learned the same things on their backyards that I trained 12 hours a day for 6 months under professional training.
I generally agree (of course I am referring to Burgers here) but basically because modern life is so easy that most people need boot camp to make them disciplined and reactive. I'm a gun nut myself, and the range stuff is great, but most people have a hard time getting mentally ready for bullets going both ways without a drill instructor.
Jaxon Myers
I'm not so trusting of them either. Huge egos and ignorance abound in the gun community with these people. I went to join a militia a couple years ago and no shit almost all those Cletus retards came with unzeroed weapons. I'm talking like 20 people showed up and didn't know you had to adjust your sights on their ar15s in order to hit shit. They literally bought ar15s then shot at targets 10 feet away in their backyard and thought they could fight. That was my first time and last time I did that, those people will get you killed with their ignorance.
Gavin Reed
You just moved the goalposts in a major way. >can't use guns! lel >you're a gun-nut! wew lad Not sure what you're implying there. I'm a college-educated guy, an engineer at that. I understand the primary psychological functions of the training, and I don't need a 6-month LARPing course to get it. You do understand that level of repetition exists for the 90 IQ retards, right?
Grayson Kelly
Yes. First two years of labour service at 18. Then two years military training at 20. It helps unify the nation across classes and builds übermensch. It also reduces unemployment and make sure nobody is stuck in shitty jobs. Basically how Hitler reconstructed Germany.
Kevin Lee
>that learned the same things on their backyards that I trained 12 hours a day for 6 months under professional training Now I get it. This is bait. God bless you, user.
Daniel Moore
Im for it, our army is a joke tho. People join to take instagram pictures and all the girls are complete sluts. Plus we barely take in any youth every year, there are lots of men who want to join but cant because women take their place
Evan Bailey
Those are some good looking boots, name?
Elijah Martinez
Exactly. Owning a gun and knowing how to shoot it doesn't make one a soldier.
Looks like a struck a nerve, fag. Bragging on Sup Forums with being an engineer, you're a big boy! My original goalpost was that you don't learn WARFARE by yourself. Unless your concept of warfare involves only you. The repetition is there to guarantee that the skills won't fade away in 5 years and that execution will be smooth even under fatigue, insomnia and huge pressure. Are you 2smart2understand that, tard?